A conservative who favored impeachment for Bill Clinton thinks George Bush should be impeached
This exchange is honestly shocking to me. I had given up on hearing anything like intellectual honesty or moral consistency out of any conservative. I honestly had given completely up on it.
BILL MOYERS: Bruce you wrote that article of impeachment against Bill Clinton. Why did you think he should be impeached?
BRUCE FEIN: (The Washington Times) I think he was setting a precedent that placed the president above the law. I did not believe that the initial perjury or misstatements– that came perhaps in a moment of embarrassment stemming from the Paula Jones lawsuit was justified impeachment if he apologized. Even his second perjury before the grand jury when Ken Starr’s staff was questioning him, as long as he expressed repentance, would not have set an example of saying every man, if you’re president, is entitled to be a law unto himself. I think Bush’s crimes are a little bit different. I think they’re a little bit more worrisome than Clinton’s. You don’t have to have–
BILL MOYERS: More worrisome?
BRUCE FEIN: More worrisome than Clinton’s– because he is seeking more institutionally to cripple checks and balances and the authority of Congress and the judiciary to superintend his assertions of power. He has claimed the authority to tell Congress they don’t have any right to know what he’s doing with relation to spying on American citizens, using that information in any way that he wants in contradiction to a federal statute called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He’s claimed authority to say he can kidnap people, throw them into dungeons abroad, dump them out into Siberia without any political or legal accountability. These are standards that are totally anathema to a democratic society devoted to the rule of law.
Honest to God – I am shocked.
by now most conservatives know on some level that bush should be impeached. however, conservatives like hube and dave burris also think that impeachment would “help” democrats and anything that “helps” democrats must be bad.
there have always been conservatives like bruce fein or tyler nixon around who take a less “team spirit” view and advocate a more constitutional approach. It is a shame that mike castle falls in with the hubes of the world instead of the nixons.
one note about nixon. i know he is a bit of a darling around here, but he is a big mike castle supporter, so keep that in mind when you feel like placing laurels on his head.
You sound like the one handing out laurels. Anyway, if you point is that “moderate” Republicans need to get a clue and get on the side of the Constitution of the Unted State, I agree. If some Castle-type Republican company man pressed for impeachment it would change everything.
however, conservatives like hube and dave burris also think that impeachment would “help” democrats and anything that “helps” democrats must be bad.
Funny, I don’t recall ever saying that. Jason’s predilection for attributing quotes to people must be contagious, I see.
In actuality, I believe impeachment hearings would serve as a detriment to Democrats. Why do you think Pelosi took it “off the table” when the Dems assumed control of Congress? She knows!
I’d actually love to see impeachment hearings, if only to see if there is actually solid proof of administration crimes rather than political differences and/or legal interpretations.
If you need more “proof” you must reject FEIN’s premise that there is a case for impeachment based on the the fact that Bush….
“claimed the authority to tell Congress they don’t have any right to know what he’s doing with relation to spying on American citizens, using that information in any way that he wants in contradiction to a federal statute called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He’s claimed authority to say he can kidnap people, throw them into dungeons abroad, dump them out into Siberia without any political or legal accountability. “
These facts are public knowledge. What more proof are you looking for? Tapes that these things happened? Try googling CNN or even Fox News.
You are some libertarian. I think you need some Allan Coffee in your milk.
for what it is worth, i was thinking ryan when i wrote hube.
I could care less about helping or hurting either party. Right now, both parties are a detriment to our political system.
And (though I was maybe 10 or 11 at the time) I would have been opposed to Clinton’s impeachment. It was an entirely political issue, even though the case was more sound legally than any argument for impeaching Dubya that I’ve heard.
The Tide is changing.
When one sees comments like this:
by now most conservatives know on some level that bush should be impeached. Anon
I’d actually love to see impeachment hearings, if only to see if there is actually solid proof of administration crimes rather than political differences and/or legal interpretations. Hube
Right now, both parties are a detriment to our political system. Ryan
Point is: both sides are talking. The State of the Nation, has become more important to both sides than than the state of their parties.
As I said Jase, rather than political differences and/or legal interpretations. Like it or not, what you listed falls into that category. Better legal minds than mine and DEFINITELY yours will sort that out … and possibly determine if it’s impeachable or not.
So, we’ll know if Bush has committed impeachable acts if he is impeached.
Super!!
I feel better now.
Impeachment is too easy on Bush….let him continue to kill the GOPs perceived credibility (if it really had any in the first place) and make it a party of religious extremists, Gordon Gekkos, and hypocrites.
“and make it a party of religious extremists, Gordon Gekkos, and hypocrites.”
As opposed to a party of union thugs, environmentalist militants, socialists, black racists (Sharpton and Jackson), and frustrated aging hippies.
Chirp, chirp goes the troll…
Your mind’s eye is not the world, buddy.
Union thugs? What did ya watch F.I.S.T. this weekend? Maybe Hoffa? This isn’t 1920 you insular, authoritarian, monopoly-loving fool.
The others….you just make shit up.
Why don’t you just tell the Jews to stop bitching about the holocaust while you’re at it?
“and make it a party of religious extremists, Gordon Gekkos, and hypocrites.”
“Your mind’s eye is not the world, buddy.”
Gee, I thought you wouldn’t see how ridiculous you were being.
“Why don’t you just tell the Jews to stop bitching about the holocaust while you’re at it?”
Oh that is right. Conservatives hate jews. I forgot to read my manual this morning. We hate them so much we try to support Israel over the legions of liberals telling us that we should be protecting Palestine from the evil Israelis.
I know the Holocaust happened, and know well that President Crazy in Iran (among numerous other radical Islamics) intend to repeat it, throwing in as many of the Great Satan (uh…that is us ‘mericans if’n you didn’t figure it out) with them.
Sometimes you guys are so blinded by liberal insanity.
“Union thugs? What did ya watch F.I.S.T. this weekend? Maybe Hoffa? This isn’t 1920 you insular, authoritarian, monopoly-loving fool.”
Let’s just say I saw them close up and in action first hand. In college I was hired as non-union summer help at a particular government agency. The regulars were unionized, and were glad to have us non-unions on board because it gave them the ability to take vacation days they couldn’t otherwise get in because of personnel demands. We were there with the blessing of the union. Many of the union folks were kind , reasonable people that quickly became close friends.
That was until the contract negotiation went south and a strike was threatened. As a non-union employee I was told that in the event of strike, if I failed to show up I was fired IMMEDIATELY, fired from a pretty sweet summer gig.
That was when these new found friends, all normally rational human being, fell under the group mentatility known as unions. They began threatening any of us non-unions that showed up during the strike with bodily injury, slashing of tires, and other destruction or property or body. Normal, everday, law-abiding citizens transformed into Union thugs. This was the 90’s, not the 20’s.
And for your information….I hate playing Monopoly! More into Trivial Pursuit.
Chris, per usual, is the eternal fountain of nonsensical jibberish,. Nice try anyway. Though it would help if you had at least one iota of intellectual credibility on REAL social and political matters, and actually knew what certain words meant.
Wait for it…..
Wait for it…
WAIT FOR IT!!!!
“I know you are but what am I?”
pwned
If it weren’t for unions, you wouldn’t have the right to work, 5 day work week, 8 hour day, paid family leave, paid vacation, the opportunity for medical insurance (if you’re lucky!), competitive compensation, and so on….
You really want to go back to the 19th century? The 20th must have been too progressive for your taste…
And, one more thing, when did I state Conservatives hate Jews? (except the ones in Hollywood) 😉 I must have cracked the foundation of your cognitive dissonance you rely on from keeping your head from exploding ‘Scanners’ style.
“And, one more thing, when did I state Conservatives hate Jews? (except the ones in Hollywood) ;-)”
Gee…I can’t imagine where I got that from. Lets see… You said the following…
“Why don’t you just tell the Jews to stop bitching about the holocaust while you’re at it?”
This would imply that I either I deny the holocaust happened or that I don’t think it was a really big deal. Since I am conservative, I can only assume that in your statement you are attempting to indict all Conservatives on this issue. Very common liberal ploy, since most libreals like to hold up the holocaust as a great inuhumane tragedy (which it was without a doubt) but in the same breath condemn Israel as a purveyor of genocide against the Palestinians.
But I guess that does hold logic in Von Cracker world.
“Chris, per usual, is the eternal fountain of nonsensical jibberish,. Nice try anyway. Though it would help if you had at least one iota of intellectual credibility on REAL social and political matters, and actually knew what certain words meant.”
I see. So illustrating your absurd statement regarding the Republican party, by making one that was actually less absurd, was lost on you. I apologize if I gave you to much credit.
As far as credibility, I realize my opinions run counter to liberalism, but that hardly means they are counter to logic. Oftentimes, logic is the antithesis of liberal ideal. And so you simply condemn logic as being absurd, because it cannot exist in your warped little world.
“If it weren’t for unions, you wouldn’t have the right to work, 5 day work week, 8 hour day, paid family leave, paid vacation, the opportunity for medical insurance (if you’re lucky!), competitive compensation, and so on…”
That is what I keep hearing. But I also know that without unions we would have affordable, quality American cars, a school system that actually works, state and municipal employees that are respectful and effective (yes SOME are, but many are not). We would be more competitive with the rest of the world. Movies and TV shows would actually be made in America instead of Vancouver. We would not be bleeding jobs overseas, and we woudln’t have public transit that shuts down every 9 months when they find they (like everyone else) will actually have to pay a $10 co-pay.
We would also have individuals who would think for themselves and not be told what to do, and who to vote for. Oh yeah, and all those union employees would have their dues money back to spend as they see fit.
Anything else I can educate you on my friend? You sound like you need it.
Right. It was the unions that forced the Execs to build big shitty gas guzzling cars nobody wanted to buy.
Dudes, Chris might be denser than Mercury….planet or element!
Chris, your grasp of the literal surpasses a 3rd grader, if you actually thought I was saying you’re an anti-Semite. But since you’re fucking freaking out so much, I might have to re-consider.
The point was made because of your stupid, no, sorry, really insightful statement:
“As opposed to a party of union thugs, environmentalist militants, socialists, black racists (Sharpton and Jackson), and frustrated aging hippies.”
That statement reeks of racism and entitlement. It’s the classic Bill O’liely tactic of “Blaming the Victim”. End-of-Story. Just keep on sucking the white, corporate teat, buddy! Maybe some of their “Juice” will satisfy your “wannabe” character.
The rest of your posts are not even worthy of a response. And please try to stop with the itemized retorts….you know, the:
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
You said this: “Blah, blah, blah.”
I say this: “Fart, fart, fart”.
It reveals a lot about you, and it isn’t in the best light….
Buh-bye loser!
“That statement reeks of racism and entitlement.”
I am neither a racist or have some sense of entitlement. In fact, I, like most conservatives, are just the opposite.
We are getting NOWHERE in the country with the constant preoccupation by the left of pushing racist agendas. Everything is “black” this or “hispanic” that. Last time I checked, we were all Americans regardless of our ethnic heritage. Why all the extra labels? Why the preoccupation. Liberals SAY they want us to all be equal, but when the rubber meets the road they are constantly screaming about the differences.
If we just drop all of that labeling crap and were just all Americans, then maybe things would improve dramatically. Look at young kids playing together. When they are young, and have no concept of all the labels, they play together just fine and do not treat others with any disrespect. My kids have lots of different friends, from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. But it is not their “black friend” or “hispanic friend”. Its just their friend.
Eliminating the labels will obviously not eliminate all racism, but in time, will have a huge effect. Of course, that will shrink the liberal special interest groups, so you guys won’t ever let that happen! When it comes to liberal politics, racism sells.
My my…. I see that you cannot stand the light. Sorry if I keep exposing you.
Excuses, excuses. You are what you are, and you don’t have to cognizant for it to be so….
The list of your false equivalencies and specious rebuttals is well documented, and your current assertions are just laughable.
Maybe conservatives CAN be funny!
Hey Von Cracker,
You are fighting the good fight here, but perhaps against an unworthy opponent.
Certainly you know that exploiting racial fears is a key feature of GOP rhetoric and the “blame the victim” kind you see on display everywhere from BushCo to Fox News to our pal Chris here.
Unfortunately, Chris forgot that Ken Mehlman has recently been out apologizing for this racist tactic on behalf of republicans. Guess who didn’t get the memo?
Thanks Oedipa!
He’s nothing more than a Rush/O’Liely stenographer.
Peace,
VC
throw in a little NRO and some Yon seasoning while you are at it
Maybe the NRO Cruise is on his agenda for next year…
“and your current assertions are just laughable.”
Yes…I know..so absurb you just don’t know how to respond. Dodging the argument again…because…well…I just happen to be right.