Mike Protack Continues to Surprise
Protack is on Mascitti right now and I have to say that I like Mike’s take on the Wilmington gun violence issue. I have not looked into the technology he is talking about, but at least he is talking about gun violence.
Anyway, we should all be outraged whenever ANYBODY is shot in Delaware. Not just when they are shot in a “nice” neghborhood – or we happen to know the victim.
Each and every time a handgun is used to injure or kill someone in Delaware we should all be shocked and appalled that we’ve let the gun nuts get away with arming every defective nutjob who got the notion that they need a gun.
Protack is off to a good start with this, but changing our culture of vilolence which turns the 2nd ammendment inside out to justify providing cheap guns through strawman purchases and “gun shows” to anyone who wants them needs to be the next step.
Oh Jason… what have you done? Wait for it… ten, nine, eight… cue mike w.
oh no
Each and every time a handgun is used to injure or kill
I use my gun to shoot targets and stir my coffee. Over the past few days I have come to learn that guns aren’t really used for killing at all.
You are so off base on this one it is funny
But Protack’s system will allow the police to ID the type of gun you are using. So theoretically, if you don’t know what kind of gun you have, you can just fire it randomly in Wilmington. When the police arrive, ask them what kind of gun you have.
hopefully it won’t be some gay neutered ar-15. those are so lame
Hello Pandora. – I’ve spent alot of time around the Delaware AG’s office and met many of our State Prosecutors and Judges. If there’s a case involving a violent offender (particularly in the AG’s habitual offender division) it’s almost a given that two things will be involved in the case. DE’s most violent criminals are generally prosecuted by this division.
1. Possession of a firearm by a person prohibited. Most of these guys are convicted felons, (99% prosecuted in the habitual offenders division are felons) and they’re getting weapons anyway. That should tell you gun laws aren’t working.
2. Drugs. – you would not believe how many of these shootings, burglaries, etc. are drug related. So many are that it’s pretty much a given. This came straight from the mouth of Judge Ableman when she spoke to my law class in May and plenty of others in DE’s criminal justice system will tell you the same.
I even sat and watched closings in a trial of a Wilmington drug dealer who shot two people in the head. The man showed no empathy or remorse whatsoever, in fact he was proud of what he did. It’s violent scum like him that are the problem.
As I’ve said before, the “gun culture” and “thug culture” are two distinctly different things. You have to fix the thug culture in Wilmington if you want to fix anything.
“But Protack’s system will allow the police to ID the type of gun you are using.”
Sorry but this is technologically impossible.
BTW Jason – there’s no such thing as a “gun show loophole” It’s no easier to get a gun at a gunshow than it is anywhere else.
These criminals a “armed by gun nuts?” I don’t know about Mike, but I sure don’t hand out guns (to anyone). How are people in support of the 2nd A. responsible for criminals?
I am on the verge of doing a write-in campaign for hottest blogger.
Well liberals have a long history of going easy on the poor, misunderstood violent criminals. They have to find someone to blame, so they blame us “gun nuts” rather than focusing on the criminals and on the cultural reasons why they’re turning to crime.
Sorry but this is technologically impossible.
Tell it to Protack. Those are his words, not mine.
Can someone provide a quick rundown on this “ID System” Protack is proposing?
If it’s microstamping or a ballistics database both of those have been proven failures in CA and MD.
Also, ID’ing the gun used in a crime doesn’t do a damn thing to PREVENT crime or to help the victims of violence.
No, it is a series of acoustic detectors that would be installed throughout the city that would pinpoint where a gun was fired and then activate cameras in a 10 block radius to ID the shooter.
Supposedly, the acoustic detectors would ID the gun.
Mike W.: The technology is called ShotSpotter; the company’s web site is http://www.shotspotter.com if you want to read the company’s claims.
PS: Mike Protack is a conservative, not a liberal.
But I bet that no one would expect a Hello Kitty gun, so that might be the safest option…
Hmmm. Well the report was that it was an assault rifle, but all I see here is a cute little Hello Kitty rifle…
I fail to see how this technology makes people safer. Even if it works (which it won’t) how does it help the guy who got shot?
How the hell is this “technology” going to ID exactly what gun was used based on “acoustics?”
Wouldn’t a better response be to get the criminals who are shooting people off the streets rather than relying on cameras to do police work?
Just because protack is a conservative doesn’t mean his idea isn’t stupid.
Well the argument is that police can be dispatched to the exact location, presumably to see a guy that has been shot.
Then the cameras get pictures of the shooter, who is presumably apprehended because we would have a high-res pic of the shooter and a description of his gun.
Oh, and don’t get me started on Protack.
Protack, the political prince of darkness, jumped on this as he does everything as if it were his idea. In fact, this has been discussed in City Council, and a grant has been requested to do it. Dwight Davis a Wilmington activist and many of the citizens are opposed to these dimwits who want to use “every homeland security trick in the book” to put cameras on every corner, and decrease the rights of hard working citizens who are not involved in crimes.
Protack proposed an RFID system, (google that) and see what this right wing zealot really wants for the citizens of Delaware. When I heard the “prince of darkness” expounding on RFID, I did a google search and sent it off to the “gang of 4” in IPOD who unlawfully endorsed and then nominated Protack for Governor…more on that later (it ain’t over till the fat lady sings).
Protack an ex marine wants to use every “fascist” tool in the “fascist” tool box to take away more of our rights and civil liberties. It just goes to prove the “dimwits” electeds and those “wanna bee’s” don’t have a clue how to deal with crime, poverty, ex felons, druggies, and rather than go to the “root cause” of these societal ills, they want to bring down our civil and consitutional rights. Again, I support the 2nd amendment, does Mike?
The idea, as Protack explained it, is to flood the zone when shots are fired, giving the cops a better chance at catching the criminals who are shooting people.
Of course, you could always do a little research instead of asking others to explain it for you…
The UK had the same Idea. They’ve got millions of CCTV cameras all over the place. Sure seems to be doing a great job quelling the violence……
A thug willing to shoot someone isn’t in the least bit deterred by a camera.
Liz: Are you against it even if it works?
“It just goes to prove the “dimwits” electeds and those “wanna bee’s” don’t have a clue how to deal with crime, poverty, ex felons, druggies, and rather than go to the “root cause” of these societal ills, they want to bring down our civil and consitutional rights. Again, I support the 2nd amendment, does Mike?”
Liz – I’m surprised the liberals on this site would support such measures. They’re a blatant violation of privacy and won’t do a damn thing to stop crime. Again. Has anyone seen what’s become of the UK?
“Liz: Are you against it even if it works?”
I’m surprised you’re not Al.
Ummm, Mike, those cameras are for collecting tolls, mostly.
I am not saying that the cameras are a great idea (actually it is similar to Forakers’ low tech system, but that is a whole different story…), but if the technology works as advertised, it would identify said thugs and put them in jail.
It is even possible that it would have a picture of said thug with gun in hand pointing at the target just a second after the shot is fired.
You guys do realize that Philly already has this shotspotter technology. Sure seems to be reducing crime there.
Oh hell – DC has shotspotter too! Looks like it works really well and is effective in reducing gun violence….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/21/AR2006102100826.html
dueling articles:
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/jan08/shotspotter012308.html
My point is that DC and Philly have had it for some time now and it hasn’t done a damn thing to lower their crime rates. If it were effective we’d see immediate decreases in violence in those cities after it was implemented, and we haven’t.
Liz just embrace your party’s endorsed candidate.
seems to me that philly needs better gun laws then
“seems to me that philly needs better gun laws then”
Right…. because the existing gun laws in Philly have done such a bang-up job at reducing crime, just like they have in that mecca of safety known as D.C., where guns have been banned for 30 years.
Insanity – Trying the same thing over and over and expecting the same results. If it hasn’t been working why would you support the principle of “just try it again this time, only HARDER?”
anon: He is not our candidate, he is the candidate of a “gang of four”. Protacks fascist tendencies is why I so vehemently oppose him. He doesnt believe in a “womens right to choose”, settled law in my book.
I don’t want to get too much into how he became the “nominee”, because other actions are being taken!
No Al, it doesnt work that’s why I oppose it. I also oppose it because my nephew who is in London a lot, says a person cannot walk down the street, without a camera on you. Sounds like Big Brother to me! England has a ban on guns, but the public are killing each other with knives.
Sorry, I don’t believe in depriving the rights of a majority, to get a few bad apples. If the cops don’t know at this point, who the “bad guys” are, what are we paying them for. How bout some surveilance on the “bad guys” from police working as they have for hundreds of years.
Phila. and Baltimore and DC have some of the highest crime rates and murders in the country and how has this “high tech gadget” ended violent crimes there. It doesn’t work, and gives a sense of “false security”, and gives those who support this 1984 idea cover for not addressing the problem in other ways.
So, what grand ideas do you have for reducing gun violence in Wilmington, Mike? I’m not really in favor of the cameras/detectors for privacy reasons. But it seems to me that it might provide police with another tool that would assist in stopping the kind of violence that you say is not indicative of “gun culture.”
Wouldn’t incarceration reduce “thug culture”? And wouldn’t it be reasonable that reduction through incarceration would actually take some time, rather than being immediate?
Liz – Isn’t it interesting that liberals complaining about the loss of rights under Bush would so eagerly support such a step towards a 1984 Statist utopia?
I haven’t said I support it. I merely asked the question.
Mike: The link to the WaPo credits the tecnology with helping them catch bad guys. Have anything that shows it doesn’t work? Or are you just going to go with your talking points? And please don’t go with “there’s still violence in cities with the technology,” since nobody has every claimed it would drop gun violence to zero.
Insanity – Trying the same thing over and over and expecting the same results. If it hasn’t been working why would you support the principle of “just try it again this time, only HARDER?”
kinda like your spoon to gun analogy….
Both are inanimate objects that cannot act on their own. The spoon cannot cause obesity without direct manipulation and irresponsible behavior by a human. The gun, also just an object, cannot harm anyone without direct, conscious manipulation by a human.
That’s the short version. I can’t put it any more simply than that.
In your mind you have elevated the gun to something that it is not. It is not capable of conscious thought or action, nor does it have control over the mind of the user.
Mike W. exactly why I never refer to myself as a “liberal”, I am a “progressive resistor”. I resist any and all attack on the Consitution, realizing there is NO one in this country in politics today, who we can trust to provide a better document than founders delivered.
I met a young mother in Wilm with 4 children. Her 16yr old was selling pot. I told her “one day he is going to be caught”, she said, “I worry everytime he goes out, but you know…at the end of the month, food stamps gone, no money..his contribution is keeping food on my table”. She was a church going woman who had a part time job, just to have health care and $50 in food stamps.
There are many reasons why crime is up…when the economy is going down the tubes, really poor people are devasted.
I have heard Charles Potter talk about his going out with police, and they are finding 10 year olds packin’. This has a lot to do with drugs and dealing. The dealers are very smart, they go after mentally ill, and retarded to make deliveries, sucker in young kids and there are gangs forming.
Where are the social workers, Families Youth and Children, where are the psychologists, nurses, school officials etc? Missing in action.
I do not believe you use this “fascist technology to get a few bad apples”, to infringe on the rights of the law abiders is the way to go.
This technology simply doesnt work, if it did in Balt. Phila and DC, then I would give it a second look.
Why not use the millions this system will cost to purchase, install and man, and use those funds to provide, summer jobs, open up a facilty where kids can go that is safe and they are entertained. A lot of this comes from pure boredom. Kids are roaming the streets late at night, where are the cops riding around in their cars, don’t they see them? We do? Why aren’t they picking them and taking them to their parents, use the laws already on the books.
This fascist strategy is more about getting rid of the “perception that Wilmington is a violent place”, so the corporates will continue to incorporate here, come her without threat, than it is working on problem solving in the neighborhoods where the problems exist.
A lot of these kids have quit school, come from the poorest families, domestic violence at home rampant and they look for any outlet they can. They are victims for the drug dealers and hard core criminals.
A report out today about foster kids being put out of the system, aging out of the system, with no family support whatsoever. Where do you think they will end up. These kids have been used and abused, have little coping skills, many uneducated, and mental problems.
There has to be a better way.
The installation price tag for the system in Wilmington is $500,000, according to Protack.
Liz – I couldn’t agree more. If you want to fix the city you have to focus on the people, specifically on making sure that so many of the young black men who end up in a life of crime develop positive values. (I.E. the importance of a good education and of personal responsibility) So much of the crime problem is due to the lack of father figures for these kids and the lack of a positive role model.
– And for Don Viti – No, pointing out there race is not racist. Violent crime in perpetrated disproportionately BY blacks AGAINST other blacks. We can’t solve the crime problems until we tackle the underlying reasons why this is the case. Unfortunately doing so is difficult and sometimes political suicide, so we’ll continue to blame guns.
Oddly, the UK gun ban has yielded a “crisis” in knife crimes. Who woulda thunk it?
Propaganda like this is almost too much to be taken seriously :
http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m3/jul2008/0/5/0CA18FA2-E269-980A-392AAFEC17DFA887.jpg
Gordon Brown (Labor) wants to get “get tough on knives”.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/07/15/gordon-brown-s-tough-crackdown-on-knife-crime-89520-20644126/
I wonder how long before there is a ‘spike’ in fork deaths and violence, and then ‘spork’ attacks…
I have said it before : ” FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS, BABY”.
“Where are the social workers, Families Youth and Children, where are the psychologists, nurses, school officials etc? Missing in action.”
Where are the parents?
“If you want to fix the city you have to focus on the people, specifically on making sure that so many of the young black men who end up in a life of crime develop positive values. (I.E. the importance of a good education and of personal responsibility) So much of the crime problem is due to the lack of father figures for these kids and the lack of a positive role model.”
Mike, since you’re a libertarian, I’m surprised you didn’t list one of the actual reasons the drug trade flourishes in the city — many pracititioners have no chance to make that kind of money by legal means. Guns are simply a tool of the trade.
“Mike, since you’re a libertarian, I’m surprised you didn’t list one of the actual reasons the drug trade flourishes in the city — many pracititioners have no chance to make that kind of money by legal means. Guns are simply a tool of the trade.”
And I agree. Responsible parenting is probably the most important thing. It’s hard for that to be a reality though when so many fathers are in jail, and when the culture sees it as a badge of honor to have kids with as many different women as possible and promotes treating women like they’re subhuman.
Exactly. It flourishes and is profitable because it’s illegal. (just like prohibition) Guns are needed because unlike legal enterprises those in the drug trade have no non-violent system through which to mediate disputes. Thus the informal “laws” of the street drug trade are enforced by thugs with guns.
My wife is an LCSW, and I can tell you inner city problems are beyond the parents ability to overcome in a lot of cases.
We have left it up to the parents under the “pick yourself by your bootstraps” meme. A lot of good it has done.
Oh, so gun control and government invasion of privacy is going to fix the violence? How exactly?
We need more LCSW, my daughter worked for the State for about a year. Her case load so full, the needs so many, she was working 7 days a week, and quit.
There are too many parents whose husbands are gone, in jail, on drugs, etc, etc. Even those husbands who would live with their wives, can’t because of the system! Of course the problems are overwhelming, but using this “fascist technology” is not a liberal or a progressive thought. Its a regressive action.
There are many who want to work, no transporation, or they have drug charges, even if they got themselves straight, once arrested no one will hire you. That should be fixed by the Delaware Legislature. Expunge records for petty crimes, and let people start the lives over.
Where is the compassion for the people caught up in these slums, with no way out. We have offered up all kinds of sane programs to deal with these issues, but the Del. Legislature isn’t interested in problem solving, but continue down the slippery slope of “civil and contitutional violations” harming good citizens who are doing everything they can to make life better.
We don’t need regressive responses to societies ills, we need progressive movement to rid our city of the horrific poverty, lack of education., and the slums. Delaware’s graduation rate is an abomination. Yet we continue to do the same ole crap instead of searching for best practices, and trying to do something that “may be out of the box”.
We put vulnerable children and young adults in Juvenile Detention Centers (prisons for the young) or Foster Homes that go unmonitored, and when these kids leave the system, they are absolutely unprepared to care for themselves, unable to fill out a job application, on their own and wonder why all these problems continue.
Liz Allen
You are quite right. Why don’t you run for office? If Protak tries these feel good measures that just gives us a 1984 environment, he needs to be defeated. Many conservatives and Repub licans are against these type of measures.
Make sure that info gets out beyond this blog.
So, let’s, for the sake of argument, assume that you could actually catch bad guys with this system. Is there a set of controls that could be put in place that would allay big brother fears? For example, a non-profit or a judicial panel that would manage the software control of the system.
As a geek, I am often blinded by cool technology and the desire to just fix the technical problem. As a liberal, I certainly see the risk of putting something like this into the wild. I just wonder if there isn’t a balance that could be struck if this were effective.
Thank you for all the comments. No one else running for Governor has offered any workable plans on this item.
Let me address privacy first. There is no issue because the devices are passive unless a crime has been committed. It has been challenged in other locales and passed muster.
It is not Big Brother, it is a tool to maximize the valued work of our police officers by giving them GPS of the shooting, the type of weapon and also the picture of who did the shooting.
It is not liberal or conservative just like bullets and handguns are not either. This technology is efficient and it works. North Charleston, SC a city very similar to Wilmington had a 35% reduction in violent crime.
Yes, the problem is deeper but the proposal is about public safety not anything else.
That sounds like pretty amazing technology. Even if it doesn’t immediately reduce gun violence, it sounds like it will make it easier for the police to catch the perpetrators. Eventually, word would spread around the community and it seems the crime rate would naturally drop.
Excellent idea, Mike.
Mr. Protack. How does it determine the type of weapon? or is it just a broad determination (I.E. rifle vs. pistol?)
How would a firearm be specifically identifieable by some ‘acoustic signature’?
Given the nature of urban areas, reverberation could cause problems in location the source of the shooting.
One could probably differentiate among shotguns and rifles and pistols but that does not tell much.
This idea seems to be a ‘gee whiz’ thing that appeals to people who learn from movies.
Not one of the better Protack ideas.
well, the echo could be cancelled. this is especially true if there are two sensors that would “hear” the shot. Echo Cancellation is a pretty well defined technology at this point. It is the reason that your cell phone doesn’t get all crazy when you are among reflective buildings. You might lose connectivity, but you don’t hear echos, even though your phone is receiving them.
So now imagine that you are in a recording studio. Could you tell the difference between a .38 and a .44?
It is not liberal or conservative just like bullets and handguns are not either. This technology is efficient and it works. North Charleston, SC a city very similar to Wilmington had a 35% reduction in violent crime.
Take a close look at North Charleston’s crime statistics before you swallow the press releases from “Shotspotter . com”. While there was a nice dip in 2004 when the technology was introduced there, the violent crime rates exceed the pre-Shotspotter era now, and in the past two reported years, there have been twice as many murders as there were before the introduction of the technology.
It sounds like Mike Protack is getting most of his information from the press releases on the shotspotter website. I prefer this site to debunk his specific claim:
http://www.northcharleston.org/departments/publicsafety_crimestatistics.aspx
“So, what grand ideas do you have for reducing gun violence in Wilmington, Mike?” geek asked.
kavips responds: Arrest anyone loitering and process them. Anyone. Enforce jaywalking laws as well.
“Hey, you guys are loitering; you’re coming with us. …
“You can’t do that to us.”
“So where you going?”
“Nowhere.”
“Then you are loitering. Get in the back…..”
“You can’t do this!”
Yeah? Then take us to court.”
Process them all. Afterwards, anyone caught carrying a gun while on probation, is locked up for a while…..
Those never involved with the law, are free to carry a weapon as they see fit.
This eliminates creating a blanket ban to take care of one special need…..
Has anyone been to New York lately? Really? You haven’t been back since the 80’s, when it was under Mayor Dinkins? …. You ought to go sometime…. you’d never recognize it….
Lock up violent criminals. Tough sentences for “felons in possession” and try to teach urban blacks to value and respect themselves and each other.
I’d love to know why people think this would stop criminals from shooting someone? if not with guns they will kill with a knife…. They are criminals and would care less about how they do there crime. If they have all this RFID stuff, you find a loophole simple as that, get an illegal gun without the thing in it, or they kill another way. They will kill the person no matter what, and by the time the police get to the crime scene the person will be dead… So the stuff saves no one.
I love how Delaware reps want to use our tax dollars on pointless stuff like this. I’m sorry, I’m a republican and this is just stupid. And yes I’m in full support for my right to bear arms.
James Lee a sane republican! Can you believe these “citizen” supporters supposedly liberal, would embrace this “homeland security” incrementalism ? Shocking!
Bet the majority have never taken the time to research this “police tool”, and its true ramifications.
Please Protack supporters take the Constitution and rip it in shreds, do it now.
Protack has been in too many airports, he sees terrorists in every corner. He is using an emotional issue, and economic/poverty crisis to implement a system, that is reactionary.
Where are your ideas to deal with the root problems in the City of Wilmington, Mike? Don’t have any!
People don’t need guns if they want to kill, baseball bats, ropes, knives or their hands all kill people Mike, should we turn them over as well?
Yes I support the right to be arms. Its the law of the land the one document makes us all equal regardless of party.
Mike if elected Governor do you believe you can push this technology onto the citizens, or must this “plan” go before the legislature?
It’s just another one of your lame brained schemes to build enough “fear” into the citizens ,while propagandizing into giving up their legal rights. An vote for you.
Amazing!
You got one thing right Mike, the problem is deeper and your proposal is an “illusion” in making the public safe.
Your idea does not address the problem it is a lame way to “control” the public!
There are many Mike who will not accept your one sided view of public safety in a community “you” don’t live or work in”. Those supporting you are in the “extreme”minority.
All you are offering is a data collection system, there are no “solutions” to the “ghetto’s ills”. More repression is not the answer.