Monday Open Thread [11.14.11]
Earth | Time Lapse View from Space, Fly Over | NASA, ISS from Michael König on Vimeo.
The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll shows Romney leading the race with 32%, followed by Cain at 27%, Gingrich at 22%, Paul at 9%, Perry at 4%, Bachmann at 2%, Santorum at 2% and Hunstman at 1%.
“Debates are good, but we’re reaching overload.” — Political consultant Ed Rollins, in an interview with The Hill, noting that “there are going to be 20-plus debates in this primary process.”
Five reasons why Rick Perry will survive … for now.
The County by County breakdown in Ohio from last week, with blue counties voting for collective bargaining and red voting against.
Gingrich is now ahead, so the operative mythology is the story of the Great Pumpkin as told by Charles Schultz, a Methodist.
Popcorn alert! Gloria Allred is having another press conference at 2PM to showcase the ex-boyfriend of Ms. Bialik who will apparently say that he knows Cain and that Ms. Bialik did tell him of Cain’s alleged assault.
Michael Vick’s 2011 QB Rating: 79.8
Donovan McNubbies 2011 QB Rating: 82.9
More Penn State fallout – http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/sports/ncaafootball/jack-raykovitz-chief-of-second-mile-resigns-amid-penn-state-scandal.html?_r=1&hp
Safety net cuts were the old third rail. Now it’s tax increases:
Did anyone go to the Jeff/Jax dinner? Apparently Carper tried to out Jesus the DE Gop:
“Some of my friends on the other side, they talk a good game when they talk about their faith. I tell you, I think some of them read a different Bible than I do,” Carper said.
“Because the Bible that I read says in Matthew 25, if people are hungry, we have a responsibility to feed them. The Bible that I read says if people are thirsty, we have a responsibility to give them a drink. The Bible that I read says if people are naked, we have a responsibility to clothe them, and if folks are sick or in prison, we have a responsibility to visit them.
“The highest priorities are orphans and widows. That’s where we ought to be putting our time and our energy and our treasure. Somehow my grandfather’s party has gotten away from those values.”
As recorded by the Delawaregrapevine blog.
I’m loving that Ohio map. The Lesson: Democrats win when they act like Democrats
Jason – a bunch of us were there, but I don’t think any of us were paying attention to Carper.
Some of us were paying attention. For instance, I noticed in the stemwider about Republicans that Chris Coons got into, he couldn’t bring himself to mention protecting Social Security and Medicare until close to the end of his speech and then in passing. I don’t remember any of the others mentioning it. John Carney actually talked about creating jobs first in his litany of hard stuff that needs to be done, with budget control at about #3. Carper was all over the place, but he didn’t use his time to make a commitment to not gutting Social Security or Medicare, either.
That’s a dreary rundown. So much political power in one room and so little willingness to use it for something meaningful.
“Creating jobs” now means anything you want it to mean.
“Revenue” used to be a Democratic euphemism for tax increases. Now it means increasing revenue while cutting taxes, powered by the Loophole Unicorn. So when our Democrats say revenue is on the table, they are NOT talking about raising taxes on anyone.
And then there’s “broadening the base…”
Uh oh, Cain stepped in it today: http://transparentchristina.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/wow-not-good-chanellingperry/
Perryesque!
I think that the theme of the speeches was meant to fire up the crowd to get working for 2012. Lots of notice for unions, not so much for Social Security and Medicare. UI and I actually talked about that some, so maybe she’ll chime in. But I wonder if that is a signal that these guys are going to let “everything on the table, except for the GOP” run the day.
ALSO — Carper talked about how hard it is in DC to get anything done and he went on at some length about President Obama trying to compromise with Republicans and how that didn’t work. Carper said that it was time the President got the fact that the Republicans wouldn’t compromise and thought it took him too long to get to that realization. This from a guy who has one of the more conservative voting records in the Democratic Caucus.
The latest Gloria Allred press conference is done and the ex-boyfriend confirms that Bialik told him about the alleged assault.
You should click on John Young’s link right now and look at that video. Herman Cain trying to perfect the Sarah Palin schtick.
That video should be shown in a How not to be slick or How not to pretend you know what you’re talking about class.
Vote for Time Magazine’s Person of the Year — the 99% is a good choice.
A truly righteous rant from Hunter at Daily Kos. It keeps getting better toward the end.
and
Did you folks really close the comments in the “Funny, He Doesn’t Look Jewish” thread?
Probably a good idea to close it. One can only stare at a horse trotting away for so long:)
If you didn’t watch the ABC special on Gabrielle Giffords, I highly recommend you catch a rerun. Amazing & inspirational
yes – I did actually listen to Carper’s speech
but my question is this – does that mean Carper and Carney will be joining their collegues here, for this event?:
http://blog.al.com/sweethome/2011/11/ten_members_of_congress_plan_i.html
because it IS all about Matthew 25
Good morning. Should be a decent day today.
Sandusky denies all charges, and says that at least one boy will testify the molestation never happened.
I think a lot of us already burned Sandusky at the stake, forgetting that he is innocent until found guilty and still gets his day in court. Remember the Duke lacrosse rape case.
The case against Sandusky is built on eyewitness testimony, which can be unreliable. So far we don’t have a confession, and (I think) we don’t have any victim testimony or physical evidence.
Yeah, the janitor DIDN’T see the SANDMAN with a little boys’ penis in his mouth and the coach DIDN’T see the SANDMAN’S DICK up another little boys ass! We shouldn’t believe their lying eyes.Just two charges.
Give me a break.
Stick a fork in him.
Thank you, Nancy Grace.
You’re welcome, Alan Douchewitz!
Puck, go read the indictment.
Go tell me it has physical evidence or victim testimony.
No, I didn’t read it. I gather from the news it is all eyewitness.
This case is going to end up one of three ways: like OJ, like Duke lacrosse, or clearly guilty.
Fourth way – found guilty but not really sure.
Here you go, puck – http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
So you didn’t read it either. Otherwise you would know the answer to my questions.
OK, I didn’t really have time to read it, but I did. It is emotionally effective for its intended audience (us). It is written in the third person though, in a steamy novelistic style rather than a literal legal style, so it is never clear what exactly the victim said – is the narrator speaking, or is it the victim? Can’t tell. I guess the lawyers will have to figure it out in court.
Puck, actually I did read it, last week (see the thread on the scandal from last week). And usually grand jury reports are written like this, at least the several score I have read over the past 30 years.
Nov 15, 2011 posted by: Kelli Steele – WGMD News
BREAKING: Bodenweiser Voted Out as 37th District Chairman
St. Bodie Girl is going to fall out of those high heels.
http://www.wgmd.com/?p=40206
Oh good Lord. Senators Coons & Rubio to Unveil Bipartisan Jobs Bill Today
OH GOOD LORD!
And then the murderer of the public option spoke:
It’s a bunch of tax credits — bet *they’re* not paid for — that won’t do much to genuinely tackle the extent of the problem. But it is the kind of thing that let’s them tout their bipartisanship and make some of their business constituents happy while not accomplishing all that much. Especially if these credits aren’t paid for. Hoping that any of the local media reading this Ask.This.Question.
I think that Democrats aren’t being irrational in being worried about the Supreme Court. This court has been extremely activist in the service of conservative causes, starting with putting their collective thumbs on the scale to hand the 2000 election to BushCo.
There is nothing liberal or progressive about the individual mandate.
I would LOVE to see the individual mandate clipped neatly out of the law, with everything else intact. It would throw the insurance industry into a tizzy. Of course, my fantasy depends on Obama vetoing the emergency fix Congress would pass to soothe the insurance industry.
The mandate has good reasons to exist, which is why the Swiss and the Germans do it. Everyone needs to be in the pool at least as a cost control measure. Removing the individual mandate effectively guts the program, vastly increases its costs and makes sure that there is still a big pool of people without insurance.
And yeah, spare me the single-payer fantasy. Because making sure that lots of people don’t have access to insurance until you get your fantasy is so worth it, right?
It is a conundrum. Kinda makes you wish we’d done it right the first time, doesn’t it? We always thought we’d “fix it later,” but nobody foresaw we’d make it worse later.
“Because making sure that lots of people don’t have access to insurance until you get your fantasy is so worth it, right?”
Having access to health care is far more important than access to insurance. An insurer can still refuse to pay for your health care. Your argument therefore makes no sense.
Single-payer is not a fantasy, by the way. It exists in most countries, and within a few years will exist in at least a handful of states.
“Removing the individual mandate effectively guts the program, vastly increases its costs and makes sure that there is still a big pool of people without insurance.”
But you’d still have the exchanges, and the loss-ratio requirements. Not much, but it’s something.
Sheldon Whitehouse:
Except that without the mandate, the cost for everyone who has insurance will rise that much more. For anyone who already has insurance, it would be worse than nothing, and will therefore set those with insurance through the workplace against the law.
So, all things considered, I favor repeal.
Both Germany and Switzerland offer not-for-profit insurance plans with their mandates. Both countries control healthcare costs. The Obama mandate guarantees a profit for the insurance companies and does little to control skyrocketing costs. Furthermore, after forcing families to pay approximately 1 month’s before-tax income to the insurance companies or be fined, there is no promise that they will actually be able to afford healthcare services and pay high deductibles that come with the cheapest strpped-down plans.
The insurance mandate is just another way to siphon money from the 99% to the 1% and continue to push more families into poverty.
I don’t object to single-payer, except that it is further way than getting insurance for everybody.
And Whitehouse is wrong. If the mandate goes away, the industry works overtime to get rid of the rest. It won’t stand once they turn loose all of their lobbying strength to get rid of it.
The costs of medical care rise alot every year, which would be a factor in why insurance costs go up. And having people paying part of the overhead of a system that is treating people who need it for no cost is another reason. The only claim for cost control for the ACA is that is slows the rate of cost increase.
So, all things considered, I favor repeal.
Easily said for someone with insurance.
Favoring the mandate is easily said by someone who can afford to pay it.
As I think back, I think team Obama was stung by the “socialism” criticism. That’s why stratospheric Insurance Co profits are guaranteed. (Notice how it headed off the socialism charge? Ha!)
Either that or team Obama went into the debate thinking that stratospheric Insurance Co profits needed protecting.
And, as usual, A1 shows off his Stupid As All Get Out badge.
Too bad you’ll never wear *that* out.
edit: and Jason 330 shows up to show his off too.
I’ll leave you boys to compare whatever it is you think you are comparing.
“If the mandate goes away, the industry works overtime to get rid of the rest. It won’t stand once they turn loose all of their lobbying strength to get rid of it.”
You are probably right. Which means if the mandate is that valuable to the insurance companies, it was a bad deal for the 99% in the first place. I guess we’ll have to think of something else.
The point isn’t that I can afford to pay for insurance. I can only do that because my employer offers it. The point: Lots of people already have employer-paid insurance that they pay into. What kind of fools would they be to favor enriching insurance companies at their own expense, when the easier, cheaper and more fair way would be to cut the insurance companies out of the deal altogether?
Only someone without insurance would think that America’s health care problems will be cured by giving everyone insurance. Perhaps you were overly influenced by “Sicko,” in which Michael Moore focuses on people without insurance. But his most compelling story at the start of the film — the guy who cut off two fingers with a power saw but could only have one reattached — had insurance.
As long as companies profit from denying treatment to people, they will find all legal ways to do so. I prefer a system that removes all temptation by removing the tempted. I don’t believe a rational argument exists to prefer Obamacare, mandate or not.
Once again, cassandra_m makes a personal attack when she knows the facts are against her.
Are you going to close the comments to this thread now?
Don’t effing tell me about employer insurance. My employer let me know if I didn’t waive my insurance, I likely wouldn’t be working there. But I am still eligible to sign up any time I want – just try it and see what happens!
Fortunately my spouse has better insurance anyway. But we have to pay an additional amount each month on her plan – because I am eligible for another plan that I waived.
So yeah, I’m a little incensed about any plan that puts employers and insurance companies in the center of it. Fuck them all, and the politicians they rode in on.
Pony!
Wahhhhhhh. Wahhhhhhh. Wahhhhhh. Someone send the wahmbulance to A-None’s house, he bellyaching again.
Quite a compelling argument you have there.
@Cass: “I don’t object to single-payer, except that it is further way than getting insurance for everybody.”
I don’t think you understand single payer if that’s what you think. It can be all-inclusive. It’s Romneycare that by design leaves people out, and Obamacare will do the same.
Without a mandate but with the other changes — no pre-existing condition loopholes, portability — insurance companies will see their costs increase substantially. Perhaps you fail to understand this because of insurance envy, but insurance companies offer their policies at these relative “bargain” rates because they reject lots of claims. Once they can’t reject them anymore, those costs will have to be built into rates.
Yes, the only way the PPACA could impose the new requirements on the insurance companies (i.e. no preexisting denials, no yearly or lifetime caps, cover children until 26) without yearly premiums increasing 2,000% each year was to impose the mandate, thereby increasing the pool of insureds. Without the mandate, the PPACA is a crap bill. Yeah, we love the new requirements, but the new premiums we have to pay bankrupts us.
Remember, health insurance reform is about two things: 1) getting as many people covered as possible (aiming for universal); and 2) controlling and reducing costs (whether they be costs borne by hospitals or the insurance premiums we pay).
Therefore, it is either mandate or complate and total single payer. The only two options.
It isn’t as if other countries haven’t figured this out.
Unfortunately, in this country, health insurance reform was NOT about getting affordable health care for everybody. It was about making sure that health insurance companies remain wildly profitable and crossing health care reform off the list of to-do’s.
I don’t think you understand single payer if that’s what you think. It can be all-inclusive. It’s Romneycare that by design leaves people out, and Obamacare will do the same.
This is a little rich coming from the unicorn brigade. I do know what single payer is — and I do know that is not on offer except possibly in a few small states. And there is certainly no one here working for single payer here with the same energy that they bring to bitching about Obamacare on line. Sheesh.
Neither Obamacare or Romneycare claim to cover everybody. But they come a heck of alot closer to covering alot more people than what is currently on offer.
So when you boys get it together to start lobbying the GA or anybody else for single payer, holla at your girl, because I’ll join you. But in the meantime, all it looks like to me is that you will be pretty delighted the day that people who could have had some insurance get denied that possibility.
Kevin Drum ponders what happens if the mandate goes away.
Cassandra was the one who brought up single payer. Myself, I am just looking forward to the prospect of throwing the health-care chess board up in the air. We Democrats screwed up in 2010, both in terms of health care policy and in electoral politics. It would be good to take another shot at it in an election year, let the chips fall where they may.