And the Michigan Independents Weigh In — UPDATE
Jake Tapper has the story:
Ilene Beninson, 52, Berkley independent: “Her speech contained few statements about policy or the party platform. … I am not convinced that Palin’s experience as a mayor or governor in Alaska meet the qualifications to be vice president much less one stroke or heart attack away from being commander in chief.”
Jan Wheelock, 58, Royal Oak independent: “Nothing worked for me. I found her barrage of snide remarks and distortions to be a major turnoff. She is not a class act. The most important point she made is that she will be an effective attack dog.”
There’s more at the link.
UPDATE: TheHuffington Post reports on another focus group from last night — this one of female HRC voters from Nevada.
In the “married” group, when one attendee kicked off the discussion by saying “she’s a good speaker, and a crowd pleaser,” the rest of the room articulated their agreement. “I didn’t expect to be as impressed as I was,” said another respondent. But then another woman added: “Once she started mudslinging, I thought, it’s the same old crap as other politicians. McCain used her to get the women’s vote. And she’s using McCain.”
The unmarried group also voiced similar objections to the harsh, partisan edge of Palin’s remarks. “I’m not impressed with her at all as a person,” one said, citing her “finger pointing” and general sarcasm after the group had generally agreed that she was a talented public speaker.
“I think America is concerned, because of McCain’s age, that we’re gonna have a female president who’s maybe inexperienced. The nation needs to know what her issues are,” said one married respondent, which prompted another to add: “I don’t think she’s got what it takes.” An unmarried participant said she had yet to hear enough “in regards to her personal views, which could be implicated on us if McCain was to die.”
And there’s more at the article link.
Tags: 2008 Presidential
man that’s funny to talk about her snide and lack of class when comparing her comments to Barack “bitter clinger” Obama, and Biden who’s the embodiment of snide.
Palin took some shots at Obama on substantive policy issues and experience, but they were well delivered, tactful, and classy.
Do you know the context of “Bitter/Clinger”, Mike?
What was Obama trying to say, in your opinion?
What was that the folks here said a while back about how the media always seemed to find a way to put an ex-Hillary supporter who was going to vote for McCain instead in front of the television camera? No matter how few of those types of people there may or may not be?
Double standards? What double standards?
Do you want testimonials from thousands at once? Get real…
The PUMAs had 60, yes SIXTY, women show-up for their big ‘convention’….some of the leaders of the movement were found to be former bush voters…basically, GOP operatives…
Palin took some shots at Obama on substantive policy issues and experience, but they were well delivered, tactful, and classy
Tactful and classy? You must have been listening to a different speech.
Von. Yes, I know the context and what he was trying to say. In fact, I wrote about it extensively.
http://anothergunblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-showing-more-of-his-true.html
http://anothergunblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/obama-offers-non-explanation.html
Listen to she words, audio only. She sounded like an 8th grader trying to impress her friends, and to combat self-loathing, by taunting the unpopular kid at school.
Just listen to the voice – grating and juvenile.
Do you want me to believe that two people speak for possibly hundreds of thousands? Get real. Sure, some people will not like her. Some people will. Some people will not care. But talk about making a proverbial mountain out of an ant hill…
It’s fear Linoge. The left is afraid of her, and I can see why.
You beat me to it, Cass. I was just about to post this.
There are more testimonials at the links, but hey, why should you look any less ignorant than you are, Linoge and mike w.
DD — what does interest me is what moderates and independents think about this pick. Since McCain largely has his base the only way he wins is to get out his base and to get some fence-sitting independents and moderates to vote with him. I suspect that we will see Ms Palin hustled off to lots of R-leaning small towns in already Red States to fire up the base while 90% McCain still tries to pretend that he is a moderate.
Geez, if he had to pick the extreme evangelical, pro-life candidate why not Huckabee? At least everyone knew Huckabee and the McCain campaign could have skipped the “getting to know you” phase.
Huckabee does not look good in a skirt.
Plus, Huckabee (giving perhaps the best speech of the evening) is too big of a threat to take over the message.
“extreme evangelical”
I love how just because she is pro-life she is an “extreme evangelical”. You guys are amazing.
Uh oh. I hear she occasionally is seen at church! OMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!!!
I suspect that we will see Ms Palin hustled off to lots of R-leaning small towns in already Red States to fire up the base while 90% McCain still tries to pretend that he is a moderate.
Point well taken Cass.
Why not Huckabee?- Well it’d be a surefire way to alienate pretty much any moderate support McCain has.
And Cass- Obama is actually doing a wonderful job of that as well. Parading around pretending he’s a moderate.
Interesting rant, Mike. I think you make too many assumptions about the motives for his words though…
He wasn’t mocking them; he was trying to empathize and explain why some poorer rural folks vote against their own economic interests (since that was the question he was answering). I’ll fault him on poor word choice and being a little bit of a sociology wonk (which he has credibility in that field), but I do not agree with your accusations that he’s an out-of-touch elitist. That’s just a smear without credence.
The broader point being: When left behind economically, people rally around what they have left. What’s left is held even dearer than before. For some it’s church and a belief that the next life will be better than the current one, and guns for individuality and protection from the powers that be….
It’s a very similar tale to previous ones from the streets of Belfast, Cairo, and Jerusalem.
That’s the thing though, they clinged to guns & religion before 1983 and it had nothing to do with “economically induced bitterness.” It had to do with those things being serious, widely held values for many Americans.
Obama is so far removed from those values (and has such outright contempt for them) that he failed to realize that guns & religion are part of their cultural values (hell, they’re American values) What they are NOT is products of economically induced bitterness. And to be honest, they should be clinging to guns given the prospect of an Obama/Biden ticket.
It’s a smaller world now, Mike.
I can find the goings-on in Walla Walla with a click of the finger….In ’83, not so much.
But to say about how it was in the past, do some research on the Scotch-Irish of Appalachia and learn how receptive they were to the outside world. Isolation, be it economically, socially or geographic will create a false perception of something new. Tradition is everything, because it’s the only thing.
And it’s not about clinging to guns, per se…
…it’s about an issue to fight about, because it’s Identity. Again, it’s one of the few issues they believe they have a say..
Yeah, Chris. She is at Church with a pastor who decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Yep, just your normal run of the mill church for insane bible thumping religious nutjobs. Did you see her graduation speech and how easily she injects God into human events and decisions. Unfortunately, she is an extreme evangelical and you just can’t admit her philosophy is extreme and out of touch with America, a la BUSH.
“a pastor who decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell”
As opposed to one that screams “God Damn America”?
I think middle America will identify more with the former than the latter.
Why doesn’t anyone in the press mention the fact that she had an affair with her hubby’s business partner
“Why doesn’t anyone in the press mention the fact that she had an affair with her hubby’s business partner”
Probably because they don’t have any proof. But then again, it didn’t stop them from reporting faulty blog logic stories in the past so who knows..
“I am not convinced that Palin’s experience as a mayor or governor in Alaska meet the qualifications to be vice president”
Can someone tell me what makes Obama so much more qualified than Palin? Seriously, why is he SO much more qualified? He ran a campaign? He was a community organizer? What the hell is it that makes him qualified?
Her experience is at least equal to his and he is running for the presidency.
I have no time for rumors. Please think twice before posting unsubstantiated trash.
“a pastor who decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell”
As opposed to one that screams “God Damn America”?
Apples and oranges. One (a former marine) is railing against what he percieves as injustices commited by the country he has served. The other uses the ultimate hammer of eternal salvation/damnation.
Let’s just call a spade a spade, Palin is simply a pathological liar. Its no wonder the GOP loves her.
Well, there it is. DaveV has settled it! You cannot argue with facts. ; )
Funniest Analogy Ever
Von – Link doesn’t work
Chris – Can’t criticize the government, huh?
Yeah, that’s so American.
“I have no time for rumors. Please think twice before posting unsubstantiated trash.”
Hmmm, Jadegold does it consistently and you eat his BS up.
Sorry, try this one
Typical Kos crap. Degrade her as nothing more than a cheerleader for what they perceive to be the “losing team.” Hell, that’s what the conventions are, pep rallies, where folks pat eachother on the back. The Democratic primary was no less of a pep rally.
What a bunch of dumb juvenile crap from Kos, but hey what else is the left going to attack her on if not petty juvenile crap?
have to admit it was pretty clever…
and not everyone is soooo serious all the time.
You know that KOS is a user-content driven site, right? Some are wacky, some are spot on, and a few are just trying to figure things out for themselves. But at least they have a venue to air whatever they wish….even if it’s trollish.
If this keeps up the next thing you know we will be running the Mayor of Newport for VP
Damn TT! Which Newport?I can’t do 2.5 million hits off Google.
Von – I seem to remember someone here once saying that the things they say and post here do reflect upon the candidates they support, be it negatively or positively.
Daily Kos is no different. Did any of you click on my Rachel Lucas link?
“It’s a smaller world now, Mike.
I can find the goings-on in Walla Walla with a click of the finger….In ‘83, not so much.”
And that changes nothing about how Obama’s comments were received, nor does it change what I said on my blog about the subject or what I said in comment #19
“Her experience is at least equal to his and he is running for the presidency.”
Bundy – They can’t acknowledge this because Obama & his supporters have been saying for months now that his lack of experience doesn’t matter, and that it’s even an asset. Palin’s lack of experience is a big deal of course (because she has an “R” next to her name) Their hypocrisy is incredible.
To answer the question of why her experience (or lack thereof) does not sit well with some as compared to Obama’s is that he threw his hat in the ring, was vetted by millions of Democrats and was found to be worthy of being a standard bearer of the party. She was selected in a process so secret even the supposed leader of the process cannot tell you with any convincing authority what was the reason for her selection.
It is granted that Obama has a less than voluminous track record, but his selection was public, democratic, and orderly. The selection of a vice-presidential candidate is always the choice of the candidate or those advising him or her. But people tend to want a selection to be comforting, assuring and reasonable.
I’m not saying that the good Governor cannot be those things given time (though it was an interesting choice of speeches if that was the goal). What I am saying is that she is a relative unknown and her lack of depth of experience is magnified on the broader stage, without the vetting by voting process of a primary candidate. When there is not much to talk about with a candidate with regards to solid credentials people are going to rumor monger and highlight the minutest detail of the past that comes to light form the most remote of sources – or at least even more so than someone who’s been on the stage for months and months.
Thrown into this mix is the fact that she is the second to a person with decades old health problems and has had at least four bouts with the deadliest form of skin cancer. This intensifies the doubts about her record that are known not only on face value but on the thought that her publicly stated politics do not match those of the Presidential candidate.
My guess is that this pick, other than providing some base-solidifying energy in a post-convention bounce is going to have little positive effect overall. People tend to vote for the main candidate. I suspect some of those enamored with her now will lose some of that over the next few weeks as those differences with McCain are highlighted. And, God-forbid, if McCain gets a sneeze or a sniffle over the next 2 months, this lack of experience will come crashing to the fore, because people are going to have to start thinking about her as a President, not a VP. No doubt this pick was a huge gamble, but one that seems to be working for the time being.
perfectly said
I’m recommending Political Observer’s post!