Anonone: The Great Arbiter of the Delaware Blogosphere?
Now, this goes with a very large caveat: is the Anonone who just made a great comment that I am about to highlight and which Steve Newton has already highlighted on Delaware Libertarian the same Anonone that battles with Burris and Dave on Delaware Politics and at other sites and that comments here frequently? I would think he is, but with the name Anonone, I can never be sure. That is the problem with the “Anon” handle, since it is too anonymous and many use it. Of course, all of the Illuminati of the Delaware Blogosphere have never sat down and compared IP Addresses. But I digress.
There has been a running debate, sometimes civil, other times rather personal, between Steve Newton and Delaware Liberal over what constitutes the fringe, in the context of the DHS’ release of the report of right wing extremists. Steve has been most vocal on the matter of the DHS report, as he should be if he thinks it is wrong and a governmental overreach. And he has been very critical of our use of terminology to define both the lunatic fringe on the right and the broader right wing. Which is fine, we can take criticism so long you can.
In steps Anonone, who makes the following comment on Steve’s latest in this debate:
I am surprised that [Pandora] repeated the idea that “political parties have to control their fringe.” Even upon a moment of reflection, it is clear that such an approach is the antithesis of nurturing free expression of ideas within a political party.
Who represents the “fringe” that should be controlled in the republican party? Sarah Palin supporters? Ron Paul supporters? John McCain supporters? Mike Castle? RSmitty? Tyler Nixon?
And on the Democratic side, who represents the “fringe” that should be controlled? Russ Feingold supporters? Robert Casey supporters? Evan Bayh supporters? Tom Carper? Ben Nelson? Jessie Jackson? Jason330?
My point here is that one person’s “fringe” is another person’s deeply held or even principled position. Furthermore, political parties have multiple fringes. I could argue that the republicans have controlled their liberal “fringe” quite successfully – it just isn’t the same group that you consider as “fringe.”
Next, how does a political party “control” their “fringe”? Kicking them out? Censoring them? Returning donations? Denying them a vote? Questioning their patriotism? So, which “fringe” of the Democratic party do you think should be “controlled” and how do you propose doing it?
Good point, Anonone. Steve responded, “It occurred to me that effective parties don’t control their fringes, they exploit them and (occasionally) empower them (usually by accident).” Steve then recalls his main criticism that we (DL) are being too imprecise in our language. That we are equating all fringes with violent pathologically dangerous fringes, and that does a disservice to fringes, since it was once the fringes that wanted to abolish slavery, give women the vote, and end segregation. True enough. I think I can speak for everyone here that when refer to the fringe today in the right wing, we are talking about the violent pathologically dangerous fringe that wants to secede from the union, that wants to kill all liberals in righteous genocide, that kills police officers, that blows up federal buildings in Oklahoma City, that bombs abortion clinics and Olympic parks.
But a problem remains. Right now, that violent fringe is being catered to in the extreme by the mainstream of the Republican party and the conservative movement, so much so that it is beginning to be difficult to tell the difference. They are being told that President Obama is a tyrant intend on taking their guns. They are being told that America is dying because of government spending. That Obama plans on opening large reeducation camps. That he is a terrorist, a muslim, a radical black Christian. That he is a fascist. That is both exploiting the violent fringe and empowering them.
Hence our calls for the Republicans to control their fringe. And to answer Anonone’s question, what we mean by that is for Republican leaders to be ….gasp… responsible in their rhetoric. Call his policies socialist if you want to. Decry the horrible wasteful spending if you want to. But it does not foster honest debate, nor does it calm the violent fringe, to see Glenn Beck pretend to dose a man with gasoline as a metaphor for what he thinks Obama is doing to the country. We have already seen three police officers killed in Pittsburgh. And during the last Democratic presidency, we saw 168 Americans die because of violent lunatic fringe beliefs fostered by right wing conspiracy theories.
This debate will no doubt continue, because I am sure I have said something in the last two paragraphs that will rankle Steve or someone else. But back to Anonone, I must congratulate him (or her) for playing the voice of reason. Indeed, it takes talent to get Steve and Delaware Dem to agree with you, and to anger Tyler and Mike Matthews so consistently.
And to rebut Hube or Miscreant before they bring it up once again: No, it was not responsible for me to wrongly and stupidly declare that all Republicans should be round up and shot. That is why I immediately apologized for it when called on it. You see, that was me controlling myself.
You don’t exploit your fringe, you exploit the OTHER guy’s fringe. Which is what Repubs have been doing to Dems for years. Hell they even got the US Senate to denounce MoveOn.org.
You exploit your own fringe for votes, and you exploit the other party’s fringe for votes as well, by portraying the fringe to be representative of the entire party, thus causing voters to be turned off by it.
In a sense, we here at DL are doing that just as the Republicans did it over the last 8 years. Indeed, mailers go out on both sides with pictures of the most polarizing figures of each side.
But here, we are talking about something more than labeling and getting votes. We are talking about violence, actual violence that has occurred and can occur again if responsibility does not return to the rhetoric.
A1…arbiter? Swine flu? In-party bickering live at DP (and Smitty’s not the only one bitching)? John Atkins got elected…as a Democrat? Still swine flu?
We’re all doomed.
DD
Not a criticism but a slight correction of what I said (or intended to say): the genius of A1’s comment for me is that we ALL have been using the word “fringe” that way; I mean, you and I have gone round and round on the DHS report, but we have never actually discussed HOW we both use the word “fringe.” So that part was meant as a general mea culpa, not a shot at you guys. This time 🙂
Language parsing is FUN!! The very notion that words have meaning has been dispensed with in wingnutland.
Clearly we are talking about right wing whack jobs. To pretend otherwise is the kind of lame libertarian game playing we’ve come to expect from Steve.
Take the guns and lock them up. Case closed.
I know, Steve. I didn’t take it as a shot at all.
Great point by A1. Congrats to him or her for their great insight. A1’s right in that “the fringe” is what helps drive the party. I guess the more precise thing to do is to give ideas a voice without giving violent rhetoric a voice. Yes, I think a party has the right to decide which fringes they accept. The Republican’s problem is the fringe is now their mainstream.
Yes, it was anonone who made the post from the far left extremist fringes of the Democratic Party. I haven’t had anyone else spoof my identity that I know of since the incident at DWA.
This has been just too weird a week for me in the Delaware Blogosphere. I appreciate the kind posts from Steve and Delaware Dem and my fellow Delaware Liberal commenters.
And thanks to pandora for framing the issue.
OK, Anonone, save us some typing. Male or Female?
Male.
And the Geek deftly rules out 51.3% of the population in the secret Delaware blogosphere cabal to unmask our newest celebrity….
(Although A1 had let that one slip in a comment on another blog that once referred to “my wife” and since this is not Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Iowa, etc….)
Right now, that violent fringe is being catered to in the extreme by the mainstream of the Republican party and the conservative movement, so much so that it is beginning to be difficult to tell the difference.
My own posts on the DHS report here at DL have been very clearly focused on those who are organized for violence to advance their ideas or preferences. People with different ideas or who disagree with me are not the target as much as those who would indulge in criminality to disagree. While those posts get characterized as being focused on fringe ideas, A1s comment was important in that he asked the question that no one else would ask: what do you mean by fringe or extremist?
There is much of this sturm and drang that would not have existed if that question had been asked directly or answered by a closer reading.
Thanks A1!
If I was a woman, I would have picked a much cuter name. As a guy, I just went with the first thing that popped into my left brain. And then I stuck with it.
anonone // Apr 30, 2009 at 12:05 am
Male.
You bastard. That “reveal” should have The Crying Game theme playing in the background.
I kid! 😛
This is the kind of humor you get when I am still working at 2:06AM! MOTHER EFF!