The Great Depression is Here.
Let’s be clear, without this massive bailout, the economic system of the United States would collapse into a depression worse than the Great Depression. The system would “meltdown.” The Dollar would be worth nothing. Senator Christopher Dodd said that is what lawmakers were told last night.
My God.
You fucking Republicans are all to blame. Your advocacy of deregulation for the last 30 years is responsible. The greed that underlies your policies and that invades your supporters was your motivation. You put yourselves and your wallets first, and our country last. You should all be round up and shot. Seriously.
This massive bailout will require massive tax increases on everyone. And I am talking about returning to 70% tax rates on the rich, like before Reagan. The thirty years of fun are over.
UPDATE: I just made a horrible comment in anger, about rounding up Republicans and shooting them. This was wrong, and I apologize.
FUCKING REPUBLICANS MY ASS!!!
This is real simple. BILL CLINTON GOT A BLOW JOB, OKAY?
I KNOW YOU LIBRULS WANT EVERYTHING TO BE ABOUT GREEDY REPUBLICANS, but suck on this….GREED WORKS!!!! How else are my taxes going to get cut? (WHEN THIS IS OVER?)
IF YOU PROMISE TO CUT MY TAXES you have my back and I have yours. So what that I NOW LOVE TEENAGE PREGENCY!!!?
SO WHAT that I NOW LOVE socialism!!!!! It is a crazy old world, but Republicans GET IT.
NO TAXES!!!!! NO REGULATIONS!!!!
USA #1!!!!!!!
I don’t think you can totally blame the repubs. As someone else stated on another post, the dems. have controlled congress for the last two years. What have they done to stop this mess?
What is going to be true is that these bandits are not going to leave whoever is President in January not many resources to address the residual problems. And there sure will be residual problems. Whatever largesse either candidate is planning, there won’t be any money to pay for it. And we already know that McCain is AOK with living large on credit.
You fucking Republicans are all to blame…
…You should all be round up and shot. Seriously.
The attorney is once again choosing his words interestingly.
Here, I will choose my response carefully: asshole
Shooting comments aside, Mr. DelDem just rocked out a great post.
And what we are living with now is the result of the massive shift of government focus started by Reagan — less support for a middle class (as in labor and productive investment) and way more support for business (as in risky assets and debt). Repubs have controlled congress for the last 16 out of 18 years or so — this re-orientation to value the transfer of tax money to businesses and the wealthy has been incrementally taking over the government for 30 years. 2 years of control of Congress with 41 Senators ready to say NO to all of it isn’t a platform for changing the pathways to all of todays banditry.
This situation is really frightening. I look at my kids, and think “what have we done to your futures?” This generation is about to be handed a very big check.
The repub Robbin’ Hood- rob from the middle class and give to the rich. And kill thousands of people along the way.
And so what is your solution?
And so what is your solution?
Stop robbing from the middle class and giving to the rich. Stop killing thousands of people.
Too late? Well, at least start holding people accountable, and make them pay back the money.
Tom, smugness doesn’t become you. Some of us saw this coming.
My solution? Obama/Biden ’08
In addition, I will be voting a straight Dem ticket this year. Somehow, I don’t think I’ll be alone in doing that.
His point is fine (look at my Twitter-wanna-be post from last night), but let’s face something else, too. delawaredem has shown his unchecked hatred for people that have (R) as their registration, his token R bestest-friends aside.
Oh, and we ALL know the solution. The time has come to pay the piper.
NOT ONE MORE WORD ABOUT THE BENEFIT OF TAX CUTS OR THE BEAUTY OF THE FREE MARKET.
Got it? Not one more word.
“Stop robbing from the middle class and giving to the rich”
So instead we should elect Obama and steal from the rich to give to the middle class?
No thanks.
On another note – This post is yet another example of “why are anti-gunners so violent?”
Mike: Ask him what he intends to shoot them with after they’re rounded up.
So instead we should elect Obama and steal from the rich to give to the middle class?
1. Taxation is not theft. Why do you hate America?
2. The rich enjoyed the party, now they want to go off and have a smoke while we clean up their smudged cocktail glasses and used condoms?
I like the beauty of the Obama plan which simply lets the Bush tax cuts expire on the rich.
And… Does anybody frikkin’ remember why the Bush tax cuts were never made permanent in the first place, when they controlled both houses?
We can thank Sen. Byrd for the expiration. The Byrd Rule is a Senate rule that says any legislation that would increase the deficit more than a certain amount, has to include a sunset clause:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_provision#The_Budget_Act_and_the_Byrd_Rule
In other words, the very law that passed the tax cuts itself acknowledged that the cuts would increase the deficit for the next decade.
Yeah…..Obama’s doing nothing more than letting Bush’s tax cuts expire……..
Liberlas “steal from the rich”, eh? Interesting argument boilerplate Mike. Wow, next thing you know you’ll call the NY Times a pinko commie rags and insult me as a damned hippie. Get into the 21st century, dipshit.
The point, as I see it, is the gov’t pays either way. Deregulation leads to corruption. Then we just bail them out because they are “too big to fail”. Or we have the guilded class pay more as we go. To characterize it as theft is false and inflammatory… as usual.
Even under Obama’s plan the tax increase doesn’t even dent the massive gains achieved by the top 0.50% under Bush’s tax cuts and the deregulstion of the last 6-8 years.
I’d like to unload a Super Soaker on a few of them…
Steal from the rich? You mean get back what they’re taking from us? Some of those rich have made their millions on businesses that we the people are bailing out with tax money and then evading their own basic tax responsibilities.
Claiming that Republican’s “rob from the middle class and “give” to the rich” is certainly false and inflammatory.
Claiming that Republican’s “rob from the middle class and “give” to the rich” is certainly false and inflammatory.
So how exactly DID all that money find its way into their pockets, coincidentally at the same time the government was borrowing huge amounts of money (which you co-signed for by the way)?
Claiming that Republican’s “rob from the middle class and “give” to the rich” is certainly false and inflammatory.
FUCK YEAH!!!! MIKE W has SPOKEN BIOTCHES!!!
Allowing people to keep more of their income isn’t “giving” anything DV.
Besides, the government can’t “give” money to anyone. It can only steal from one group and redistribute it to another.
How did if “find it’s way to their pockets?” Easy. Less of it was taken via taxes in the 1st place.
With Hatred like this display, I am glad you don’t have a gun. No matter how much I might not like someone, hate is a strong word I won’t use. And to wish death on another, especially an American? Sounds like prejudice of another kind to me. Wonder where you got such a temper. And then you condemn others who have one like you. You even ranted on Hilary with Hatred for a while on your blogging, now she is one of your most admired. Isn’t that a little like Flip-Flop you talk about? No wonder some of us don’t like any Politician regardless of what party. They all lie to suit their desire and they all had a hand in the shape of this economy. Placing blame is always the way to go? Killing the other party is the way to go? And you profess to believe in Christ? And people can relay their thoughts without all the cuss words which to me shows just how small a person really is. Go ahead and take your pot shots at my opinions. It will make you feel better as this is all you seem to like to do. I wonder what Obama thinks of how some of his supporters think? And if he is proud of all of you?
Susan – Delaware Dem is your typical anti-gun liberal. He’s all about gun control and civilian disarmament but at the same time is seething with hate and intolerane and wants those he disagrees with “round up and shot.”
It’s hate, bigotry, intolerance and violence like that which make me glad that in this country rational, tolerant people have a right to an effective means of self-defense under the 2nd Amendment.
Easily the most ridiculous post I have read in months.
Please name in detail the deregulation you speak of? Also, name the policies the Democrats would have put in to effect?
Hey – it’s the red baron wannabe gov. Look up Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You know, the McCain advisor, we are all just whiners… yeah that Phil Gramm. Whoops.
Thanks for dropping out buddy!
What a whiny little b.tch you are deldem!
Not to mention angry, hostile, intolerant, and quite possibly mentally and emotionally unstable.
Tweety said it best when he blamed a GOP Rep (Cantor?), and the Republicans in general, for trying to take off their uniforms and pretending to be something else.
Besides proving their own failure and ineptitude to do the right thing when no one is watching, it looks like modern conservatives, the DLC, and the Wall Street enablers can talk the talk but can’t walk the walk…..no accountability for everyone, yey!!!!
I’d like to hear Red and Mike’s beliefs on why the Economy is in it’s current state.
I’m sure it’s Clinton’s fault, VC.
1. Misguided loans to people who couldn’t pay them back if any part of their budget picture changed.
2. Stupidity of bankers in not seeing #1
3. Whinyness of liberals that somehow the morons in #1 and #2 were not the cause, and instead they were “victims.”
Redproud:
Scratch out 3 and put failure of the Bush administration to enforce laws or provide oversight.
And stop your whining.
Hey DG,
“Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act”
Before you start down that road, find out where Leach is today and who he’s advising. Good for the goose…
FWIW, Drudge has the following lede:
DOW UP 40 POINTS IN PAST MONTH…
UP 17% PAST 5 YEARS…
UP 43% PAST 10 YEARS…
I don’t know what is funnier
– listening to Republicans blame it on consumers
– listening to Democrats act like their pandering leaders would not have been beholden to the banking industry
Where exatly was anyone from either side of the aisle when finance professors all over the world were talking about this in 2001? Nader campaigned on it in 2004, he is not even allowed on TV.
The dems take the same dollars from the financial industry. Fannie Mae – $1MM last election cycle to the people that bailed them out. Freddie? $500M. B of A, Citi, Lehman, Merrill, AIG… all of the people whose companies are about to be bailed out by the US taxpayer pour tons of money into campaigns to gaurantee they get the policies they want, no matterhow insane it is, and they know if there is a huge meltdown the government will have to step in. The dems are walking hand in hand wit the republicans on this one.
I am wildly liberal. It does not mean I have to check my brain at the door and babble about how good the Dems are at being stewards of the economy. Why don’t you rename the site ‘Delaware Democrat’.
Oh, and mike W is a fool. He proves it every time he posts. Just needed to mention that.
And how much since Bush came into office?
Just askin’
I’ll keep #3, reaffirm it, and challenge you to find any real laws that were broken.
You have in your mind that something bad happened and clearly laws were broken everywhere. That’s par for the course for a liberal.
I’ll give you that something bad happened, but I’d be very surprised if those who did so weren’t very sure that the law allowed them to do what they did.
And I ain’t whining, cupcake. I’m telling you how it is.
And who was the #2 whore for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?
“Oh, and mike W is a fool. He proves it every time he posts. Just needed to mention that.”
Want to back that up with anything?…..
You speak for yourself.
Redfool:
Here ya go, fruitcake:
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/financial/fcs_report2007/financial_crime_2007.htm#Mortgage
Mortgage fraud grew 10X under repubs.
Not Brian, I’d love to discuss this with you further, because I agree in some part with what you said. I contend that this situation is more about an ideology that took root during Reagan which basically said – and people bought into- that government/taxes are always bad.
What I don’t want is to get bogged down with Mike W’s crap.
Dow Jones under Bush: 7.5% actual return which represents an inflation adjusted return of -10% for the 7 year period. So if you invested $100 on January 20, 2001 you’d have $90 of buying power today.
The DJIA rose during the Clinton Presidency from 3300 in Jan 1993 to 10,600 by the time Bill Clinton left office. That is 321% growth in his two terms. And no bailouts. And a surplus.
Pandora-
I would love to have a reasonable discussion… I sometimes feel like it is an idealogical food fight ’round here…
And I apologize if I encourage our friend 🙂
Oh, and…
feces throwing monkey’s evil twin for President!
Your posts are f’n hillarious monkey!
“Mortgage fraud grew 10X under repubs.”
Was it repubs committing the fraud?
Or liberal emptypockets empowered by Barney Frank’s misguided mortgage welfare soup kitchen?
Maybe the #2 whore for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could tell us who was looking the other way?
Not Brian, let’s let things settle down. I have been upset all day. I look at my kids and think we’ve screwed them. The ramifications of what has happened this week (and the years following) will not be fixed by the stock market rebounding.
Boo hoo.
Those who bought yesterday afternoon and this morning made a fortune!
Redshame:
The executive branch didn’t enforce the laws on the books. And, yes, I’d bet most of the criminals were repubs.
How does it feel to wrong on everything?
A Good Quick History of how we got here.
Mortgage lending standards loosening in 2004
The Fed just watched as standards were loosened
No doubt that the law let these companies write all of the bad paper they wanted and no doubt that the law let this bad paper get into the market for banks to make their very bad bets on. There is also no doubt that the past 6 or 7 years of government just watched as it knew these bandits were operating.
“There is also no doubt that the past 6 or 7 years of government just watched as it knew these bandits were operating.”
That I will agree with!
Gee…. I wonder if there were any democrats in the legislature during those years.
And if there were, how high would they rank on the list of people being paid to look the other way.
Would it be as high as…..#1 and #2?
And to anonone (DV or Jason sockpuppet):
How does it feel to be called out for the whiner that you are?
“What I don’t want is to get bogged down with Mike W’s crap.”
And therein lies your problem Pandora. Anything that doesn’t fit with your world view is crap. You want an echo chamber. You can’t handle an opposing viewpoint presented in a rational, logical manner (albeit in a matter of fact, blunt & persistent way.)
The simple fact of the matter is that several of you folks have proven that you can’t engage in anything resembling reasoned discourse. “Not Brian” fits in well with those folks I’m talking about, since apparently he to cannot engage in substantive debate and discussion.
And DelawareDem at least from what we’ve seen in this post is an absolute disgrace to the Delaware blogosphere.
First its “I will always hate any and all Republican’s” and now this. The vile, unrelenting towards anything Republican on this site is frankly despicable. I may hate liberal policies, but I don’t go around saying the things I read on this site about Republicans, nor do I adovocate violence against them.
You can’t handle an opposing viewpoint presented in a rational, logical manner (albeit in a matter of fact, blunt & persistent way.)
We do this all of the time. You just aren’t in these conversations. Heck, you aren’t in most of the conversations. You’ve just got your doctrinaire talking points and your delusion that you are actually contributing something here.
Sorry, cass. Mike hit the nail on the head.
Say “thank you,” and move on.
I guess that makes you part of the delusion. Congratulate yourself and move on.
“You’ve just got your doctrinaire talking points and your delusion that you are actually contributing something here.”
And what do you contribute besides your own talking points with childish banter sprinkled in? Certainly you ridicule those with opposing viewpoints, but you’re incapable of attacking the merits of their arguments instead.
Yes, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was the child of the Republicans. Nevermind that it passed the Senate with 90 votes, the House with over 350 votes, and was signed by a Democrat president. It wasn’t bipartisan. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
Not only that, Joe R., but have a look at who voted FOR Gramm-Leach (Biden) and who did not (McCain).
That said, greed is just a down payment on additional regulation.
Yep Bush had no clue.
NYT Sept. 11th 2003:
” The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.
The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt — is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.”
And who killed it? Some dude named Dodd.
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-commentaryhubbard0914.artsep14,0,5673162.story
Liberals are so convinced of their own superiority that they can not even imagine they could possibly be wrong or have a hand in anything bad. They are just too elightened for such things. I believe Orwell called that “Doublethink”.
http://www.americanarmed.blogspot.com
“And who killed it? Some dude named Dodd.”
Gee…#1 whore for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
WONDER WHO WAS #2????
“Liberals are so convinced of their own superiority that they can not even imagine they could possibly be wrong or have a hand in anything bad. They are just too elightened for such things. I believe Orwell called that “Doublethink”.”
On this site at least that is true. They’re trying to blame this whole debacle on the Republicans when both sides are at fault. Hell, the Dems are in the pockets of the Banks big time and it was the Dems who forced banks, under penalty of law, to give mortgages to people who had no business getting them.
“And who killed it? Some dude named Dodd.”
In 2003? Three years before Democrats took the majority?
By the way, that 2003 bill? That was the one that tried to raise the conforming loan limit to extend Fannie/Freddie market subsidies to loans of up to $540K.
Thank God those half-million dollar loans weren’t added to the current mess.
To qualify for a $ 540,000 mortgage, a homeowner needs to earn at least $150,000-200,000 annually.
“In 2003? Three years before Democrats took the majority?”
That’s when the Bush administration first raised it. Dodd killed it later on.
“By the way, that 2003 bill? That was the one that tried to raise the conforming loan limit to extend Fannie/Freddie market subsidies to loans of up to $540K. To qualify for a $ 540,000 mortgage, a homeowner needs to earn at least $150,000-200,000 annually.”
As opposed to handing out cash like Pez candy thanks to Obama and Dodd? With pretend paperwork?
I like that this will amount to roughly 3500 dollars per person to equal the 700 billion dollars.
This plan is to rob from the middle class and give to the rich (greed) and poor sub prime mortgage owners (exuberant denial) that should have never been given a home since they showed no proof of worthy existence (good credit or down payment).
The fact is the republican rich and the democrat poor did this to themselves and the middle class moderates are footing the bill. People should have never taken a 400 thousand dollar house on a ARM loan and the republican “man” should have never given them the loan to begin with. Both are to blame. Chew it up all of you. I am disgusted with my leaders and feel our societies negative savings plan finally caught up with us.
I think my founding fathers would be sick as well at what are nation has become, Republicans rushing to socialism. The illogical side of me says let this be Bush’s legacy and bring on the pain (second depression).
The logical side says to give the money, and force all executives to have no compensation (fired) and force them to sign a note promising they will never take another position in executive leadership with any publicly traded company. This would be a small grace for me having to pay 3500 bucks in taxes for their sins. Bailout the negative savings” I need it now” nation and kick the execs to the curb. That’s my vote. It still stinks but just not as bad as what they are pitching on Capital Hill.