Deep Thought: People Like Unity
Do you like unity?
If you like a country divided by race, sexual orientation, class and culture, vote for John McCain. He promises to keep Americans at war with each other.
If you like a country united by our shared American values of justice, equal opportunity and prosperity for all – vote for Barack Obama. He promises to bring the country together.
Who do we vote for just to get rid of YOU?
Sorry, you have no vote. We’re keeping Jason… in the name of unity! đ
“If you like a country united by our shared American values of justice, equal opportunity and prosperity for all – vote for Barack Obama. He promises to bring the country together…”
…unless, of course, you make more that $250, er, $200, er, $150,000. Then you’re toast.
Toast? A little dramatic, don’t you think?
I happen to know a few people in that income range who are not a greedy unpatriotic bastards.
You should get out more Dave. It is a wide world out there. Not everyone votes based on their perception of their own very narrow, short term financial gain or loss.
who do you vote for if you want your own island with a moat, electric fence and armed guards to keep everyone away from you?
That would be a McCain voter I’m thinking.
“If you like a country divided by race, sexual orientation, class and culture, vote for John McCain.”
I’m pretty sure Americans will still be of different races, sexual orientations, classes and cultures if obama wins.
I want you to stop and think for a moment about what barack is promising here. You folks are setting the bar pretty high. Gates of heaven high.
I think a lot of people say they like unity, but really do not like it. Why else would we constantly divide ourselves up into in groups and others. Look at sports team fans if you think I am wrong! It must be human nature.
Of course I would like America united to be a force for good in the world. I am ok with differences, though, they do not scare me.
Tom S thanks for missing the point so completely. You are qualified for a job at the DE GOP. Congratulations!
“out of many, one” get it?
Don’t feel bad though, Dave missed the point too. In part this post is about what a winning campaign theme sounds like versus a losing campaign theme.
Our esteemed host wrote:
He has promised many things, but even if our country is so foolish as to elect him, he won’t be able to deliver on many of them — and he certainly won’t be able to deliver on “unity.”
The basic governing principle of liberalism is that “we know better than you do how to run your life and manage your money.” Were Mr Obama to be elected, he will try to take more of our money to fund programs without which we have survived for two centuries. If Mr Obama wins, he will try to “spread thye wealth,” by taking money (and property?) away from people who have earned them, to give to people who have not.
It isn’t conservatives who try to pass bans on trans-fatty acids or tell you where you can and can’t smoke. It isn’t conservatives who will try to force you to participate in some government-mismanaged health care system. And it isn’t conservatives who want to seize people’s guns.
Jason also wrote:
Is it your opinion, then, that people wanting to keep their own property are greedy and unpatriotic?
I am always amazed at the hypocrisy of those who think that people’s private property is somehow really public wealth, yet lock their doors at night and retain private property themselves.
When you have given away all that you have, come back and tell us about how greedy and unpatriotic other people are.
Dana,
Thanks for providing the views of a greedy unpatriotic bastard!
We are all about fairness and balance here.
Yes, comrade. Unity for all – equality for all – except some are more equal than others…
It is my hearts desire for brainiacs like vyllyness, Dave and Dana continue to deride unity.
If being out of touch with the concerns of normal Americans was an Olympic sport, these guys would be Michael Phelps.
You can see the difficulty here, right? The business of unity is going to depend on some small bit of unselfishness towards a larger goal. That larger goal can be a simple (and as urgent) as paying for a mistaken war still thought to be a good idea by some. These very same folks will pre-emptively demonize any new program spending as something that can’t be paid for, while utterly ignoring that the business they’ve been cheerleading for over the past 8 years haven’t been paid for, either. Including their cherished tax cuts. And while we’re dealing with finances, perhaps you’ve noticed the recession that BushCo is leaving us to live with. But count on the 23 percenters to always be more interested in themselves than in the health of the county. It is, fundamentally, how we got here in the first place.
The unity business that Obama talks about is not some hippie vision of flowers, pot and free love for all. It is about not conducting a politics of divide and conquer. No dogwhistling, no ginning up fear, not patriotism tests, none of the BS that has been the stock and trade of the Frank Luntz-trained GOP. Certainly he is saying that this won’t be the tactic of an Obama White House. BushCo’s lowest approval ratings in history are partially due to the bullshit way he treats us — why would anyone want to keep that up?
It is amazing to me that people who rage against taxes and hail personal responsibility aren’t here screaming about our country’s debt. We owe a lot of money. It’s like running up your Mastercard and then handing the bill to your children. So much for personal responsibility.
Our country is in a huge, financial mess. There are no easy answers, but I’ll be damned if I’m okay with the next generation paying for our excesses. If there’s any belt tightening to do, I’ll do it. And, to me, that’s putting Country First.
We’re going to sell Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia, Brooklyn and Bronx to our debtors. Word has it they wouldn’t touch Wilmington…..
It is amazing to me that people who rage against taxes and hail personal responsibility arenât here screaming about our countryâs debt. We owe a lot of money. Itâs like running up your Mastercard and then handing the bill to your children. So much for personal responsibility.
Obviously, pandora, you’ve been talking to Republicans and not Libertarians.
We’ve been screaming about that debt for years.
..for all the good it has done.
Just like how you guys were all against the Iraq war. Please.
Now, Steve, I was very careful not to use labels – Smitty’s very sensitive! đ
My point is: We need to clean up our mess. And I’m sick and tired of “certain” peoples selfish behavior.
I agree–but that includes not promising a massive tax cut that reduces income to the Treasury by 3 billion dollars over the next ten years when we are already 11 Trillion in debt, sinking rapidly, and promising new government programs to everyone in sight.
But as for “selfish” behavior–if you are serious about reducing debt, then regardless of what you do with taxes, you have to reduce spending. Yes, there is a certain dividend from withdrawing from Iraq or curtailing corporate welfare, but it ain’t nearly enough.
The problem for the past four decades is that both sides have been willing to make only easy choices to satisfy their constituents, and not the tough decisions about debt, spending, and the services we can actually afford.
jason
Don’t go making it up again. Third party lack of access to media does not equate with whatever position you’d like to assign.
A far higher proportion of Libertarians were opposed to this war from the start than, say, Democrats. Most of whom waited at least a couple years or more before they retroactively decided this had been a bad idea.
Except for Barack Obama, who actually called it at the time, your party’s record is one of accommodation and rolling over for at least the first six years of the war….
Even John Kerry ran on “I can do it better” and not “We shouldn’t be there”
You’re not free to reinvent history just to make yourself feel better about your party’s lack of steel in its collective spine….
Every time you write “Libertarians” replace it with “magical fairies” for all the impact Libertarians have had.
That said, if the disaffected Republicans can get over being aligned with an absolutely impotent political movement, you guys do stand to pick up some members with the upcoming GOP civil war.
That is a big if.
âIf you like a country divided by race, sexual orientation, class and culture, vote for John McCain.â
Whether Obama or McCain wins America will still be more united than most other nations on earth, there’s no need to act like a president can change America unless people are willing either way.
It’s obvious that McCain is more centrist than Obama. A McCain win would tend to stifle the Right but if Obama wins he will cause the Right to be more active, etc.
Itâs obvious that McCain is more centrist than Obama.
No it is not.
A McCain win would tend to stifle the Right
No… any Republican would leave in place all the “heckuva job” appointees, the Messiah College mafia, and the politicized DOJ, just for starters. That is the infrastructure of the Right.
if Obama wins he will cause the Right to be more active
I’ll give you that. The VRWC is already gathering their flying monkeys.
jason
At least the magic fairies have been on the correct side of many issues you Dems had to learn from experience….
The impact of Libertarians, Greens, etc. is limited not by the quality of ideas but the height of the barriers you Democrats and Republicans have erected around ballot access and campaign financing to insure that Americans only get two choices on any political issue.
Your partners: the Republicans.
You should feel so proud.
Your ideological purity can and $3.00 can get you a coffee at starbucks.
Meanwhile, people like you could have had some kind of impact within a political party but you opted out.
Sleep well.
jason
Just curious: to you not being a card-carrying member of either the Dems or GOP constitutes “opting out”?
You have a very limited idea of political activism, and you know nothing of which you speak.
Which is, I suppose, better than your normal practice of simply making assertions that have no basis in fact.
Tell me: aside from this heady little blog that gets read by a few hundred people each day, what kind of impact have you had?
Just curious: to you not being a card-carrying member of either the Dems or GOP constitutes âopting outâ?
Yes.
Tell me: aside from this heady little blog that gets read by a few hundred people each day, what kind of impact have you had?
Over 3,000 unique visitors per week; Journalists, politicians, acitvists, utopian dreamers like yourself.
I don’t know where everyone is getting all tied up over this post. I read it pretty simply based on where they stand on certain issues and what I’ve been hearing from each pulpit. I don’t understand how envisioning a country more united is wrong. Thankfully there are people like Obama and others that believe that there should be a fair sense of “equality”. If there wasn’t. I wouldn’t be where I am today just for the simple fact that I’m not white.
YES, YES, YES… THE BAR IS SET HIGH!! WHEN DID IT BECOME UN-AMERICAN TO SET THE BAR HIGH! WHEN DID IT BECOME OK TO NOT SHOOT FOR THE MOON!
“The basic governing principle of liberalism is that âwe know better than you do how to run your life and manage your money.â Were Mr Obama to be elected, he will try to take more of our money to fund programs without which we have survived for two centuries. If Mr Obama wins, he will try to âspread thye wealth,â by taking money (and property?) away from people who have earned them, to give to people who have not. ”
And where in God’s name did Obama say this? Taking the wealthy and giving it to everyone else? Doesn’t he have the ENDORSEMENT OF THE FILTHIEST RICH MAN IN THE UNITED STATES? Don’t you think he’d be a little less becoming to Obama if that was the case?
“It isnât conservatives who try to pass bans on trans-fatty acids or tell you where you can and canât smoke. It isnât conservatives who will try to force you to participate in some government-mismanaged health care system. And it isnât conservatives who want to seize peopleâs guns.”
For starters, since I’m a 110% health nut and I advocate to my children along with everyone else that YOU SHOULD NOT EAT STUFF WITH TRANS FATTY ACIDS! Yes, they should ban it! THAT’S NOT A PARTY ISSUE, THAT’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIVING TILL YOUR OLD AGE OR DYING SOONER. Smoking- I’m tired of people blowing smoke in my face. If you don’t want smoking banned, then “smokers” should wear a mask that blows the air right back at them. Again, grow old, die young? Hmmm, hard choice. I guess, you’re also not tired of paying deductibles, co-pays, paying 30 dollars for one tylenol. I guess it was ok for a friends Grandmother to die and not to get treatment since she was refused coverage because it was a “pre-existing” condition. Furthermore, I guess we should just be ok with completely negating the ability of the gay and lesbian community to show their unity. We should also be ok with completely taking away the woman’s right to CHOOSE their fate even if it was in a case of rape or incest. I guess it’s ok to continue denying people like my friends Grandmother the care they needed because they either can’t afford it or can’t afford the “right” one. I think my Grandmom was waiting on that trickle down effect check and never got it either.
AND yet we’re worried about the right for people to have guns. WOW! No wonder this country is a mess! Hopefully, you never get a chance to test that great Healthcare plan you have with something that they’ll deem somewhere down in your record to have had an issue with or related to that would deem it to be a “pre-exisiting condition”…
No it is not.
What issues does Obama disagree with the Left on?
That is the infrastructure of the Right.
Exactly, history shows that when an establishment is left in place in which reformers feel that they have an opportunity to work within a system then they don’t work to change the whole system from the outside in a more revolutionary way. E.g., heretics vs. orthodoxy in the reformation movements in the Catholic church, Puritans vs. Pilgrims, etc. Placing the Right outside the system at a time when the system itself may be collapsing of its own corrupt weight will probably ultimately help the Right.
It’s also likely that if the Republican party doesn’t allow an outlet for reform towards the Right within its political system then third parties will begin to succeed.
The VRWC is already gathering their flying monkeys.
I don’t know what the VRWC is. I could guess that it’s probably the Very Right Wing Christians of the Messiah College Mafia or some such. All I would say of that is what a Catholic writer said when someone pointed out what a sinner they were, “I know, and I would have done even more if if I wasn’t Catholic!” You haven’t seen anything until atheists or pagans run a political system.
What’s the Messiah College Mafia, anyway?
3,000/7=429 unique visitors per day
a few hundred
And your impact?
I donât know what the VRWC is…. Whatâs the Messiah College Mafia, anyway?
You, sir, are a virgin in a whorehouse.
Steve,
When I get you to admit that “libertarians” as a stand alone party are useless, my work will be done.
If you donât want smoking banned, then âsmokersâ should wear a mask that blows the air right back at them.
I don’t care about smoking per se. In fact I like the results of smoking bans, I just don’t agree with the reasoning behind them based on “national health” and the like. I don’t want the State or politicians trying to care for my health, mainly because I know that they really don’t care about my health half as much as I do.
Also, it’s a dangerous shift in thinking to begin creating policies based on “national health”:
I guess it was ok for a friends Grandmother to die and not to get treatment since she was refused coverage because it was a âpre-existingâ condition.
The State isn’t going to care whether their grandmother lives or dies because it doesn’t really care about her health. The focus of politicians typically isn’t individuals, it’s voting blocs or the general welfare. History shows that if they feel that they can get elected based on a revolutionary youth vote then they may be perfectly willing to let the old die for the sake of the general welfare. Of course insurance companies don’t care about her health but why do you naively assume that the State would? There is very little historical evidence that it would.
Furthermore, I guess we should just be ok with completely negating the ability of the gay and lesbian community to show their unity.
They can already show their unity just like everyone else.
We should also be ok with completely taking away the womanâs right to CHOOSE their fate even if it was in a case of rape or incest.
You’re simply supporting the judiciary taking away the rights of communities, families and parents to make their own judgments just like they do on many other issues.
I guess itâs ok to continue denying people like my friends Grandmother the care…
The simple fact is that most people don’t care about your friends grandmother, so the only way to get her care is either through harnessing people’s other interests through capitalism or supporting spiritual values of hospitality and charity in people’s minds. Ironically the public education system has been “separated” and set against religion and spiritual capital only lasts so long. If you’re really interested in getting people to care about and care for your friend’s grandmother then the last thing you should do is support a candidate who supports the tendency of the judiciary to pull judgments out of its own penumbras.
I think my Grandmom was waiting on that trickle down effect check and never got it either.
Actually the whole world has benefited from the trickle down effect of American capitalism. It’s not perfect and everyone doesn’t get everything they need, it’s just a more realistic approach than expecting that the State or politicians will create wealth, care about grandmom, etc.
The past month has been a pretty amazing study in the trickle down effects of American capitalism especially as aided and abetted by the wingnuts.
Also, itâs a dangerous shift in thinking to begin creating policies based on ânational healthâ:
Wow, I guess all health nuts are Nazis too then. Since the Nazis actually had some sense when it came to this specific issue. Let’s not do what’s right for the sake of sticking it to Hitler.
“The State isnât going to care whether their grandmother lives or dies because it doesnât really care about her health. The focus of politicians typically isnât individuals, itâs voting blocs or the general welfare. History shows that if they feel that they can get elected based on a revolutionary youth vote then they may be perfectly willing to let the old die for the sake of the general welfare. Of course insurance companies donât care about her health but why do you naively assume that the State would? There is very little historical evidence that it would. ”
Do me a favor, go to Canada- fall and break your leg and tell me if they refuse to treat you since you don’t have insurance. BTW- I’ve been there and that actually did happen and I received care.
This isn’t about the youth vote, it’s about a generalization you made regarding Liberals. Your statement right there just further solidifies my point. Yes, the right will do anything to win. WE KNOW. We suffered 8 YEARS because of it.
“The simple fact is that most people donât care about your friends grandmother”-
You’re right, that’s why there needs to be a change in the way people think…
“, so the only way to get her care is either through harnessing peopleâs other interests through capitalism or supporting spiritual values of hospitality and charity in peopleâs minds. Ironically the public education system has been âseparatedâ and set against religion and spiritual capital only lasts so long. If youâre really interested in getting people to care about and care for your friendâs grandmother then the last thing you should do is support a candidate who supports the tendency of the judiciary to pull judgments out of its own penumbras.”
I’m all for making money, I’m not for making money at the expense of other people. Number two, what does “spiritual capital” mean exactly? Believing in the same God as you do? Not everybody is on a crusade to deem our war policy as an “ACT of god”.
“Youâre simply supporting the judiciary taking away the rights of communities, families and parents to make their own judgments just like they do on many other issues.”
How is that when it IS the woman’s right to make that choice? No one is ever Pro-Abortion. It’s the CHOICE that matters. What you propose is no CHOICE. That’s the problem.
“They can already show their unity just like everyone else.”
Really?- Is marriage legal in all States? Last I checked, it isn’t.
“Actually the whole world has benefited from the trickle down effect of American capitalism. Itâs not perfect and everyone doesnât get everything they need, itâs just a more realistic approach than expecting that the State or politicians will create wealth, care about grandmom, etc.”
No one is debating the fact that this country has been the “lighthouse” for so long. What I am saying is that this lighthouse is in need of an overhaul and it hasn’t happened. We have the opportunity now to make that overhaul happen and ensure that this country will have something left for the rest of our kids.
If you keep banging your head on the wall and your head is bleeding and you think that by banging your head on the wall, it’ll stop… Isn’t that insanity?
Then WHY keep doing the same thing yet AGAIN, for the next 4 years unless you feel that these past 8 have been so great.
Wasn’t that one of Reagan’s great lines or something to that effect: “If you like what has been the last 4, then vote for him… If not, vote for me”…
Wow, I guess all health nuts are Nazis too then. Since the Nazis actually had some sense when it came to this specific issue.
Many health nuts are like Nazis, it’s not that smoking is goo d and healthy it’s that the reasoning about national health is false and typically dangerous.
Do me a favor, go to Canada- fall and break your leg and tell me if they refuse to treat you since you donât have insurance. BTW- Iâve been there and that actually did happen and I received care.
You’d receive care in the US just the same. Thanks to capitalism you might even receive care from people who don’t really care about you but the simple fact is that people in the West generally care as a result of the Christian ethic of hospitality by which hospitals came about in the first place. This is what I meant by spiritual capital. However, given that progressives tend to believe in a grand mythology of Progress rooted in the Darwinian creation myth that type of spirit of caring may dissipate. Given that type of mythology the weak can be left to die out, just as they are in other species.
This isnât about the youth vote, itâs about a generalization you made regarding Liberals. Your statement right there…
What statement?
How is that when it IS the womanâs right to make that choice? No one is ever Pro-Abortion.
Of course they are, that’s the original reason that Planned Parenthood set up their clinics in black neighborhoods and so on.
Itâs the CHOICE that matters. What you propose is no CHOICE. Thatâs the problem.
Not at all, I’m for letting parents, families and communities make their own judgments and choices. The notion that a teenage girl’s judgment and choices are of such paramount importance that the federal judiciary must negate the judgments and choices of parents, families and communities is absurd. The fact that the judiciary is willing to pull judgments out of its own penumbras in order to negate the choices and judgments of parents and communities only shows how corrupted by power the judiciary is. As Thomas Jefferson noted of those who pollute language the Constitution itself becomes a “thing of wax” in their hands.
If you keep banging your head on the wall and your head is bleeding and you think that by banging your head on the wall, itâll stop⌠Isnât that insanity?
Both Obama and McCain are going to keep on banging their heads against the wall in similar ways, it’s just likely that the American Empire and American civilization will decline faster if Obama is elected because he will speed up the process of socialism, decadence, etc.
The past month has been a pretty amazing study in the trickle down effects of American capitalism….
What’s capitalistic about the government trying to help poor people get homes, bailing out banks that fail, etc.?
We know, we know, words do not have fixed meanings in mynym-world.
It might comfort you to know that Rick Jensen plays these same games. Suddenly Bush is not a conservative. Poof!
You are not as alone as you think you are.