Question of the Afternoon (QOA)
What world do people live in when they refuse to believe that a guy spending over $250,000.00 a year on a single credit card, not knowing how many homes he has and not knowing that picking lettuce isn’t a $50/hour job doesn’t make them elitist?
2nd QOA. Can someone, anyone, please name me a Republican Elitist?
Why do liberals on this site insist in engaging in class warfare?
wouldn’t comment #1 be a perfect example of an ad hominem?
now to answer your question…
no dipshit.
Why?
because the GOP is the one that calls Obama Elitist. You see, Obama didn’t say that McCain was the rich little queen out of touch. The gop is the one that says the dems are the Liberal elites that are out of touch because they make so much money and own houses, they windsurf, they don’t hunt and go to fancy liberal arts colleges.
Answer the fucking question, Mike! Conservatives love screaming “elitist,” “limo liberal!” at any chance they can get. Just answer the question Delaware’s Most Underappreciated Writer has posed.
DV is right. It’s an ad hominem that totally skips over the original point being made.
Allow me to refer to a previous comment:
#
Von Cracker // Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Ok All, I’ll be the final arbiter of who’s an elitist and who’s not.
First of all, an elitist is someone who thinks they alone absolutely know better than you.
Second, an elitist does not have to be wealthy or from the ‘aristocracy’.
Third, along with thinking they know better than you, this person has to provide proof of no concern in bringing the common citizen along with them with their stated policies, aka ‘left behind’, or to benefit the few in the hope of benefiting all, such as ‘trickle down economics’.
With that said, neither candidate is a true ‘elitist’. On a scale of one to ten, ten being an absolute elitist (e.g. – William Buckley), McCain’s about a 5 and Obama’s a 3.
McCain’s recent conversion to most, if not all, of Bu$hCo’s policies has driven-up his Elitist Factor. Does he truly believe in what he’s now advocating? Only he knows, but he’s definitely taking a page out of Rove’s playbook by attempting to project his perceived weaknesses onto his opponent. His lack of knowing how many properties the McCain entity owns or his statement that our current economic fundamentals are strong certainly gives the impression that he’s out-of-touch with popular reality, but his prior populist stances keep him from being an absolute ‘elitist’.
To say that Obama thinks he knows better, and therefore he’s an ‘elitist’, is just plain silly. Of course all politicians think they know better, why would they run for office in the first place if they didn’t believe that they have a better way, even if it’s misplaced? What you need to ask yourself is if Obama’s agenda is focused on a select few or will it benefit a majority of Americans. Same goes for McCain. But, most of the time, you cannot call someone with a populist message an ‘elitist’.
Bush? Absolutely a 10 – look at his policies and determine for yourself if he cares at all about how his enacted policies affect the common man. He certainly thought he knew better than us about the results of an Iraq invasion (so much so, he had to lie about the true reasons), NCBL, etc. The words he uses: “I’m the Decider”; “You have to Understand….”, etc. All of these are his way of telling you that he knows best and no one will tell him different. He follows Reagan’s idea of letting the rich and powerful filter what the common folk may have, usually crumbs, since those who benefit directly from a trickle-down model tend to keep most of it for themselves, spend and save money abroad, or purchase investments that may take years for us regulars to see any, if at all, benefit.
As the saying goes: The Devil’s* greatest trick was convincing everyone he doesn’t exist; and GWB greatest trick was convincing lower and middle class voters that he’s just like them.
So STFU with this entire elitist BS…you might as well have an argument about who kicks ass more, Romulans or Klingons. It may make interesting conversation, but it’s not based in reality.
* the devil as a singularity really does not exist, for the devil is all of us.
#
130 Von Cracker // Aug 22, 2008 at 4:38 pm
And let me just say that the ‘Elite’ do not want new company….membership is closed. Therefore, why would they want to enact policies which might change the status quo?
We should send mike w off to ask Teresa Heinz Kerry that question.
I’ll answer the question. Because elitism has little to do with money. Elitism is an attitude. Let’s face it, they’re both elites, but they’re not both elitists.
They live in the same world where people say, “No I’m not! You are!”
Dave,
That is one of the biggest crocks of shit you’ve ever typed on this or any other blog.
I’d argue that most politicians (on both sides of the aisle) are “out of touch.”
If we are using money as a barometer for “elitism” then yes, McCain is an elitist, but you can’t honestly sit here and act like Obama is “middle class” either.
That said, is the attitude being espoused here not one of class warfare? What difference does it make how much McCain is worth and how much he puts on his credit card? Yes, McCain & his wife are worth a shitload and spend a shitload, but beyond that what has he done or said that makes him come off as “elitist?”
It can’t be just money.
Say a person never made over 30k a year hits the powerball for 150 million. Does a purchase of a $1 winning ticket automatically make someone an elitist? How, through osmosis?
The stereotypical elitist is the university professor. Few of them are in the top 1%. What about that is difficult to understand?
vc?
anything going on tonight?
don’t you guys know, only elitists exist in the liberal arena.
Republican billionaires are down to earth wanna have a beer with guys
Oh SYFPH, FSP!
That’s bogus argument #1 conservatives use to fuel anti-intellectualism with the sole purpose of creating a strawman. Effective in getting the less knowledgeable into voting against their personal interests too.
Is it not the purpose of academics to learn MORE about subjects that most people have no idea about?
I’m not saying there aren’t any in academia, but whiny conservatives try to make it sound like they all are – ’cause bein’ smart iz stoopid!
DV –
Not Brian and I are heading down shortly to Marvin’s for some keggin & Q’in!
Call, we can give directions.
Fred Garvin!
HAHAAA what do you expect, that he’d only put $100 per year on his creddy?
Funny how academics have a liberal bias! Maybe it’s a result of knowing what the fuck they’re talking about! Ever thought about that?
Apparently you didn’t have the same professors that I had.
Did they believe that you were not able or capable of ‘handling’ what they knew? Did they want you to fail or just didn’t care?
If not, then they are not elitist.
Elitism is attitude, not just action, or wealth, or the ability to talk with a Queen’s English accent….
VC just said it. Anti-intellectualism. I’ve been reaching for that, but it just hasn’t come out. Let’s face it, conservatives rely on the stupidity of the masses. They often take shots at individuals who present themselves in an intellectual fashion by shooting them down as “elitists.” Let’s face it, we have a fool who ran for president in 2000 who played up the whole “I wanna have a beer with him” factor.
Elites and elitism come in many forms. I would definitely qualify Barack Obama as an elite and an elitist. And I would certainly count McCain in that, as well.
Let’s face it, conservatives rely on the stupidity of the masses.
..and they’ve been very good at leveraging that stupidity.
If Obama wants you, directly and not through the good will of others, to reach the levels he has, or something comparable, then he cannot be considered an elitist.
Reading this thread is making me happy. If this is all FSP has at this point, the GOP is in sad, sad, sad, shape.
All I’ve got? The question was about elitism. I don’t even use the elitist meme with Obama. There’s so much more.
Jason — Following you comments today, I’m noticing that you’re forcing it, like you don’t have faith in this ticket.
You will deny it of course, but the sweeping statements reek of a latent doubt.
No, forcing it is what you guys are doing with Bill Lee.
Are you getting 5% of all wages and endorsement deals for being Jason’s agent?
Dave,
This is what a guy who is on cloud 9 sounds like.
I’m not surprised you are unfamiliar with the vibe since you hang around with Copeland, Lee and O’Donnell. (The GOP Dream ticket’s combined votes will not match Biden’s Senate total. Do we have a bet?)
dave reminds me of that telemarketing sales guy that tries to get you to buy the shit he is selling
but wouldn’t buy that same shit if he had the chance.
The more you try to prop up the GOP as a good product dave especially now after all that happens, the less credible (as if it’s possible) you are becoming.
I’m also still waiting for an example of a GOP elitist….
tick tock
Back to the question, we evil paleoconservatives call them Rockefeller Republicans. In other words, guys who feel that they have to bring in mountains of pork to get re-elected and get invited to all the smart DC cocktail parties.
Elitists are Democrats educated in the North East and all the Jews.
..and people who say, “yes please” instead of “yeah” or “yup” and “no thank you” instead of “nah” or “nope.”
“The GOP Dream ticket’s combined votes will not match Biden’s Senate total. Do we have a bet?”
Yes. Absolutely. Easiest money I’ll ever make. Name the price.
Note that this is LEE, COPELAND, and O’Crazy.
So when Lee takes a dump to Protack, you are left with Copeland and O’Crazy.
I’ll give you a second to reconsider
Yes. Absolutely. Easiest money I’ll ever make. Name the price.
“All I’ve got? The question was about elitism. I don’t even use the elitist meme with Obama. There’s so much more.”
There’s so much with regards to policy that you can hammer Obama on that whether he’s elitist is really a moot point.
$100.00 to habitat for humanity?
I would venture to say they’re both elitists.
But one has vast experience, has crossed party lines and taken unpopular, risky stands and the other has done none of the above.
$100 to Habitat for Humanity (NCC if you win or Sussex when I win).
Done.
You wanna go ahead and write the check now?
When Protack beats Lee I might give you a second chance to get out of this.
When who does what? Are you serious?
Write the check, man.
Going back to comment 40, I take it back. If John McCain were an elitist, he would have taken the 1968 offer of freedom and not suffered 5 more years of torture.
Noun, verb, & POW.
“In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.
Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, which was stopped by guards. After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda “confession”.
He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he would later write, “I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine.”
His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head. He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.” (link)
February 15 John McCain, R-Ariz., voted against an intelligence bill that stated:
I guess Bush pushed him to his breaking point.
“It was not my intent to eliminate the CIA interrogation program, but rather to ensure that the techniques it employs are humane and do not include such extreme techniques as waterboarding. I said on the Senate floor during the debate over the Military Commissions Act, ‘Let me state this flatly: it was never our purpose to prevent the CIA from detaining and interrogating terrorists. On the contrary, it is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to do so. At the same time, the CIA’s interrogation program has to abide by the rules, including the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act.'”
McCain argued that when the Congress voted to apply the Army “Field Manual to the Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the CIA. The Field Manual, a public document written for military use, is not always directly translatable to use by intelligence officers. In view of this, the legislation allowed the CIA to retain the capacity to employ alternative interrogation techniques. I’d emphasize that the DTA permits the CIA to use different techniques than the military employs, but that it is not intended to permit the CIA to use unduly coercive techniques
indeed, the same act prohibits the use of any cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment.”
“What we need is not to tie the CIA to the Army Field Manual, ” McCain said, “but rather to have a good faith interpretation of the statutes that guide what is permissible in the CIA program.”
Come on, that is W-E-A-K. Let me go get my four-year-old to finish mopping you up.
Okay, he’s asleep. You’ll have to finish taking a whiz on a guy who spent five years being tortured for his country by yourself. Sleep well.
Up thread.
I’ll answer the question. Because elitism has little to do with money. Elitism is an attitude. Let’s face it, they’re both elites, but they’re not both elitists.
Shorter Dave: Elites people that Karl Rove says are elites.
Clever. I guess we are with you are we hate America now.
Rove has eaten Dave’s brain.
ZOMBIES ARE COMING!….
Let me add uppity Negroes to the list of Elites. So all told that is Democrats that went college in the North East, Jews, polite people and Coloreds.
Who let the FAT-SUSSEX-PSYCHO OUT OF HIS CAGE TONIGHT?? HOW COME HE IS NOT WITH THE “LITTLE JUDGE TONIGHT DOWN TO THE STARBOARD GALA!!
burris is so cute when he is being a smarmy putz isn’t he.
awww mccain is a war hero…
“In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.
but if mccain voted agains the same techniques used against him Dave, how is he a victim and some sort of war hero? I mean the guy lived through that for 5 years. It must not have been that bad if he is willing to let it happen to other human beings…
Leadership and judgement.
you are so pathetic when you stay loyal to your party. Keep hocking that fake gold Dave. Maybe if you are lucky nobody will notice you are full of shit.
You know there is very little difference between you and Mike W.
you both like to think that the more you type the smarter you sound.
DV — See comment 50.
And please continue to feel free to share your opinion of me at any time.
The elitist meme was started by the fascist movement within the GOP. Why don’t we just call it what it is?
This slipped my mind for a while. You ready to pay up?
Lee/Copeland/O’Donnell: 416,476
Biden: 257,532
In fact, any 2 of the 3 beats Biden’s total.
You can pay via PayPal or mail the check to:
SCHFH
P. O. Box 759
Georgetown, DE 19947