Oh, look (insert sarcastic voice) he agrees with Obama now….again
Damn, you know, it must be Obama’s lack of judgement and experience that has cause McCain to agree with his inflate your tires and get your car serviced statement. My, my, my…
After telling a caller to a teleconference Tuesday night that, yes, keeping tires well inflated is a good thing, Senator John McCain tonight seemed to signal that the matter was being put to rest.
Seriously, you people and you know who you are, are such sheep. Now what are you going to do? Oh I know, wait a couple of days to feign over some other issue McCain will eventually flip flop on. Hard to rally around someone you didn’t want to be your candidate. Yet, the more you do, the more we see you for what you are.
Well who the fuck is going to disagree that keeping your car in good running condition and your tires inflated will help your gas mileage?
Obama was the one saying that if we all did this we wouldn’t have to drill, which is stupid & ignorant.
gee all of the republican congress mocked it for a week and were poking fun at Obama including McCain.
sooo lookie, lookie, Mr. Experience agreed with Obama a week later.
THOUST IS GIVEN THE SEAL OF NO EXPERIENCE FOR NOT DEFENDING A GOOD IDEA UNTIL YOUR CANDIDATE AGREED. AKA, BEING A SHEEP
Again you miss the point. They were mocking Obama for being stupid and saying that if we all kept our tires inflated we wouldn’t have to drill……. but hey, you’ll ignore the fact that Obama mentioned it in the context of drilling, which is why he was mocked.
Oh, and the fact that someone as fervently anti-gun as yourself is calling me a “sheep” is oh so Ironic.
Ok, Mr. KFC in Iraq baaawwwwwhahahahahahaaaaa
And their mocking him was proven with facts to be wrong. So again, you look just as “ignorant” as they do
Obama got Mike right when he said some people were proud of their ignorance
I happen to be glad glad that we, as a coutry are getting away from prideful ignorance as a political strategy. It has served the GOP too well for too long.
MIKIE did mommy make you breakfest this morning ???
between purple heart band aids to mock John Kerry’s service to tire pressure gagues … The GOP has got nothing but prideful stupidity.
If the traditional media fails to play along with their childish games, they’ve got nothing.
“They were mocking Obama for being stupid and saying that if we all kept our tires inflated we wouldn’t have to drill”
And we’re mocking you for not understanding his point. If you bothered to read it, you would realize that what he SAID (as opposed to what the shouting heads claim) is that, according to the Bush Dept. of Energy, drilling will, once the oil comes online, boost output by 1% worldwide — while keeping tires inflated saves you 3-4% on gas.
In other words, if you’re worried about high gas prices, inflating your tires IS a better course of action. Drilling is a poor one. What part don’t you understand, Mike?
Everyone and their mother knows to inflate tires. That is NOT a substantive part of an “energy policy” especially one that’s opposed to drilling.
And the amount conserved isn’t even a fraction of the oil supplied from offshore drilling. Also, as usual Obama fails to understand other costs involved in his inadequate analysis of the situation.
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/08/obama-doesnt-understand-economics.html
Oh and all, good job with your percentages. You’re comparing a 1% WORLDWIDE oil supply number with 3-4% bump in gas mileage.
Oh, and Obama, the guy who rides around in a huge bulletproof SUV has no room to be talking about what Americans need to do to conserve oil.
You’re right, Mike. A 1% Worldwide oil supply isn’t comparable. It doesn’t get us a seat at the table because it’s not big enough to put us in the game.
Mike, you go into an
warelection with thearmytransportation you have.– D. Rumsfeld
I just heard an energy consultant (very non-partisan) on the radio saying that Obama was right.
If everyone inflated their tires properly, it would be an immediate savings of 800k barrels. Whereas, drilling off-shore would, in 7 to 10 years, yield 1.5 million or so (approx), but only half of that crude will result in gasoline.
Keep on keeping on!
“Mike, you go into an war election with the army transportation you have.
– D. Rumsfeld”
Why won’t Obama lead by example? Oh yeah, it’s the typical “Do as I say not as I do” BS of liberal politicians (and every socialist/communist in history)
Wow dude, take a chill pill for the hyperbole.
If a doctor gives you advice which will make you healthier, but that doctor doesn’t heed his own advice (say, stop drinking, eating red meat…), that doesn’t make him a hypocrite and it doesn’t invalidate the effectiveness of the advice.
You should really learn the definition of the word before using it.
Would you say the same thing if Bush told other nations not to launch preemptive strikes and then went an attacked Iran?
Nope. I guarantee you’d call him a hypocrite. Good try though.
You wan’t to lead this country? Lead by example not bullshit rhetoric.
No, I agree with the bullshit rhetoric point – but you have to have the wherewithal and opportunity to implement first….
BTW – what try? I didn’t ‘try’ anything.
Your canned responses are getting old, especially when your references make absolutely no sense.
How does “why won’t he lead by example?” not make sense?
You “tried” an assinine doctor example, which I called you on because, to put it bluntly, it’s just flat out stupid. By the way, your doctor, unlike the government, doesn’t compel you to do anything, you’re free to ignore his advice.
BTW – Bush telling other countries not to attack Iran, and then he goes off and attacks, doesn’t make him a hypocrite. Like Obama riding in SUVs, there are many more factors, by way of influence, opportunity and reason, which come into play. It’s not the act itself, but the dynamics that drive action which should be examined.
I’m sorry that reality is too nuanced for ya…
I think you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
My doctor analogy fits; you just don’t want to recognize.
But entertain me, why is my analogy “asinine(sp)”?
Please, educate me.
The only reason you gave me is that you think it’s stupid, which is a response I’d expect from an 8-yr old, but not from someone as knowledgeable as you, Mike….
“Like Obama riding in SUVs, there are many more factors, by way of influence, opportunity and reason, which come into play. ”
Oh really? “reason” comes into play in his decision to ride in an 8mpg SUV while telling the rest of America we need to ditch our SUVs?
How about when he and his family enjoy 24/7 armed security, but he actively votes and speaks out against CCW, and denies his constituents in Chicago & Illinois protection via carried firearms.
Is that kind of blatant hypocrisy too nuanced for you Von?
A doctor will not FORCE you to adopt his recommendations. They are just that, recommendations that you are free to ignore. He can’t compel you to do things “for your own good” under penalty of law. Religious conservatives and liberal politicians however, can and do. That’s the fundamental difference that invalidates your doctor example.
With politicians, government and laws individuals are denied freedom of choice, even simple fundamental choices like carrying firearms for self-defense.
I refuse your premise; it’s not hypocrisy.
So Obama’s going to COMPEL you to inflate your tires correctly under the penalty of law?
Is this what you’re really saying?
HA! –
Most likely not, but all laws, by nature have the implicit threat of force behind them by which to compel adherence to them.
You were wrong about the amount of real energy savings between off-shore drilling and tire inflation, and you’re wrong now….I sense a trend….
How is either situation discussed in #23 not hypocrisy? You may want to look up the definition.
gotta go – but like McArthur – I shall return!
“You were wrong about the amount of real energy savings between off-shore drilling and tire inflation, and you’re wrong now….I sense a trend….”
Actually I wasn’t. And I’m certainly not now. It’s not my fault you don’t understand the nature of laws and governmment.
But I’ll leave you with this, and ask yourself beforehand: What is Obama trying to conceal?
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=hypocrite
Conceal? We’re talking about Obama’s blatant hypocrisy here buddy.
I refer you back to comment #29. Since you’ve referenced the definition of hypocrisy I suggest you try to answer it.
RE 23
Seriously, WTF? A presidential candidate is suppose to ride around in a Prius. I wonder if the Secret Service has an armor-plated Prius.
“And the amount conserved isn’t even a fraction of the oil supplied from offshore drilling.”
Wrong, Mike. Americans in 2007 consumed 3,390,978,000 barrels — not gallons, barrels — of gasoline. Three percent of that is about 110,00,000 (110 Million) barrels of gasoline per year that could be saved if everyone paid attention to tire pressure.
It’s hard to say what additional offshore production would be, since we’re not even sure how much is down there, but it takes two barrels of oil to make a barrel of gasoline. So we’d need to pump 220 Million barrels/year to equal the amount saved by correct tire pressure alone. That’s certainly doable — we could probably pump twice that much per year — but it’s certainly incorrect to say it “isn’t even a fraction” of what we could pump.
Not a prius, but why a huge gas guzzler SUV if you’re all about energy, conservation, being green, and “change?” Why not a hybrid sedan? or at least something that’s not a 6L. V8.
Care to address the other blatant example of hypocrisy I discussed in #23?
“MIKIE did mommy make you breakfest this morning ???”
Nice TT, you try to mock my age and you can’t even spell correctly.
“And the amount conserved isn’t even a fraction of the oil supplied from offshore drilling.”
You make an incorrect assumption, that every single American driver will keep the tire pressure on each of their vehicles at the optimal level at all times. Not going to happen, not even if Obama & the Dems passed a law mandating it.
2nd, you ignore the opportunity cost of Americans regularly checking their tire pressure each week, which far outweighs even the most optimistic conservation figures of correct tire pressure.
http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/08/obama-doesnt-understand-economics.html
Jonathan Alter said it best the other night:
This is about stigmatizing Barack Obama, “Jimmy Carterizing” him. Remember when Jimmy Carter wore the cardigan sweater and the Republicans back in the ‘70s said, “Oh, that‘s how he wants to address the energy crisis, have everybody wear a sweater.” They were trivializing what was actually a comprehensive plan in the Carter administration. They would love nothing more than to turn Obama into a Jimmy Carter.
The Republicans are very, very good at this, at taking trivial issues and using them to cut. The Democrats don‘t do it nearly as well. There‘s kind of a smear gap between the parties where, you know, you see McCain and his surrogates—Romney was doing it this morning—they‘re all on message on this tire pressure deal and misrepresenting this as being the centerpiece of Obama‘s energy plan.
“They would love nothing more than to turn Obama into a Jimmy Carter.”
They don’t have to turn him into Jimmy Carter, he’s done that quite well on his own. His rhetoric is socialist, and what little record he has is as far left on the political spectrum as you can get. Only now is he trying to shed that image and portray himself as “moderate”
“Windfall profit Taxes?” – Obama is Jimmy Carter. Energy Policy? He’s Jimmy Carter . Foreign Policy? He’s Jimmy Carter…..
Oh, and as far as Republican’s trivializing Carter’s energy plan…. I’d say they had it right, considering how his “comprehensive plan” worked out.
Ha, Mike failed Vocab in 8th grade!
FAIL!
I’m done with you; you are dishonest.
Again. personal attacks, name calling, baseless accusations of “dishonesty” all because you can’t (or won’t) refute my arguments. Par for the course among most of you.
Prove yourself, Back up what you say with some substance. If you won’t then do what you just said you will. Quit and “be done with me.”
You are a broken record, that constantly accuses others of what you do.
I’m with VC. I’m done with you as well.
Hey, I’m not the one doing little more than saying “You’re wrong” and then getting pissy when asked to qualify said statement.
Do you guys even realize how Juvenile & childish you are? saying “I’m done with you!” because, I’m mean & dishonest, and dare to question you ask ask for proof.
As Dean Werner once said, P:
“Fat, lazy and stupid is no way to go through life, Son”
Don’t know about the first one, but the other two? Well, we all can make our own assessment….
Is he talking to a mirror?
And Von proves my point. Nothing substantive so he reverts back to his standard name-calling.
I thought it was fat, drunk, and stupid….
Yeah, I think it was. Good movie!
mike,
you really are in over your head son.
Even if I concede every point, correct tire pressure et. al. still saves one/tenth of what drilling would provide. That’s not a fraction?
You might be right, Meat.
…just off the top of the head.
There’s more projection going on here than in a Multiplex.
I’ve made substantive arguments and the #$*%&#er can’t deal, so he plays dumb.
The dude thinks Obama’s hypocritical because he advocates energy independence but goes around campaigning in SUVs protected by the SS.
I informed said dude that it takes a little more than that to make someone a hypocrite; I even provided a link showing the actual definition of the word, Hypocrite.
S: (n) hypocrite, dissembler, dissimulator, phony, phoney, pretender (a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives)
I don’t name-call; I label based on the information at hand.
VC, what you said was fine. Said person was becoming tiresome and did nothing to further the debate. I agreed with you and stopped responding.
vc,
he isn’t playing dumb, sadly.
“There’s more projection going on here than in a Multiplex.”
Now that’s Ironic, accusing me of projection.
Oh, and Von, you conveniently ignored the 2nd example.
“You are a broken record, that constantly accuses others of what you do.”
How so Pandora? I’ve responded rationally to every question / argument / ad hominem thrown at me. I’ve provided citations to back up my claims, I’ve even further explained myself when someone came along and offered nothing more substantive than “You’re wrong.” (that phrase by the way isn’t a very good debate tactic)
I’ll even put the facts right out in front of you to bolster my claim and I’m met with unfounded accusations of “playing fast & loose with the facts” The citation, and my discussion of said citation are right there for you to look at. You continue to ignore what’s been put in front of you and then claim that I’m playing dumb. That is classic projection. Lord knows we saw plenty of that from you folks in the gun threads. You practically put on a damn clinic.
And since Von’s using his trusty dictionary, he might want to look up “dishonest,” since I’ve been nothing of the sort.
I responded to Al in post #38 and backed up my discussion with comments from Professor Lott. Rather than address any of that his response was as follows.
“Ha, Mike failed Vocab in 8th grade!
FAIL!
I’m done with you; you are dishonest.”
So who exactly is making a habit of obfuscating issues, avoiding debate, and throwing out “labels” without qualification? Such mature responses from you folks. Quit projecting.
70% of Americans already keep their tires inflated to the proper levels. There’s no way that getting 30% of the people to get their tires inflated properly will equal the output one can get from offshore drilling. As I pointed out in the other thread on the topic, the figures being used are outdated, based on $60 per barrel oil versus $120 bbl.
Obama noticed that tire pressure increases efficiency. He was stupid to say that inflating your tires would “save all the oil that they’re talking about getting off drilling.”
“save all the oil that they’re talking about getting off drilling.”
There are also far too many variables involved to make such a definitive statement.
“I’ve made substantive arguments and the #$*%&#er can’t deal, so he plays dumb.”
Really Al? I see you responding with childish BS and avoiding actually addressing my points.
dropped in this morning to see if anything interesting was being debated. And what do I find PRE SCHOOL
I’ve continually asked for substantive, decent debate and continue to get preschool responses.
And TT- that’s a ironic response coming from one of the folks forgoing interesting debate for “preschool responses”
In comment #7 you said.
“MIKIE did mommy make you breakfest this morning ???”
So really you have no one to blame but yourself (and your ilk over here) for childish preschool talk. Pot, meet kettle.
b/c you are now a troll mike.
Under who’s definition Mr. “Seal of Experience”….
If you’re going to open up comments for debate don’t bitch & moan when someone actually engages you. You don’t like good old reasoned debate then label me a “troll” That’s simply par for the course given your usual immature behavior DTB.
You are living proof that age doesn’t equal maturity, or tact for that matter.
spoon = gun mike. nuff said my friend.
The fact that you still cling to that as proof that I’m somehow “wrong” is sad DTB.
Spoon = an object, a tool. It can be used to provide nourishment, for fun (food fights?) but it can also contribute to obesity in certain hands.
Gun = an object, a tool. Can be used to shoot paper targets for fun, for pest control, for hunting, or for self-defense. In other hands it can be used to facilitate rape, robbery, burglary, and murder.
Does the gun cause rape, robbery, burglary, murder? Not anymore than the spoon causes obesity. Both gun & spoon are mere inanimate objects, incapable of ACTION without direct, conscious, purposeful manipulation by a human being. As such, the INTENT of the human being is all that matters.
I don’t see why that’s such a difficult concept for you DTB? My 11 year old nephew understands that concept.
Hey, Mike, I’m not the one you’re arguing with. I made my point with numbers, not names.
“If you’re going to open up comments for debate don’t bitch & moan when someone actually engages you. ”
By confusing them with simple facts and logic, you’ve effectively put their dicks in the dirt on every point, so they are now either cowering away from the issues, or going ad hominem on you. Nothing new here. They’re not interested in engaging in any substantive debate, only parroting each other and the standard liberal talking points.
On another note, it’s amusing to see Mascitti joining in and assuming the role of pivot man in their socialist circle jerk.
“Hey, Mike, I’m not the one you’re arguing with. I made my point with numbers, not names.”
Sorry. I confused your response with Von Cracker’s. I did offer a rebuttal to your discussion on the impact of tire pressure though. Have you read the link to Professor Lott?
“By confusing them with simple facts and logic, you’ve effectively put their dicks in the dirt on every point, so they are now either cowering away from the issues, or going ad hominem on you.”
They actually do both. Cower from the issues AND go ad hominem. It’s sad to watch, but it’s like a freakish car accident, you just can’t turn away.
Hell, they still haven’t addressed how I’m “playing loose & fast with the facts” regarding violent crime & race, despite the fact that I explained it to them several times and linked to the FBI UCR stats in question.
“b/c you are now a troll mike.”
I’ll give you a hint about trolls DTB. They don’t engage in reasoned debate, they offer one liners, personal attacks, and childish banter. Such actions are standard for trolls.
Comments like this are what you see from trolls DTB.
“MIKIE did mommy make you breakfest this morning ???” Things like that as well as attacking someones age or physical disability.
here’s a spoon mike, keep digging the hole you are in with it
The fact that you still cling to that as proof that I’m somehow “wrong” is sad DTB.
I use it a source to illustrate your jaded logic Mike and yes, that you are wrong.
this is my site and I allow Pandora, Cass, DD and Jason to post on it, ergo I am not a troll. Annoying maybe but not a troll
that’s right! MINE BABY! wooohooooo, MINE, MINE, MINE
I’m feeling a post coming on…
and this is the last comment I direct at you for a while if ever.
Does the gun cause rape, robbery, burglary, murder?
try holding a spoon to the intended victim and tell me the reaction you get.
toodles mike, it’s been fun.
it could be gas?
Socialist, communist, latte-drinking faggots, Breck-girls, ball-busting women, pussies, appeasers, weak-kneed terrorist sympathizers….
Any more?
If this truly is a circle jerk, then you guys are certainly in the middle of it all…..and it’s probably just where you want to be.
Keep on keeping on, fellas!
“Does the gun cause rape, robbery, burglary, murder?
try holding a spoon to the intended victim and tell me the reaction you get. ”
Does the gun jump out of it’s safe, or out of a holster and hold up intended victims purely by it’s own volition? Does it pull it’s own trigger? Does the spoon magically force feed you to the point of obesity?
Both are objects, tools requiring intent and conscious manipulation by a human being. Objects don’t hold magical powers. I can’t help but question the cognitive ablities of people who can’t get that through their heads.
Hell, does ANY object act on it’s own? Do cars drive without a person behind the wheel? Does a bat hit a ball without being swung?
“try holding a spoon to the intended victim and tell me the reaction you get”
Try eating with a gun.
DTB – I find it sad, but I still have to applaud you for your incredible resolve in remaining willfully ignorant.
“I use it a source to illustrate your jaded logic Mike and yes, that you are wrong.”
Yet you cannot provide a logical, substantive comment detailing WHY/HOW the spoon = gun analogy is invalid. You just keep repeating “you’re wrong” over and over without explaining the reasoning behind that assertion.
“I’m feeling a post coming on…”
Go for it Pandora! What’s the subject?
You! 🙂
Pandora – What’s your take on DTB’s gun / spoon idiocy?
“I use it a source to illustrate your jaded logic Mike and yes, that you are wrong.”
And you keep doing it DTB – claiming I’m “wrong” without qualifying that statement with anything. If you had logic, reason, or facts you’d use them…… but you don’t.
How about instead of “wrong” we use the term annoying?
If asking you folks to qualify your statements and arguments is “annoying” then I’m more than happy to annoy you.
The fact that he (and you Pandora) refuse to backup what you say says a lot about the invalidity of your statements. If you had facts, reason, logic, and substance you’d use it, wouldn’t you?
“How about instead of “wrong” we use the term annoying?”
Sounds like you’re admitting that your argument (if you could honestly call it that), as well as your ideology, is flawed.
Well when you’re used to spewing things in an echo chamber and someone comes along and asks that you back up what you say….. They consider that “annoying.” Besides, having your ideology challenged by fact & logic can’t be pleasant. That’s where the hostility and childish ad hominems come from. They simply don’t know how to debate without stooping to that level.
DV: “and this is the last comment I direct at you for a while if ever. ”
What a petulant little turd you are!
By the way Pandora you were the one who accused me of “playing loose & fast with the facts” but absolutely refused to explain yourself or so much as attempt to engage in debate or discuss said facts.
I’ve generally directed this at DTB, but the same holds true for you Pandora. If you can’t / won’t discuss facts or explain the reasoning behind your accusations you’ve really got no intellectual ground whatsoever to stand on.
“Sounds like you’re admitting that your argument (if you could honestly call it that), as well as your ideology, is flawed.”
They don’t really have an argument, since they only shy away from debate, offer ad hominems, or say “you’re wrong.”
I’ve spoon fed DTB the spoon/gun analogy several times now and he’s yet to actually offer any counterargument to it. He seems to think his several variations of “you’re wrong” are counterarguments. I wonder if I’m dealing with an infant sometimes.
Actually, I don’t wonder anymore. I know what I’m dealing with, at least with DTB and Pandora, and it’s just sad. TT’s ad hominems are pretty sad as well.
If anyone ever wants to see the debate tactics of the anti-gun left they only have to look at DTB, TT, Pandora, and Von’s post in this thread (and others) You’ll see 4 folks who haven’t engaged in anything even resembling reasoned, logical debate.
Here’s an example of true hypocrisy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h_ZbW2REcI&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/13/mccain-21-century/