I voted for Bernie
To all the haters out there, Bernie is simply telling the truth.
If the truth burns your ears, that’s a problem with your ears, not with the truth.
On the economy,
Today, we live in the richest country in the history of the world, but that reality means little because much of that wealth is controlled by a tiny handful of individuals.
The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great moral issue of our time, it is the great economic issue of our time, and it is the great political issue of our time.
On jobs,
Our nation’s infrastructure is collapsing, and the American people know it. Every day, they drive on roads with unforgiving potholes and over bridges that are in disrepair. They wait in traffic jams and ride in railroads and subways that are overcrowded. They see airports bursting at the seams.
For too many years, we have dramatically underfunded the physical infrastructure that our economy depends on. That is why I have proposed the Rebuild America Act, to invest $1 trillion over five years to modernize our infrastructure. It would be paid for by closing loopholes that allow profitable corporations to avoid paying taxes by, among other things, shifting their profits to the Cayman Islands and other offshore tax havens.
On foreign policy,
“We live in a difficult and dangerous world, and there are no easy or magical solutions. As President and Commander-in-Chief, I will defend this nation, its people, and America’s vital strategic interests, but I will do it responsibly. America must defend freedom at home and abroad, but we must seek diplomatic solutions before resorting to military action. While force must always be an option, war must be a last resort, not the first option.
On racial justice,
We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental.
On climate change,
The scientists are virtually unanimous that climate change is real, is caused by human activity and is already causing devastating problems in the United States and around the world. And, they tell us, if we do not act boldly the situation will only become much worse in years to come in terms of drought, floods, extreme storms and acidification of the oceans. Sadly, we now have a Republican Party that is more concerned about protecting the profits of Exxon, BP and Shell and the coal industry than protecting the planet.
This campaign will carry on beyond today.
Single issue 2016!!!
Today is the last day of the Bernie Sanders for President campaign. Any campaign that continues beyond today shall be focused on recruitment of new candidates up and down the ballot that share Bernie’s vision.
My wife and I are enthusiastically voting for Sanders today!
LOL. The “grand pronouncement” is actually the opposite of what the Bernie Sanders campaign is about. Rather, it is slowly and rationally building an undeniable case. A case that has attracted a broad base of support (2,513,665 donations that average $27.00)
Everyone please note how Hillary Clinton supporters always want it to be about a horse race, and never about issues.
That is telling.
Jason330, because their issues are corporate issues, not issues for the people.
That is not fair. I’ve been discussing issues – in fact, I put up a detailed issue post. 😉
I’m astounded how someone could for for Obama in the 2008 primary against Hillary and then not vote for Bernie in 2016.
This is painting with a broad brush, but “I like Sanders’ positions, but think Clinton is more electable” is the prevailing sentiment among Clinton faithful. It is a position that leaves me cold.
And I’m astounded how you obviously never read a thing I wrote. I was quite clear in 2008 that while I preferred Obama I would happily vote for either candidate. And I thought many Bernie supporters were disappointed in Obama – so maybe not so astounding.
But hey, thanks again for questioning people’s progressive street cred.
Honestly, one of the reasons I voted for Obama in 2008 because I couldn’t imagine another 4 or 8 years of crazy behavior from Republicans. That worked out well…
There is nothing progressive about Hillary. Nothing.
I voted for Bernie, and so did my wife. Of course, I cast my very first vote for George McGovern. Still proud of that one also.
What makes a progressive – other than you proclaiming someone a progressive or revoking their progressive card. Are ideas enough – even if they are unworkable or way more complicated than they sound in stump speeches. I’ve never been a believer in bumper sticker politics.
You mean bumper sticker politics like ‘Single Issue Bernie’? Bullshit.
Progressive as in not voting for a horrible war, not putting business before people, not cozying up to big banks, being for gay rights when it wasn’t politically expedient, etc.
You know the problem with purity contests? It’s an elimination process that ends with only person standing.
“Are ideas enough – even if they are unworkable or way more complicated than they sound in stump speeches. I’ve never been a believer in bumper sticker politics.”
I don’t get this. What do you mean are ideas enough? No, obviously they’re not. But when you don’t have NEW ideas, you’re left with the same stuff we have now. A stagnating country. It’s not even that the ideas we follow Bernie for are *new*. They were once the ideas that led a nation and a political party. Progressive to me = non-belief in “that’s unworkable, that’s too hard, that’s too complicated”. There are no simple issues in governance.
Wait – I seem to remember a purity argument about which candidate was MORE pro-women’s rignts, MORE pro-LGBT rights, MORE pro-minority rights, etc.
I also don’t get this progressive litmus test BS that keeps proliferating here.
My wallet’s full enough. I don’t need any more cards to carry around.
Nope. What you should remember is my questioning why Bernie didn’t expand his platform to include those issues. I said they were a natural fit.
But your distaste for social issues always comes shining through.
No Puck, I think you were thinking of this purity contest:
There is nothing progressive about Hillary. Nothing.
Such silliness.
Brian, I love ideas, but I need to see how they’ll be implemented. I need to see the path to making them viable.
Puck, it’s amazing to me how you were one of the most outspoken commenters concerning the ACA and now you’re all about changing mindset. Which was one of my, and others, point about the ACA – that it changed the way we viewed healthcare. What’s the difference now?
Refresh my memory (seriously). When did Bernie’s platform not include LGBTQ, Womens, and Minority issues?
If you want some juicy Hillary bashing read Delaware Dems vitriol directed at Clinton for having the nerve to challenge Obama late in the summer.
No, not silly at all. I’ll standby the fact that Hillary is a corporate shill like Carney and Carper.
Come on, Brian. Bernie’s stump speech, up until mid/late March, didn’t address these issues. Not saying he was against them, just that they weren’t part of his message – other than a line here and there. It was why I wrote the posts I did about feeling the bern.
Pandora, how are any ideas going to be put through with this Republican obstruction?
I confused here. I see paths to implementation for both candidates ideas. I’m looking right now. Any path forward touted by a presidential candidate surely will not look the same post-inauguration. Even with the aforementioned roadblock that is Republicans in Congress; and assumptions on which Democrat in the White House will have an “easier” time detouring around the roadblock.
We can plunk down paths forward all day long but I think we all know those won’t be the paths traveled over the next 4 years.
How do you judge which candidate’s paths are better at this point?
Stump speeches are like bumper sticker politics, at least for me. They don’t drive me toward or away from candidates. It’s the stuff underneath the stump speeches and soundbites.
Ignoring his history in Congress and Vermont; Sanders has had those issues ingrained in his platform. You just had to listen to and read more than stump speeches.
Oh, so he WAS for these things. But just not enough was said in his speeches to satisfy Pandora. Tell me again about that purity litmus test?
How about an Impurity Litmus Test. That includes a hawkish military approach, providing cover for the corporate fat cats, no impetus to break up the banks. These aren’t issues of a matter of degree. It’s who she is, what she’s stood for, and who she’s been. Maybe she won’t be the same person as president, but that would require a great leap of faith.
I’m totally prepared to vote for her if she’s the nominee. But all this BS about litmus tests and ‘Bernie should have said more about’ something is intellectual dishonesty. I, for one, am sick of reading it.
“What you should remember is my questioning why Bernie didn’t expand his platform to include those issues.”
It has been demonstrated time and again that Sanders actually has a platform on those social issues… he has for 30 years. He was on the right side of history when Her Inevitable One still beleived that “marriage was between a man and a woman”.
He talks about the things that make him different. Hillary claims leadership of the things she had to be dragged in to supporting.
Just because he isn’t loudly being for something that is basically required to call yourself a democrat, doesn’t mean he isn’t for it. Hillary Clinton finally.. and way late.. comes around on the very same Social issues Sanders has been advocating for for 30 years… and she gets all the credit.
Just because you willfully ignore the evidence against your talking point doesnt mean that talking point is right. The whole “single issue” crap is a punchline for Sanders supporters because it is so blatantly false. …. not that any of this matters.
Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to have a conversation with Bernie supporters? Here’s the way it goes:
Bernie supporter: I agree with Sanders positions and policies.
Me: How does he implement those policies?
Bernie supporter: Republican obstruction!
Me: Why isn’t he helping and endorsing Dem candidates so that we can lessen (and work on doing away with) GOP obstruction?
Bernie supporter: He’s not going to win, so it isn’t an issue.
Me: I’m confused.
Go back and reread the past threads and count how many times this happens.
Nemski- a corporate shill with some (suddenly thanks to Bernie) trendy income equality window dressing.
Pandora – the candidacy is the test of the theory. If he wins, he can win. If he loses, he can’t.
The Clinton camp’s desire to put implementation up as an issue rings hollow. It isn’t substantive.
The Party before Ideas.
“I’m totally prepared to vote for her if she’s the nominee. But all this BS about litmus tests and ‘Bernie should have said more about’ something is intellectual dishonesty. I, for one, am sick of reading it.”
I agree with the sentiment entirely. The damage it did, by saying Sanders is single issue, then dismissing that issue as unimportant, or racist (yep, some of you folks did that) or sexist (you did that too) makes it impossible for that issue to ever be approached.
You vilify being for economic equality as if you have to be against every single other progressive cause in order to have it be a priority… and many of you did that… in doing so you delegitamize the issue.
And I know… its a primary, they are supposed to be contentious and passionate and that’s the way the game is played……. it’s not a fucking game. Understand? Its not a fucking game. There are people of all kinds and affiliations who are stuck economically and writing it off the way many of you have done just shows your privilege and your arrogance.
“Bernie supporter: I agree with Sanders positions and policies.
Me: How does he implement those policies?
Bernie supporter: Republican obstruction!
GOP obstruction is not an issue exclusive to a Sanders presidency, you have to know that pandora.
Me: Why isn’t he helping and endorsing Dem candidates so that we can lessen (and work on doing away with) GOP obstruction?
Bernie supporter: He’s not going to win, so it isn’t an issue.
I’m not speaking for any other Bernie supporters, just me. Sanders’ endorsements aren’t going to whittle away the GOP roadblock. Those of us who have been stirring because of what Sanders is doing and saying are going to take it down. He’s shown these ideas ARE popular and do have support nationwide and there will be a whole new generation of politicians running on similar platforms because they can win.
We’re playing the long game here. Sanders presidency doesn’t change things overnight. It gives us chisels instead to start doing away with that roadblock.
Nemski – Can one be a corporate shill and still have progressive bones in their body? Jack Markell is a corporate shill yet he has put forth and accomplished a number of progressive things. Puck will, of course state that in education and economic matters he hasn’t been. This I concede.
But same-sex rights, some liberalization of marijuana laws, better common spaces (parks, trails), certainly some attempts are embracing cleaner forms of energy. There are many areas where Jack Markell went that Minner, Carper and even Carney wouldn’t have gone.
I think the same applies to Hillary. She is progressive to a much greater degree than Carper, Markell, Carney and Coons.
Pandora, I know you received better and more though out issues than that little piece of performance art would suggest. I know this because I gave you some, Jason gave you some, El Som did too. Every time you rang that Single Issues Bell, you were provided with examples of why and how you were WRONG. .. but you never acknowledged it and were back again with more of the same.
You ignored that bits that actually answered your question, and have boiled all Sanders supporters down to AAA. I think you’re just playing a debate game here. I for one am done with it after today.
I even made sure I owned up when there was something I didnt like about the Sanders campaign, so that sweeping proclamation about how “they never address….”
is also wrong.
Bullocks on Markell’s support of gay marriage. He wasn’t for gay marriage until it was a done deal nationally.
“GOP obstruction is not an issue exclusive to a Sanders presidency, you have to know that pandora.”
Nope, Clinton will just bargain away workers rights, environmental protections and consumer protections and NOT repeal the ACA, then claim a bi-partisan victory. You all spent so much time worrying about what Sanders would give up, you havent really given any though to what might be on the chopping block in a pro-business Clinton White House. WHEN (not if, you have to know it’s when) the first hostage is taken by the GOP…. Im thinking the ACA with either Planned Parenthood or the Keystone Line as the bargaining chip, We’ll see where Clinton’s true roots are.
All day, nemski. Markell, like Clinton, (and Obama, for that matter) waited until there was very little risk politically to be for something so obvious…. even then he tried to tip-toe in with civil unions. Are you saying the rights of gay men and women should have been kept down in the name of incremental change?
i wonder…. did the BernieBros ever pull this? http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-facebook-groups-trolled
“WHEN (not if, you have to know it’s when) the first hostage is taken by the GOP….”
Which is why I said it’s not exclusive to Sanders. Regardless of how each candidate deals with the obstruction; obstruction is still there.
In addition to that small scale trolling by Clinton fanatics, there is the large scale trolling by Clinton super pacs. Thanks for the link.
Decisions should be made based on analysis of not just the positions of the candidates, but the mood of the body politic; the make up of Congress; the ability to lead and influence others in power to follow; and the complexity of the objective/goal among other considerations
However, that analysis needs to be conducted for the entire spectrum of responsibility, of which domestic legislation is but a small part. My observation is that much if not all of the assessment being conducted here is limited to domestic policy and legislation.
My decision is based upon other criteria as well, including leadership and management of the entire government enterprise, conduct of foreign policy, and execution of national security policy and objectives. While I abhor war, I also recognize that it can arrive on our doorstep regardless of my feelings about the matter. I also know from experience that each agency is highly complex in both scope of responsibility, bureaucracy, and programs. Finally, the world, yeah the entire world, is affected by our choice. While they have no vote, nor should they, what we do and say matters in trade, human rights, national objectives and other areas – in short world stability.
We live in a world rife with conflict where global supremacy is a specific objective of powerful nations and where other nations look to the U.S. for guidance, leadership, and support to protect and defend themselves and ensure their economic and national security. We life in a world where young girls are being sold into sexual slavery; where radicalism and terrorism has invaded and taken root in every country; where climate change threatens our very existence; where the slaughter of innocents is a daily occurrence; where creatures are killed for trophies and sport to the point of extinction; where it is easier to acquire a gun to kill someone than it is to vote or to drive.
Balancing all those aspects of the job is inordinately difficult, but it has to be done. And while the minimum wage is a significant issue, so are all these other things. So what I do is to evaluate the whole person in context of what I expect them to have to deal with and accomplish outside our borders as well as inside them. Analyzing who will be better at getting things through Congress is a valid exercise but so is the ability to do something about human trafficking.
That’s my point, Brian. I expect a Clinton Whitehouse to roll over instantly. Sanders entire agenda will be the very first thing she moves away from in order to show how “compromising” she is. We’ll be given a false choice between social battles we have already won, and economic ones (which, if you live it, are social issues) which will be surrendered before they are fought.
Ben. Knowing how the movie ends is the worst part.
No, the worst part will be being told to celebrate “getting things done.”
I spend most days now hoping im wrong.
My favorite part of this election will be when the Democratic candidate has been irrevocably chosen and, after several weeks of wailings and lamentations from the losing side, we can move on to the General Election discussion.
Sanders not getting the nomination isn’t a loss to me. Disappointment for sure, not a loss though.
Dave, you’re not wrong on except on this: “However, that analysis needs to be conducted for the entire spectrum of responsibility, of which domestic legislation is but a small part.” Domestic legislation needs to play a center role in the next 8 years. One the major ways we set examples for the rest of the globe is in how we care for and support our own people. We can be doing much, MUCH better domestically.
several weeks of wailings and lamentations from the losing side…
Days if sanders… Months if Clinton loses.
Clinton might well get my vote, but she’ll never get my enthusiasm or money.
“We can be doing much, MUCH better domestically”
Sure. I agree wholeheartedly. And that influences my decision. But it’s not the only thing. It can’t be.
Ben, she doesn’t need your money; she has Wall Street.
I made a list of Hillary’s Ideas and her plans for the presidency. Here’s what I know
1. Sorta do this
2. Sorta do that
3. Kinda maybe do this
4. Most likely gonna do a little of this here and here
5. Not gonna be afraid to do just a little of this and a little of that
8 years… I’m so pumped for another Clinton.
At least I know what Bernie wants to do
Too bad not everyone knows. They just spit up what CNN tells them is Sanders’ platform
And you have a more nuanced understanding of Hillary’s platform than what has been spit up by CNN?
Of course… or else I’d be convinced she’s a criminal as well. I also clearly know about her positions dating back decades…. as opposed to thinking whatever she said last week is what she really believes.
What I love about you HillHacks is even though you’ve gotten most of the Sanders people to say “yes, I’ll vote for her in the general”, thereby disprovng your biggest fear (that we will all help Trump) that STILL isn’t enough… talk about purity…. You cant tolerate critique or questions and you have no answer when your own flimsy attacks are dissproven. Ah well. Time to re-like all those Sanders FB pages that got trolled out of existence last night.
I’m not asking you to kneel before Hillary and pledge fealty. I just don’t like being told that I don’t know what the hell Bernie stands for. I was at his rally on Saturday, I have plenty of friends IRL that support him. I have had lengthy discussions about where he stands on things and why he may or may not be elected.
We are all victims of a media narrative and people assigning stances and beliefs to candidates. Obama certainly isn’t Obama of the 2008 campaign. Markell isn’t 2008 Markell. But lots of that is projection and a lot of hope.
As for the years of Hillary to back up her platform, one of the features that I like about her is that she has a history of out-maneuvering Republicans. It took Obama parts of two terms to figure that out. Hillary has a grasp on that immediately.
You say Markell and Clinton are Progressives. Were Rockefeller Republicans progressive because they were supposedly socially liberal. Tell the difference between Hillary Jack and the typical Rockefeller Republican?
@lg “Hillary has a grasp on that immediately.”
She got my vote today.
I’ve had interesting debates with my kids (initially all apparent Sanders supporters). Though adults, I feel like I’m still trying to educate teenagers about the world. I’ve brought half of them around. One son gave me a bunch of Sanders T-shirts! My other son stuck me with a $100 Sanders donation bill, so I guess he didn’t come around.
He’s sort of like some of the Sanders supports here at DL… A little bit clueless and willing to do some damage in support of his clueless beliefs.
The road to party unity is paved with petty insults I guess.
Bernie will be a bad memory starting tomorrow.
@LE… “It is difficult to make a man understand a thing, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
@Liberal Elite
He’s sort of like some of the Sanders supports here at DL… A little bit clueless and willing to do some damage in support of his clueless beliefs.
You have a very high opinion of yourself and your political beliefs, Mr. “Elite”.
Ben is an ardent Sanders supporter. Ben is not clueless. He may be willing to “do some damage” to the Democratic party. I don’t know, as I don’t know Ben other from reading his posts here.
The problem I have (and I presume Ben has the same problem) is that you establishment types put party above all else. You accept “good” (Clinton) over “great” (Sanders) That bullshit is what got us into the mess we’re in today.
Clinton isn’t “good.” She’s just better than any Republican candidate. That’s a pretty low bar. Perhaps we should all aim higher.
Perhaps you should shut up and LISTEN to your kids, rather than try to dictate your political views to them.
Perhaps the Democratic party needs to feel some pain in order to succeed in the long term.
Perhaps I shouldn’t use the word “perhaps” so much in a single post.
The problem you have is assuming everyone accepts Bernie as great – and we’re not supporting him because we’re pragmatic, or establishment, or whatever. That wouldn’t be true.
@puck “@LE… “It is difficult to make a man understand a thing, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ”
Sorry. You can’t throw that back at me. I don’t work for Hillary, nor is my “income” tied to her success. My greatest financial gain is if Trump wins, and probably by a decent measure… Money seems to always flow in my direction when there’s a Republican in the White House.
Ben is an ardent Sanders supporter. Ben is not clueless. He may be willing to “do some damage” to the Democratic party. I don’t know, as I don’t know Ben other from reading his posts here.”
It depends how you define “damage” Tom Carper might view what I want as damaging… the 46% or so who support Sanders might not. A lot of democrats thought LBJ damaged the party by kicking out the racists.
“The problem you have is assuming everyone accepts Bernie as great – and we’re not supporting him because we’re pragmatic, or establishment, or whatever.”
Maybe you arent, but that has been the literal reason given by many.
@L “Clinton isn’t “good.” She’s just better than any Republican candidate. That’s a pretty low bar. Perhaps we should all aim higher.”
Here’s where we diverge. I do think the Obama is a bit better than Clinton, but I just can’t see supporting the notion that Sanders is better. I like his positions (excepting guns) better than Hillary’s but I vote for the person as well as their positions.
On a personal level Hillary beats Sanders hands down. You name it… energy, drive, accomplishments, competence, stature, connections, fortitude,…
On a personal level what qualities does Sanders have? (…and don’t go with the honesty canard)
“But same-sex rights, some liberalization of marijuana laws, better common spaces (parks, trails), certainly some attempts are embracing cleaner forms of energy.”
Wow. That’s some thin gruel, and you actually meant it as praise. Wow.
Yeah, education and the economy, who cares? I can marry my partner, toke up, take a hike and enjoy some of the highest electric rates in the nation. And if I’m a state worker, I can do it all without a raise. Well worth the 8-year investment. 😎
The problem you have is assuming everyone accepts Bernie as great
Bernie is only “great” in comparison to Hillary.
It’s a pretty low bar, you know, with Bill and Hillary (and Obama, for that matter) being bought and paid for by Wall Street, GM, FCA, Big Banks, etc.
we’re not supporting him because we’re pragmatic, or establishment, or whatever. That wouldn’t be true.
What IS true, pandora?
Why do you support HRC over Sanders? HRC is just like her husband…finger up to the wind decides her political positions.
Liberal-minded people like Bernie because he’s *honest* and *believable*. No one who’s had a pulse and a functional brain for the last 25 years considers Bill or Hillary honest or believable.
I don’t happen to think either has cornered the market on 100% honest. I find Hillary more believable. That’s my opinion, just like what you’ve written above is you opinion.
I’ve always found Bernies point of view and speeches inspiring.
Nice selection of quotes.
Hey, El Som, we vote the same. My parents couldn’t believe I voted for McGovern. After all, I’d spent the previous three years being dragged around the jungles of SEA by a big German shepherd. Why would I vote for someone who wanted us out of the war?
Thom Hartmann today talked about the Republican platform under Ike in 1956. The Democrats today would be scared shitless to even suggest most of the planks.
I have to vote for HRC in the general, look at the idiots on the other side. I’m reminded of that comedy bit, “Lowered Expectations”
Hey Jason, have you ever read any Henry George? It sounds like you would like his ideas a lot.
A little embarrassed to say I haven’t. I’ll give him a look.
While we are talking literature, I’ll say that a formative book for me was ‘The Flivver King’ by Upton Sinclair.