Hillary for VP? Oh HELL NO !!
Have you noticed that without missing a beat, the MSM has pivoted from Hillary “the fighter” to Hillary “the possible VP” pick? They just need to be yammering insipidly about something don’t they?
George Stephanopoulos was an especially shrill Clinton for VP booster this morning. “It will heal the party.”
I call bullshit on that.
The party will heal just fine once Democrats get a load of John McCain. Of course, Republicans will be pulling for Clinton as number two. They’ve been licking their chops over her stratospherically high negatives and the fact that she takes the Iraq war out of play.
Bottom line: She’d be a disaster waiting to happen. And, oh yeah, she doesn’t put any swing states into play.
Besides Could an Obama Presidency handle Bills Baggage and his knack for causing trouble
There would always be two camps at odds with each other, just as Cheney and Powell were at odds.
We have evolved. Just as Bush/Cheney worked together, as did Gore/Clinton, the next VP will need to run the “shadow” government of the president.
NO! NO! NO!
Big – HUGE – mistake!
Hillary set the tone for her campaign. She threw the kitchen sink, and had she kept her attacks to the issues I would feel differently. But she didn’t.
Her primary campaign is already a 527 ad waiting to happen.
It makes my head spin.
the next VP will need to run the “shadow” government of the president.
*
Jimmy Carter for VP? /snarkinoodles
El Somnambulo understands the outcry against Hillary for Veep. However, ES has a different perspective.
Not much has been revealed of the Somnambulant One’s past. It is indeed shrouded in mystery and lubricated by too much tequila. However, in his days as a Lucha Libre luchador for the Azteca Promocione, he learned how Hillary can become an asset instead of a liability.
It is called the ‘well-executed face turn’. Most wrestlers are either babyfaces (good) or heels (evil). Hillary has played the heel to Obama’s babyface.
As in the universe, however, nothing is permanent. Just as Hulk Hogan went from demigod to despised in less than 3 minutes by crossing Sting (a truly dastardly move, even worse than rubbing oil on his daughter’s butt) and joining the NWO, Hillary can turn babyface by saying that she deliberately put Obama through this gauntlet b/c she didn’t believe he was tough enough, but now he’s proven to be the toughest of them all. She can even raise his hand in triumph and perhaps, if Michelle acquiesces, rub oil on his butt.
If that happens, all will be right with the cosmos…until she engages in the inevitable doublecross down the line.
ES –
“Good Lord! That’s Howard Wolfson’s music!” – Jim Ross
El Somnambulo is Spanish for “The Somnambulo”
As for Clinton, I rescue my comment from DWA:
So you are not going to get the “girl power” themed tea party you’ve been dreaming about and the Helen Reddy LP’s will have to go back down in the basement for a few more years, but think about the big picture…
Doesn’t that tell you something?
As for me I’m glad we have a Democratic nominee that does not have a 54 percent unfavorable rating and who 58 percent of voters say is “not honest and trustworthy.”
It is a bit of a non sequitur, but I want to gloat a bit more.
RickJ: Now THAT’s funny!
As a thank-you, El Somnambulo offers up the following to you and the Goddess of the Moons:
http://allhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/04/wow-hulk-hogan-sunscreens-brooke-hogans.html
RickJ: Now THAT’S funny. As a thank you, ES offers up the following to you and to the Goddess of the Moons:
http://allhollywood.blogspot.com/2008/04/wow-hulk-hogan-sunscreens-brooke-hogans.html
El Somnambulo has a warning for the cheeky jason 330: Do not incur the wrath of the Beast Who Slumbers lest ye be placed in the unbreakable Siesta Hold…
Oh, please, do! We Republicans would just love showing clips of the Democratic vice presidential nominee saying that the Democratic presidential nominee wasn’t qualified to be president, but that the Republican presidential nominee was! 🙂
But it’ll never happen: Mr Obama would know that if Mrs Clinton was just a heartbeat away from the presidency, he wouldn’t have many heartbeats left!
Like I said, Dana… she is a 527 ad waiting to happen.
She doesn’t bring much to Obama, except the 50+1 thinking that has got to go and the easiest way to dive a stake into its heart is for the Clintons to just lose.
And really, does anyone think that HRC wants to be VP?
Cassandra, I’m not sure what Hillary wants. Pumping up the WV primary seems to be setting the stage for yet another “electability” argument.
The race is over. I can only assume one reason she’s still running is to weaken Obama.
I think her victory speech tomorrow night will be telling.
28 years of Clintons and Bush’s, time to change the sheets…hell no, hell no. Let the Clintons take their old bags back to Arkansas…and fade to black.
HRC for VP will just keep the DLC on life support.
Time to pull the plug.
I’ll take Richardson or Clark.
OK, for the sake of argument, here is why Obama needs Clinton on the ticket.
There is no one on this planet that wants to put a bullet in Obama that would want Hillary as President. It is what has provided a protective shield around GWB for the past 7 years. Who would want Darth Cheney as President?
Good point Geek. Too bad it’s the ONLY good point.
I know liberals hate reality……..here’s the problem. Clinton was a sure thing to win the Presidency. She would have carried Ohio, PA and Florida and thus the election. The Clintons, the only dems to win the White House since 1980, have been screwed by the liberal left, who, by the way, have NEVER won an election in the US. So odd, after all, it was Hillary who unveiled a universal health care plan and Bill who did more for African Americans than any President in our lifetime. You ungrateleful libs, when will you learn? Better hope Barry doesn’t choke. Don’t look now, but Obama is trailing in PA, Ohio and Florida. If Barry doesn’t carry those states, he loses, regardless of these “swing” states libs love to dream about. This fantasy daydreaming is why the dems have such a hard time winning Presidential elections, as the recent past so obviously demonstrates. Math must not be their strong suit or the electoral college just too complicated to grasp. Hey, here’s an idea, let’s trash the Clinton’s and toss a first term, liberal senator into the ring. Get ready for the firing line if Barry doesn’t win. It will be the greatest purging of liberal elitists from the Party you’ve ever seen. It will make Reagan proud. The dems will have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in an election they couldn’t possibly lose…..unless of course, they do.
Thank you for your concern, troll.
We’ll take our chances.
Clinton was a sure thing to win the Presidency.
If this was true, she’d be the candidate by now.
Anybody else nostalgic to see the Old Talking Points trotted out again?
And what is an elitest anyway? Please define, because it means so many different things to different people.
Or are you just chock-full of meaningless slogans and wishful-thinking talking points?
Ugh.
Ah, Cass – I see we’re on the same Reading Comp level!
Great minds and such….
🙂
Anybody who refers to progressives as “libs” isn’t going to get much respect at this web site. Just sayin’.
I think there should be a qualitative difference between the parties, and I think if the Democrats lose this one, I have a feeling we will be looking at McShame until he purges the country of people and Ted Turner will get to eat the people.
Sorry. I meant progressives. BTW: What’s wrong with the word liberal???
I just find it fascinating the Clinton’s have been so villified. Practically, I find it alarming when you look at the electoral college map. It might be old talking points, then again, it might be true.
The race is about three states and their 68 electoral college votes. Those states are Fla, Ohio and Pa. Win two of the three and you probably win. Win all three and it’s over, you’re in the White House. After all, even the liberal press admits there are only 10 states in play at best. The rest are accounted for. So, maybe it’s too early to be really concerned. Maybe those Clinton voters and Reagan dems will somehow identify with Obama and not McCain. But right now, the polling ain’t good.
This website is impartial and tracks races all over the country. Look at the polling data in FL, PA, and Oh. Look real close.
McCain easily beats Obama by carrying two of the three (with PA a narrow win for obama). Those same demos that favor Clinton favor McCain even more so.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May11.html
Hillary easily beats McCain and breaks 300 in the electoral college by sweeping those three states.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May11.html
I’m just saying. Can someone on this site show me the MATH that gets Obama to 270 by excluding two of the those three key states?
The race is about three states and their 68 electoral college votes.
The days of “tail wags dog” poltics are over.
It is not about narrowing winning three states by being the most “moderate” it is about winning 50 states by having a vision for this country that resonates with Americans along all points of the left/right spectrum.
If you are a Dem, you are clinging to a dead religion. If you are a Republican – thank you for your concern trolling.
OH, PA and FL are not the be all and end all when you consider now that MO, OR, WA, NM, LA, VA, and some other southern/western traditional red states are firmly in play, with Obama in the lead or within the margin of error…
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/
You are using old convensional wisdom which is no longer applicable.
Besides, throwing the fate of any Dem into the hands of OH and FL is downright scary these days.
FL is a mess when it comes to elections and voting. I’m really uncomfortable leaving this election in the hands of their elected officials.
Ohio… well, where to begin. Ohio has consistently voted against its economic interest and then seems shocked when another plant shuts down.
Counting on these states is a dangerous game, indeed. I prefer Obama’s map.
Okay, it’s a rainy day. I’ll keep playing.
WA and OR have voted D the last five Presidential elections and are solidily D and not “southern/western traditional red states are firmly in play” with blah blah blah. They are already counted in the d list. Get facts straight before posting please.
Obama trails by 9 in LA and nearly 20 in Virginia, which has voted republican the last 14 presidential elections. Maybe he can pull it off but it’s a tall order. It is certainly not “margin of error..
Missouri voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996 and so again is not a red stae, though it is one of the ten swing states.
NM is 5 electoral college votes.
I guess we’ll see about old conventional wisdom that is no longer applicable. Again, my point, win those three states, win the white house. Lose them, well, it doesn’t matter if you have “a vision for this country that resonates with Americans along all points of the left/right spectrum….” when your sitting at home wonmdering how you lost an election you couldn’t lose.
It makes me so happy to know that this election will be driving a big old stake through the heart of the decrepit vampire that is your worldview.
Anon2,
Will you vote for the Dem in November? Why, or why not?
Just trying to get a grasp on where you’re coming from.
Pandora, I will vote dem in November. I was, and am, a Hillary Clinton supporter and believe she would win an election against McCain (see electoral college map I posted above which shows her easily beating McCain because she would carry the 16 dem states, DC, plus Fl, Oh and Pa giving her around 315) and that Obama will have a tougher road and will probably lose based on a number of factors (see map which shows him losing a tight election because he will lose at least two if not all three of the key states and therefore cannot get to 270).
I find the shrill from Obama supporters against the Clinton’s (see this website) and what they’ve done for the country outrageous and in the end destructive. Bill Clinton was a good president, even with his faults. Hillary Clinton is not some evil person. She has a valid argument for being President and a core constitency that gets mocked by Obamanites as if they are the end all, know all. And how many elections have the libs won in U.S. history? Answer: None. Now if that is somehow a decrepit vampire worldview, I guess I spend too much time dealing in facts.
Come on, anon2, the muds been flying on both sides. Let’s not pretend Hillary and Co.’s hands are clean. Look past the mud-throwing surrogates. Look at the candidates.
Up until Texas and Ohio I was pretty laid back. Then all of a sudden I was a “delusional, kool-aid drinking Obamanite (your word).” Talk about shrill!
In fact, I have never called your candidate or her supporters a name. And BOTH sides are guilty of mocking. Just trying to be fair!
Also, it was pretty frustrating to every have primary Obama won discounted, every caucus (except Nev) declared unconstitutional, and every established rule contested.
Obama came from behind and won. He deserves credit.
Here’s a question: How come Hillary, the inevitable nominee, started out with so few pledged Super Delegates? Kinda makes you wonder why they held back? Hmmm?
Oh, and I applaud you, anon2, for voting Dem in Nov. I always said I was voting Dem, no matter what. Now… if more people were like us the Dems would win in a landslide.
Let’s see what we can do to make that happen! 🙂
Where do you get 20% in VA?
It’s within the margin of error….talk about facts and stuff?!?!?
VA-Pres:
May 12 Rasmussen McCain (R) 47%, Obama (D) 44%
NC-Pres:
May 12 PPP (D)McCain (R) 49%, Obama (D) 42%
May 12 PPP (D)McCain (R) 46%, Clinton (D) 38%
May 12 Rasmussen McCain (R) 48%, Obama (D) 45%
FL-Pres:
May 1 Quinnipiac McCain (R) 44%, Obama (D) 43%
OH-Pres:
May 1 Quinnipiac McCain (R) 43%, Obama (D) 42%
So get YOUR ‘facts’ in order before being so pompously dismissive…
http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/03/06/electoral-math-as-of-030608-obama-280-mccain-258/
And in most places Obama’s campaigned – his approvals shot up, while the opponents dropped like a rock….so I’m not too worried about OH, PA, and FL, especially after 4 months or so of McCain v Obama, head-to-head.
It’sa gonna be a blowout….
And you never defined ELITISM for me….What does that word mean to you? Rich? Born into affluence? Yeah, that’s sooooo Obama!
Some More:
PA-Pres:
May 1 Quinnipiac Obama (D) 47%, McCain (R) 38%
OR:
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Rasmussen Reports 3/27/08 48.0 42.0
Pollster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Rasmussen Reports 3/27/08 40.0 46.0
Well I guess Oregon doesn’t count!
NV:
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 46.0 41.0
Pollster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 41.0 49.0
Oh well, Nevada. Go back to Meh-He-Co!
WI:
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Wisconsin Public Radio / St. Norbert College 4/5/08 46.0 42.0
llster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Wisconsin Public Radio / St. Norbert College 4/5/08 42.0 46.0
F-YOU WI!!! Your cheese blows curds!
CO:
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 50.0 41.0
Rasmussen Reports 4/18/08 46.0 43.0
Pollster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 42.0 48.0
Rasmussen Reports 4/18/08 36.0 50.0
Denver’s not a REAL city, BTW!
NH:
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 46.0 44.0
Rasmussen Reports 2/11/08 49.0 36.0
Pollster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 41.0 49.0
Rasmussen Reports 2/11/08 43.0 41.0
Small States suck DV’s balls and they don’t matter!!
TX, you may ask?
Pollster Date Barack Obama John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 46.0 47.0
Holy fuck!
Pollster Date Hillary Clinton John McCain
Survey USA 3/6/08 42.0 49.0
Ahem….
Point being, elections are never won in the spring, but they can be lost!
HRC’s negatives never would have allowed her to compete, let alone win, in some of these traditional red states, whereas Obama has been proven to do well in GOP strongholds.
Poor, uneducated whites (HRC’s Base) will come to the dark-side, even if Obama’s an Elitist, Uppity Neeegrow.
VC, you are a god!
She has a valid argument for being President and a core constitency that gets mocked by Obamanites as if they are the end all, know all.
1. All who ran have a valid argument — only two now earned the delegates to compete in the general.
2. And that mocking thing? Welcome to Deaniac Central, circa Feb 2004.
He may need her to protect his flank
My take on this thread it that when speaking of Hillary, there is no “love”. It is as if she were a toothpaste on a Wal*mart shelf. This one is better than that because……..
And in fairness, I’m picking up this vibe from both sides: Hillary’s and Obama’s.
When Obama becomes a topic of conversation, it becomes emotional, either pro or con….Unlike Hillary, he hits nerves….
Bottom line, if the “Presidency” is to mean anything, Americans will need to feel an emotional attachment to either the man or women they put up as their representative of what America should be…..
(I guess if I was to be totally honest (not a chance that would ever happen) I would say that once, I did have an emotional attachment to Hillary, but as things progressed, her value declined, and that of Obama rose.)
You can look at my comments back in late ’07 and see that I was not a HRC basher. It only was when she resorted to the same tactics used against her spouse, fellow liberals, or anyone who wasn’t a fall-in-line republican, did I turn on Hillary. That, and playing the sexism card.
She became ‘them’ to compensate for her shitty, campaign and tried every played-out political ploy used by conservatives over the past 35 years.
ps – Thanks, P! 😉
Little busy yesterday and couldn’t post. VC, you are right, I had wrong numbers for VA. However, they have voted R 14 straight presidential elections and let’s not forget your errors with WA, OR, and MO. Nevertheless, today’s electoral college map http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May14.html has McCain easily beating BHO 290 to 237 with 11 states in play. I would add that figure actually gives BHO PA, where he has taken a slight polling lead (of bigger concern might be the numbers coming out of California showing an erosion of support for BHO and Florida showing the state going red.) ironically, this website (known for combining multiple polls and accurately predicting outcomes.) shows just how difficult this is going to be for BHO. Let me add, the same polling site has Clinton over McCain 280 to 241 because, well, like I keep saying, she takes Ohio (solid blue), PA (solid blue and Fla (med blue) Ironically, with Clinton there are more states in play, 17 to be exact. I find that surprising and against what most pundits say. And in fact, the same states in play for BHO are in play for HRC.
Do you want to see the poll numbers from six months ago so you can judge how they stack up to today’s? Do you really think six months of campaigning isn’t going to change any of those numbers? Do you really think McCain is a strong enough campaigner with popular enough positions to move those numbers in his direction?
The whole anti-Obama argument boils down to “white people won’t vote for him.” If that is in fact the case, oh well. I hate to sound like Ralph Nader, because I’m sure Hillary would be a lot more to my liking than McCain, but in a McCain-Clinton race, both sides are already bought and paid for by corporate interests. Please don’t come back with Obama’s corporate donations; of course he has them, but we don’t know if he’ll cater to them — whereas with the Clintons we have a track record, and they surely will. I, like other Obama supporters, prefer the devil we don’t know.
The whole anti-Obama argument boils down to “white people won’t vote for him.”
Not the whole argument, but surely part of it.
There is also the experience factor of a first term Senator which will play in certain states.
There is also a political factor. BHO is to the left of any democratic candidate in a long time and that will play.
And this: Clinton’s victory in West Virginia was decisive. She won men and women. She carried a majority of voters in every age group. She captured liberals, moderates, and conservatives. She took a majority in every income bracket.
Older voters and white women — part of Clinton’s core constituency — also rallied strongly to her beleaguered campaign. Voters age 65 and older supported her by a 38-point margin. White women backed her by 51 points.
Yeah, campaigning might make a difference, but to turn a blind eye to the real problems of a BHO presidential race again McShame (I really liked that one) seems incredibly politically naive.
Do you really think McCain is a strong enough campaigner with popular enough positions to move those numbers in his direction?
He already has.
That grown-ups like annon2 want to save the Democratic party from itself like they did when they picked John Kerry.
Thanks but no thanks.
Please stop playing up West Virginia. Didn’t Bush carry that state with 57%?
No, actually, he hasn’t. HIllary has. By the way, didn’t that “naive” card turn out to be a loser several months ago? Wasn’t that the first chunk of ceramic from the kitchen sink?
Senator Obama,
Put Hillary on the ticket and your online fund raising machine will dry up.
A better idea. Why don’t we split America in two. One has all the white poor uneducated people and Hillary can rule them. She’ll make sure they stay poor and uneducated and white, just to keep their votes. Obama can have the rest of America.