Question

Filed in National by on October 11, 2007

what is the difference between capitalism and democracy?

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  1. Disbelief says:
    October 11, 2007 at 9:42 am

    Its like asking “What’s the difference between breathing and eating?” They are two different things, yet both are apparently necessary to ensure a decent life.

  2. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:04 am

    Unfortunately, many conservatives believe they’re one in the same….

    What makes our country’s ‘experiment’ interesting is the balance of capitalism and democracy. Capitalism, in it’s purest form, would be retarded by democracy, since the ecomonic system is forced to take into consideration the wants and retrictions the populace places on it. Subsequently, capitalists are unable to maximize profits, which, to them, is the be-all and end-all.

  3. Disbelief says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:07 am

    “capitalists are unable to maximize profits, which, to them, is the be-all and end-all.”

    Then how do you explain Halliburton?

  4. Dave says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:08 am

    They are very much NOT the same thing.

    Capitalism has brought us every modern convenience, health care breakthrough and innovation we’ve EVER had.

    Democracy has brought us…well…we don’t have a king, I guess.

  5. anon says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:09 am

    Capitalism is the fire. Democracy is the carburetor that controls the mixture of labor and capital. That keeps the fire doing useful work instead of going out of control.

    Sorry, I’ve been listening to Car Talk again.

  6. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:10 am

    since they aren’t the same thing dave, what are they in your opinion.

  7. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:10 am

    democracy has brought us freedom…I know, a small thing to a republican, but none the less an important one to us Liberals

  8. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:12 am

    Halliburton is in Dubai

  9. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:28 am

    “democracy has brought us freedom…I know, a small thing to a republican, but none the less an important one to us Liberals”

    Thanks DV. I really needed a good laugh this morning. Good to know I can count on you.

    Let’s see liberals and freedom. Liberals want to take away as much of the money I make as they can. Because of liberals, kids are no longer free to pray in school. Because of liberals, in some places, American citizens can’t even carry a firearm for protection of themselves and their family. Because of liberals the most innocent among us are routinely, and LEGALLY MURDERED. And freedom is important to liberals? The only thing important to liberals is the power to tell me what I can and cannot do.

    You want to know what brought us freedom? The men and women of the U.S. Military is what has brought and kept our freedom. Plain and simple.

  10. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:29 am

    And yes DV. That includes you too.

  11. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:30 am

    the military win wars, the diplomats keep them from happening Chris. You truly are pathetic.

    Yet, the Repbulicans want to SPY on us to keep us free…

  12. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:31 am

    how do you Explain costa rica, they don’t have a military yet they have a democracy…

  13. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:32 am

    How about answering the post Chrissy? To deep a thought for you?

  14. Dave says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:33 am

    DV, you planning to have a bad day today, too?

  15. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:37 am

    share your wisdom dave. Please! What’s the answer to the question I have posed for today?

  16. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:54 am

    “How about answering the post Chrissy? To deep a thought for you?”

    Not hardly. A little too easy. I apparently give you to much credit if you don’t know the answer to this.

    Capitalism is an economic engine which operates on the model of supply and demand. It produces best when unencumbered by artificial limits placed on it by external entitites such as government. Capitalism allows anyone with an creative idea for meeting a demand to succeed if they work hard and smart enough.

    Democracy is a model of government in which every single governmental decision is voted on by the populous. This form works especially well in small communities where group votes can be effectively taken on each issue.

    A Federal Republic, which the U.S. is, is also a type of government. Governments as a whole work best when they limit their actions. Governments responsibilities should be safety (police and fire), security (military), and general law and order.

    Government and Economy should be two separate systems. So DV, to answer your question, Republicans DO NOT think democracy and capitalism are the same thing. Democracy (or in this case Federal Republic) should stay the HELL out of the capitalistic engine that keeps it a float. In other words, you have NO RIGHT to my money. Got it?

  17. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 10:57 am

    See! Chris conflates the two, a very common mistake. And, BTW Chris, go wrap yourself in a flag when you’re carrying that cross.

    Kudos to the military, of course; but implying that non-military citizens had nothing to do with the success of this country and being (once) an inspiration of freedom is a complete disservice to all of those who came before us.

    I don’t see most liberals chipping away at our freedoms just for the notion of being more secure. You project so much! It’s hilarious!

    Kids are allowed to pray in schools, on their own time or within a moment of silence; the law is that schools cannot mandate prayer.

    I’m not going to address the other falsehoods (or at least massive hyperbole) you’d mentioned, but here’s a question for you:

    How many people has been “Legally Murdered” by the actions of the Bush administration? (And when I say “Legally”, I’m assuming that would be the response the Bush lawyers.)

  18. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:10 am

    “Democracy (or in this case Federal Republic) should stay the HELL out of the capitalistic engine that keeps it a float. In other words, you have NO RIGHT to my money. Got it?”

    So, I guess Chris, you have NO RIGHT, to use our roads, etc.., or bask in the glory of our government-subsidized military either…

    What constitutes “Law and Order”? Keeping Americans from being fleeced? How about making sure what we buy on good faith doesn’t kill or injure? (unless it’s a gun 😉 )

  19. Phantom says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Thanks Chris,
    I needed more insight into your twisted world view. Prayer in school was eliminated by the courts interpreting the constitution. I know that you aren’t a big fan of every piece of the constitution (since it gives freedoms and allows the government to actually mean something) but blaming the lack of school prayer on liberals is just another bullshit hack attack. The only truth is that liberals can quite clearly see that prayer in schools, WHEN SUPPORTED AND REQUIRED BY SCHOOLS, violates the separate but equal clause of the constitution. No one said that a student of thier own violation can’t pray in school during a free moment.

    Now, onto firearms. Liberals are not for taking away firearms (Canada has more firearms per capita than the U.S. but somehow has less violence and is considered a liberal country) but rather for correctly using and regulating firearms. There is a difference. A hunter with a rifle is fine but a homeowner with an AK-47 is absolutely unneccessary other than to commit mass slaughter. Also, multiple weapons are unneccessary without valid reasons, ie multiple hunters, collectors, etc., that should be tracked. Liberals are for laws on firearms that make them safer and better informed for those that want to own the firearm. This way when an AK-47 was used on the streets to kill 3-5 police it could be recognized very quickly whether it came from a law abiding citizen or was illegally obtained. To date that analysis CANNOT happen.

    Finally, the abortion topic that you love to trot out to make yourself superior. Liberals advocate the FREEDOM to choose what a woman wishes to do with her body BUT would prefer that abortions don’t happen. HOWEVER, Liberals advocate adoption and other methods but don’t believe in hiding the issue when a person CHOOSES to have an abortion. WHEN conservatives have changed the pro-life movement to invest heavily in adoption then you can sit on your fucking pedestal and start to chime that making abortions illegal might have some merit.

    Finally, liberals believe that these laws are neccessary for idiots like you who would use the freedom of anarchy to kill random people with your high-powered rifles while making others pray whether they believe or not. Yeah, sounds like freedom to me.

  20. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:12 am

    didn’t Mary have a choice? I was pretty sure she was asked if she wanted a child?

  21. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:20 am

    “How many people has been “Legally Murdered” by the actions of the Bush administration? (And when I say “Legally”, I’m assuming that would be the response the Bush lawyers.)”

    By the estimates you idiots throw around, I would assume you mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 or so. Of course, most of those were actually killed by terrorists (what you call insurgents) and not actually directly by our military. But you liberals tend to blend truths anyway.

    But assuming I let you have all 50,000….how does that compare to the 40 million abortions in the U.S. since 1973? Answer: The Iraq war has had 1/8 of one percent (0.125%) of the casualties Roe vs. Wade has had. Again…a mere minor point.

    “Kids are allowed to pray in schools, on their own time or within a moment of silence; the law is that schools cannot mandate prayer.”

    Dude, get with the program. Moment of silences were thrown out in the 80’s (while I was in school) because of fears kids would pray. In most schools, kids can’t even form a prayer group before school on campus. So much for freedom of assembly.

    “I’m not going to address the other falsehoods (or at least massive hyperbole) you’d mentioned”

    Translation: Chris is right and I cannot refute that.

  22. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:25 am

    Chrissy, Chrissy, Chrissy

    Democracy doesn’t mean you get to impose your religious beliefs on me.

  23. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:28 am

    maybe capitalism does

  24. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:31 am

    “Prayer in school was eliminated by the courts interpreting the constitution.”

    Interpreting….precisely. The Constittution guarantees a right TO religious freedom, not a right to be free FROM religion. And as I indicated in my above post, you are incorrect. Kids are being prevented from praying on their own volition.

    “Liberals advocate the FREEDOM to choose what a woman wishes to do with her body BUT would prefer that abortions don’t happen.”

    And what choice does the child have with their body? None. You can twist it all you want…but it is murder of the most innocent among us.

    “HOWEVER, Liberals advocate adoption and other methods but don’t believe in hiding the issue when a person CHOOSES to have an abortion. WHEN conservatives have changed the pro-life movement to invest heavily in adoption”

    Really? Then why do liberals fight when ever a pro-life group wants to open up and information center (on adoption and other choices) down the street from a Planned Parenthood clinic? They act as if presenting real choices to the woman would somehow be a bad thing. The Pro-Life movement is heavily involved in promoting adoption. Your are so full of it.

  25. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:35 am

    And what choice does the child have with their body?

    I assume you are ok with circumcision

    I particularly love how you call it a child too. The great move by the anti abortionists to enliven the unborn. It paints the picture to be a kid in a sand box building castles and all on his own in the belly of a mommy.

    so cute

    so wrong

  26. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:38 am

    “didn’t Mary have a choice? I was pretty sure she was asked if she wanted a child?”

    Yes. Of course. I forgot. It clearly says in the bible that the angel said unto Mary “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son….the Son of God….unless you don’t want to…in which case feel free to grab a coat hanger and murder Jesus here and now”

  27. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:40 am

    “so cute

    so wrong”

    That’s funny. My kids came out as kids. I didn’t see some magic flash as they emerged that transformed a lifeless mass into a child. In fact, they seemed to have quite a bit of personality while still in the womb. And my wife can tell you they most certainly were not lifeless.

  28. anon says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:40 am

    OK Chris, let’s chant a Hindu mantra over the loudspeakers every homeroom, so that we may attain Union with Brahman.

    You are OK with that, right?

    Oh wait, it’s Thursday – we have to do the Wiccan prayer.

  29. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:41 am

    So women don’t have a choice?

    is that democratic?

    or is that capitalism?

  30. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:42 am

    so did you tell your wife she was having kids? or ask her?

  31. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:43 am

    and your sperm was in the shape of an 8lb baby boy too.

    too funny.

    I guess I shouldn’t take a dump and flush it because the living organism in my crap are going to die?

  32. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:50 am

    “So women don’t have a choice?”

    In this instance…no. I mean, once the child is born do they have a choice to terminate it? I assume you WOULD consider that murder. So why is the child any less protected before it emerges?

    I am not a masogynist. I am a huge supporter of women, and raise my kids to believe that men and women are completely equal. I want women to be just as free as men in this country. I also would like to see them make the same amount (if not more) than men because some of the best bosses and co-workers I have had have been and are women.

    But when it comes down to ending a life for the convenience of the woman, there is no justification for murder. If the woman’s life is in immediate danger, then and only then can it be a consideration. And yes….the father needs to be held totally accountable for child.

  33. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:51 am

    “so did you tell your wife she was having kids? or ask her?”

    She told me we were going to…

  34. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:52 am

    “and your sperm was in the shape of an 8lb baby boy too.”

    Not that I couldn’t have handled it….but no.

    So when does the great DV determine life to begin?

  35. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 11:53 am

    ohhhhhh, so your wife decided?

  36. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    I have to take a dump, I’ll say a prayer for the little guy before I flush him.

    I shall name him Eric (no offense to any eric’s that are readers of course)

  37. Phantom says:
    October 11, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Wow Chris,
    Amazing insights that are completely off base with what I stated.

    1. Kids are prevented from praying using a SCHOOL MANDATED moment of silence. Please find an instance where a student wanted to pray, was not in a class (where many a prayer is said before a test), and could accomadate the prayer (ie Islam towards Mecca) where a school forbid the student from practicing and the administrator was not punished for violating the FREEDOM to practice thier religion.

    2. So you are stating that children are capable of making decisions right out of the gate. I am sure that with this belief you assume that it used the bathroom and was hungry just because it decided too rather than out of pure neccessity. Please stop being a moron when you state something idiotic. The “child” (which is debatable) is incapable of making any independent decisions while in the womb or even out of the womb for a significant amount of time. (Hence parents) Mother nature proves this point every freaking day (maybe you need to watch Animal Planet or Discovery) by displaying that animals left without care are killed or die b/c they are not independent. Therefore it is up to the mother whose body houses the “child” to make the decisions. If for some reason that decision is abortion (which you can throw the first stone at her the minute you have never done anything wrong) then please explain why having it done legally and safely is wrong as oppossed to illegally and unsafely? Answer is you can’t so as normal Chris is seriously deluded and living in a world where freedom means telling others how to live and judging them on those standards.

    Finally, on the topic of adoption. Please cite that the money used to support the pro-life movement is being utilized in a significant capacity to open up adoption centers and nurseries to care for the children until adoption. Also, I assume they are putting money into orphanages for those that may not be adopted. NO THEY ARE NOT. RATHER YOU WANT TO SCREAM ABOUT A PROCEDURE BEING LEGAL RATHER THAN SOLVE THE FUCKING PROBLEM. NORMAL CONSERVATIVE BULLSHIT.

    The reason that there is opposition to those centers is that they do not promote and assist with adoption but rather they work just to discourage an abortion. They do not assist with helping to fix the circumstances and issues with why the women went to seek an abortion and they lie about the actual abortion procedure. They even work to masquerade as abortion clinics to hide thier true nature of lies and judgement. That is why there is opposition. Go ahead and open an adoption center that assists women with carrying the baby to term and giving it up for adoption to a caring family and see how that works. Then you might see the circumstances that bring about abortions and it just might knock you off your high horse.

    What you propose as freedom is just greater anarchy where liberals propose freedom combined with order and stability. While there has to be checks and balances (something Bushians can’t abide) to keep things in check it provides a greater emphasis on the correct amount of freedom and order as designated by society and not by government (ie Bushian wiretapping).

  38. Protack for Governor says:
    October 11, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    Capatalism applies to how the economy works and Democracy applies to how government works.

    Both need active involvement and choices to expressed by individuals.

    After a lot of travel around the world both have weaknesses but are a lot better than what the alternative is.

    Have a great day.

  39. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    OK Chris, let’s chant a Hindu mantra over the loudspeakers every homeroom, so that we may attain Union with Brahman.

    You are OK with that, right?”

    Actually, in my son’s class the other day, the parents of a muslim child in his class came in and educated the class on Ramadan. I know, you assume that being the right-wing nutjob you have convinced yourselves I am, that this would upset me. Quite the contrary. Nor would I be upset if that child and other muslims in the class met for prayer.

    But where I do have issues is where you got to public school “holiday” concerts and the kids are prohibited from singing any song that contains the word “Christmas”. In the private school my son went to last year, they sang Christmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzaa songs. Of course, I realize that you libbies have no problem with Kwanzaa because there is no religious backing to the holiday. Of course the guy who created it was and still is a blatant racists…but again…you won’t let facts get in the way.

  40. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Hey Chris, you know you’re debating someone who’s actually worked in the public school systems?

    So don’t fucking tell me what I have and have not observed during my time as an educator! Plenty, if not all, offer students opportunities to pray, even in premeditated, organized ways such as student clubs/groups. Students can do it on their own too, as long as it’s not disrupting the teacher/school agenda at that moment in time. And in cases of local and national tragedies (not exclusive either), many schools will facilitate a moment of silence.

    And to your “Legally Murdered” retort, what I’m getting from you is that we’re not culpable at all since another group is doing it to.

  41. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    “And to your “Legally Murdered” retort, what I’m getting from you is that we’re not culpable at all since another group is doing it to.”

    Not at all. Simply pointing out that the mass numbers usually attributed to it are all placed squarely on the U.S., when in fact, most of the deaths were at the hands of the enemy. But again, not withstanding, a mere drop in the bucket compared to abortion.

  42. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    “Hey Chris, you know you’re debating someone who’s actually worked in the public school systems?

    So don’t fucking tell me what I have and have not observed during my time as an educator! ”

    And people wonder why I sacrifice to send my kids to private school. Case closed.

  43. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    In the private school my son went to last year, they sang Christmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzaa songs.

    then send your kid to private school again and quit groaning.

  44. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    This post got way of topic!

    Kwanzaa? WTF? Where do you come up with this shit? Ground Control to Major Chris? Hello?!?

    Anyway, German Potato Salad makes a nice summertime side dish!

    p.s. – teaching the basics of ALL world’s major religions, as one would history or literature, does not violate the constitution. It’s tantamount to teaching the classics, Roman and Greek gods and the like. But to use those opportunities to proselytize a specific belief certainly would. If there were public school functions, such as Hanukkah pageants and the Wintertime Pagan festival, I’m sure Chris would feel differently….

  45. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    “And people wonder why I sacrifice to send my kids to private school. Case closed.”

    Good one! Maybe they’ll be better human beings than their self-important, aloof old man.

  46. Dorian Gray says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    I still can’t believe this douche bag procreated.

  47. donviti says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    democracy dorian

  48. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    “I still can’t believe this douche bag procreated.”

    Had to. Had to leave you libs with more p hard worker’s pockets to pick under the guise of “fair taxation” when I am gone.

  49. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    “Good one! Maybe they’ll be better human beings than their self-important, aloof old man.”

    A gee. A simple “You are right” would have sufficed.

  50. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 2:04 pm

    “If there were public school functions, such as Hanukkah pageants and the Wintertime Pagan festival, I’m sure Chris would feel differently….”

    Reread #39…already answered.

    “This post got way of topic!”

    Good back to topic. Democracy is government (not ours, but government), capitalism is an economic system . Two different entities. Republicans are not confused on this, but it appears libbies are.

    Make it simple: STAY OUT OF MY WALLET!

  51. Phantom says:
    October 11, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    Gladly Chris if you will just give up your share of anything that is paid for using any money generated by government funds. Stop spouting your nonsense and come to grips with reality. Capitalism is not perfect and neither is government but they need each other to continue to innovate and grow. Look at China, thier economy is growing leaps and bounds due to the influence of capitalism and the government left it alone to allow for the exportation of dangerous goods, the overabundance of pollution, and the mass slaughter of a significant portion of its citizens. Now the government is starting to reign in the capitalism before the public completely revolts.

  52. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Um, I re-read that post (#39) and you’re clearly talking about your son’s multicultural experience in PRIVATE school…I was referring to public. No need to respond though; you’re as predictable as my daily 9am constitution.

    But back on topic:

    If you want to run the government like Bu$hCo has run this war (on the cheap)…expect the same result. You get what you pay for, as the capitalists would say…

  53. Chris says:
    October 11, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    “Um, I re-read that post (#39) and you’re clearly talking about your son’s multicultural experience in PRIVATE school…I was referring to public. No need to respond though; you’re as predictable as my daily 9am constitution.”

    And if I didn’t care that he got that kind of experience in private school, why would I care if the same experience was had at public school. At least TRY to use a little logic.

  54. Von Cracker says:
    October 11, 2007 at 3:41 pm

    Can’t make that assumption, Chris. I just wanted to know your position on something like that in a public school setting. It sounds to me that all religions are free game in any setting, in your mind. I agree with that, as long as the subject matter is only to inform about its history, etc. No saying “It’s the only true way” BS. Non-believers and agnostics deserve air-time too, then.

    Christmas songs can go a little too far, sometimes. Depends if it’s a “Christ is born” song or a Burl Ives non-religious classic….

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