UPDATED III: 43% of Delaware Super Delegates Pledged To Clinton
Update:
The petition is mothballed.
I just moved Carper to the unpledged side. I put him with Clinton in haste based on his DLC connections and not finding him on either list. Well, I wasn’t looking hard enough because there he is on the unpledged list. My bad.
Here are your Delaware Super Delegates:
Pledged to Senator Clinton:
Gov. Ruth Ann Minner (DE)
DNC Rhett Ruggerio (DE)
DNC Karen Valentine (DE)
Currently Unpledged:
John Daniello – DE Chair
Harriet Smith-Windsor – DE Vice Chair
If Carper decided to switch the super delegates would reflect the popular vote.
I’m just sayin’
I guess the commiteed Super Delegates will just forget about the voice of the people and vote like the machines they are.
The unpledged are our only hope.
What about an e-mail campaign to the committed super-duper delegates?
Does anyone know this Rhett Ruggerio ? Or Karen Valentine? I know Valentine was an actress who appeared on the TV show “Room 222” but that is about it.
Carper and Minner are lost causes.
I’m pretty sure Karen is an officer w/AFSCME and/or the AFL/CIO. Rhett used to work for the Mayor’s office. I have no idea how they became super-delegates (are they the national committeepersons?), and I think the superdelegates should to some degree reflect the wishes of the people who voted.
Went to the Deldems site & answered my own question. Valentine and Ruggiero are indeed Delaware’s nat’l committeepersons.
@SS
That sort of initiative will not be tolerated. 🙂
I’ll try to revert to my normal slothfulness next time…
Jason, thanks for setting that up. Done and signed.
Pass the word around.
The entire superdelagate thing is a scam safeguards party officials put in place to keep real democracy in check.
Thanks for signing Dana.
Jason, I know Rhett well. Just spoke with him last week. He was Mayor Bakers spokesman and left to form his own lobbying firm.
Super! Tell him to honor the results.
A Mayor Baker spokesman? Just slip him a $20.
Same old undemocratic party. Say, any idea whether superdelegate Teddy Kennedy intends to honor the will of Massachusetts voters and pledge for Hillary, or declare for your fave rave Obama, whom he endorsed? Just sayin’ is all.
Are you certain that Senator Carper endorsed Hillary? When I click the link I get the Gov. Minner endorsement. And I was told this morning by somebody who should know that Carper is neutral.
Karen Valentine, our National Committeewoman endorsed because she is an officer in AFSCME and that union endorsed Hillary.
I have no idea why Rhett Ruggerio, our National Committeeman, endorsed Hillary unless he thought it would be good for his lobbying business.
The Governor is the Governor. It was probably some sort of solidarity with women thing for her.
I’m not sure that any of them are committed to vote for Hillary when they go to Denver. Their status is “unpledged” so they can change their minds.
Thanks for posting this. I signed it right away!
And just to show how fair I am… I do think Ted Kennedy should vote with his state. I’m a die-hard Obama supporter, but these super delegates should vote with their states. Just like I believe Florida and Michigan shouldn’t count. I didn’t set the rules. The Democratic Party did and all the candidates signed on. If Hillary had a problem with this she should have spoken up at the time and not signed on the dotted line. To try and make these states count now reeks of Karl Rove.
Honestly, if she pulls and wins the nomination with this crap I might not vote at all.
Rebecca –
This wikipedia page has only RAM in the Clinton column.\
Short answer Re Carper: No I’m not positive.
It is important to note that unpledged does not mean they are going for Obama. I think some lobbying is still in order.
Lobbying is always a good thing. These people don’t hear enough from us. But they sure hear plenty from the bad guys.
I heard on DKos that the Obama campaign doesn’t want us to letter-flood the superdelegates because they have their own plan for winning them.
or maybe it was ThinkProgress, I forget
I saw the same thing on dKos — an email from one of the on-line coordinators, I think. Definitely asking folks to stand down on heavy duty lobbying of the superdelegates.
So perhaps we should just send money to Obama instead 🙂
And remember, a primary endorsement does not automatically translate into a vote at the convention. It’s a long time until August and a whole lot will change between now and then.
The petition is mothballed until further notice.
I like cassandra’s idea.
4 readers so far averaging $70.00 per.
Aye yiyi Room 222~ I loved that show~!
At least the Zell Miller rule is in effect and McCains love buddy Lieberman has had superdelegate status stripped from him because he is backing McCain.
I’m glad someone remembers that show besides me.
Tom Carper rules! This super delegate crap is just that…who elected these yahoo’s to vote for us. Its bad enough the democratic and republican parties fixed the State so independents can’t vote….now they want to forget the people who did vote. I understand the republicans will vote for the candidate who won Delaware….seems the republicans are a lot more democratic than the democrats. And what campaign did the Minners, Petersons, or any of those supporting Clinton raise! a few robo calls that’s it.
Like a black friend said last night…Obama won Delaware, if these “super delegates” do not back up the voters in Delaware…time to march on Dover! It will be an outrage, and the Party will give the republicans so much dragon food to slay them in the general….this is precisely why I got out of the demorat party….now I am in IPOD and can’t vote…taxation without representation, pure and simple.
donna brazile who worked on Al Gore’s campaign, stated on CNN last week, that if the “democrats use super delegates to go against the will of the people”, she will resign from the Democratic Party…now thats my girl!
Wow. That is good to hear. IN FACT, that is great to hear from Brazile who is a straight up party hack.
This Super delegate things is not fair. the voters of Delaware have spoken, but as usual, the Good ole’ boy network
status quo, takes away the voice of the people again.
Then they wonder why people don’t vote in elections.
Now you know why, because their vote doesn’t count as long
as Minner and her gang of flunkies stay large and in charge.
Liz what gives you the right if you are not a member of either party to vote in their primary
no more than I as a registered democrat should vote in the Republican Primary or the other way around if you wanted to vote in one of the primaries then you should have changed your party registration you had plenty of time
If Sen Carper, whom I know to be a good person, and a good senator ever seeks another vote from me in the future, he will honor the majority of the state which he represents. If someone gets LESS pledged delegates, LESS states, and LESS votes, but still gets the nomination, I doubt I will ever be able to bring myself to vote for another Democrat. I have never voted for any other party. This super delegate non-sence is un democratic, it is un american, and it has the potential to doom this country to AT LEAST 4 more years of backwards thinking politicians who are out of touch with the voters and out of touch with real americans. Gov Minner is a lame duck who only has honor binding her… we’ll see how much she has, but to anyone who wants to get re-elected, I urge them to do the right thing
Great comment Pricey.
Welcome to the sandbox.
I’m incensed that we have super delegates pledged to Hillary and none so far pledged to Barack, when the Will of the People went to Barack.
Where do I sign a petition, how do I make my voice heard, and can we please make Minner understand that this will not be tolerated. I’d switch to republican before I put up with this again, just to teach a lesson. There is only strength in numbers. We need to get together on this.
too bad we can’t not vote for Minner. While i like senators Biden and Carper I urge people to pressure them to vote the way their state did by pledging not to vote for them unless they support Obama. This is one vote they will not get if they betray Delaware voters
watching the DNC meeting today, I would just like to congratulate Hillary Clinton on dividing the party and dooming America to President McCain. Great job Clintons!!!!!
So I guess you guys think that Hillary should get all the SD votes for the states she won. For instance, Kennedy and Kerry should vote for her. Just making sure I understand.
A. Price – Spin it all you want. Clinton did not divide the party. If anyone divided the party, it was Obama for running a race-baiting campaign and for blocking revotes in MI & FL. You can throw the DNC in as well for punishing MI & FL for moving up their primaries but allowing IA, SC & NH to do it with impunity.
This election is a complete sham. Obama will win, but it will in no way be pure. It’s an old-school Chicago win. Kudos to the candidate who represents Hope and Change.
Who invoked jesse jackson after the south carolina campaign? who’s campaign has brought up sexism and reverse racism? who hinted that Obama might be assassinated?
Yes, the supers should vote the way their state’s voted, that means Gov. Ruth as well. if that happens, Obama is still in the lead.
If she takes it to the convention, all we have to remember is what happened in 1980. Hillary Clinton herself has not done much to divide the party, but people like Geraldine Ferraro are making irresponsible comments that will insure people are so bitter, yes bitter, that we (democrats) will surely lose in November.
Who distributed a 4-page memo on how to play the race card?
Who took the RFK comments and distributed them to the press with the very accusation you make?
Who distributed KO’s visceral Special Comments to the press in case they had missed them?
Democrats will lose in November, but it won’t be because of Clinton. It will be because of the disgusting campaign that Obama – the ‘different kind of politician’ – chose to run.
So, answer the question, guys. Do you think that all SDs should vote the way their state voted or does that only apply if it favors Obama?
You are working awfully hard to convince folks (and yourself, I’d bet) that Obama did something horribly wrong here. The only people playing the race card have been the Clintons — the Hispanics that won’t vote for the black guy; the hard-working white people who won’t vote for the black guy; the black guy who is a fairy tale; the African Americans who are voting for the black guy because that’s what they do. All of that came from the Clintons — not Obama — because identity politics is all they’ve got and identity politics is no way to govern. You are just mad that somebody had the temerity to call the Clintons on it — which, frankly, was the entirety of that memo. An inventory of the crap Clinton and their surrogates had pulled already, not one bit of it made up. The memo is all over the internet — google it and read it. Not one item on that memo is false — not one. Be mad because the Clintons fucked up, but pretending that there is something actually wrong with the people who called them out on it is way past any kind of sensibility.
Trust me, I really don’t need to ‘work hard’ to convince myself of anything. I know what I believe and it’s based in fact. Just the fact that you’re carting out the lame talking point misrepresentations (fairy tale, really? pathetic.) is proof of what I’ve been stating for months.
You believe what you want; I will believe what I want. Obama may win this, but the meme that he did it ‘fair and square’ is a joke. He is a politician no different than the rest. He will stoop to any level to win and he has proven it, brilliantly, I might add.
BTW, it’s really disheartening to hear anyone defend that memo in any way. That behavior – taking comments out of context and painting people who have spent their careers fighting for civil rights as racists – is reprehensible. Even Obama thought it was inappropriate (right).
you also still need to answer for Ferraro’s comments about sexism. not once has Obama called his campaign a victory for Blacks, but Hillary has certainly called her’s a victory for women. The Clinton’s change the rules to win. Make no mistake, I supported Bill during his impeachment trial, but he still debated the meaning of “is” to pull it off. It is how they play the game, and the dirtier they get, the better they do. Is that really what we want?
Every time someone supporting Obama’s camp has gotten nasty, he has distanced himself from them, rebuked the remarks and apologized. i.e Rev. Wright, Samantha Power, even most recently his own church. Even John McCain has rebuked these kind of dirty remarks Only Hillary Clinton has allowed people like Ferraro to continue making divisive comments and not said boo about it because she knows the only way to beat Obama is to discredit him and make people scared of him.
Shame on Hillary. And just to be perfectly clear, I would love to someday vote for a woman to be president. I was not only ready to vote for, but to volunteer for Hillary, than a new politician came along. someone who actually seemed like they didn’t come with filth and dirt that we have come to accept in our leaders. If Hillary takes this to the convention, you can bet McCain will win, than you will see Hillary to the rescue in 2012. Her ambitions and lust for power will doom America.
Obama thought the memo was inappropriate — he did not say that anything was misrepresented there. And if you are playing the race card, you get called on the race card. The Clintons were playing to win to, but I guess I was not supposed to notice that.
Can you site anything, not including accusations by the Hillary camp where Obama has played this “race card’? other than his being a Black man, what has he done to raise the issue. His speech in Philadelphia was a forced one that he had to make in order to let everyone know he did not agree with Rev Wright. When has he said “black people will vote for me” or “if i don’t win, it is because people are racist” ? this is Clinton’s only argument … that white people and women wont vote for Obama… talk about divisive…
A Super Delegate is just that. He is to cast his support for the candidate that will be able to win the election. Let’s face it, We need to pick the best candidate in August to win. Go all the way Hillary!!!!!!!! To think I have to finally hear that Obama resigned from his Church today. Big Deal. What I witnessed on TV was very offensive to me as a Human Being.
What exactly did you witness?
I witness a man pretending to be Hillary Clinton who was in her mind to mock her and to deminish her. In hopes to get her to withdraw from the race. I say Hillary go on.
A. Price – Really? Let’s start with manipulating the words of the following people in an effort to paint them as racist for essentially stating an opinion other than ‘i heart obama’:
HRC
WJC
Andrew Cuomo
Ed Rendell
Geraldine Ferraro
FTR, WJC’s comment about Jesse Jackson, while ridiculously poorly delivered (considering he was not asked a question about JJ), was nonetheless true. To imply that it is not unusual for a black man to win in SC is not racist. It is fact. I have heard people mention this incident as horrible because he ‘invoked’ Jesse Jackson. Frankly, while Obama is clearly on a different level than Jackson as a candidate, the implication that the comparison is offensive is, well, kind of offensive to Jackson. He may be a bit of a charicature, but he is one of the heroes of the civil rights movement.
It got to the point where HRC supporters could barely speak without being accused of ‘speaking in code’.
Then let’s move on to their manipulation of the Obamalove media:
His campaign distributed HRC’s recent RFK comment to the media and started the whole ‘she’s hoping for an assassination’ campaign.
His campaign distributed KO’s vicious Special Comments about the RFK comment just in case any of them missed it.
Those are just a couple of instances where they’ve done it. There are plenty more (see above memo, for instance)
Each of those actions resulted in days worth of negative coverage of HRC. It was clearly yet another attempt to try to shame her out of the race. The meme I’ve heard over and over from Obama surrogates and media empty heads is ‘well, she’s essentially thrown away her shot at VP’. The choreography between Team Obama and the MSM, specifically MSNBC, has been worthy of Dancing With the Stars. I’ll hand it to David Axelrove, though, he orchestrated a brilliant, albeit evil, campaign. The most stunning part is that he did it and managed to convince the flock to practically chant the ‘she’ll do anything to win’ meme. Genius.
Hey, a. price. First of all do you live under a rock? If not, I could site you every primary where spokespeople for the Obama campaign have stated, and I quote,”That Hillary Clinton supporters are uneducated, latino, underemployed, female, aged, gay, etc. etc..ladida. Now for you to pretend that you haven’t heard this is highly disingenuous and downright criminal. Next point, for you to state that if the will of the people of Delaware is not reflected in the appropriation of super delegates to Obama and that it is time to march on Dover is also not only ludicrous, but offensive to the voters in Nuevo Mejico who supported Clinton and were told to screw themselves by Bill Richardson with help from Obama. So before you go and toot your horn with respect to fair reflection a term aptly coined today by the distinguished Harold Ickes, think about the latinos in this country whose votes are higher in total than the black vote and who had no representation on that panel of the rules and bylaws committee of the DNC. Put that in your hat and smoke it!!
a. price you lie again. Ferraro no longer fundraises for Clinton, thanks to the Obama campaign and the media who is licking the thirty pieces of silver he threw at them to rip her apart. Second, Obama is the biggest liar ever. The Obama camp leaked the interview and commentary from the Argus leader.com and accused Clinton of implying an assassination toward Obama. Everyone who has seen and dissected that transcript and video has acertained, including Robert Kennedy Jr. and Randall Kent, the editor from the Argusleader who by the way endorsed Senator Clinton, that she did nothing wrong and said nothing offensive toward either Obama or the memory of Bobby Kennedy. Then Obama releases a statement saying sometimes in the course of the campaign we tend to get careless. Who is he to speak on behalf of Clinton? Who is he to start a race riot against Clinton? Who is Keith Olberman to state that Clinton is trying to kill Obama? Who are father Fleger and Rev. Wright to mock and rididcule Hillary Clinton after being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in money earmarked for the people of the state of Illinois, as if they know her, which they do not, and try to diminish the power of her candidacy and that of her voters? Have you ever seen Hillary mock Catholics, blacks, muslims etc..from the pulpit? NO YOU HAVE NOT!! WHO IS ANYONE TO CAST A STONE AT HER? There is a bigger problem here at stake one which you do not seem to comprehend nor do you seem inclined to. This problem stems from the divisive nature of the people Obama associates with which is reflective of the kind of person he may be. There is an expression in Spanish which says,” Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres.” Tell me who you hang out with, and I will tell you who you are. I was raised with this belief and this very belief has kept me out of trouble my entire life. Too bad for Obama that no one instilled this sense of caution with respect to the company he has kept and is currently keeping.
OMG, Melissa, welcome to the site! Where have you been? Your comments are a breath of fresh air! Thank you so much!!
Hi, Dominque, thank you for the welcome. I have been spending my free time volunteering as a surrogate for Senator Clinton and working at the phone banks in NYC. I came on this site because I lived in Delaware for many years and I like to get a pulse of what the people in Delaware are feeling. No matter what the outcome of today’s committee meeting, I am proud of Harold Ickes efforts to have the full seating of the Michigan delegates, although thwarted by the DNC. We all knew on some level this would happen. However, to arbitrarily hand over 4 of Senator Clinton’s votes to Obama based on exit data and polls is heinous and does destroy democracy. If one is to assume that we should now believe polls and exit data, I can do one better. Lets strip Obama of this nomination now because I can site you polls where week after week voters choose Hillary as the stronger candidate against McCain and I can site where polls indicate that the voters want Hillary Clinton as president week after week(AOL-political machine). I say let’s do it. We have the evidence. The majority of democrats have spoken and they choose Hillary. BTW, I agree with you which is why I do not watch MSNBC. Would you believe that many of us now watch FOX to get the actual truth about what is happening within the Democratic Pary? MSNBC is a news organization owned by GE and run by Jeffry Immelt who it is alleged has been selling GE parts to the Iranians at the expense of our men and women in uniform in Iraq. Currently, one major justification for remaining in Iraq is the Iranian threat to this country’s hope for democracy. However, with slime like Immelt who supplies them, we may never get out. This is why so many voters secretly feel that the GOP is somehow backing Obama and behind the thwarting of Clinton’s campaign. Whether this is true or not, only time will tell. However, my recommendation to all is to boycott NBC, MSNBC and all GE related products.
However, my recommendation to all is to boycott NBC, MSNBC and all GE related products.
Except 30 Rock, right? Cause that show is funny.
However, my recommendation to all is to boycott NBC, MSNBC and all GE related products.
I’m in (with the exception of 30 Rock) if you promise to stop your inane yammering about how Hillary should be the nominee when everyone knows that she lost fair and square.
The votes she got for FL and MIch should have been ZERO. So, what would it take to satisfy you?
Throw out the rules and just appoint her President? Very Democratic.
‘when everyone knows that she lost fair and square.’
gee, that’s about the 80th time i’ve heard an obama supporter use that phrase. fair and square. must be the new talking point from camp obama. it sounds like something kids say in the playground – I beat you fair and square! Now give me my trophy or I’m gonna tell on you!
she may lose, but it wasn’t ‘fair and square’ by any stretch of the imagination. you don’t know the first thing about democracy if you’re fine with what happened yesterday. take off your obamalove hat for five minutes and think like a real citizen, if you can even remember how to do that. they should have distributed no delegates to either of them in mi. instead they come up with some cockamamie calculation based on EXIT POLLS and WRITE-IN VOTES that should have been disqualified because he wasn’t registered to accept them. go back and read that again slowly so it sinks in, zombie. how do you justify stripping a candidate of 4 delegates and handing them over to the a candidate who wasn’t even on the ballot? how? sit there and tell me that you would honestly sit back quietly if that happened to obama. do it, jason. prove to me and everyone else that you have completely taken leave of your senses.
your stupid candidate voluntarily took his name off the ballot to PANDER to IA & NH and because he knew he stood no chance to win there (he has a tendency to shy away from anything too difficult…GREAT quality in a president). you’re ok with that, i suppose. hypocrite. evidently, he was smart to do it. shit, hillary should have taken her name off of SC & NC since she didn’t have a chance to win in those states.
i might actually respect your opinion and consider your point of view (this goes for all of you crazy-assed obama-can-do-no-wrong morons), if you could just stand up once and say, yeah, that wasn’t cool when something patently unfair and undemocratic goes down.
your candidate will likely win the nomination. not sure if he’ll win the general election, but even if he manages to do it, we’re screwed. he’s jimmy carter 2.0. like our country isn’t in bad enough shape.
I NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON HILLARY. IT AIN’T OVER TILL THE LADY IN THE PANTSUIT SAYS IT IS OVER. I KNOW THAT THE SUPER DELEGATES AND THE REMAINING STATES WILL DO WHAT IS RIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT HILLARY HAS A GOOD SHOWING FOR AUGUST. SHE IS THE STRONGER CANDIDATE. SHE WILL BE A GREAT PRESIDENT. VIVA HILLARY.
Wow. A Hillary sock puppet. That’s what it has come to.
“The lady in the pantsuit?”
Wow! Just imagine the venom thrown at Obama supporters if we used such a phrase.
so is it really worth boycotting Obama to let George Bush the Third into the White house? keep in mind, i havent said anything negative about your heroine, (female hero NOT drug). she is a bit divisive, so is EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN who has ever lived, including the candidate I support. her campaign, and those who support her have done some pretty shifty things. if she is given the nomination by the supers, despite losing total states, and delegates, and the popular vote (you HAVE to count iowa, maine and washington) I will still vote for her. can you say the same if another historic candidate wins? I also kind of resent the personal attacks. call me a criminal because I disagree with you politically? Ease off the vitriol and remember the goal is to beat John McCsame ….. and for your information melssia, I don’t wear a hat, I look awful in hats and even if i did, why on earth would i want to smoke a hat? that seems like it would be terribly uncomfortable.
WHOEVER THE DEMOCRAT IS 08!!!!
and have you seem OBAMA mock her? both camps are throwing a sickeningly Republican-esqu amount of mud at each other I can admit that they are both great candidates. I think it will be a duel ticket. at this point there is no way one can with without the other. What a wonderful thing it will be for a white woman and a bi-racial man, or vice versa to beat old white male Republicans go America
Yes, A. Price, he mocked her with his ‘little Annie Oakley’ rant. But that’s not why I will vote for McCain. I will vote for McCain because I believe he has the strength, fortitude and experience to be the leader of the free world. And because I give as much of a shit about the Democratic Party as they do about me.
BTW, I’m so sick of everyone saying how wonderful it is that this election includes a white woman and a black man. It’s a fucking disgrace that it’s taken this long. Our party should hang its head in shame, not congratulate itself.
I don’t think he’d ever have her on his ticket due to his insecurities. It has already been mentioned and asked of him and he has declined. He old buddies back in Washington that own him want have it. The Hispanic Vote delivered this White female candidate on her merit and her experience. she is a class act all the way. She has represented all people throughout this country for so long. She is the true RainBow Coalition. She has done so the best she could for all, especially the frailest and youngest people in our country. If given a chance, I feel that she can do so much more. I pray for her to succeed. I pray for the Super Delegates to get the courage to do what is right and for all constituents to allow her to get the nomination. Foolish and naive, I know, but I do believe in a higher power. I haven’t given up on her yet. God Bless her and her Campaign workers who believe in her cause. Tonight I contributed to her campaign.
Come on, Dom. There was plenty of mocking on both sides. Seriously, when did Obama become the big tough guy? I thought HRC and her supporters’ claim has been that he isn’t tough enough to take on McCain, that he has a glass jaw, that he can’t take a punch.
Which is it? I’m confused.
so much anger how come i can say i would also vote for HIllary if i had to. do you like Bush? is that why you are voting for McCain? a guy who does not know this difference between Muslim sects? or someone who doesn’t even know who many troops are in Iraq. You go ahead and be as mad as you want at Obama for whatever reason you deem worthy, but please don’t react by voting for Bush the third c’mon people.
Please mark the time.
But that’s not why I will vote for McCain. I will vote for McCain because I believe he has the strength, fortitude and experience to be the leader of the free world.
Dom is braindead.
Pandora, Obama became a thug when he told a crowe of voters that Clinton was in her element and he raised his middle finger quite deliberately to imply the F word at her. Then, he proceeded to brush her off his shoulders as if she were filth. To me, he is the filthy one.
The finger…? Such crap. It makes me laugh.
Listen up…Dom, Melissa, TT,
I feel for you guys. I honestly do. I’d be just as whacked out and shrill if Obama lost. I swear I would. I’d be saying that I was going to vote for McCain…the works…
Anyhoo…Your job now is to take a deep breath and get over it.
Jason, Clinton never lost this fair and square. People like myself do not agree with organizations like MOVE ON. ORG controlling caucuses among liberals and then using the Huffington Post as a means of getting the word out with regard to swiftboating candidates before the caucuses. Also, I believe that Puerto Rico’s primary has clearly demonstrated to many, including CASSANDRA, that Obama clearly does not have the support of the Hispanic community who are religious, mostly Catholic, against late term abortions etc.., He can’t get those votes without Clinton. She voted for the ban on late term abortions and the Catholics and Hispanics know this and in some measure showed her their respect in both Pennsylvania and PR for standing up to the left liberals. Obama recieved an endorsement from Senator Bob Casey, a pro-life democrat, and stabbed him in the back by addressing Planned Parenthood with regard to upholding Roe vs. Wade, but particularly protecting the right to abort up until the ninth month and later accepting the NARAL endorsement. Do you think that the Catholic voters in Pennsylvania did not notice this? Do you not think they watch C-Span like the rest of us? This does not sit well with many of the Reagan democrats, elderly, female, Hispanic, Christian and Catholic voters.
Puerto Rico’s primary is a very real reflection of not only the support of Clinton, but of the refusal to be bullied into a caucus by Anibal Acevedo-Vila, the island’s current Governor under indictment for tax fraud, campaign finance fraud and other things. This governor was seeking to hand over this island’s delegation to Obama. Real Democrats like Roberto Prats and McClintock intervened quickly because of one fundamental belief. Puerto Ricans do not need a mouth piece who may potentially sell them out in the caucus. They will cast every vote and voice until heard. Now, with respect to what would satisfy me, I will be satisfied when her 4 Michigan delegate votes are returned with an apology for stealing them to begin with. Levin had no right or legal criteria for doing so and neither did the rules and bylaws committee. Allow me to remind you, Michigan claims it did petition the DNC to allow them a change of date. The DNC has claimed impotency in achieving Michigan’s goal of shuffling the order of the primary states. Was Michigan being treated fairly all this time? No. Now we had a problem because they were stripped of their delegation for changing the date. Clinton decided to keep her name on the ballot. So did Kucinich. So did Dodd. The others strategically chose to remove their names. A strategy which backfired for them. The uncommitted votes were just that. By law they remain uncommitted. Since there was more than one candidate who backed out, NO ONE CAN EVER REALLY CLAIM TO KNOW HOW THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED. As Tina Flournoy indicated one can not rely on polls and exit data to mastermind the criteria for which to now award delegates. If we are now to award delegates based on polls. I will do one better. Let us take the nomination away from Obama now. Most polls indicate that this country wants Clinton as president, including the one on AOL’s Political Machine. Also, most polls show that Clinton will beat McCain. This is why she is reserving her right to take it to the credentials committee. They broke the law. They know it. She knows it. I know it.
Get it all out sister. The healing starts now.
She didn’t lose 11 straight contests fairly? she didn’t avoid states like DELAWARE?!?! she issnt saying that caucus states shouldnt count? (she did, she did, she is)
Obama drew 20k in Wilmington I WAS THERE! (and it was the most uplifting experience in my life) And who broke the law? excuse me? you better be able to back that up, because you are getting into some pretty serious conspiracy theory level stuff there kiddo.
get over it.
And what polls? even polls on Fixed News show Obama over Clinton keep changing the rules, keep moving the goal posts just as the young new guy is about to get there. Hillary was the presumptive ESTABLISHMENT nominee back in DECEMBER. Remember? or do you only know the most recent HIllary. The crying damsel? or the war hawk who wants to obliterate Iran? or the duck hunter from humble beginings? (and where the hell did her souther drawl come from?) or someone who wants to unify the party? or when she said “hard working white americans vote for me” (talk about race baiting.. ) you are very impassioned about democracy which is just ducky, but it is causing you to also be irresponsible and if you vote for McCain, and he takes us to war with Iran, and it starts World War 3, I hope you remember you only have yourselves to blame. a vote for McCain is a vote for Bush
put THAT in your hat and smoke it
A. Price. You are now displaying hysteria because you clearly see that with one swift blow, he can lose it all and she will win it all back.
Now, the superdelegates have started contacting him and demanding that he put her on the ticket. He is not responding and not reaching out. Obama is being tested to see if he really wants what is best for the party, which is to win. If Obama chooses to not put her on his ticket or give her the courtesy of an offer, this will be a clear indicator that he could care less for party unity or the voice of her popular votes. This will force the super delegates to begin to side with Clinton. A. Price, check your facts before you lie to the public. She never said “hard working white Americans vote for me.” She was quoting the AP poll which the media was also quoting. This is a fact. But since Hillary says it, the media began racebaiting. That is the type of power she wields over them. They hang on her every word like lap dogs. This is why I still believe she will win. As far as her obliteration of Iran, she also said this in response to a question with regard to the threat they pose to Iraq, Israel and other nations in the region. She made clear that she would defend Israel, the Iraqis and the less powerful countries bordering and near Iran. What she said was that if they demonstrated a more severe threat to the region, we had the arsenal to obliterate them. She never said she wanted to. Now, keep twisting those words anyway you want, they still do not mean what you have indicated. Hillary Clinton was not welcomed by the state of Delaware, nor by the members of City Council who were overwhelmingly endorsing Obama. No one in the state of Delaware apparently took the interest to set up a phone bank. Most city politicians felt threatened by their constituencies if they sided with Clinton. DO NOT EVER LECTURE ME ON DEMOCRACY. If making politicians feel threatened for endorsing the most qualified candidate, Clinton, is reflective of change, I now sit and laugh at your continued hysteria. By the way, while you felt uplifted, Chris Matthews felt a rush up his leg. I tend to believe that what Matthews really felt was the pole up his a s s . You may have been blinded by his rhetoric, but 51% of democrats aren’t and most Clinton supporters do not want him as president for his affiliations, black liberation ties, his beliefs on morality, and his underhanded attacks on Clinton from the Axis of Evil twins Axelrod and Plouffe. McCain is a moderate republican. He is an environmentalist, a family man, btw his son actually does serve in the military, unlike most politicians in this country, and he can’t be muscled. So the evil twins have met their match on this one. Just today it was announced that some news agency has potentially damaging footage of Michelle Obama. Clinton had nothing to do with this. As we know Obama is now fighting McCain. Let’s see what the GOP has shall we?
wow. McCain is bush. Obama and Hillary are pretty much the same candidate. remember last year when all the democrats had the same thing to say? yeah. go a head vote for McCain.
and i have never called you a liar. by quoting the AP poll, she allowed more people to hear it than would have. it was a divisive comment. hers or someone else’s. Do you want what is best for the party? stop acting like you are being personally attacked because one of the most popular Democrats in the past 20 years couldn’t win a few elections.
And stop personally attacking me. this is not about who is a good or bad person. it’s politics
grow up
A – Seriously, ‘by quoting the AP poll, she allowed more people to hear it’ is really reaching. AP articles appear everywhere. Nevermind that there was absolutely nothing racist about what the AP wrote. Since when is it a sin to mention whites as a demographic?
You guys are really getting a little crazy here.
P – I never implied there wasn’t mocking on both sides. I simply responded to A.Price who claimed that Obama never mocked Clinton.
Agreed, Dom. Both sides have their list of perceived/real slights. And it isn’t a sin to mention whites as a demographic. Just as it isn’t a sin to say that people who’ve lost their economic security are bitter. Obama supporters jumped on the word ‘white’ the same way Clinton supporters jumped on ‘bitter’.
And the media had a feeding frenzy. I hate when that happens, but unfortunately, that’s part of the political process. And I’ll think you’ll agree, Dom, that I didn’t pile on those “gaffes”.
However when Melissa tosses out slime like this:
“Obama became a thug when he told a crowe of voters that Clinton was in her element and he raised his middle finger quite deliberately to imply the F word at her. Then, he proceeded to brush her off his shoulders as if she were filth. To me, he is the filthy one.”
And this little, unsubstantiated gem of smear…
“Just today it was announced that some news agency has potentially damaging footage of Michelle Obama. Clinton had nothing to do with this.”
… I’m not sure if I should laugh or cry. In Melissaland all ills that befell Clinton were Obama’s doing and all ills that befell Obama were justified and brought about by his own hand. Not trying to sound like Jason, but that’s pure crap.
Mud was slung by both sides. To pretend otherwise demonstrates either a breathtaking political naivete or a deliberate attempt to spread malicious gossip. Either way, Melissa, a link was required.
It is okay. You can sound like me. I’ve been proven to be 100% correct about everything having to do with this race.
That’s why you’re a god, Jason.
I think the bitter/cling comment was blown out of proportion, but it should be a huge concern for Obama supporters since the label of ‘elitist’, along with the swiftboaters, is what effectively sunk Kerry.
The middle finger thing is on youtube. It may have been completely accidental, but judging from the crowd’s reaction and his smile at their reaction, it looked pretty intentional. Whatever. It was childish, but that can be expected from both sides. The rumor about the Michelle video is interesting, but I won’t believe anything until I see it.
As far as the blame game, it exists on both sides. I vividly remember the Obama campaign blaming the Clinton campaign for distributing the picture of him in Muslim garb. That was never substantiated, but the accusation got a week’s worth of coverage.
Like I said… Both sides.
And if our positions had been reversed and Hillary was the presumptive nominee I shudder to think what I would be writing. But in the end, only one can win… and didn’t we always know that?
If it had been Hillary how would you feel if Obama supporters said they would vote for McCain, that they would close their checkbooks and let the chips fall where they may? And I’m not denying that some would.
The scene that’s playing out now was inevitable… no matter who won. The question now is how we handle it. Several Supreme Court Justices are hanging on until the election. They won’t last four more years, and have I metioned that I have an 11 year old daughter? There are big issues at stake, and the only way a Dem can lose this year is if the other Dem’s supporters sit this election out or vote for McCain.
And if the Dems lose it won’t be because of the Republicans… we’ll screw ourselves.
agreed there. we (dems) SHOULD have been able to run a cold cup of coffee as our candidate and soundly beat the republicans. …..Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory……. (that isnt mine, but i forget who said it … Olberman or someone like that…….
by the way, not to change the subject….. but where does everyone stand (being Delaware-ians here) on the Blue Water wind power stuff?
so what now?
Well, looks like its time to start trashing McBush!
It has begun, A. Price.
Andy: Care to show me where in the Consitution it says that a party can decide “who” gets to vote. It doesnt! In fact both Jefferson and Adams stated that “if there is a two party system” it will be harmful to democracy. Andy better study up on Plessy vs Ferguson, and Brown vs. Board of Education….the two parties have been violating the consitutional right to vote of independents, green, liberaterians and any other third party member. Its undemocratic to hold voting in public schools, etc, and then deny any american citizen the right to vote in a primary. We should all be supporting one primary day nationwide and every american voting. As an independent I should be able to choose the “best candidate” I support regardless of party.
You will be hearing a lot more on this issue in the next few months…in fact a court case may be filed to make sure we who are not dems or repubs are DENIED our right to vote.
Why do you think a third party cant get traction in this country. Cuz the two parties decided that they would have different rules in every state to make sure there was never a third party challenger to the two party corporate system. Its illegal, undemocratic, we are being denied, “equal protection” and “due process” ….its consitutional.
I just want to say Hello.
Hello, Marie.
Today I am very sad for this country. I feel that we have lost Hope. Hopefully, the change that most people are looking for you find it.
Marie, one side was always going to feel like you do today. I would be devasted if my candidate hadn’t won, so I understand where you are coming from.
But the truth is we need to find a way to come together and beat McCain. Remember the McCain who called his wife the “c” word? The McCain who laughed when one of his supporters asked him, “How do we beat the bitch (Hillary)? And the McCain who told the joke, “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father.”
Disgusting.
Disgusting, but damn funny, Pandora!
This issues you bring up do not help each and every american on a personal level. I am concern about the economic stability of my country. What is everyone capable of say when we can’t manage ourselves financially. Perfect example how has the democrat government helped us locally.
Now all the democrats are running away from him(Obama). I told you so. No one wants any part of that ticket, including Hillary. He now has Durbin furious with him and keeps dividing the party as days go on. How long before we here that the DNC will cave in at the convention and ask the delegates and super delegates to go for Hillary. Or even better, word is Hillary is pondering running as an independent. With Hillary supporters joining Clintons4McCain and other worthy organizations whose mission is to take down the Obama nomination, we can truly comprehend the magnitude of the animosity for all things Obama. I was right about everything all along. I told you all he was being tested and I warned you all of what would happen if he proved himself disloyal and tried to rate above his colleagues. Also, in today’s news the issue of the gas tax ease and windfall profits tax came up for a vote in the senate. Hmmm? This was Hillary’s idea which was criticized by Obama as pandering and the economists as well. All of a sudden now the dems in the senate want to steal her idea because it is politically expedient and their constituencies are threatening them? The dems are such scum. I am a lady and I have been forced to use language against these animals like never before. But as I have often said, I never count Hillary out and never will. I still believe she is going to be our president. She knows what is good for the country and how to get it done right. Goodnight and peace, even to all of you Obama lovers or as I fondly call you, “Obamabots.”
Hi Pandora, BTW all of the media outlets showed him do this at a rally. I am sorry if you missed the news that evening. I live in New York. Our local Fox affiliate channel 5, showed the footage and indicated he had given her the finger. Also, the local 11:00 news on channel 7, 2, and 4 showed this. I cannot give you a link in Delaware as I do not live in the Philadelphia area, but I bet if you go to Youtube, it is probably there. Most of his rallies are and believe me bloggers would not miss a chance to display this one. Also, for all of you Hillary lovers, I was at Baruch at her election night rally and it was spectacular! My husband taped me on tv as I was sitting in the bleachers behind Hillary to the left of the screen. I was quoted in the New York Daily News the next day in an article about her supporters. The Clinton’s are a great family and Terry McCauliffe is fantastic and he indicated to her supporters, staff and volunteers that it might not be over. I don’t think it is over either.
Now all the democrats are running away from him(Obama).
*
gee, why then are all the polls showing a significant bump for him this week? He is ahead of McCain in a pretty fair number of sub-groups.
“I was right about everything all along.”
Lunatics always say that.
Hi Melissa. Thanks for visiting. I was starting to like the trolls that have been around for a while. You are a breath of fresh air to my worst angels.
At best, that video is ambiguous. You will read into it whatever you want, but I read it in the context of the high road that Obama has taken throughout the campaign. Such crudity would be completely out of character.
Pound sand, troll.
Hillary won the popular vote. 18,000,000 strong. She is the real contender. Never forget that! She did it with less money and advertising and she did it with the help of supporters and volunteers like myself who worked countless hours for free to make sure she won the popular vote away from Obama. Now he can never claim to be the people’s choice. He is the choice of the creeps at the DNC. Hey, everyone if you want to see how impassioned Hillary supporters are please go to Youtube and look up Harriet Christian and see the two videos : one is her yelling at the DNC bylaws committee members and the second is her explanation on Neil Cavuto. It runs almost ten minutes long. She is terrific! Then on the right are other video links and one references Deborah Foster a Hillary Clinton supporter and teacher from Long Island. She is also great. Another one features a woman from California who flew in and give her award winning commentary. Hillary Clinton supporters are the best!!
Nancy, if you go to the polls as the one on the politcal machine, you will see McCain leading Obama by ten points. McCain has been leading for the last two weeks. I never listen to CNN or MSNBC because they are slanted. The AOL/political machine polls have been most accurate thus far. Also, most Clinton supporters are NOT supporting Obama. I know this for a fact.
Whatever.
Honestly, I am done having this insane conversation with deranged Clinton supporters. Melissa, please have someone read the dosing instructions on your medication. I think you have drifted out of the therapeutic range for it.
Dear Liberalgeek,
Why you call yourself a geek is not clear, but okay he we go.
The video in mention is very clear for the 18,000,000 Clinton supporters. He clearly states,” Clinton is in her element”, when lifting his middle finger to his cheek. If you choose to give him the leg up on this one and take his side, that is your perrogative. However, let us remember that more voters sided with her and not him. No one can ever change that fact.
With out-of-state volunteers who have nothing better to do than post ill-researched crap on a local Delaware blog in the wee hours, I can’t imagine how she lost.
If only it were a fact. Why are you here? Is your shrink not taking your calls?
Wow. This thread has been running since February 6th. That has to be some kind of record.
Mr. Mascitti are you the same person that writes for the Wilmington News Journal? I can assure you that I am no lunatic. I am a New Yorker, born and bred. I can assure you that Obama will not be our president, unless he decides to buy his way off in November. There is so much dirt on Obama and if you are a member of the press, shame on you for not fulfilling your responsibilities to the people of your state!
“I can assure you that I am no lunatic. I am a New Yorker, born and bred. ”
Which one is it?
Mr. Mascitti, why are you so afraid of reporting facts and doing your research responsibly?
Michigan now, Michigan forever. Right?
Anyway, please continue to enjoy your fantasy world in which Clinton won and “no one can ever change that.”
I hope that bit of mythology comforts you as you push your shopping cart full of dirty blankets down the shoulder of this crazy highway we call life.
Go to bed, Melissa. Don’t wake up. Reality is bound to disappoint you.
Maybe Melissa is Rob Foraker.
I am here for the very reason all Clinton supporters are flooding every website relating to super delegates and Obama. We have one clear mission and that is to make sure people start getting the real truth. For example, did any of you know that when Obama had his rally which the media reported was 75,000 in attendance, they were really there for a rock concert and that Obama was slipped in between acts?
Mr. Mascitti, why are you so afraid of reporting facts and doing your research responsibly?
No. 1, you haven’t shown the slighest familiarity with facts. No. 2, I don’t take orders from nameless assholes on the internet who put the AOL home page down as their website.
No, wait. Switch those around. Make “I don’t take orders from nameless assholes on the internet” No. 1.
Wrong again, Melissa. A band was on the bill, but Obama was the headliner. So much for facts.
You’re not Jewish by any chance, are you?
“I am here for the very reason all Clinton supporters are flooding every website relating to super delegates and Obama. ”
Get a frickin’ life, you pathetic wretch.
For example, did any of you know that when Obama had his rally which the media reported was 75,000 in attendance, they were really there for a rock concert and that Obama was slipped in between acts?
comedy gold!
Jason, I am not even talking about Michigan, why are you?
I am speaking about the fact that Clinton supporters, staff and volunteers and waging war against the DNC and the Obama camp. We are not supporting Obama and funny thing is it appears that the two senators from your state aren’t openly supporting him either. Ted Strickland does not want VP, Evan Bayh does not want it either, Webb purposely got caught using some derrogatory remark yesterday. We all know that the road will eventually lead to Hillary and she will say no, and demand that she be placed at the top of the ticket. If not, she will run as an independent.
Jason 330, contact Glenn Beck. He reported it last week.
Yes, Melissa, I’m certain that those people were just there for a third-rate garage band that typically sells out hole in the wall bars.
If you are really behind Hillary, you would actually discuss issues that matter and you would work to defeat John McCain. As it is, you want to do it the hard way. Fine. But you will find no quarter here.
And if you are going to act on Hillary’s behalf, please try not to comment on threads started on February 6th, it makes you look even more stupid than you already look.
You are like the guy that just won’t leave when the party’s over. It’s over. Go Home.
Someone at Eschaton posted this:
Sigh, this is from the site Clintons4McCain.
“THANK YOU
His plan to disarm America and dismantle our nuclear arsenal.
His connection and close friendship with a corrupt crook and convicted felon. Obama supports sex education for Kindergarten! Obama sought the endorsement of the Marxist Party in 1996! Obama’s embracement of appeasement.Obama has a huge anti-gun record.Obama may not be a Muslim, but every association with religion he has made seems to be outrageously radical!Obama has a very bad habit of re-writing history.
Obama refuses to cut his friendship with unrepentant anti-American terrorists!A history of terrorist fundraisers for Obama.Obama’s ties to Kenya and his cousin Odinga.
Obama has many, many radical friends!
Many Obama lies the media will ignore.He ran on the socialist, pro-PLO party.He has a list of anti-Israel advisors.His disturbing statement that young people having babies instead of abortions is punishment.His condescending, elitist snobbery towards gun owners and the religious.His disrespect and refusal to salute the American flag.
His plan to disarm America and dismantle our nuclear arsenal.
Are you paying attention? ”
Cheeto
Mascitti, no one gave you orders. You were asked a question. Furthermore, you seem a bit defensive, which leads me to believe I have hit a nerve. Perhaps you are one of those irresponsible journalists who bought into all things fraud Obama. It is okay to be angry, just as long as you are with yourself first. BTW, it is so refreshing to know that I seem to have such power over your emotions.
comedy gold!
Shirley Vandever evidently actually believes that. Sad.
“I am speaking about the fact that Clinton supporters, staff and volunteers and waging war against the DNC and the Obama camp. ”
No, they’re not. I imagine a few unconnected-to-reality dopes like you are doing so, but denying reality isn’t a great way to attract followers.
So, are you Jewish? Because the only people I’ve run into who are this anti-Obama are rednecks and nutcase conservative Jews, and if you’re in New York you’re more likely Jewish than a redneck. You are as stupid as a redneck, though.
Yes, Melissa, you can affect peoples thought and emotions. Get medicated ASAP.
Mascitti, what do the jews have to do with this anyway?
Are you some anti-semite? I am sure your readers would love to know this.
Now Al is going for the pure comedy gold…
“Furthermore, you seem a bit defensive, which leads me to believe I have hit a nerve.”
No, I just have a severe reaction to assholes. Especially lying ones, like you.
Now it’s threats. Comedy gold indeed. So answer the question, asshole.
Mascitti,
My familiarity with the facts come from informed journalists who refuse to lie for Obama. You apparently are one who seeks facts from those who seek to cover for him. There are two sides, maybe three to each story. I choose to ignore the side that seeks to give him refuge.
And for the record, I think all of our Supers have switched to the winner of the nominating process, Barack Obama. So actually, your work here is done, Melissa (or Rob).
Sure you are. Sure you do.
“Give him refuge”? WTF? You are either sick or a racist.
What Jews have to do with it, I find, is that some of them, especially those who place a priority on the security of Israel, hate and fear blacks because of Farrakhan. Understandable, yet still reprehensible.
What you have posted so far shows that you have no knowledge of even the most basic facts. That’s the only side to this story.
Mascitti, you should never have implyed that I was Jewish because of my stance. Now you are pissed off because people can see that perhaps you do have issues with Jews and if you do, this is why people are not willing to support Obama because he has a truly negative effect on his own supporters view of other cultures.
I am not intimidated by your “tough talk” and I am not afraid of John McCain. However, 18,000,000 want this to go to Denver in August because they know Obama is inept and unqualified for the position of commander in chief.
Hey Al, Melissa could also be a lesbian. I have heard some angry talk from the lesbians, too.
🙂
Dumb AND an asshole.
Since you’re incapable of doing even the most basic research, you should know that there’s a web site called Jews Against Obama.
There’s also this from a recent Eric Alterman column in The Nation:
“During the past few months a small group of neoconservative Jews, many of whom hold key positions in the world of official Jewish institutions, have been working to undermine the presidential candidacy of Barack Obama with a series of carefully planted character assassinations and deliberately misleading innuendo. I noticed this trend when Debra Feuer, a counsel for the American Jewish Committee, sent a confidential memo to her counterparts at other organizations criticizing Obama’s views on the Middle East, Iran and Syria and attacking him for having once appeared at a fundraiser headlined by the late Edward Said. The memo, reported by the Forward, was immediately disowned, but not denied, by AJC executive director David Harris.”
And so on. You still haven’t answered the question. What’s wrong, did I hit a nerve?
liberalgeek, I do not know who Rob is.
Biden has not endorsed him openly and neither has Carper. Neither have the remaining Clinton super delegates in New York. They have made a joint statement stating that they were pleased to see that Hillary was helping his campaign, but that was it. Also, I just saw Charles Rangel this weekend and he did not reach out to the Manhattan Community seeking support for Barack Obama. As they do not have to decide until August at the convention and the delegates have until August 4th, all things can change in favor of Hillary Clinton.
I love the way the uneducated have embraced Hillary so strongly. It’s a rather ironic fate for such a stuck-up jerk who thinks so highly of her own intellect.
Being surrounded by slack-jawed supporters must truly be Hillary’s hell.
Rob is another insane poster here that writes like you and has the same sort of knack to comment on long-dead posts and specializes in character assassinations and race-baiting. I can introduce the two of you. I’m certain you would get along famously.
Hey liberalgeek. I am not a lesbian, but if I were what would that have to do with anything? So because a woman has a solid and strong opinion, she is a Jew or a lesbian? I wish you could see how ridiculous you both sound. Many Clinton suppporters were Catholic, female, male, white, Hispanic, African-American, Jewish, Muslim, Asian, etc.. If you saw the faces represented in the crowd at the rally last week at Baruch, which I attended, you would have seen great diversity. You and Mascitti seem to be haters of diversity. Shame and a pity. We had such a fun time cursing at the media, calling them names and making them afraid. Mascitti, I am no racist. You were the first to make the remark about Jews. Clinton people have class. We do not have to attack someone by race because they choose to support Obama. That is a trait which is beneath us but sums all of you up pretty well.
Mascitti, now a person who holds a Master’s is uneducated? You seem like the same scum who kept reporting over and over how her supporters were uneducated. Oh yeah, the American Federations of Teachers was uneducated, nearly two million strong.
liberalgeek, do you even know what racebaiting is? I have not once said a derrogatory thing about race. What is your problem? Comments like this are why 18,000,000 have turned against him and are heading for McCain or waiting for Hillary to run as an independent.
If all they hold is degrees in education, I’d say yes, most of them are uneducated.
You hold a master’s degree? You should really be ashamed of yourself then.
So, given that I have posted my very legitimate reasons for the question (assuming you can comprehend what you read, which is doubtful), can I have an answer? Are. You. Jewish? I am known to everyone who frequents this blog. You aren’t. Are you going to answer the question, or continue to ignore reality?
FTR, I was egging on Al, a little. I don’t care whether you are an eskimo (you aren’t an eskimo, are you?), you are a shill for the 2nd best candidate this year.
Better luck next time.
“If you saw the faces represented in the crowd at the rally last week at Baruch, which I attended, you would have seen great diversity.”
Yes, a coalition of women, the p-whipped and eunuchs. It must really be a thrill to be in a crowded room in which the only person with testosterone poisoning is your hero.
Mascitti, no I am Catholic.
Geek: When the opposition is organized, I like to know where it’s coming from. The Hand Beneath The Sock, as it were.
Catholic? Great. Then I’ll put you down as uneducated.
Mascitti, there were a lot of male Clinton supporters present from all walks of life, some wealthy, middle class and some poor. You seem to have a problem with a woman being the potential president of this country.
You can put me down as uneducated, if I can put you down as a sexist jerk.
No, I have a problem with nut cases who invade a local blog from two states away looking to pick a fight. I’m giving you one. Did you actually think the nonsense you’re spouting — all of it easily refuted in about 10 seconds on Google — was going to convince anyone of anything but the irrationality of Hillary freaks?
Please, vote for McCain. I don’t want someone like you pulling the same lever I do.
But for the record, I am far from uneducated. Are you far from a sexist jerk?
Sexist jerk, eh? I thought you Hillary supporters didn’t stoop to this level.
“But for the record, I am far from uneducated. ”
My mistake. You apparently went to school all those years without learning how to do basic research or construct a logical argument. What a waste of money.
Google? LOL! I go to the papers on line. NY Times, Local papers from every state which endorsed either candidate. You see we Clinton supporters do actually call the editors from these papers and do speak to them, like Randall Kent of the ArgusLeader. We don’t bother with television because we know that the media is extremely biased, except for Glenn Beck.
I did not stoop to any level. Again, I asked a question, one which you refuse to answer as well.
His name is Randall Beck, you moron, not Randall Kent. So much for your crack research.
What question is that? And why do I owe you an answer? I don’t recall anyone inviting you here, and I owe you exactly nothing. I’m not trying to convince you to do anything but go away.
I have constructed a logical arguments. Furthermore, as someone who actually did have conference calls with individuals such as Harold Ickes, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton and was able to ask questions of Harold Ickes, I find it funny that you choose to state that my comments are illogical simply because you choose not to agree with them.
Oh, by the way: Editors will talk to you because they’re trained to. You should know that they absolutely hate doing so, especially if you’re not from their readership area.
And talking to Randall Beck won’t do you much good. Most newspapers separate the editorial board from the newsroom; the editor of a paper seldom gets a vote on which candidate a newspaper endorses. IOW, you wasted your time — just like you did on your education.
“I have constructed a logical arguments. ”
Wrong again. A logical argument begins with facts. None of yours fit the description, in that none of them are true.
According to the editorial reps at the Lexington Courier Journal or the CJ, that board made the determination to endorse Barack Obama collectively. So where did you get your overgeneralization from. I also called this paper and yes you were right about Mr. Beck it is his correct last name. However, I did speak to him and he was the one who issued the statement on behalf of his paper clarifying the RFK blowup. I really don’t care if you choose to call me a moron because of a person’s last name. The main point is as I indicated to you, Clinton supporters go straight to the source, we do not bother with television anymore.
Maybe Gannett chooses to operate this way. Others do not necessarily follow this path. Oh, and by the way, Randall was very happy to take the call and was very flattered that her New York supporters expressed their thanks to him and the great state of South Dakota for the ten point win last Tuesday, in case most forget she did come from a twenty point deficit to take this state.
“According to the editorial reps at the Lexington Courier Journal or the CJ, that board made the determination to endorse Barack Obama collectively. So where did you get your overgeneralization from.”
“The board” is what I referred to by its full title, the editorial board. A person like Randall Beck, who is the top newsroom editor, is usually not on the editorial board unless the newspaper is very small.
I get this “overgeneralization” from working in the newspaper business for 27 years.
“Clinton supporters go straight to the source, we do not bother with television anymore.”
I’m sure that will make you friends at newspapers all over the country.
You really should see a shrink for this, by the way. Since you have cut yourself off from reality, are you aware that Hillary has endorsed Obama? Does it make any difference to you?
No need to attempt to refute these facts. This was information that we supporters and volunteers were privy to for the purpose of contacting voters in South Dakota, which we apparently did rather successfully. Oh and BTW full of myself, that’s a beaut! I guess you do not own any mirrors in your home either.
Um, I was talking about Hillary, you narcissist. Refute what facts?
By the way, I called you a moron because you got Randall’s name wrong in a comment defending your research skills. It’s sort of like spelling your name wrong on your resume.
Yes, Randall is a very polite man. I used to work for him. Which is how I know how much he would hate having to talk with you or anyone like you on the phone. He has an actual job to do and not enough hours of the day to do it in.
Again, you very clearly Googled me (LOL indeed) to find out where i worked and who owns the paper. Now try having an original thought: Do you really think I don’t know how any other newspapers but my own are run? A quarter-century in a gypsy trade and you think I don’t know anyone at other newspapers? Your Masters must be in education.
If you saw Hillary’s speech and saw it with the utmost clarity, you will see that she was only smiling when she spoke about her campaign. When she was left the arduous task of “endorsing” Obama, she looked straight faced and at times put off. Most of her supporters there in Washington saw this and we discussed this. Of course she will do what the DNC is pestering her to do. Also, she is doing so to protect many of her supporters who were getting death threats. Even as we were heading home from the subway, we had Obama people following us onto the R train after 11:00pm harrassing us. He had his Obamabots in attendance at the rally last Tuesday, totally univited. This was brought to the attention of her staff.
Ohhh-kay then.
Actually, I’m glad deranged supporters like you are keeping up the fight. It will nail shut the coffin lid on the Clintons for good and all. That’s well worth a McCain presidency in my book.
Look, I’d love to go at this all night but I have to work in the morning and you probably have to check in with your Hillary apparatchik. If I’m ever committed to Bellevue, I’ll look you up.
Mascitti, I was not nor have I defended my research skills. What I have stated to you is that I do not care for mainstream media anymore. Also, I did not Google your name to find out where you worked or the company you worked for. I know you from reading the Wilmington News Journal. I do like to know what is going on in the rest of the country. My opinion is that no one would be able to report on the Thomas Capano case like a reporter from Wilmington, therefore, I went to the News Journal for info. Is it so hard to believe that people actually take the time to seek answers without pushing a button on the remote control?
unless it is to find Glenn Beck right? YAY FOX NOISE!!! ….. In another attempt to move this conversation away from the ugly……. Who should fill Biden’s seat when he becomes VP? (yes, I’d actually like to discuss DELAWARE Politics… call me crazy) btw score one Jew FOR Obama *pats self on back
Ok I should clarify that before I get called uneducated, elite, secret muslim, lesbian, or anything else that is getting throw around here. I know CARPER will become the Sr Sen . Who should be the NEW guy? (or gal ….. I don’t wanna be sexist either)
A.price, hi it is me. I highly doubt that Biden will accept VP, particularly because Biden is so much more qualified to be in the white house than Obama. It would be an insult to Biden for you to assume he would accept this. Shame on you.
Also, the poll that some are using to point to Obama’s lead over McCain is biased by NBC/WSJ and the media. It interviewed / polled 1,017 voters. The poll that I am referring to on political machine.ocm polled over 2oo,000. This poll was more accurate in accounting for Hillary Clinton’s win of the popular vote. While all the other polls were not in agreement with her math in regarding the popular vote, political machine very clearly week after week called it right. So did the Philadelphia Inquirer state that she was the leader in the popular vote, before anyone else dared to. Glenn Beck works for Headline News.
Price, oops the poll on political machine has over 400,000 people polled.
Also, who cares whether or not you are Jewish. This is not something that should determine or influence your right to expressing your opinion. Even though I do not agree with you on Obama, I will never believe that anyone has the right to ask you your religion, nationality or educational background as Americans we all have the right to our views and the right to voice them as well.
I have the right to ask you any damn thing I please. Especially when you don’t even sign your name, and toss out lies left and right. For example, you claim you found my name by reading the News Journal for Capano coverage. I wasn’t even writing then; I was an editor whose name hadn’t appeared in the paper for years by the late ’90s.
You have a right to your views, and I have a right to call bullshit.
Melissa’s views are coming from Glenn Beck. ‘Nuff said.
Al, I caught the Capano reference as well. Melissa is a sloppy fact checker.
She is consistent, though. She doesn’t get anything right.
I wonder if it’s true that disgruntled Hillary supporters are trolling the blogosphere, as she claims, looking for pro-Obama sites to annoy people on. And if she’s at all typical of volunteers, I wonder what HQ spiked the Kool-Aid with.
Isn’t it ironic that someone like this would accuse Obama supporters of being robots?
Ironic, and a little bit scary.
Not sure who she is, or what motivates her, or how she stumbled across us. Hillary would be ashamed of Melissa.
Also, just wondering – and if this doesn’t calm down in week or so I may have to post on this – do these ardent HRC supporters understand how their hardline approach can hurt their beloved candidate?
Hey, with supporters like these…
People, I did not only read the Journal for the Capano case. I am not checking facts, nor have I the need to Google anyone’s name. The fact is you did have a column in the News Journal and I do read papers from other states. Also, info on the Capano case was still being written after 2000 and reported on the airwaves as well. You all want to do fact checking as if we were here to report and not share opinions. It seems you are all a bunch of frustrated reporters, inept ones at best.
Pandora, your argument is very reminiscent of the same stuff said by Donna Brazile. However, that argument was terribly flawed in that it seemed to overlook that fact that Hillary’s base was getting stronger by the day. Also, Hillary and her people would be very satisfied that she has such a strong following of 18,000,000 supporters who refuse to be forced to vote for an inexperienced candidate. Do not pretend to be in the mind of Hillary Clinton. This would make you look like Father Pfleger.
Ladies and Gentlemen you are all off base and should allow everyone to express their opinions without getting nasty. The Obama supporters get very testy, perhaps things are turning out the way you want them to. Don’t be shocked that by August some one else is standing up in Denver with the Nomination. It would be the best thing for Our Country. Let us face it no one is ready to hand over the keys to the White House to an individual who has been created by the Media and the DNC. A puppet.
Al what time is you radio show. I want to tune in and speak one on one with you. You are really defensive about people who just want to protect our Country. What has Obama promised you?
What about the Kool-Aid? Someone thirsty? You got a problem with the Kool-Aid drinkers?
Yeah, what about the Kool-Aid? Why does everyone need to be getting so racial talkin’ bout the Kool-Aid?
BTW, Al I never said I read the paper for YOUR coverage of the Capano case, I said I read it for the coverage because a reporter there in Wilmington would have done a better job in doing so than someone from another state. Now, whether the reporter was you or someone else was not my point. You are a sloppy reader.
Ah… Melissa and Marie have called in reinforcements. Knock yourselves out, ladies.
That’s right, Melissa. I caught his bull too. He does not seem to read well. He interprets what he wants to, then tries to antagonize you. Insecure man.
Pandora seems you too like to stick up for Al. You should have read the comment more clearly as well. I read it and understood that she was not referencing Al as that reporter. She said “a reporter.’
Al, I think I got a lot right. You just are not prepared to agree or understand where Hillary supporters are coming from. That is fine. But you are doing your audience a disservice by not presenting unbiased coverage of this candidate and his opponents.
Pandora why would you think I have anthing to do with Robin, Melissa or Cleo? I just interpret it like I read it. Obama is History. Hey guys their is a new McCain Girl. She hits the Air Ways today! Check her out. Maybe you’ll convert. We all know what you think with.
Uh, because you just signed your name as Robin? This is sock puppetry brought to a new low. Pathetic.
Well, “Melissa,” I didn’t write AT ALL for the paper from 1995 to 2000. So you didn’t come across my name reading anything about Capano. And I completely refuse to believe the bull that you would remember the name of someone 8 years later whose name didn’t appear where you said it did in the first place. You have zero credibility, and neither do the other two screen names you created. All link to sites that have nothing to do with any individual. The people who read here are internet-savvy. YOu’re not fooling anyone, and you won’t be getting any more replies from me.
Oops, Robin… I mean Marie! LOL! This is too easy.
Dear god. I go to bed and all hell breaks loose.
I have to say it’s a bit disheartening that otherwise intelligent people (Al, LG, etc.) focus on name calling (racist, narcissist, lesbian, Jew, uneducated, redneck, moron) rather than argue the issues. You may think Melissa is off-base and even a bit unhinged, but instead of countering her with positives about Obama, you attacked her personally which kind of made you guys seem a little, well, off-base and even a bit unhinged. I’m just saying that you could probably have argued your case a little more like adults.
Do we need a naughty chair thread on DE Lib?
Dom –
How do you argue the issues with these morons? They think 75,000 people went to a rock concert that was crashed by Obama because Glenn Beck said so.
I’m not arguing with that. No logic, reason or evidence will move them from thier deranged positions.
I meant THIS moron – since it is all one person.
ok, let me get this straight. all you angry lesbi..lets be friends…. and i mean that as offensively as possible… who claim to support Sen. Clinton would vote against Obama just because you are upset? you would vote against everything Clinton believes in just because she lost? That is an insult to her. You are acting like petulant children who didn’t get picked first to be hall monitor so now you are rebelling against the idea of hallways. Melissa, you say you are from NY right? do you just come into chat rooms to stir up anti Obama sentiment and ruin everyone’s good time? Were you this terrified of Obama before this election cycle? I’d really love to know your agenda because frankly you sound like Rush.. Pretending to support Clinton and throw slander at Obama because you are scared your religious-right junta is about to collapse in a cloud of progressive policies. I’m sure you are very nice in person. I have many conservative friends, but your postings smack of a petty ingrate who seems more interested in having one of her (her I assume) elected than … even maybe the second best? That is the insane part of all of this to me. In a way, people like you show just how hard it will be to unite this country WHEN Obama is president. You are tribal in a way.
Hillary or no one! let the country sink further into war, and debt and recession under a senile old man who has just one credit to his name, and that was getting caught by the enemy. He has a long record of corruption and no knowing who to support or what to be. John McCain will flood the courts with conservative judges that will outlaw women’s right to choose, gay’s rights to marry, and my kids rights to not pray to Jesus in public school. He will draft your children and let the environment kill us all. Is that really better than someone who would has almost the same platform as Hill? *put hand near bum remove head*
let me reiterate that the lesbian comment was meant as a joke. Thus the smiley face… As for the race-baiting comment, I was off-base. After rereading “Melissa’s” comments, she did not bring up race. Sorry about that, I really was starting to think that she was Rob Foraker and I was pretty tired. Oh, and there was sniper fire.
Melissa, have fun voting for McCain. This is how mindless dittoheads are born. By the end of Obama’s first term, you’ll be making jokes at the expense of his children, thus completing the cycle from offended Clinton supporter to dittohead.
I feel like I have just seen evolution in action.
I heard Obama has a black child. I wonder if people will actually leave the country when he is president. ah to dream. I can’t believe I, and people who agree with me can finally say…. America… love it or leave!
I refuse to apologize to Marie/Melissa/ Robin/Cleo. And, Dom, I wouldn’t insult you by grouping you with this troll. Notice how “they” disappeared once exposed. And the truly hilarious part… she outed herself. What an idiot!
And every blog could benefit with a naughty chair. 😉
Dominique: Asking if she was Jewish wasn’t name calling. When a group called Jews Against Obama exists and keeps trying to make the case that he’s in league with the terrorists, they need to be called out (it should be noted that they don’t represent all Jews, who support Obama over McCain by something like a 2-1 ratio). And if you look up the Eric Alterman article I took a quote from, you’ll see that this is being pursued by very influential Jewish neo-cons.
The rest was, but only because she’s not a serious commenter; she’s either insane or a sock puppet. I don’t owe her rebuttals; those are readily available to anyone who feels like doing research. That includes you. Facts exist independently; they’re not subject to debate on a blog.
If you win the debate, it doesn’t change the facts on things like “Hillary won the popular vote.” If this sock puppet were capable of argument, I’d point out that to reach that claim you have to include Puerto Rico, which has no votes in the electoral college, and misrepresent the vote totals in caucus states. What’s the point? People like that are interested only in the facts that suit their view, and when none are available they simply make them up (“the 75,000 were there to see a rock concert, not Obama”).
Counter-arguments imply respect. I have none for anonymous liars.
They use thruthieness. It is actually funnier than the fake news people, because you know these ding-bats actually believe the stupid crap they spew.
At the risk of letting out too much about myself, I will say I haven’t been around as long and the majority of the population. that said, I make it a point to learn as much as i can about past elections and eras and US history in general. As a liberal AND a cynic, I can say Obama is the best thing that can happen to this country. Not that he is going to fist-bump everyone to wealth and happiness, but that if America can bring itself, when America brings it self, to elect someone like him. NOT BLACK, but young, progressive, a REAL leader, it will show that we aren’t the red-neck, xenophobic, po-dunk a$$es the rest of the world, and many of us see us as.
John McCain and Barack Obama we are on the razor’s edge of turning into W’s Texas style backwards pre-New Deal America, or becoming a great nation again and getting closer to the promise of our founding fathers.
and “Jewish Neo-cons” is almost a contradiction in terms. *shakes head*
Contradiction in terms? Ever heard of Bill Kristol?
Read this and get back to me:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080324/alterman
No No, I know they exist. And yeah I read Kristol’s “writing” in the Times when I think I may have been poisoned by my morning coffee and need something to help me vomit. what I was saying is that the non Jewish Neo-cons are often from the Christian Right who are represented by bigots like Falwell, Hagee, and Ted Haggard.
That any self respecting Jew could associate with these people is beyond me. But than again I’m a bleeding heart pinko liberal
I did not ask for any from you Al. and for the record I do recall your name and picture on the Journal from years ago. Again,you are a sloppy reader. Nor have I created any other name.
Pandora, I mean Jason, liberalgeek, etc.. she didn’t disappear for any other reason but that she has a job to attend to. Also, I have no idea what the hell you are referring to. I am Melissa and that is the only person I am.
Mr. Price, we are not voting for McCain because we are upset. We are voting for McCain because his views are more in line with ours. Clinton is and always has represented moderate democrats. Yes, perhaps in her younger days, the Huff Po would like to characterize her as liberal or radical, but she also espoused republican ideals as well durning the Nixon era. Furthermore, most of us never liked Obama from the onset. We do not buy into party unity because the party isn’t going to be held accountable when the next president screws up. The candidate will. The party will turn on the candidate so fast as they have always done. I supported Senator Clinton for her position on the issues of education, particularly on children with disabilities, since this is becoming an epidemic with the CDC reporting that 1 in 6 children is developing a disability before school age. Also, we all know the increasing numbers of children developing autism spectrum disorders. Senator Clinton in the past has co-sponsored and sponsored legislation in the amount of almost one billion dollars to help these children gain access to better early intervention and treatment programs. Also, I agree with her positions on foreign policy and health care. So did Elizabeth Edwards endorse her health care plan and so did the New York Times Krugman. Is it so hard for people in this damn country to believe that women vote based on issues? Give us a break. Did I tell you that you support Obama based on fluff or because of race or because of the pop star the media has made him out to be. No, I did not question why you supported him. Therefore, you should not diminish our reasons for voting for Clinton.
The rest of the world sees us as rednecks? I doubt it. Also, word is Ireland was rooting for Clinton. Great Britain ousted the Liberal Labour Party. Are you pandering to Sarkozy? France a nation that tried to prevent Muslims women from wearing their garb in public. I think they come off more redneck than we do. Italy’s leader said today he supports McCain. Hmm? I think the pattern is that many countries are not as far left liberal minded as you may believe.
In closing pseudointellectuals like Al Mascitti are highly amusing.
Dominique, hello. Hope you are well. Yes, while they could have countered with positives, they did not. Why? For the same reason most who are asked can’t. They really know nothing about this candidate. Every time the media asks someone all they can say is he represents change as if his brand of change is what everyone in America needs. We need solutions. We need a doer, not a talker. We need someone in that whitehouse with a proven record. For 18,000,000 that person is Hillary Clinton. Next in line is John McCain.
there was one difference between Clinton and Obama during the early debates that was a mandate on health care. Everything else was an agree-a-fest. There was also that awful gas tax holiday where HIllary said in her fake southern accent that she would not “cast her lot” with economists.
And I do think women vote on issues. smart women. you however vote on cliques. Us verses them right? Beat that mean black man!!!! It makes no sence ot say that Hillary is more in line with McCain SHE would flatly deny that. It is an insult to her, because it ties her with Bush. I have nothing but respect for HRC’s life and all she has done. I have always said that, and I was ready to work and vote for her. A better and more exciting candidate came along. It is my right to switch. Just as it is yours to get mad and vote for McCain. I just hope you understand that unless you are pro-life, anti gay-marriage, pro war, anti health care, and among the top 1% in the country as far as wealth, you would be voting against your self and against HRC’s ideals. I cant THINK of more of an insult. McCain will win because of it. Again I ask you. what is your agenda that makes you se HIllary and McCain as the same? which one of your names are you going to use to answer it?
and you made a blanket statement about Obamabots hey isn’t it enough that my spell check recognizes Clinton, and not Obama?
and it is ALMOST 18000000 she is also not counting caucus states, not giving any vote to Obama from michigan,.. are you suggesting that not one in that state WOULD have voted for him? she is also only counting PR out of all the territories. it is fuzzy math. (to bring up an old chestnut)
AND yes the rest of the world sees us as red-necks. not THE WHOLE WORLD, but in general, people not living in this country WANT to like us, but they hate our president and what we are doing. electing McCain would show them most of the country fits that stereotype. electing Obama would show them we aren’t all insane xenophobes who just want to bomb everyone
in closing YES WE CAN!!! (gives a sneer)
a. price, yes, Hillary wanted a gas tax holiday and wanted the corporations to pay for the windfall profits tax. However, if you read the news yesterday. This was basically the same thing the senate fought for and lost on yesterday against the republicans who claimed like Obama that making the oil companies pay for it would not lessen the price of gas per gallon. So why am I not surprised that Obama is taking the position of the GOP on this one? Because Obama is considered a good friend of the GOP. Many voters believe this as well. This is why they do not want him for president either. Obama is not what everyone believes him to be. His wife sat on many council boards with notable GOPers, like Jon Jeffry Louis III on the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, this is a man who also sits on the board of Gannett News and he is a contributor to the GOP and McCain. He is also from Frey Louis and SC Johnson. So you see, who are we really kidding here? They all sleep with each other when it comes down to business and money. America needs to wake up and smell the coffee and as soon as it does the people will start taking back their government. This is the only thing Hillary supporters are truly guilty of, wanting to take back their country from same old players.
A. Price –
Did you seriously say that Clinton used a fake southern accent? Did you miss the preacher-man voice Obama used in EVERY stump speech? You know, the one that was oddly absent during his race speech, his SF fundraising speech and his ‘I’m stepping down from the church’ speech.
This conversation is inane. The primary is over. Vote for Obama. Vote for McCain. Write in Hillary’s name. I no longer care. I’m through debating this issue. Do what you want. Lord knows, you’ve made up your minds.
The Clintons ARE the same old players. Hillary’s accent AND home town changed with the state she was in. thats fine again ALL POLITICIANS do the same stuff.
i want to take a minute and agree with pandora. it is over. Obama won. either fair and square, or with scary black people communist magic.
I wonder if this motley crew can muster the same vitriol over ….. hot dogs… relish or no. I say relish is the work of Osama bin Laden!
I was ready to work and vote for her. A better and more exciting candidate came along. It is my right to switch. Just as it is yours to get mad and vote for McCain. I just hope you understand that unless you are pro-life, anti gay-marriage, pro war, anti health care, and among the top 1% in the country as far as wealth, you would be voting against your self and against HRC’s ideals. I cant THINK of more of an insult.
*
AGREED
Through all this discusssion in the last few days I have heard both sides and A. Price you are not able to give any specific data to support why we should vote for Obama. He continues to be the mystery man. A fabrication created by the Media. AL Massetti. One would say that the media created him and is probably going to distroy him because he lacks substance. He is not Bill Clinton. This is all to familiar to me. It reminds me of Camelot. The only difference is that Bill and Hillary were geniuses. Give credit where it is due. They were brilliant when it came to going public. There is too much negative press about Obama. I hate to tell you this the media is out to sell papers and news. They are not interested in our problems. We all no that this is the truth. I am voting for McCain or praying that Hillary run as a independent. It won’t happen, but it would sure be nice.
A.Price, the Clintons are not the same old player. The Bushes and Cheneys are. Hillary Clinton has done wonderful things in NY. While she has not been able to achieve everything she set out to do due largely in part because of the Republican administration, she has still done a lot, which is more than I can say for Barry Obama. There is a website run by dems called Chicago against Obama. This is very telling. Hillary Clinton has moderate views, but is still a very progressive thinker in fields of science and education. However, getting to Nancy’s point about pro-life, I do not think that ensuring a woman a right to a late term abortion is warranted under any government. This constitutes infanticide. Obama sides with this and this is why NARAL endorsed him. If a mother’s life is at stake, then it should be considered, but a blanket law on this is horrific.
well, I don’t want to turn this into an abortion debate. However the Clintons HAVE been around almost as long as the most recent Batch of Bushes. (starting with VP HW) they are established players in the Democratic party. I agree that HIllary has done a lot and has not been able to do more because of the republicans. not because of the Obamas. dont you think if you vote for McCain, he would veto every single democratic bill? she’d get even less done.
A. Price as Americans we need to ban together and tell them that we will not take this crap. The DNC and all these political people are making a whole lot of money representing. We have a Right to have who we want to represent us. It is not too late. August and Denver are not too far. Let use make History together and get someone in the White House that gives a Damn.
We can write our congressmen, State senators and make a difference. At least we tried. If not we won’t vote Democratic.
Marie, you have to understand that I am happy with the nominee. Not much you can say will change that. Unless presented with something truly awful that Obama has done, NOT his campaign, or people he has had associations with over the years, I just don’t see changing my mind. I truly believe he DOES give a damn. I think Hillary ALSO gives a damn, which is why he sure as hell better make her someone very important in his administration.
I also agree that we need to band together. War Criminal George W Bush is talking about Iran the EXACT same way he was talking about Iraq in 2002. I am terrified that he and McCain will push for a war with Iran. One that our military is in no shape to fight. Not to say anything negative about the fine men and women who fight and die for this country, there just aren’t enough of them. The though of getting drafted into George Bush’s illegal war is the reason I want to band together. Being able to afford health care is why I wont vote for McCain. Seeing the schools improve and get out from under the horrid failure that left quite a few children behind is the reason I am voting democratic. I refuse to believe that Hillary is closer to McCain than Obama. I refute it. There are more important things going on here than sticking it to the DNC. what if we were in reversed roles and I was threatening to jump ship. if I was saying that McCain is more like Obama than Hillary. the ONLY thing they have in common is a Y chrome’ and the only thing Hillary and McCain have is their skin color. Other than that Hillary is a bleeding heart liberal (dare is say tree hugger) and God love her for it.
The DNC messed up. I’ll admit to that, but only in that they provided no way of knowing who really got the popular vote. you CANT count PR, and you HAVE to count the caucus states, if you count all 50 states who will have electoral votes, (even giving no votes to Obama from michigan) depending on the actual number in the Caucuses, there were something like 2000 votes difference one way or the other. All that means is they are equal.
Sadly, punishing the Democrats will also empower the Republicans. And, I just cant wrap my mind around someone who is such a supporter of HRC, a woman who was attacked much more viciously by the Right Wing Conspiracy than any Axelrod Ad, (she wassnt even in a campaign at the time) thinking the way to do her justice would be to further tie her hands in the senate and give the Republicants MORE time to destroy the country
And honestly, what is the big freakin deal about the flag pin. Can someone really take our country to war, kill thousands of our soldiers, ruin the economy and obliterate our standing in the world, but still be considered patriotic as long as they have a pin on that was probably made in China? This is such a phony nation. There, I said it. We put more emphasis on what someone wears, or even looks like than what they do to make the nation better. Obama DOES wear a flag pin now because too many Americans are too ignorant and shallow to be able to see past something like that. Shame on them. We are so close to sinking back in to McCarthyism it is terrifying.
I respect you honesty. I am also appreciative of the fact that you do realize how the DNC stuck it to Hillary. I hear what you say and do agree more war and more deficit is not what this country needs. I need to know that the candidate is honest and that the candidate respect the rights of all. That we are equal. I know that all politicians are full of themselves and have their own hidden agendas, I thank you.
I am the most cynical and distrustful person of politicians that I know. really only 3 people on the scene seem 100% real to me. Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and HIllary Clinton. And only a handful of politicians in the past. The root of the reason I so fervently support Obama is that he is simply more exciting and represents a bigger movement, that is because since I have been alive, 2 families have pretty much been in control of the country, and while I believe that the Bushes are evil and the Clintons are good, I don’t even think America should be on a 2 PARTY system, much less a 2 family system. Hillary Clinton has a long career ahead of her, and God willing, she stays energetic and healthy for and becomes president at the very least in 2012. I think, that since McCain has a long VEDIO record of contradicting statements, and Obama has very little in that respect, (nothing as bad as opposing the Bush tax cuts, and now wanting to do the same thing, even after seeing what a failure they are) People, KNOWING he is a politician tend to jump to the conclusion that he must be hiding something REALLY bad. “the better they seem, the worse they must really be” I pose the question; what if he really IS authentic? we have had truly great presidents before, and who’s to say we can’t or wont have another one who gets their head carved into a mountain? In all my doubt and cynicism for my country, I still think and want it to be as great as we tell everyone we are. John McCain is NOT the way to do it. I believe Barack Obama is the best. If Hillary is/was BETTER, (which I know some of you still hold to be true) ……. I’ll concede that he is at least a close second, but certainly better then John McCain.
Ah… reason. Wonder if Marie will agree. Good luck, A. Price.
Interesting pov. I have just one issue with it, though – you believe that the Clinton’s are good, you think Hillary is ‘100% real’ and you clearly think she’s qualified to hold the office; however, you think she shouldn’t be president…because her last name is Clinton.
I view Hillary Clinton in much the same way that you view Barack Obama. She may not give her supporters the same high that Obama does, but she is authentic, articulate and extremely intelligent. She garnered as many votes as he did, so it’s a bit odd to constantly hear about how he has inspired a ‘movement’. Her supporters were just as passionate about their candidate as Obama’s – we just carried ourselves differently (just a little less vocal; a little less ‘in your face’). If anything, I would say that BushCo inspired a movement…of Democrats.
I have absolutely no doubt that a President Hillary Clinton would have outshone her husband by leaps and bounds. Regardless of how you look at it, she would have been great for the country. Yet, one of the main arguments against her from Obama and his supporters is that her name is Clinton. It’s almost as though the philosophy is ‘give someone else a chance’ which is kind of like the flip side of the ‘it’s her turn’ attitude Obama supporters (including the media) accused Clinton of having. It is one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard. Think about it – you’re suggesting that an otherwise remarkably qualified candidate should sit it out because of her name; because she is married to a former president (as though somehow it would be bad to have someone with that level of experience around the house).
I’m kind of skeptical about your claim of being cynical and distrustful of politicians. If that were true, you’d be rolling your eyes every time Obama spoke. I think you may be a little more idealistic than you think. That’s not a bad thing; I wish my idealism hadn’t been beaten out of me by years and years and years of empty promises from politicians.
Obama also won the caucus’ which Hillbots refuse to figure in.
Obama always had more money from everywhere when she flagged trying to go grassroots too late thinking that her name, hubby and 100 super delegate start was plenty enough. That made people go to his campaign, Dom., once the field shortened to two.
Obama looked like the smarter campaigner. DEMs needed to choose the person who gave the best odds to prevail in November.
And the momentum is seen in the great numbers of new voters registering to cast a vote for Obama.
Your fixation on personality and fealty may simply be projection of the Hillbots It Is A Woman’s Turn agenda (if I may I say that). Obama is collecting supporters from the other campaigns because of his campaign canny.
First of all, can we chill with the “hillbots” and “obamabots” nonsence?
I, like everyone else liked Obama before it was cool to like Obama… yes I know how that came out, it was intentional.. I’m sure Hillary supporters all have their own personal individual reasons. Now, in response to you Dom. I don’t think Hillary should NEVER be president because she is a Clinton. Just not RIGHT after a Bush, who followed a Clinton, who followed a Bush…. Hillary may be the unlucky victim of circumstance, in that she is married to Bill….. for MANY reasons… the man was a good president, but he is a TOTAL sleaze bag…. But the “give someone else a chance” attitude, at least for ME was born out of the “it’s my turn now” projection from her campaign. I agree with you on that a large amount of the Dem’s support this year is thanks to Bush… may be the ONLY good thing he’s done….. as long as the congress can manage to not mess it up….. I digress….
When the first full list of Dem’s names came out, It was awesome. Not just Obama and HRC, but Biden, Edwards, Dodd… etc than I saw the Republicans. I thought “wow, ANY of the democrats can beat ANY of the Republicans” I mean the fact that chowder-heads like Mitt and HICK-abee won early on shows just how badly that party was damaged. I think John McCain was seen by the RNC as their only hope to get moderates, so the told everyone to fall in line behind him. If the RNC had OUR primary rules, they would probably be in a 3-way battle. …. actually, I’ve lost sight of my point……
Help Hillary in 2016, Vote for Obama 🙂
Once again, I respect your Veiw A. Price. But as for Nancy Willing you keep driving a false belief. Obama campaign was not better than Hillary’s. The media, DNC pushed that idea. And of course, people followed suit. I feel that this is behind now. I respect my candidate too much to continue hammer the idea that she was robbed. McCain and Obama are just fiqure heads that are controlled by their financial backers. Be careful what you wish for. Sometimes it may back fire in your face. I am truly concerned about economics. I want financial stability . I am not concerned about the other bull. What is done is done. Now we have to move to positive outcomes. Thanks.
Well put, Marie.
Obama campaign was not better than Hillary’s.
Yes it was. He won.
End of Thread.
Loser.
Yes, Jason, he trounced her. It was a freaking landslide. He finished with such a commanding lead that the history books will probably refer to it as the most lopsided race in the history of presidential politics.
Child.
“McCain and Obama are just fiqure heads that are controlled by their financial backers. ”
Yes. Please ignore the fact that of the three, HIllary Clinton raised the most from special interests.
Hillarybots: 100% fact free!
Dom –
Guess what. The Patriots won the last SuperBowl. The media just wants you to think that the Giants won because they like the Giants.
Japan won the second world war too. (The media again wants you to think otherwise.)
Stupid media!
C’mon people. This is the King George the Terrible wants.
Hillary Clinton will not be the nominee. She will not be president….. THIS time. I don’t say that to be unkind, or to open myself up to the full wrath of the “Hillbots”, It’s just a statement of fact. How about focusing on 16 years of a Democratic Government. Changing the direction of the economy, fixing education, and re building our foreign relations, … basically un-f*ck everything from the last 8 years. THAT is a positive outcome Marie. Do you think HRC was being untruthful when she endorsed Obama? I’m sure you felt as if she was coerced. Many people do. She still didn’t HAVE to. she COULD run as a third party candidate. She is however a very smart person, and knows Obama is better than McCain.
This fight should be over. There is a much bigger fight with much higher stakes already being waged by the REAL enemy.
(Republican’ts)
You guys are just precious. Don’t worry, no one is claiming that Obama didn’t win. We all know he won. We’ve all accepted that he won. Try to relax, no one is trying to ‘steal’ the victory from the prince.
I know this is just going to sound crazy, crazy, crazy to you, but maybe…and I’m just saying maybe…there are some people (granted, we’re probably all certifiable) who think that maybe…and, again, it’s just a maybe…prince bubble gum will lead us to four years of Carter-esque leadership followed by 12 years of far-right Republican rule (kind of like deja vu all over again). Maybe our decision not to support Obama has NOTHING to do with Hillary and EVERYTHING to do with Obama. Crazy, right?
Um… Bill Clinton was followed by eight years of Republican rule. Could be twelve if enough people feel like you, Dom. Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Crazy, huh?
Dom,
You do not like Obama. WE GET IT!
I call your precious and raise you two tiresomes.
Cripes! Even Rob Foraker can’t make a post get this many comments, as hard as he tries on his own!
Jason,
You love Obama more than life. WE GET IT!
I call your two tiresomes and raise you three hypocrites.
I love the rules here: Obama supporters say how great he is; anyone who dares to disagree should keep their opinions to themselves because it’s, well, tiresome.
PS – 250!!!!
Are you a McCain puppet now? Carter’s second term right? You don’t like Obama, that is fine. I just fail to see why he and Hillary are THAT different. Not considering the pandering (from both of them) of the last 6 months, what separates them? There were debates where all they were debating was who WIN. They praised and agreed with each other for 2 hours… it was boring!
I would argue that Hillary is MORE socialist than Obama on certain issues because she would mandate coverage. Not that I have a problem with socialism mind you, I’m just saying.
I would like to know why McCain is MORE like your first choice. he is opposes a woman’s right to chose, he is anti universal health care, anti gay, pro-war, pro-tax cuts for the mega-rich, … it’s more Republican insanity.
You can say whatever you want. Your opinions are like-able enough……. :p
…sorry couldn’t help it
Tiresome.
Get a life already.
Oh lighten up. Politics are supposed to be fun
Rob Foraker (probably would) says: “Wow, only in my wildest dreams could I think of commenting ad nauseum to this extent on one tired subject! You are my heroes!”
we CLEARLY have nothing better to do
A. – I will answer your question knowing full well that I will be mocked endlessly…again…for it, but here goes…
I just like McCain better than Obama. I don’t care about his stances on the issues, oddly enough, because I know there will likely be a Democratic super-majority to keep things in check. Besides, Obama’s not exactly firm on his stances. He’s already backpedaled on his willingness to meet with rogue leaders and he recently spoke with a completely different tone about his stance on Israel. As the GE approaches, he will move closer and closer to the center…what will all of you do then? Will your opinion of him change?
He has a history of sitting out the more difficult votes.
He’s tied to the nuclear industry and voted in favor of Dick Cheney’s energy bill (even though he’s allegedly not in the pocket of special interests).
He has an interesting history of quid-pro-quo earmarks to his bigger donors.
He’s wishy-washy at best in terms of gay rights and he has no real history of standing up for reproductive rights. In fact, he was going to vote to confirm John Roberts until someone told him it wouldn’t be politically expedient. So, how is he all that much different than McCain – other than his utter lack of experience?
I like McCain’s integrity more than Obama’s. I like his personal history more than Obama’s. I like his leadership ability more than Obama’s. I like his record of bipartisanship more than Obama’s. I trust him to take care of the clusterfuck that is Iraq more than I trust Obama.
I don’t buy into Obama’s humble-pie attitude. I look at him and see someone whose sole purpose is to bask in the limelight. I know they all have that quality to some extent, but I see him as someone completely consumed with his own ego and completely ill-equipped for the job at hand.
When I hear the word ‘audacity’, I think of someone with a state senate record that was fluffed up by a senate president who wanted to give him a leg up to the US senate where he spent only a year before actually thinking he was qualified to run the whole effing country. That’s chutzpah.
I know I’m in the minority here. I know that it’s soooo tiresome to hear dissenting voices. I know that Jason and the gang think he walks on water. I get it. I don’t agree, but I get it. I am not trying to beat a dead horse; I’m simply trying to answer your question.
Let the arrows fly…
Ditto all of that. Plus Obama is black.
Typical Obama supporter. Hide behind his race so you don’t have to see his shortcomings. Yawn.
That was me. I didn’t feel like responding to all your inane rationalizations.
But….
I will bet you $10.00 thatr by the time election day gets here you will have jumped off the McCain bus.
Funny how it’s okay for you to just “like McCain better” and we get chastised for prefering Obama. Geez, Dom, where are you coming from?
‘I know that Jason and the gang think he walks on water. I get it. I don’t agree, but I get it.’
Not true at all. If anything, I’m consistently chastised for not supporting him. I have said over and over and over again that I can see why people are impressed with him. I’m just not.
It just seems so personal. You point out what you don’t like about Obama – fair enough. But when it comes to McCain you don’t defend what he stands for.
You don’t seem to be voting FOR McCain, you’re voting AGAINST Obama. And despite all you’ve written… I’m sensing something more.
She’ll get real about McCain sooner or later. Nobody who supported Clinton for her policies could possibly vote for McCain.
Hi Dominique and Pandora,
Many of us are voting for McCain for one reason. He believes your liberties are given to you by virtue of your birth, not by the government. That is why I am voting for McCain. This is something which resonated with me when he spoke at the CPAC conference earlier this year.
Yes, if you were born rich, McCain’s your man.
If you were born into a military family and got pushed through the military yourself because of it, McCain’s your man.
As I’ve said before, you and Joe Leiberman can have a great time voting for McCain. Just don’t expect an invite to the inauguration.
If it was simply a vote against Obama, I would write in a name or vote for Nader or some other freak candidate. I have had a healthy respect for McCain since 2000. I wasn’t thrilled with his support of Bush in 2004, but I understood why he was doing it. Unlike the Dems, the Republican party rewards loyalty. Sometimes you have to choke back bile and support someone you’d otherwise spit at in order to appease the base. That’s why McCain supported Bush; that’s why Hillary is supporting Barack (though she’s a fool to do it given that the Dems have proven their propensity to shit on her regardless of what she does).
I don’t feel like I have to defend what he stands for. I don’t agree with him on every issue. Frankly, I didn’t agree with Hillary on every issue, either. For me, it’s about the person, not the platform. The platform is just a bunch of empty promises. Has a president ever actually followed through with his platform?
Hi Melissa! I love it when you visit. It gets everyone’s knickers in a twist. 🙂
And so, proving your point, you are going to abandon the Democratic candidate and vote for McCain, despite the bile? And just so we are clear, you support McCain 2008 because you liked McCain 2000?
In that case, I would like to nominate Joe Leiberman as Obama’s VP. That guy kicked ass in 2000.
No, I’m sorry. I wasn’t clear. I’m not saying I would be choking back bile, I’m saying McCain probably choked back bile when he supported Bush and Clinton is probably choking back bile when she supports Barack.
I’m supporting 2008 McCain because I think he is the same guy as he was in 2000. He just had to play the game in order to get the party’s support. Haven’t you ever worked in a corporation before? Haven’t you ever pretended to like a manager for whom you had absolutely no respect? It’s all part of the dance. People compromise their principles in the short term in order to get ahead in the long term. There’s no shame in that.
You see, that’s where we differ. This isn’t some employer. This is the boss. McCain would get my respect if he said what he meant and meant what he said. If your take is that this is some sort of kabuki dance to get out George Bush’s base, then McCain has already lost the thing that made him different than Bush.
You cannot be a maverick and toe the party line. McCain seems to have chosen. I was afraid that once he got the nomination, he would run to the center. Luckily for my team, he ran the wrong way.
Employer, boss, it’s the same concept. It’s all make believe. Yes, he had to compromise the ‘maverick’ thing to get the nomination. Sure, he could have stood his ground and not compromised his principles, but he wouldn’t have gotten the nomination if he had.
He still has a bit of the maverick in him. He stood up and criticized Bush’s handling of the war very early in the process. He acknowledged global warming while members of his party continue to laugh at the idea. He defended Don Imus when everyone else was kicking the shit out of him. He doesn’t sugarcoat and speak in sound bites to the extent that the others do.
I don’t expect you guys to jump on the McCain Train, but I genuinely like him.
“People compromise their principles in the short term in order to get ahead in the long term. There’s no shame in that.”
Speaks volumes.
“He believes your liberties are given to you by virtue of your birth, not by the government.”
It would be hard to formulate an emptier, more inaccurate statement.
Al –
Don’t pretend you haven’t done it. There’s no way in hell you worked for a corporation for 20+ years and didn’t bite your tongue or pretend to respect someone you couldn’t stand for the sake of keeping your job and/or getting promoted.
Please don’t pull that holier-than-thou shit. I really respect your opinion, believe it or not, but when you do that it reminds me of the morons on TNJ site who post comments about their perfect kids on every article about a teenaged criminal or about their perfect driving skills on every article about car accidents. It’s total bullshit. Nobody’s perfect, including you. I can handle snarkiness from you, but I can’t stomach hypocrisy. You’re better than that.
“Don’t pretend you haven’t done it. There’s no way in hell you worked for a corporation for 20+ years and didn’t bite your tongue or pretend to respect someone you couldn’t stand for the sake of keeping your job and/or getting promoted.”
Bite my tongue, yes. Pretend to respect someone, no. Sorry, but I was quite lousy at corporate life. The list of management people I fought with was quite long and damaging to my “career” at The News Journal, and my feud with the editorial board still has repercussions on my broadcasting career. Beyond my first couple of years there, I was promoted precisely once, and that because I finally found someone I respected to work for. He left a month later, and that was the end of my “career” in management.
Of course, a newsroom isn’t exactly like other corporate environments. Dissent isn’t treated as treason; the only time it cost me was when I was in management, which I hated for exactly that reason.
But I wasn’t taking issue with you saying everyone does it. I was taking issue with your proclamation that “there’s no shame in that.” I’m not going to go searching for incidents, but I doubt you’ve been so forgiving when Obama does the same thing you’re excusing in McCain.
Of course, if you truly feel no shame in being two-faced, that — well, speaks volumes.
I’m in awe of your snarkability. Seriously.
I totally forgot to factor in the fact that you’re old-school stubborn Italian. Frankly, I was never much good at the sucking up part during my corporate years. In fact, I vividly remember almost every performance review referring to my ‘non-verbal communication’ (eye rolling) as an issue. Still, I did it when I had to. It goes on every day and those who do it get ahead.
You are absolutely right. I am not as forgiving when Obama does anything, but that’s because I think he is fraudulently representing himself as being different; pure, if you will. As far as I’m concerned, when he decided to look down his nose at all other politicians and package himself and his campaign tactics as practically celestial, he set himself up to be held to a much higher standard.
Now you’re on more solid ground. That packaging was always Obama’s potential Achilles’ heel, which is why Hillary’s campaign went after it — they thought, logically, that once his shiny armor was dirty and dented, his fans would feel betrayed. They haven’t yet, and I’m starting to doubt they ever will.
I think you’re a little younger than me. If so, you don’t remember the Kennedy “Camelot” years. He wasn’t all that great a president, but the younger generation that helped elect him liked the way they saw themselves reflected in his image, so it didn’t matter. Deja vu all over again, IMO. I’m just less worried about the repercussions than you are.
Haven’t you ever worked in a corporation before? Haven’t you ever pretended to like a manager for whom you had absolutely no respect? It’s all part of the dance. People compromise their principles in the short term in order to get ahead in the long term. There’s no shame in that
*
there is nothing but shame in that, creep.
I do hate to think this but your glee here says to me that you don’t give a fuck. Stop wasting everyone’s time pleasuring yourself and call a friend if you need some place to ‘be impish’.
Sick Fuck. A real person is looking at reality.
I don’t know what to say at the typing keys.
If we ever have the misfortune to be in the same room in meatspace, please be gracious and step out of my way. I have a growing contempt for you and you will not like to hear what you have coming.
You crave attention especially negative attention and you seem to think that you are giving as good as you get. But what is true is that you come to this blog and disrespect the good people here and then turn around and pretend as if it is nothing. It is something, Donna Marshall. I have never met such a disingenuous, bipolar freak. You are amusing yourself here at everyone’s expense.
why is everyone getting so angry? Are you afraid that he may lose? Are the polls false? Is the media lying? I tell you Al there is no comparison with Obama and Bill Clinton. This isn’t Camelot. I am probably your age and I remember when the Bill ran and how he went out and reached and connected with the people. It was truly a rainbow coalition. You obama people seem angry. I say that time will tell and the best man will win. Despite the fact the best candidate being a woman is no longer in the race. I the Democratic Party needs to improve it’s image. It is no longer the party it once was. In Delaware it is full of self absorbed individuals who are only interested in their own gain. They lost sight of what they are. Public Servants.
Marie – you have just revealed yourself as a buffoon. Camelot refers to JFK.
Is this the five CDs on a deserted island thread?
It’s around here somewhere…
Marie: Save your concern for someone who cares.
“I tell you Al there is no comparison with Obama and Bill Clinton.”
You’re right. Bill Clinton is a liar, a womanizer and a man whose self-righteousness, anger and sense of entitlement are enormous. And you, apparently, are one of his groupies.
“You obama people seem angry.”
Right. Because we’re the ones who won’t let go of a race our candidate lost. You Clinton people, on the other hand, are the poster children for how to behave — whine, cry, try to move the goalposts, praise the other party’s candidate to slag a fellow Democrat. I know I’ve left some out, but really, have you people Botoxed your sense of hypocrisy? It’s like arguing with conservlicans.
Jesus Christ, Nancy, lighten up. “Growing contempt”? I’d say it’s festered into something completely unhealthy. You sound like you’ve become completely unhinged. Your obsession with me is a little disconcerting.
Your constant bitter attacks lead me to believe that you are the one who longs to be the center of attention, not me. I come here to interact with people in a civil manner. I know that’s a concept that’s completely foreign to you. This will likely come as a bitter disappointment to you, but I was having a conversation with LG and Al; it had nothing to do with you.
Trust me, I wouldn’t come within a mile of you. I prefer to be in the company of people who have a sense of decorum and behave in a civilized manner. If I want to be around animals, I’ll visit a zoo…or call you for a cup of coffee.
“Unlike the Dems, the Republican party rewards loyalty. Sometimes you have to choke back bile and support someone you’d otherwise spit at in order to appease the base.” Dom, What about loyalty to America? If he supported policies he knew to be damaging JUST to gain power, he is the lowest vile piece of crap on the planet, his prior service be damned. Your explanation of his 180* on many of his ideas have only made me fear him more thanks a bunch …. oh, he is senile too. Can’t tell the difference between Sunni and Shiite, can’t tell us who Iran is training, admits to being weak in the economy, compromises his values for power….. he is WORSE than Emperor Bush because at least HE sticks to his twisted principles.
oh, Rsmitty, Dark Side of The Moon, Wheels of Fire, Toys in the Attic, Hot House, and Jimi Blues.
and Al, can I start using that word? “conservlicans” it has a nice stinging ring to it. kinda like how “democrat” has some how become a slur by BushCo against .. well democrats……
A.,
Your reason and logic is futile. She’ll come around as soon as she feels that she is not being made to come around.
My policy on this thread from here out is to ignore it. Once the heat is off, Dom will come to her sense.
As for the other crack pots – they are a lost cause. I get the feeling that that are crazy in ways that we can’t begin to fathom.
A.: Go crazy. I just made it up to cover the people who say they’re not Republicans, they’re conservatives. For the past couple of years, some of my callers have been drawing this distinction, mainly because they can’t stomach W’s plan to treat immigrants better than Guantanamo prisoners.
‘loyalty to America’? Really? Isn’t that a bit over the top? He fell in line with the other Republicans. That’s what they do; they’re a very cohesive group – the Dems could actually learn a lot from them in that regard. Do most of their decisions thrill me? No, but I think they made the decisions they made with the country’s best interest at heart (except the war…I think that Bush/Cheney had an agenda and that congress went along because they were misled at best, lied to at worst). Governing is a kind of like parenting – sometimes you handle things poorly or make the wrong decisions, but you always have your kids’ best interests at heart.
This thread, started in FEBRUARY mind you, has gone soooooooo Rob Foraker.
Okay. I know that I just promised to ignore this thread, but it all suddenly makes sense.
Dom is pretending to like McCain in order to highlighht the abject absurdity of people who claim to favor McCain.
Thank you Dom. You are doing a good thing. Keep fighting the good fight.
Yes, Jason, that’s right. It’s all a big satirical ruse.
When those decisions are wrong time and again, and he falls in line for his own selfish gains, it is even worse than people who are so dumb they blindly agree with Bush because they think he is right all the time. At least THOSE people can do without selling out.
Governing, in out nation is NOT like parenting. We are the bosses. of the, by the. for the.. I see my elected officials as nothing more than employees who’s job it is to make sure I, and everyone else in the country has the best life possible. Bush is a horrible employee, had he shown his level of incompetence at any other job… including burger flipper, he would be fired within a week. We are way too quick to forgive our “leaders” respecting someone just because they hold office is not at all what the founding father had in mind. Not to get too off topic, but if there was a provision to remove the president from office based on a no confidence vote, I think we could avoid ever having someone like this ass hole (Bush) ever again. Back to the angry old man on the front porch with the shot-gun….. John McCain ignored what he knew to be in the best interests of the country once for his own selfish desire for power…. He did it in such a blatant way that he even ran into the arms of Falwell…. what’s to say he wont do it again? He is just like all the other republican scum bags who care more about being re-elected, or elected than what is best for the nation. Look how wonderful almost 8 years of their “leadership” has turned out. I wouldn’t trust these mental-midgets to run a lemonade stand. … by the way do you feel Bush was misled? or that Bush misled… say….. Hillary. just to clear things up.
Good on you Sister!
You tipped you hand a bit with that last comment – but I fully endorse this kind of guerrilla tactic.
What I like BEST about Obama is that he makes people, especially those in my generation, who i usually see as lazy X-box loving apathetic piss-ants, excited and hopeful enough about the country to get the hell up and do something. It happens to a lot of people. You said it…. a president hardly ever delivers on their entire platform. If some for of universal health care gets passed by HILLARY’S second term (2020) I’ll be shocked. happy, but shocked. What a good president CAN do, is inspire a previously uninspired … demographic (s) to participate and imporve things. That is what Obama does… that is what Hillary did… to a lesser extent I would say, but certainly more than anyone else this year. John McCain empowers the status-quo. People who are scared of change, at least the kind that millions of suddenly awakened college students and minorities can bring.
I can tell you that when Obama is elected, if he fails to deliver and does a poor job, I will be such a critic and do a complete 180 on him…. it is the movement, not the man. Think about that and ask yourself … what kind of movement can John McCain bring about…. that DOESNT require him taking a laxative?
oh yeah, screw George W Bush screw him with a non-lubed oil derek
‘Guerilla tactic’ actually made me giggle. you are definitely witty, Jason, I’ll give you that.
A –
‘John McCain ignored what he knew to be in the best interests of the country once for his own selfish desire for power…’
The same could be said for just about every politician – including Barack Obama – at one point or another.
We all want Jimmy Stewart from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, but it’s just not happening. They are all beholden to corporations and special interests. At the end of the day, you choose the person you think is the best (even though, technically, he/she is really just the best of the worst) and hope it all turns out alright. Sometimes we get lucky and they don’t fuck too much up while they’re in office, sometimes we get GWB. It’s kind of a crap shoot.
Oh, my. 300…make that 301. Do I get an ice cream sandwich or something?
it’s a shame you feel like you have such little control over your country. kind of a crap shoot…… why participate at all? if it wont matter why not bring back the monarchy?
I like your spirit, A. I mean that. I wish I shared it. I’ve just never been the type to get caught up in movements (the kind that don’t require laxatives…that was funny). I’m just not the kind of girl that puts a lot of faith in the words of any one person – especially not politicians. I hope I’m wrong about Obama. I really do.
Sometimes I wonder why any of us bother participating. When was the last time a candidate lived up to your expectations? In fact, when was the last time a candidate even came close to living up to half of what you expected from him/her? They’re salespeople. They tell us what we want to hear so we’ll give them money and vote for them. I’ve just gotten to the point where I don’t believe anything that comes out of their mouths. It’s all bullshit.
I was impressed with and inspired by Hillary’s tenacity, not her policies (I wasn’t against her policies, but they weren’t the motivating factor for me). I liked her because she was plucky and she demonstrated unbelievable grace under pressure. My support for her had nothing to do with any promises she was making because, again, that’s just fluff. I kind of see the same qualities in McCain that I did in Hillary. His campaign was completely flatlined in Sept/October. He totally rose from the ashes with virtually no help from anyone. When he ran out of money, he started going to appearances without a huge entourage – I think he even flew coach to many of them. He’s the kind of guy who doesn’t quit, who doesn’t abstain from difficult votes, who doesn’t remove his name from a ballot or choose not to campaign in a state because he has no chance of winning it. He’s plucky. I like that.
well, you seem that type who wouldn’t be afraid to admit it if you were wrong. I certainly hope I’m NOT wrong.
the funny thing is, I think Obama can win, but the Democratic party can still lose.
I would be shocked, if after their failed 2 year stink as the controlling part of the Senate, they kept their majority. I’d sh!t a brick if they GAINED seats. Harry Reid…. what a gutless bastard.
Don’t forget Pelosi. She’s no better. They are the embodiment of what’s wrong with the party: all talk, no action.
i agree to a lesser extent on Pelosi, she has sent SOME bills to the senate and has managed to solidify the House Democrats to an extent. I agree that she has also not performed as well as she should have or promised she would… If Reid was a good leader he wouldn’t need 60 Dems to get stuff through… I think if there was a ballsier leader… say Hillary Clinton….. things would get done. But again I agree. as far as ideals go, the Dems are the big party I’m closest to. Id say if I could vote Green and have it make a difference, I probably would. I’m registered Democrat, but I do it out of want for the lesser evils.
I am going to file this thread under the I really can’t believe people sometimes thread…
liberalgeek. Buffoon. I know that Camelot refers to JFK. But if you remember so was Bill and Hillary pre=election time. How old are you anyway? Get Real.
Al I thought you weren’t going to respond to the Hillary groupies anymore. You are right. Bill is all that you described above and a bag of tricks. But guess what I bet you voted for him in 92, and 96. You probably would voted for him in 2000, if he could run again. You are a party man all the way. Am I right?
No, you’re wrong. I never voted for him. The only major-party candidate I have ever voted for was Al Gore in 2000. I am a Democrat only because I want to vote in primaries.
Bill and Hillary never represented Camelot to anyone but their supporters. Kennedy barely won election but gained in popularity afterwards. By ’94 the Clintons had spent all their political capital. But they were shrewd, and they were probably the best the Democrats could have done in the midst of the conservative delusion we were suffering through. I see no reason to settle for DLC policies with conservatism routed and running for the hills.
Hi Dominique and Hi A. Price. Only these individuals need respond if they choose to.
First of all, I would like to commend A. Price on being so honest and thoughtful in acknowledging that Hillary could actually be a two term president and that if Obama fails to deliver, he would be a strong critic. That took courage! and I am appreciative of the vote of confidence in my candidate. So much thanks. You have renewed my faith. Dominique getting to the heart of what you attempted to convey to some but unfortunately failed to convince them – I do understand that we must all work with those we do not like at some point and convincingly for the sake of keeping our jobs and paying our mortgages must swallow a bit of crap. I agree with this premise. I do not like it, but I have had to take a deep breath and face people at work who in any other given situation I would not give the time of day to. Yes, I think it makes you a stronger person if you can do this. It does show that one can rise above the occassion and focus on the job at hand, which is precisely in line with the political world. As you said, McCain probably did have to choke on some bile to get the nomination. I agree. However, for others to criticize him for this shows hypocrisy. How much did Barack Obama have to choke on to get the full pledge of devotion from not only the DNC, but from Gore, Edwards, Richardson and others who endorsed him. If you all think they are doing so for nothing, then I have a bridge to sell you. Obama has had to do his share of pandering and bile choking like everyone else. So has Hillary and so has every other politician who has ever run for commander in chief. It is called compromise. Anyone who says they have never done it either hasn’t faced severe adversity or just doesn’t give a damn about anything or anyone. Peace.
Melissa, you moron, Obama already had the nomination when Gore endorsed him. And what did it take for Richardson to endorse Clinton first?
Ya know, I’m starting to see a pattern in these would-be Clinton supporters. They are all pessimists. Oh, they may say that they are realists, but that’s what pessimists always say. They are people that have been let down by every politician ever.
I guess that DOES make Hillary the perfect candidate for them…
Why can’t you guys just be nice? I thought that hippies were supposed to be peace lovers.
Melissa simply articulated what I was trying to say in a much more eloquent way that I did. Jeez. I don’t doubt for a second that a deal was cut between Obama and Richardson. If Obama is the man he claims to be (you know, ‘not the same-old Washington politician’), that alone would have him choking back bile. How do you think he felt when he had to compliment Hillary in the debates? Yummy bile once again. C’mon, guys, now you’re just being silly. We all do it, they all do it, it’s ok.
Al –
‘Bill and Hillary never represented Camelot to anyone but their supporters. ‘
This may be true; however, the media did describe them that way during the 1992 election and beyond (remember all of photo ops boating with the Kennedy family?). Frankly, the same statement holds true for Barack and Michelle.
I’m beginning to think that the media will describe any candidate in their 40’s as the next ‘Camelot’. It’s pathetic how desperate our country (media) is to relive the Kennedy years. I wish they’d get the hell over it; that dream ended when JFK, Jr’s plane went down.
DHB – I’m secretly hoping this thread will hit 1,000. 🙂
LG, Melissa isn’t a moron. She disagrees with you. Stop acting like a Republican. Gore didn’t HAVE to endorse Obama. He didn’t REALLY endorse Kerry…he supported him, but he didn’t raise money on his website for him. AND Obama doesn’t have the nomination until the convention.
Frankly, and I think it would be the same if Hillary had gotten the nomination, all the big names pretty much HAVE to endorse Obama in order to unite the party. I think the media coverage of how divided the Dems were became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have found the media coverage this year sickening. There has been zero objectivity and as divisive as I saw the Clinton campaign, or as some of you saw Obama’s, the real people causing problems were the “journalists” .. sadly the only one with integrity passed away. (Tim Russert)
Melissa, thank you, but I don’t feel as if saying I would hold Obama accountable took any courage… it’s what we should all be doing with politicians we like. Or dislike. Again, they are our employees. Love the game not the player….. or something…
No, she is a moron. She disagrees with me because she is a moron. Please stop being a prude.
Melissa came here and picked a fight on a thread that hadn’t been touched for months. I suspect that she expected that she could simply drop her comment here and it would sit out here unchallenged.
No, LG, a fight was exactly what she was looking for. If she wasn’t, she wouldn’t have posted so many blatant falsehoods.
Perhaps… So now we know what you do on the breaks. Give my best to Dana.
Hey, I try to check all the news sources. Why wouldn’t I check here?
Thanks, you helped inspire the things-to-do list.
Liberal Geek, if you read my post accurately, I clearly indicated that all politicians have had to choke on bile in order to get the job done. You are obviously as inept at reading as Al Mascitti is. I did not single out Barack Obama. So why are you getting your panties twisted in a knot? Also, we know that Bill Clinton spent time trying to woo Richardson and that at first it was believed that he would endorse Hillary. Yes, we know this, but we also know that as many in the media have even tried to suggest Obama may have offered him a sweeter deal, which he continues to deny all while not being able to keep a straight face. This is why James Carville referred to him as Judas Iscariot. Also, people were upset that after Hillary won the state of New Mexico , albeit by a slim margin that he turned around and endorsed Obama after it was alleged that he made the statement that the super delegates should follow the will of the people. Now he may have promised Gore to have certain legislation passed regarding the climate and environment or he may have promised Edwards that he would push his health care plan. But again, if you really believe that these individuals endorse merely because the DNC sings “Cumbaya” you are not only too idealistic, but you will set yourself up for much disappointment in life. No one does anything for free, except one’s parents and even then there exist some rotten apples.
Oh, and btw if you feel I came here to pick a fight, I am so flattered. While this was sincerely not my intention-and only I know my true intentions unless you all want to play Father Pfleger and channel my mind- it is good to know that I, like Obama have inspired so many to challenge each others belief systems. This is what people should be doing on these sites, not agreeing 100% with each other. What do you want to be freakin’ robots? Everyone can disagree or some can agree, but it will be a scary day in the world when everyone decides to say, “Yes, I believe that or yes, I agree.” On a personal note I am quite proud to know that my spouse is not a yes man. I despise and disrespect men who are. However, in the course of the disagreement, we should all watch the language we use and keep the disagreements civil.
So it’s Obama-Edwards for ’08…because you have to hit rock bottom before you can begin the process of recovery.
You people are still here?
“I am here for the very reason all Clinton supporters are flooding every website relating to super delegates and Obama. We have one clear mission and that is to make sure people start getting the real truth. ”
That was your story the first night you came here. The “real truth” turned out not to be the redundancy it seems, but a euphemism for “lies.”
“only I know my true intentions”
That’s you today. Which is it? Was your stated intention not the “real truth”?
Don’t bother answering. You’re caught in credibility quicksand — the more you thrash about, the deeper you sink. You have neither credibility nor, with the release of poll results today, a reasonable argument.
OK, this is a gag, right? Somewhere, someway, one of these commenters is going to admit they are really Rob Foraker, right?
Bueller? Bueller?
Polls, polls, polls, puhlease! As for my reasons or truths only you Al Mascitti seem to have a problem with my truths or as they are truths which have also been reported by the papers and media in NYC. Now, you may not agree with these, but they came from sources other than my brain. As for my credibility, I am not seeking your approval. Yes, I feel the truth should come out. One of those is that the media and press have been behaving extremely sexist, a fact to which Michelle Obama outright admitted on national television today. She also admitted that there was racism by the media as well. I will also admit this was true. Now are you going to have the brass cojones to say it did not exist? I never posted “so many blatant falsehoods.” You choose for them to be untrue in your pea-sized brain. God forbid anyone else has a valid opinion, OH NO!! Al Mascitti has to be the only voice of “real truth” on this website. You are part of the problem with the press and media. There will be equality for all when people like you are completely retired from these positions of power, deranging the minds of impressionable people.
“There will be equality for all when people like you are completely retired from these positions of power, deranging the minds of impressionable people.”
That’s touching, considering that for you, the warning came too late. And to think that such ungrammatical drivel comes from someone who earned a higher degree. Why, it’s almost … deranging.
I think I’m gonna step off the Merry-go-round for a while heh. Al, you should have Melissa on the show and just duke it out.
C’mon! You can’t quit now! We’re up to 330!!!!
what are we goin for? 1000? sigh.. O.K here we go. Hillary is an ice queen, Obama is a secret Muslim, McCain is old, Al is a hack, Melissa is crazy, and the rest of you suck
let it roll!!
A. Price, you are priceless! You gave me a tremendous laugh. Thanks.
Yo! Michelle Obama gotta softer image today. What did you all think? The View sucks as far as I am concern. Why does Michelle need a softer image?
Al Massetti don’t be a loose cannon. I am bracking myself for your attack.
Good Night see you in the morning. I can’t wait to see your responses. I am sure they will be full of crap. I want to know what was going do at Trinity for 20 years. Perhaps Al you can enlighten us all.
I love Michelle Obama. I understand she needs “softer image” so she stops scaring dumb white people (I’m white). She runs the risk of getting branded as a Black Panther. the “whitey” tape rumors are already around…. may I just take a moment to say, Rush is a freaking ass hole. But as long as potential first ladies are fair game…..
Cindy McCain is the most vicious looking bitch on the planet. I mean seriously, her cold icy eyes make me want to cry, kill myself, and beg for forgiveness from her for some unknown reason. She seems like they type of rich old white lady who would call INS on the entire family of her hired help for not dusting the fireplace in the room they never use well enough. She steals from Betty Crocker…. I wonder if she has ever cooked a day in her life…. ugh.
You always manage to reach a new level A. Price. See how you men see women. Accessories. Cooks Not contributor of this world. If you are smart you must be an ice princess. If you are outspoken you are nuts etc…..wow one step forward for the black man three steps back for women. That is what this election year has meant for women. I am angry about this whole situation. I can’t wait to see how Nancy Willing responds she confirms my views entirely.
I can’t stand that show, but I taped it yesterday to see how she would do. She definitely went out of her way to appear meek and vapid, but to me it seemed like she was not comfortable doing it (nor should she have been). She came across as quite normal if ‘normal’ means that you are a quiet, reserved, non-threatening woman…like empty-headed Laura Bush. She even talked about how much she admires the way Laura handles herself. Gag. A woman like Michelle Obama (strong, successful, sharp-minded, opinionated) would not be impressed with a woman like Laura Bush. It kind of made my skin crawl to hear her say that, but overall she did pretty well in terms of accomplishing the goal to soften her image.
It really bothers me that she has to make any effort to soften her image. She is a strong, assertive, sometimes abrasive woman. Why does our country have such a hard time handling that? She is who she is, she shouldn’t have to sugarcoat it so that people in the midwest aren’t scared of her. And, for the record, I don’t think it’s because she’s black; she’s running into the exact same problems HRC encountered in 1992. Has our country not moved an inch forward in 16 years???
A –
I kind of agree with you about Cindy McCain (sorry, Marie). She reminds me a little bit of a manequin. I have never really heard her speak at length, so I don’t know how intelligent or passionate she is. She may be a genius with a great sense of humor and a winning personality, for all I know. That said, I can’t believe someone with that kind of money has a stylist who would allow her to walk around with that Barbie-blond hair. If her hair wasn’t so light, her eyes would look less scary – in fact, they’d probably look quite beautiful and she would look less…well, plastic.
Again, I am only commenting on her physical appearance because I haven’t really had an opportunity to hear her speak. God knows physical appearance shouldn’t matter, but there’s no denying that appearing warm, friendly and approachable would benefit both of the candidates and their wives.
Dom, I think the reason people focus on Cindy McCain’s appearance is because she obviously works so hard at it. It’s sorta like the way we talk about Michael jackson.
“I want to know what was going do at Trinity for 20 years. Perhaps Al you can enlighten us all.”
I have no idea, and I don’t care. Black people resent white people? Knock me over with a feather. I also don’t care about candidates’ wives, with the exception of the Clintons, since they made such a big deal of being a 2-for-1 package.
First of all Marie, you should have noticed that when i called Hillary an Ice Queen, i also called Barack a secret Muslim.. it was a joke. (duh) secondly, how else am i supposed to describe Cindy McCain. I was taking a shot a at a first lady because it is fair game…. like calling Michelle a racist black power radical. And by the way… to all the other women on the thread.. do you ALL see one step forward for black men as 3 steps back for all of you? that would be quite a racist shame. Marie you are lumping all women together based on what one woman (you) thinks. Are you all mindless drones who think what every other woman thinks because you are supposed to? Or, are you all individual thinkers who exert your right to choose who you support? Cindy McCain looks and acts how women “were supposed to” look and act in the 50s she is a very scary person. When i said she looks like the type of lady who ……. I said that because (get ready, this is a shocker….. ) she is a LADY.
… reach a new level… marie doll, if you think THAT was offensive, you haven’t seen anything yet.
well Dom, looks like I couldn’t stay off the ride for long haha. btw, don’t worry anyone. Im not gonna go all male pig just to prove a point to Marie.
and one more thing. Cindy paints HERSELF as an “in the kitchen slave”. She publishes recipes online. (steals them) cooking tips? really? THAT is sexist. why aren’t you outraged at other women’s behavior when they act like stereotypes? don’t get your panties in a bunch just because I point it out.
“Has our country not moved an inch forward in 16 years?” No, Dominique it has not which is why Hillary Clinton encountered sexism to the likes of “pimpin her daughter Chelsea”, “Hillary wouldn’t be here today, if not for her husband”, “Mrs. Clinton”, and others too stupid to mention. This senator has sponsored and /or co-sponsored over a billion dollars in legislation on behalf of our nation’s children and these creeps in the media do not even have the decency to address her by her professional name. Now, Matthew Broderick, the jerk, has the nerve to say on ” The View” to Michelle Obama that his 5 year old likes Obama because he likes the man to beat the lady. WTF is going on in the American households today. When I grew up my father taught me and my sisters that we were to get an education and follow a career path, then get married. This way if anything happened, we would always have an education and job and be able to count on that. We would have options whether to stay or leave a marriage if problems arose. My father taught us to have self-respect and self-worth. What animals are raising these men working in the media and in Hollywood? I am so disgusted. I am convinced more than ever that parents need training in child rearing and education. Otherwise, the divide between men and women will continue to worsen and we will end up despising each other.
I was under the impression we already do… Don’t ALL WOMEN feel wronged by ALL BLACKS? Marie seems to think so. OH BY THE WAY
Barack Obama, keep your f*ck!ng promises! Use public financing! I didn’t donate money to your campaign and drink your kool-aid just to see you go back on you word!
Don’t be a dummy price. The small donors (like you) that Obama has put together is in itself a campaign financing revolution.
He is kicking McCains ass fair and square – you’ve been listening to too much talk radio is you think otherwise.
McCain is already cheating raising millions from lobbyists and you want Obama to fight with one hand tied behind his back…? That’s stupid.
If Kerry had not fallen for the “matching funds” scam he would be president right now.
OMG, there it is again – fair and square. Jesus, you sound like a kid.
I think Price’s point is that Obama originally promised to use public financing and is going back on his word because he probably never dreamed he would be able to raise the amount of money he has. Frankly, if he was sure enough of himself as a candidate, he wouldn’t have to outspend his opponent 2- or 3-1 to win. Just sayin’. Can’t say I blame him – do whatever it takes to win, right?…oh, wait, that was Hillary. Scratch that. Obama was the one who was supposed to be true to his word. Wow. Who saw that coming?
fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square, fair and square,
Jason, you’re precious. You think he’s decided to opt out of public financing because McCain’s raising ‘millions from lobbyists’. Bless your heart. McCain can’t raise money – isn’t that the headline?
Stop making excuses for the O-man. He’s going back on his word and spinning it like a top. Maybe because he’s…a politician. Like the rest of them. As I’ve been saying for months. Months. No different.
Bottom Line: If Hillary Clinton was half as smart as Obama she’d be the nominee. This was a great move.
Hillary peopel are going to hate him as long as he is not her and that is too bad.
Now I return to ignoring this thread and Dom’s lunatic ravings.
Matthew Broderick? Now we’re getting deep political insights from Ferris f@#king Bueller??? I guess it’s more of that “See, I like the black guy and that says a lot about how enlightened I am. Oh, and I bought a Prius, too.”
(Come on 500 posts. Is there a pool for this thread I can get in on?)
That’s right, Jason, change the subject and attack Hillary when you don’t have an answer. Shocker.
Shun on!
Funny you mentioned Ferris Bueller, as I was going to pull another reference to that movie…
[after the end credits] … You’re still here? It’s over!
In all the name that is Rob Foraker…let the thread die!!!
Wait, Marie… your Dad actually added marriage to your to do list? Mine told me I didn’t have to marry to lead a fulfilling life.
And Obama never agreed to public financing. He said that he would discuss it with McCain. Discuss, not commit. Personally, I am thrilled he’s tossed this idea. It’s about time we had a Dem who keeps his eye on the ball.
BTW, after Obama wins in Nov. I fully intend on holding his feet to the fire. AFTER HE WINS. Got that? I’ve learned my lesson with Gore and Kerry. Have you?
Have a heart Smitty. The gerbil brained Hillary fans can’t get off the little wheel.
oops! Melissa. I have trouble keeping you guys straight. Hmmm… I wonder why?
P – I think he originally said he would opt for public financing, then backpedaled to ‘thinking about it’ when he was raising tons of money during the primaries. Now he’s nixed the idea altogether. Again, I don’t blame him, but it was a smarmy move befitting of a politician.
Oh, and my dad said if I didn’t get married by my 25th birthday he wouldn’t pay for my wedding (I made it with three months to spare). That’s what happens when your parents are Italian immigrants. If you’re not married by 25, you’re either a spinster or a lesbian and they’re considered equally bad options.
Look, with all these frustrated baby-machines and racists (I’m still trying to offend Marie) Obama has to do everything to a T. I agree he said he would stay away from public financing because he didn’t want the perception that his presidency was bought by the mega-rich special interests that would have bough the Chick’s campaign. He instead got thousands of small donations, and it is a truly wonderful revolution. HOWEVER (comma) He made a commitment and he should honor it. I still think he is the best candidate I have, or will ever see. Don’t worry my fellow brothers in Obamadom (cause none of us are women, just ask Marie) He’s still the man. He just needs to stick to his very honorable guns
I hope you married for love and not money :-).
I myself would be embarrassed to admit that I cheapened myself bend to such an edict, especially for a buck. But then, there is a humor gap between our cultural mores so perhaps you are only kidding. heh.
/expecting a hissy fit and haughty denounciation
Careful, Dom. I’m Italian as well. Italian was spoken by my relatives and my parents are first generation. My Dad was very revolutionary – remind me to tell you who is one day. In fact, I can honestly say that my self-esteem and belief in myself as a woman stem from my father.
Melissa gets on my nerves. Her entire rant focuses on “victimhood”. In an earlier post she cites her husband as an example of her strength, then “praises” her father for adding marriage to her “list” after her education.
Funny, I don’t mention marriage in the same breath as education with my daughter. Not that I’m anti-marriage, rather I view them separately. In my book – and my father’s – there was no link between the two. As it should be.
No hissy fit, but I’m not kidding. I wish I was. The pressure to get married was unbelievable (we had been living together for a couple of years). Al will probably understand what I’m talking about.
I married for love. Jack and I made a combined $30K/year when we got married and no amount of money invested in a wedding was going to change that. My parents ended up spending an inordinate amount on our wedding, but it was really their party. We didn’t even know most of the guests.
I married for land
I really love my husband, but I’ve told my daughter not to consider marriage until she’s at least 30, if at all.
A – that made me cackle. I hope it was at least an acre of oceanfront property. 🙂
And your advice to your daughter is why I love you, Dom. BTW, we are sitting on my front porch drinking wine tonight. Interested? If so, email me. I’m gone tomorrow!
oh man, thats just what this thread needs. A good interjection of alcohol inspired postings.
have I mentioned today that John McCain is a senile war-monger?
and he wears Depends
P – I met with a client tonight (hopefully my last; I’m finally getting out of this miserable industry) and I didn’t get in until about 20 minutes ago. I’m sorry I missed the wine.
I hope its safe to assume that you will still have internet access at the beach (thank you baby jesus for the laptop). I will hunt you down like an animal if we make it down there over the next couple of months. As of now, our house isn’t rented the week of July 5-12, so if I can manage to avoid getting a job between now and then we may finally get a chance to meet in person. 🙂
Pandora, I am not Marie. Get it straight already. Also, I do not give a f–k if I get on your nerves. Your inane pettiness gets on mine and quite a few others around here. Also, by “then get married” I mean after you are educated and follow your career then you can decide/think about marriage, not literally get married. You guys read too much into what we post (nitpickers, the bunch of you). Also, I agree with A. Price- Obama should have accepted the public finance money. I was watching Judy Woodruff’s coverage of this tonight on PBS and all is not lost for McCain. He can still gain a sizable portion for his campaign from the RNC, who last known has raised a heck of a lot more than the DNC who was short 15million for the convention as reported by David Shuster(Msnbc). There may be other reasons Obama is not accepting the campaign finance money. He may have to pay a portion toward the convention since they are short. Also, while both swore off help from 527 groups, they still can be aided by them, without their consent. So as I said all is not lost. However, Obama did find a loop hole with denying the campaign finance money. Also, it is alleged that it wasn’t Obama, but his campaign advisors who pushed him into breaking his promise. Nevertheless, it still doesn’t reflect that great on him-for now. I’m sure the media will forgive their little darling very quickly.
Hot damn, I’m at the beach the weekend of the 4th and planning to drink with Pandora… That could be a fun time…
Very quickly? They’ve probably already found a way to blame Hillary for his original point of view and begun salivating over yet another brilliant strategic move on his part to foil yet another one of her sinister plots. She’ll do ANYTHING to win, you know. 😉
A. Price, you are funny, but please cut out the age discrimination. My dad is a couple of months older than McCain and is very physically fit-goes to the gym every night. His mental capacity is intact. So I get a little sensitive about this. If you want to attack McCain’s policies, then I say go for it. But older Americans have a lot to contribute to this country. Take a gander at the Warren Buffets of the world, he is not a bad person, is he. He is older, rich and philanthropic. He is still boss. All candidates make mistakes. If we pick on McCain’s age, then we have to pick on the fact that Obama at 46? said there were 57 states with two to go. Now we all know what he meant. But some have actually alleged he was using coke again. My point is lets keep it positive and in perspective-based on the issues and policies. But you are funny.
Hi, Dominique, I agree, they will definitely try to blame Hillary for Obama’s change of heart on the campaign finance money. Bummer! Just when she thought the magnifying glass had been removed, this happens. Although, Dom. She is appearing with him this week at a fund raiser, so could there be a possibility she did have a hand in this? We shall see..
Oh, Melissa, bless your heart. You’re about to get pummeled.
Just to bring you up to speed, A. Price, Al, Pandora and liberalgeek (usually) are the only ones who are even willing to admit that Obama is human (tho, I think that they may secretly believe there is a chance he has superpowers). The rest will begin to attack you in the next couple of minutes simply because you said that people had alleged that he was using coke again. I hope your Kevlar is strapped on. 🙂
BTW, on the news tonight on PBS it was reported that congress okayed more financing to fund the war in Iraq. I thought the majority of Americans were against this. I thought the Democrats were against perpetuating the war. None of you have mentioned this and it seems to me that it is hypocritical of them to blame Hillary Clinton and attack her for her vote to give the inspectors time to go back into Iraq(war vote) and now they are giving even more money. Can someone please explain this to me because I am very irate right now. And please do not begin by telling me the surge is working. Hillary said we needed to cut off the gravy train, why are they pouring more gravy on top?
I never said he used coke. I don’t think he did. Yes, he is human. On cafe press they sold a 57 state Obama button. I did not invent it. I say bring it on! I can take it.
I don’t know how liberal you people are, but if you want some actual anti-Obama ammunition, check out Glenn Greenwald’s blog at Salon.com.
Dom,
Ask Matt to email me.
Like I said he is inexperienced and an unknown who wants to be president. What a joke. He is riding on the coat tails of Democrats who have worked the system. He dirty politics all the way. I don’t trust obama. He flips. He is easily manipulated by his campaign. Hungry power seeking individuals. Go ahead give him the keys. Look at the city of Wilmington. A city government serving itself not the constituents it is suppose to serve. Getting a fast buck without doing a thing for it. Everyone is getting fat. Really I know. I live in the city and have real Estate in the City. You want to know who suffers the tenants. Bottom line. Have a great morning.
So Marie, exactly what does Obama have in common with Mayor Baker? Hmmm?
I fear you may be busted.
She sees black people.
Hot damn, I’m at the beach the weekend of the 4th and planning to drink with Pandora… That could be a fun time…
Hot damn! Me, too!!! Now, how many beaches can there be on the East Coast? We should be able to find each other!!!
Has Foraker joined this thread yet? It’s his kind of ad nauseum approach!
Smitty, consider yourself invited! Hint: I’ll be at the last beach in Delaware.
This thread is nuts.
Smitty, I made the same observation a week ago. Even some of the comments are Foraker-ish.
We are converging on Fenwick.
Geekdude….all I can say is….pizza in 30 minutes or less. Obsessed comments in 90 days or more, although the grammar is a bit too improved to be Foraker’s. Maybe a supporter, which is a head slapper, but I guess it’s possible.
Unfortunately, I was half-kidding on the beach thing. Yes, I will be at a beach, but not up here. Going just south of VA Beach this year. The trip was planned well before $4/gal gas, so it’s gonna hurt a little.
Marie: There’s a big difference between citing specific problems and a blanket dismissal of the candidate. The Greenwald blog highlights his disappointing reaction to efforts to derail telecom amnesty. That’s a real problem. “He is dirty politics all the way” is not.
Is this thread turning into a beach party? that would be DUCKY! Marie…… never mind. It’s not worth it anymore. I hope your life thrives (even if it is already good) when Obama is president. He IS going to win. Up by 12 points in PA where he apparently offended all the white people. Do you REALLY want to be right about all this crap you are spewing?
but again i say INSANE THREAD BEACH PARTY!!!!!!! we’ll know who the Hillary Hard Core are…. they will be the ones with their heads in the sand
McCain is old
Al –
Thank you for the tip on the Salon article. I can’t tell you how much I truly appreciate your ability to stand back and look at things with a critical eye in spite of your support for a candidate. It is a level of intellectual honesty that is sorely lacking in the blogosphere.
In case the rest of you missed it, here’s the link.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/19/obama/index.html
Dom: I support Obama, but I am not one of the converted. His support of a Blue Dog over a liberal in that Georgia district illustrates your point: Pay attention to his deeds, not his words.
It is a level of intellectual honesty that is sorely lacking in the blogosphere.
So is your face.
So funny.
What did you think of the article, Jason? I’d be interested in hearing the spin you’re going to put on it.
I might read it….no time right now…must worship at the Obama alter…pray towards mecca…hate on whitey…etc….
Here’s honesty… I fully intend on holding Obama accountable after he wins in November. BTW, I would have granted HRC the same courtesy. Intellectual honesty? How’d that work for Gore and Kerry?
Here’s what I do know… Obama is a million times better than McCain. Does that mean I approve of all things Obama? Of course not. What it means is that this entire conversation is for naught if Obama doesn’t win.
That’s where I’m coming from. Others may feel differently. I learned my lesson four years ago, and still feel guilty over all that “intellectual honesty” I threw in Kerry’s direction. Look where that “fairness” got us.
So now Dom is down on Obama becuase he supported whitey vs. one of the upitty you know whats.
You should be happy, Dom. What gives?
PS. Go soak your head.
Now I return to ignoring this thread FOREVER!
PPS. Please ask Mat to email me.
Pandora,
Don’t take the bait. Dom just wants to blow shot up because Hillary lost.
400!
Jason –
Again with the race thing. I guess it’s best that you gloss over the main issue lest you find yourself in a position to have to admit that he’s a big freaking hypocrite. Oh, and a flip-flopping, promise-breaking liar AND he thinks all of you guys are stupid enough to believe anything he says so he put out a cute little video that claims he’s opting out of public financing because ‘the system is broken’ (I especially loved the sad eyes and the Serious Barack tone of voice he used). Umm…the system hasn’t changed an iota since he originally said he wouldn’t opt out of it. Kudos to him, tho, for being able to keep a straight face on camera. I wonder how many takes it took.
PS – Check your email, I think he sent you one this morning (unless he has an incorrect email address). Get my email from Pandora or LG and I’ll send you his if you need it. 🙂
Liberalgeek, busted of what? You don’t know anything about me. I feel that Obama has his agenda and I don’t buy it. He flips and he will be in over his head. We will end up paying for his inexperience. It has nothing to do with white or black. How little you can read people. I don’t buy it. Most of the people I associate with support obama. My opinion of them has not changed. I still have a good relationship with them and most of them are black. You my friend are out of line. I also happen to know Mayor Baker Personally.
This is the thread that keeps giving. Keep it up!
My take on the financing is that Obama knows how to hedge his bets. We all know the GOPer Machiner has used 527s to do the filthiest work possible, work that no campaign would stand behind.
Sure there aren’t any out yet but there will be plenty.
Why should the DEM nominee bow to what was the stated “we’ll talk public financing” promise. Obama is talking and the word is: tough shit McCain.
What is much more worrisome is the FISA compromise. The first look this turn around tells me that once Obama takes office, he can’t afford to have crossed his party’s leadership with a stand against them on FISA.
He is lining up ducks.
The majority of the Congress is culpable for what FISA abuse went on from Pelosi to Reid to Rockefeller to Clinton. To alienate and essentially abandon the interests of congressional self preservation here will not help get Obama into the White House. The numbers are too close. We can’t afford a third Bush term.
Atrios having given Obama the Wanker of the Day status yesterday was appropriate. He is caving and he needs to know that the left will not tolerate policy that continues to undermine the Constitution but we also know that to get elected and keep his Congress, he probably had to do what he did. Olberman made some noises about the language having some wiggle room to make the necessary adjustments to the law once DEMs have secured the balance of power next year.
I threw in Kerry’s direction. Look where that “fairness” got us.
*
WORD
P: “I fully intend on holding Obama accountable after he wins in November.”
On this issue, that’s too late.
M: “I also happen to know Mayor Baker Personally.”
Please accept my condolences.
The hypocrisy here is almost funny.
‘the GOPer Machiner has used 527s to do the filthiest work possible’
Umm…ever heard of MoveOn, the bottomless pit of cash? How about the new ad that’s being run every 15 effing minutes – you know, the one with the woman holding the sweet little baby (Alex?) and telling McCain he can’t have him for his 100 year war? This coming from the crew that was so horrified that Hillary Clinton would use ‘fear tactics’ in her 3am ad. Puhlease.
‘but we also know that to get elected and keep his Congress, he probably had to do what he did.’
Gee, I don’t remember anyone being so gracious about Hillary’s vote for the war which could just as easily have been viewed as a politically expedient vote cast by a woman who planned to run for president and didn’t want to appear weak on terror. Of course, if HRC did something politically expedient the cries would have risen from the canyons…She’ll Do Anything To Win!
Believe it or not, Nancy, I’m not trying to pick on you. Any of the other Obama supporters on this site could very easily have posted a variation of the same comment; you just happened to beat them to the punch.
I know none of you give a shit about earning respect from HRC supporters and I totally understand where you’re coming from, but the constant minimization and excuse-making is exactly why you’ve been mocked for months for being zombies/robots/hypnotized, etc.
Okay, I have answered this point several times which states my pragmatism about this issue. So, I have decided to change the subject.
You see, Dom, I’m sitting on my deck staring out over the bay with a glass of wine in hand… so did you rent your place or will you be down in July? Now that’s an important question!
BTW, one day on my “Red State” block and you’ll be begging to vote for Obama. 🙂
Email me and let me know your plans.
D”Nique, I have written two posts that reflect the disappointment and pressure that we should keep on our reps. Try saving your retorts for someone who isn’t interested in challenging this horrible compromise.
Obama has promised to try to take the immunity provision out of the bill when it gets to the senate. If he is successful, will you still be such a mouthy asshole or will you give him some credit? I wonder.
The folks at Eschaton are calling for Clinton to put her convictions to the test and lead a filibuster in the Senate.
“Hillary probably will not strongly go against Obama, the leader the Democratic Party. Though I strongly wish she would. If nothing else, it would be perceived as sour grapes. Maybe Dodd should take the lead on this one.
qlª ”
Though I strongly wish she would. If nothing else, it would be perceived as sour grapes.
If she would go in and lead a filibuster against the immunity provisions that would be leadership and wouldn’t be going against Obama.
I would applaud her.
Nothing wrong with her asserting a little leadership in the senate.
fourlegsgood,
D’Nique, where is Hillary on this? Why don’t you email your grrrl and ask her to show some backbone? Huh?
Try to keep me out of your broad brush swathes, please. I haven’t been down on Hillary for the war vote. I have always been down on the Clintons for their centrist sell out to global interests in the form of support and successful lobby of NAFTA and drawing China into the WTO which made their bestest friends, the Wal-Mart Arkansas Walton’s uber billionaires.
I thought you knew that.
Hey Pandora, you lucky duck! I am waiting for the sun to recede before cutting the lawn.
My friend Leann is down at Broadkill every year with out the internet. I guess you don’t think of this as work 🙂
I’m slaving away here in Fenwick, Nancy! It’s hard work, but somebody has to do it! Besides, I’m ensconced in “red” country. My Obama lawn sign and bumper sticker are already creating quite a stir. Alas, I am up to the task.
Nancy – Circle today’s date on your calendar: I read your other posts. You’re right; I apologize.
To be honest, as much as I would hope that HRC would lead a filibuster, as the leader of the Dem party, it really should be Obama that leads the charge. That said, I would welcome any of the spineless Dems to stand up to this atrocity. Isn’t it odd that the Democrat that probably has the weakest physical stature (Kucinich) is the most fearless of the bunch?
On a related note, I have given Obama credit in the past. I gave him props on his race speech and shared that I had watched it three times and cried each time. I also protested that Michelle should have to appear on The View to ‘soften her image’. I will admit that I don’t have a lot of positive thoughts about him, but I am not opposed to sharing the few that pop up from time to time. 😉
Daaaaaayyyyyyyyyyum. Date noted 🙂
Al Massetti. How are you holding our local politician’s accountable. You must know obama personally? I want economic security for our country and for the working class people of this country. I am sick of the politician who is self serving. I am a public servant and believe I serve my clients well. I work hard for the people I serve and the company I work for. Unlike the local government who doesn’t serve and doesn’t work hard. I will not elect an individual for popularity. Lets look at things as they are in Delaware. We now how Joe Biden’s son feels that he is entitled to be Senator because his father is Senator. Who has he served and what work has he done to deserve such a position. Same is true for Obama. He didn’t even work as a Senator this last two year in order to avoid showing any commitment to anything. Boy that you really know your candidate and you will really hold him accountable. There is one thing I know about Obama is that he is very smart and he is the rock star of politics now and we the American people will pay a heavy price for his status. Still though I have not lost sight, I know that every morning I will get up and go to work and continue to do the positive work I do without interference. I will keep it on a positive and as far as me being prejudice, please 75 percent of the people I serve are black and I would like you to ask them personally if I am. On Meet the press, Biden is not interested in Vice President. I wonder who is interested? The DNC never had a true interest in having a Democrat in the White House. Their objective was not having Hillary. So as far as not having a 3rd term for Bush, you may end up with one anyway. I have learned to live with the Republicans and feel that they are a necessary evil.
Marie: My line about Baker was a joke, because he seems to be a very unlikeable fellow. My personal knowledge of him comes from sharing a table at fund-raisers and benefit dinners a couple of times. He’s the only successful politician I’ve ever met who seems not to like people in general.
What I do to hold politicians accountable is call them out on my radio show.
No, I don’t know Obama. And one thing I despise is when people make half-assed predictions like “we the American people will pay a heavy price for his status.” This is meaningless twaddle. Stick to what has happened, rather than what you see in your crystal ball, and you’ll get more respect for your opinions.
You also might want to avoid obviously stupid comments like “The DNC was never interested in a Democrat in the White House.”
Al you show is going to make a difference. wow. It just gives you a pay check and a reason to get on the air.
Funny, but that’s pretty much how I feel about most “public servants.” Self-satisfied ass.
I agree with you their Al. You said it . You wouldn’t be talking about your candidate. I know you are not talking about me.
He’s not my candidate, Marie. I just don’t like yours. And yes, I’m talking about you. How do I know what kind of public servant you are? Give me your name and I’ll ask around.
Her name is Harris McDowell. Ever heard of her?
None of your business. Have a nice day. I ‘ll continue to do what I do best. Serve the people.
Hey Hon! Keep on truckin’
Marie is cindy McCain!!!!!!! Any cooking tips doll?
Cindy, you say you respect HIllary. She just asked you not to vote for Johnny-boy. (see, I say boy, cause ya got all pissy when I called him old) are you going to insult someone as respectable as HRC and vote against her candidate? sad….
Oh, SOB! This thing is starting up again?! DAMN IT!!!!
This thread is like a sore that some people can’t help picking at.
Why won’t this thread die.
It’s like Protack’s candidacy. Logic says it should die. Only one person takes it seriously. Yet, it just keeps on going, no matter how much you try to ignore it.
What happen to everyone. It gotten so quite on the home front.
Thanks, Marie! I was wondering when this thread would come alive again. I thought Melissa would eventually come along to perform CPR.
We’re almost halfway to the goal of 1,000, kids!
BTW, A.Price, I greatly admire and respect HRC, but I’m not going to vote for someone I think is unqualified to hold the office just because she asked me to.
maybe because I am an issues voter (whatever THAT means) I am confused as to why someone would vote against their perceived self interests. If you like Hillary for her stances on the issues, and you cant vote for her, why not vote for the person closest to her views that IS still running? all I’m saying.
Hey what is this thread about anyway? we cant argue about what the all powerful delaware super delegates will do….
So, because I’m a trouble maker, what the hell is Obama doing? He is acting like george bush 4 pro capitol punishment? pro guns-for-everyone? seems to be AGAINST the separation of church and state? he is now all about burning the constitution so we can have a very false feeling of safety……
where my fellow discontent obama-bots at? holah dawgs!
huh?
I’ve said it before A.Price, it doesn’t matter what his ever-changing set of issues is if he’s not experienced enough to understand how to get them accomplished or strong enough to see them through.
McCain and Hillary are both closer to the center than Obama (as am I). I would be more comfortable with someone with McCain’s proven track record of fighting for important issues than Obama’s track record of simply saying the things that people want to hear.
I’m also concerned that Obama is naive enough to think he can sit down and reason with crazy-assed theocracies as though a) no one else has ever thought to do that, and b) it’s some kind of simple misunderstanding that he can clear up over some tea and crumpets.
He is the perfect blend of arrogance and ignorance – just enough of each to be dangerous. He is the polar opposite of GWB in that he is wishy-washy where GWB is stubborn and bullheaded; however, he will end up with equally disastrous results. Just my opinion. I’ll take my chances with McCain, thanks.
Naive obama is not. He knows exactly what he is doing and he wants to win at what ever price. He is just the figure head. He is not running the show. He will be directed and told how to and when to. The people running him have a serious agenda to follow. Hillary was not wanted for a reason. If she had had the backing of the DNC she would be the nominee. She is playing by those rules. She is willing to operate independently. That is what got her in trouble. I am voting for McCain, because I don’t want to pay anymore taxes then I have to. I feel that unfortunately the military is a necessary evil and in order to stay on top of our game we must be prepared and well equipped.
We live in very uncertain times were things to change at any moment. We need to Anticipate and be prepared. “I think I been a repressed republican for many years.” Who would have known?
Zzzzz….
wake up, p! was the wine too much? 🙂
The wine and company were great, but this thread is soooooo over. Let’s move on, shall we? Please!
NOOOO!!! 1,000 is the goal. When you make a commitment (see #314), you have to follow through…
dom, really? so hillary and mccain are closer to each other on right of choice, health care, social security? They MAY be closer on foreign policy, but I think she was just being macho during the primary. as far as domestic policy, the only difference I really noticed between Hillary and Obama was choice or mandate for universal health care. I have been doing a lot of research on what the 1960 election was like, this is crazy similar. a first term senator beating a seasoned Republican… McCain cant even remember the origin of the fake names he gave to the VC in his book it was the packers, on tv it was the stealers. ….. his economy advisor thinks Americans who are hurting in the economy are whiners, his foreign policy advisor thinks a terrorist attack will help, HIS pastors think God sent Katrina to punish gays, and Hitler to “help” the Jews. I don’t presume to know what your interests are, but i would like a few examples of why HIllary is closer to McCain. other than the war vote of course. and I dont know if we can hit 1000 without changing topics a little
but I’m in it for the long haul
‘McCain cant even remember the origin of the fake names he gave to the VC in his book it was the packers, on tv it was the stealers.’
That wasn’t a memory lapse, that was pandering. It’s what they do when they talk about their agendas, when they talk about their pasts, when they talk about how they’re going to make everything better. Hell, when their mouths are moving, they’re pandering.
Hillary’s voting record puts her in the DLC category, which is akin to satanism on this site, but more in line with my beliefs. More than anything, tho, it’s a personality thing for me. Not ‘gee, I’d like to have a beer with him/her’, but ‘gee, she/he is a fighter who won’t give up because the cards are stacked against her/him’.
McCain’s candidacy was flatlined late last year, but he rose from the ashes and snagged the candidacy without the support of his party and without having to trash anyone along the way. He accomplished that with nothing but sheer determination. I just don’t see that in Obama. I see a pretty guy who takes the easy way – when the going gets tough, he sits it out. He didn’t even bother campaigning in states where Hillary was going to crush him and he has a history of either voting ‘present’ or not showing up for the more controversial votes. That may not be a big deal for some, but it matters to me.
oh COME ON. Barack Obama’s LIFE isn’t a lesson a working hard for what you want? McCain and HIllary were both children of fortune. IN regard to winning the nomination, the Republican nomination process totally ignored the support for Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee they won more states early on, but once people saw a hated democrat like Hillary wasn’t going to be an easy target for a right wing nut-job like Huckabee or a sleeze ball puppet like Mitt, they knew they needed McCain to have a shot at beating Obama. Think about when he won how all the right wing flapping heads said they would rather vote for a democrat then McCain. I know it is conspiracy theory, but I think McCain is the nominee because he is the only one of all the Republican candidates who had a even a prayer of beating Obama. Clearly he was their best choice, but Im sure he had to sell his values, some of which I supported, and may have voted for THAT John McCain in a different situation. Vote for McCain if you want. I don’t think there will be enough of you to be blunt, and more importantly, I don’t think there will be enough Republicans left in congress to rubber stamp his ideas even if he DOES win. I think the country is posed to move back toward the left. it’ll happen for a while, than we’ll go back to the right. It’s been happening for almost 250 years in America and it will continue to happen.
I would hardly call McCain and Clinton ‘children of fortune’. Clinton grew up in a middle class family and McCain was hardly a trust-fund baby (his wife is a different story).
Why is Barack’s life a lesson for working hard for what you want? He make like to talk a big show about being raised by a single mother, but that’s not exactly the whole truth. His mother married more than once and married well each time. He also spent quite a few years with his very comfortable grandparents. He was hardly a kid who grew up in squalor and had to fight the system to get ahead. He went to a prestigious private high school and good colleges.
I’m a little confused about the college part, though. I didn’t read his books, but didn’t he claim he was a big drug user in high school? Or was he already in college at the time? If it happened when he was in high school, I’m not sure I understand how he managed to get into Columbia. I don’t know too many big drug users who managed to get into Ivy League schools. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying, the way I’ve heard his drug use described (more than casual pot smoking), it seems unlikely. There’s a bit of a disconnect there.
he admitted to using drugs… pot and “a little blow” which is much more honest than Bill’s side-step of “i didn’t inhale”. (Bill Clinton also had a uphill battle in getting to the presidency and that should be recognized) AND id was the 70s. really, who didn’t do drugs? according to the book, cause Im sure he was lying and has actually gotten worse and is on acid all the time, he realized he was wasting his time with near the end of high school and started working harder in college. Since you haven’t read his books, or the NY Times articles that talked to his high school friends, who basically said “he was never that big of a drug user” I can understand why your comments in reference to it sound so “Fox Newsy”
when i called McCain a child of fortune I am talking about generations of navy admirals.
oh c’mon this CAN’T be dead. Hillary is getting all psycho ex-girlfriend again. LETS GO!
Go go go!
…!!!!