I’ll believe it when I see it…call me a skeptic
keep in mind this awesome program, saved us from those morons at Ft. Dix, the other morons in Miami and the, gasp, Dirty Bomber, that turned out to be a nutcase too
Instead of blanket immunity, the tentative proposal would give the federal courts special authorization to hear classified evidence and decide whether the phone companies should be held liable. House Democrats have been working out the details of their proposal in the last few days, officials said, and expect to take it to the House floor for a vote on Thursday.
I’m not going to jump up and down. Handing this stuff over to the courts is almost as bad as immunity. Christ, Exxon still hasn’t paid Alaska the 4.4 billion it owes for the Valdez thing. So I ask you, why would turning something over to the courts be considered a win? You know as well as I do that they are going to not turn over evidence b/c it is secret and will aide the enemy. I mean good lord, these assholes get subpeaoned (can’t fucking spell it) who cares how I spell it actually! The word doesn’t mean shit to Bush, Myers, Bolton and the rest of those law breaking SOB’s!
So sure let the courts decide. Hopefully it will go to the supreme court and then maybe justice will…who the fuck am I kidding, I can’t even write that line without flat out wanting to off myself.
And the NY Repubs are threatening to impeach Spitzer. Everyone needs a civics class, DV.
If Spitzer is impeached based on his succumbing to the needs of his little Spitzer, then yes, that’s a joke.
If, however, he did commit money laundering, a Federal Offense, then, well, there is no question about it. He would be ineligible to be gov anyway at that point.
he is screwed both ways.
he got found because he was moving money around in shell companies
I’m not defending Spitzer, he was a hypocrite. What I have a problem with is what outrages republicans.
If they’d just rewrite the outdated FISA law that requires probable cause, even after the fact, to conduct electronic surveillance on foreign nationals, none of this exercise in trial lawyer welfare would be necessary.
For example, word is that when Hez big baddie Imad Mugniyah was killed by a car bomb last month in Syria, there was a lot of telecom chatter indicating he was killed by either a rival terror group or a personal rival. We had to stop listening to it under the FISA restrictions, and now we’ll never know. Of course, the Hezzies are blaming Israel for the job, and that will get all the media play. If you don’t recognize the name, Imad Mugniyah was (allegedly) responsible for the Khobar Towers bombing, and also the Beirut barracks bombing that killed 241 Marines. Anyway, that’s the stuff we’re trying to listen in on, not Jason calling his mommy for her brownie recipe for the Code Pink bake sale.
Oh, and it’s spelled subpoena, which is Latin for “under the penis” because you’re about to get your sack whacked.
G-rex, let’s hope it is only in love. Otherwise there is a problem becuase as Americans we need to all support each other. where did pan-americanism go? Did we throw that out with a “multi-cultural” society? Americans need to support each other no matter what the political stripe if we want to survive the next century and you know what I am talking about. So please do not pretend you do not.
How do we know they’re not listening to Jason talking to his mom?
??? I’m not following that at all, Brian.
Pandora, FISA stands for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. FOREIGN! If a call between two people outside the US gets routed through the US telecom network, it’s still foreign, but not according to the FISA provisions. If Osama calls Jason’s mommy from his cave to get her brownie recipe, we ought to know about it, but under FISA we can’t. But what do I know? Here’s a hint, I was a 98G for four years. Go to http://www.goarmy.com and type in 98G where it says search.
As far as I can tell, the only evidence against Spitzer is a little hanky panky, nothing financial. Of course, the news changes daily.
From CNN: “Tedisco, a Republican, called for Spitzer’s immediate resignation after prosecutors unsealed an affidavit detailing a rendezvous in a Washington hotel room last month.”
Pandora says: “What I have a problem with is what outrages republicans.”
I couldn’t agree more. If the only issue is his “little Spitzer”, then I don’t understand all of the hoopla. Are we still that Puritan ? These same shenanigans aren’t party-specific; boys will be boys (and the same goes for girls). I wish the public and the parties could accept that and deal with the real issues.
I mean, G-Rex, as Americans we need to stick up for each other. The world is a big place. That means please do not play with me as an American, and I will listen to whoever I want outside of of this country. This is FISA. But inside no messing aroung, unless you want to see how long it takes for the bastille to be stormed.
Is that clear?
Anyway, that’s the stuff we’re trying to listen in on, not Jason calling his mommy for her brownie recipe for the Code Pink bake sale.
In which case, going to the FISA court to get a subpoena to keep listening (and to keep the telcos shielded) should not be a big deal. Unless, of course, you are a subscriber to the notion that the Executive should be able to operate with no oversight or checks whatsoever. Because the extent of how much the Executive is actually checked is the only thing at issue here.
What I do not like is the discussion they are having that this is a “continuation” of the Alien and Sedition Acts. If they want to replay that let’s go back to 1804 and see what happened and what my family did last time and I can promise you will happen again. You like the 1812 overture? Or you better ship my ass to Argentina now….yes, you ISI and heritage foundation people, you want to play rough? You cannot imagine the can of whambulance and smackdown you are opening up…politically speaking….
Enjoy your power while you have it assh##es. Watch what the vote does.
Very weak, shatterboom.
If you would like to see what happened the last time we as a family encountered arbitrary power, I would be happy to provide picture going back to 1776 and the year 1215 when habeas corpus was enacted. We will accept you if you want to be king, but do not play power without being honest about it.
Otherwise expect a ride in the whaaaambulance.
Foreign press says Spitzer was going to reopen the 911 mess! can’t have that blow up in the bushites faces…! Spitzer was a stupid jerk, don’t these fools know they are all being watched and taped! If they step out of line….whammo, you were sleeping with whores! Like the rest of them don’t…so why should Spitzer be forced to resign…what about Vitter?
If I gave a fuck about being taped, I would not have the courage to be honest. So I say who gives a shit about his whores. If you want to see what the family vote can do, just keep the pressure up a**holes and keep focusing on your best friends instead of your enemies. And soon no one is going to be happy when you see a Giant D for democrat stamped on everything you want.
Shirley – everything I have read details his shuffling money around from point A to B to C…until it landed in the ring’s hands (or something unspeakable…d’oh). That would be money laundering…the thing many, many mobs are actually arrested on. Uh, before others blast me…no, I am not saying Spitzer participated in the mob. Maybe his little Spitzer did, but he didn’t.
Honestly, I couldn’t care less about him not controlling his little Spitzer, except for the comedic effect.
“Foreign press says Spitzer was going to reopen the 911 mess!”
Once more no political event can occur unless it’s part of a larger conspiracy.
Sorry, Liz, when Spitzer is under the sway of his penis, he is far too intelligent to be a paranoid 9/11 truther.
Another man led by the penis instead of the thinking aparatus. That is all. I have no idea what Liz was talking about. But I do know that any disccussion of using FISA as an extension of the Alien and Sedition acts (which both Heritage and ISI have) goads me and pisses me off. Who little Elliot wants to have sex with, I could care less.
“In which case, going to the FISA court to get a subpoena to keep listening…should not be a big deal.”
It wouldn’t be a big deal if the existing FISA law didn’t require probable cause, but it does. That’s why it has to be changed. This all goes back to the quaint notion of treating international terrorism as a law enforcement issue rather than an intelligence issue.
It wouldn’t be a big deal if the existing FISA law didn’t require probable cause, but it does.
I just want this to be out there for everyone to marvel at.
So then, the government should be able to listen to Jason calling his mommy for her brownie recipe for the Code Pink bake sale?
Bet you’d have a different story if this was the Clinton Administration with utterly unchecked power to spy on anyone.
Cassandra, shut your stupid pie hole for two seconds and listen. The F in FISA stands for FOREIGN!!! This has nothing to do with Eliot Spitzer, or Jason and his mommy, any other American citizen for that matter, unless that citizen is receiving a call from a cave in Waziristan. Stop trying to make this look like a domestic Big Brother play.
I’m well aware of what FISA stands for. I also certainly understand that BushCo has been collecting up astonishing amounts of data (see here and here) that are unlikely to be Foreign. Besides, what if Jason was calling his mommy for a brownie recipe from Paris, FR? Does that make him Foreign then? You are willing to trust your government not to decide that you are Foreign, or that you are Foreign the minute you go on your next Caribbean cruise. You are willing to trust these folks not use this giant investment on you. I have no such trust. And as long as there is a Constitution and Bill of Rights, I shouldn’t have to.
Given the revival of the TIA program, there is no reason not to believe that BushCo is gathering up more data than those who are Foreign. (And they get to say who that is, I suppose.)
If these telcos were doing work for the government on the up and up, they’d have little to worry about. And a subpeona gives them all the immunity they’d need. But you apparently don’t mind handing over a bunch of your rights for the sake of getting the Foreign. So much for smaller government.
Truth is… we have no idea who they are listening in on, and that’s the problem. Everything is classified.
And if foreign really means foreign are we saying that we’re not listening in on “foreigners” conversing in this country?
And G Rex, surely we can discuss/disagree without being insulting. You owe Cassandra an apology.