It’s all about the Pensions
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCwyVMiiCSA&eurl=http://crooksandliars.com/[/youtube]
Worth watching. Who has Deregulation helped?
Line of the interview?
“I’m tired of having my shoes thrown up on” Steelworkers Union President
Big Business thinks that contracts are made to be ripped-up.
Good to know for the next time I talk to GloboCorpse about the terms of “our” agreement.
Doesn’t his union want to “deregulate” the union organization process with the Card Check provision of the Employee ‘Free Choice’ Act? Doesn’t ‘Free Choice’ translate to removing union orginization techniques from NLRB oversight aka “regulation”? Who’s the hypocrite?
It isn’t the best of idea, but they are trying to get an open vote for a reason and I’m pretty sure you know why.
time and again these votes are mysteriously being voted down and it makes no sense. they have their suspisions, but can’t prove anything.
You know when Republicans think that the “open vote” is a bad idea that something stinks to high heaven.
I know exactly why. Union organization intimidation and harrassment can’t be effective if you don’t know who doesn’t want to join a union. The card check system only polices one side of the “suspicious activity” street for some “mysterious” reason. And the union private ballot votes are only “mysterious” in the eyes of labor management as to why people don’t want to join unions. And I’m not a Republican.
Card Check legislation DOES NOT remove the secret ballot provisions. It does add the card check ballot choice and it is the employees who get to choose which method they want to vote by.
The card check has a faster timelime and does not give management time to intimidate and fire folks who are organizing.
lol
And I’m not a Republican.
you just sound like one…
And who oversees the card check system of signing up workers….. Is that addressed anywhere in the bill? Doesn’t it leave any room for at least a remote possibility of union intimidation into signing a card? I didn’t see any.
Because I think the NLRB addresses what can happen to a company that engages in wrongful termination practice.
Also, I think the text of the bill is pretty clear about whether the secret ballot provision is removed…
“If the Board finds that a majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for bargaining has signed valid authorizations designating the individual or labor organization specified in the petition as their bargaining representative and that no other individual or labor organization is currently certified or recognized as the exclusive representative of any of the employees in the unit, the Board shall not direct an election but shall certify the individual or labor organization as the representative described in subsection (a).”
If there’s another provision that I’m missing, I’m all ears.
0h and PWNED by cass
yep, it makes sense, all those employees at Walmart want those low wages, poor health care, not able to take breaks etc.
no reason for them to want anything more than the great gift of a job
it’s all about those EVIL unions. You know the ones that ruined our auto industry!
That text is what gives the employees the option of a card check or living with the secret ballot. And as for oversight, the NLRB oversees either the secret ballot of the card check process.
Except that NLRB rules and regs for labor relations haven’t exactly been enforced since LBJ was President. So card check just gives the NLRB one more thing to not pay attention to. There is no real reason why workers shouldn’t get the chance to choose how they get decide to organize or not.
“you just sound like one”
I’m just well versed on the issue. If that makes me sound like a Republican, then so be it. And if that is intended to be an insult, then so be it as well. But I do note that you haven’t called me a liar yet.
I just wanted to point out that “hypocracy” can exist while someone’s calling someone else a hypocrite.
You’ll never convince me that this is a good bill, and I doubt I’d ever be able to convince anyone on this site that it’s a bad bill.
And please don’t interpret my position as anti-union. I believe that unions still play a useful and necessary role for employees who don’t have access to management (i.e very large companies/governement employees) to negotiate their own wages. I start having a problem with unions when they start trying to organize small businesses that have an actual rapport with their own employees. They serve no good purpose in that context other than to muscle out union competition and control companies. But that’s just an observation and opinion.
Who has Deregulation helped?
Consumers, for one.
And Don, I’ve lived in a right to work state my entire life. Oddly, I’ve never missed having to fork over a percentage of my wages for somebody to determine that I shouldn’t be allowed to take on duties, change my hours, climb the corporate ladder, etc., because somebody else isn’t getting the benefit of my work. Oh, and don’t forget unions running ads against political candidates I support.
And if you don’t like Wal-Mart, don’t work there.
“That text is what gives the employees the option of a card check or living with the secret ballot. And as for oversight, the NLRB oversees either the secret ballot of the card check process.”
I don’t see that anywhere in the text maybe I’m missing it. How is the card check option “overseen”? All I see is this. “If the Board finds that a majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for bargaining has signed valid authorizations…the Board shall not direct an election but shall certify the individual or labor organization ”
I’d also be interested to know as to what constitutes “intimidation” and “firing threats”. Don’t you think that the company should at least be able to make it’s case to it’s employees as to why unionizing would be a bad idea? I mean seriously, you guys can’t think of a single reason why it would be bad for an employee to join a union? Not one? For example, say 20 employee non-union company becomes a union company under the new system. And of course, union wages are now being paid… How does the company provide for the increased payroll? (Almost 40% in some cases) Don’t they have to lay off workers? Does that count as a threat of firing, if a company indicates that union wages will force some layoffs because while the wages have now increased by 40%, the revenues have not… And obviously take the Wal-Marts out of the equation. Talk to me about small business. I’ve already conceded that unions for giant companies are both good and necessary.
If you are a worker where there is organizing, don’t vote for it if you don’t want it. If there is a union, there is always other employment, right?
But the bottom line is that workers should be able to choose for themselves without the usual illegal interference of management.
“But the bottom line is that workers should be able to choose for themselves without the usual illegal interference of management.”
Can’t I say this the same way?
“But the bottom line is that workers should be able to choose for themselves without the usual illegal interference of union organizers”
“If there is a union, there is always other employment, right?”
I believe it depends on your seniority status in most unions…
If that’s the case, and that’s made known to the employees by the company does that constitute intimidation. My problem with the whole bill is that the information highway is a one way street. You at least have to concede that about the bill right?
Whatever that illegal interference is — for management is is firing pro-union workers, changing up schedules or work assignments and it takes the abused worker years to chase a challenge through the system. And the worst case scenario is a few grand of damages for the employer. The cost of doing business.
I still fail to see why — if folks are so concerned about an employee’s right to choose — it is such a bad thing to be able to choose to have a quick card check election (not giving employers a chance to ramp up their union-busting consultants and massive Say No campaigns) or to have a secret ballot.
You at least have to concede that about the bill right?
Nope. This bill pretty much balances out the information highway — and gives the NLRB one more set of rules to overlook.
I understand your position, but when you use the term “union busting consultants and Say No campaigns” you give short shrift to the tactics whether illegal or not, of the union organizers. You miss the point of the card check system, if a union gets 51% of signatures, then the company is essentially a union. The company gets no opportunity to show people what effect a union will have on the company… Do you think that’s a good thing? Do you really think that union organizers are going to explain the seniority system to a 22 year old kid that they are trying to sign up? I doubt it. All they’d hear about is a higher paycheck. But that comes with some drawbacks that I doubt would be discussed or disclosed during an organization movement. Does disclosing the drawbacks of joining a union constitutes union busting?
A quick note after reading some of my comments. I don’t think that all union organizers engage in unfair tactics of threats/intimidation and coercion. I know several organizers who are moral ethical and great people. But I also know from personal experience of the bad apples of organization movements. They do exist, just as there are bad apple companies that probably should be organized. So please don’t mistake my general comments as a global condemnation of union organizers. That’s not the point I was trying to convey. And my apologies if it came across that way. Thanks for the dialogue Cassandra.
“I still fail to see why — if folks are so concerned about an employee’s right to choose — it is such a bad thing to be able to choose to have a quick card check election (not giving employers a chance to ramp up their union-busting consultants and massive Say No campaigns) or to have a secret ballot.”
Because you know damn well they won’t get that choice. EFCA takes the employers out of the equation and practically encourages any type of union intimidation.
And you damn well not to bring those stupid talking points over here where people can 1) read the legislation in question and 2) are not under the sway of the Chamber of Commerce.
There certainly is a choice and there is nothing in the text of the proposed law — and I do mean nothing — that takes away the secret ballot if those people want that. Employers are not statutorily in the organizing equation now. They do jump in with their own delaying and intimidation tactics. What it also DOES do is to up the penalty (not enough) for employer illegal shenanigans. Your friends at the Chamber do not want this thing because a quick card check takes away the opportunity for their union busting consultants to do their thing. Which strikes me as just fine.
Peddle the Chamber’s talking points over on your own blog where folks are not so likely to go read the text of the thing for themselves.
pwned and pwned….
If you are a worker where there is organizing, don’t vote for it if you don’t want it. If there is a union, there is always other employment, right?
But the bottom line is that workers should be able to choose for themselves without the usual illegal interference of management.
What about the business owners? Don’t they get a choice?
now that is funny
based on about 8% of country being union if that…I’d say they got their choice Sharon
That is funny.
Go back and look up the definition of Labor Union, Sharon.
Sharon; you have livid in a right to work state all your life, are you proud of the fact that the bottom 10 states in per capita income are right to work states. your not free to chose your just to stupid to fight for your far share of the profits produced by your labor.
Ray K: That’s not true. Kentucky is a bottom-1o state and they are not RTW. WV and NM, too.
Plus, every recent auto plant built by foreign companies has been in a RTW state. They’re kicking ass in drawing manufacturers.
“if those people want that.”
Cass — How do those people declare that they want a secret ballot?
In the same way they decide for card check — a vote.
Is that a secret vote?
And they decide for a card check by a secret ballot vote?
like I said, when a republican is standing up fairness and unions something is really wrong
To FSP; your pride in obtaining jobs by lowering workers compensation is the very reason we are headed for dire economic straits, In the third quarter of this year disposable income fell at it`s largest percentage since they began tracking it in 1947. The more disposable income we lose the less our chances of having a growth economy become. Business does not create jobs their customers do. The more you cheer lower wages the more are chances of developing a third world economy. Ive lived in both florida and texas and was delighted to leave both RTW states. Poverty is not a blessing it`s a curse that lands on the unorginized and uninformed worker.
So you’re admitting you were wrong, then. Great.
“The more you cheer lower wages the more are chances of developing a third world economy.”
Still looking for where I did that. Feel free to point it out to me.
FSP; in your statement , they are kicking ass attracting jobs. They are attracting jobs by agreeing to work for lower wages. You can`t see that as a pathway to a third world economy? As far as RTW only one state ranks in the top 15 and 90% are in the bottom 15, are you honestly proud of that? your a strange bird if you are.
If you were here for the recent discussion about Big 3 vs. foreign wages, you’ll know that there is little difference in those wages. But hey, keep the myths alive!
FSP; I fail to see what that has to do with workers working for less in the rtw states , please stay on topic and discuss intelligently.
They decide by a vote or petition and it only takes 30% of a potential bargaining unit asking for a secret ballot to get one. Which no matter how you cut it still leaves the choices in the workers’ hands. Which seems about right to me.
Sharon; you have livid in a right to work state all your life, are you proud of the fact that the bottom 10 states in per capita income are right to work states. your not free to chose your just to stupid to fight for your far share of the profits produced by your labor.
I’m proud of the fact that (a) I can spell and (b) I can change jobs in my field if I don’t like the employer and not be trapped by some union that dictates what my employer can and can’t do. I’m not held hostage by a union that confiscates part of my hard-earned money for the benefit of the union and union bosses. I’m far from stupid, jackass. It’s a good thing you aren’t here anymore. BTW, if you are too stupid to negotiate your salary, I guess you need a union to do it for you. Me? Not so much. My skills do the talking for me.
Saron you are the problem with our economy, your out of hand rejection of labor unions has caused disposable income to keep falling off the cliff even when corporate profits were soaring, people like you make it to easy for corporations to pay their workers less and use it as a short cut to a better bottom line. in the process disposible income that is criticle to a growth economy evaporates leaving all of us with this horrible economy.
Wages overall have not keep up with inflation for over a decade, and now we are paying the price. The steep decline in union membership is a big part of the problem. Companys like walmart can move into a region and cause an across the board decline in all wages and benefits with no fear of unions because you have bought the propoganda they put out that unions are evil. Congradulations for not taking the time to learn anything about economics and how capitilism works. Poverty is not a blessing it`s a curse that falls on people who are unorginized and uninformed. Sheep get fleeced.
“… your not free to chose your just to stupid to fight for your far share of the profits produced by your labor.”
This is the essence of the entitlement mentality.
“BTW, if you are too stupid to negotiate your salary, I guess you need a union to do it for you.”
Apparently, this is the primary reason for the existence of modern day unions, to negotiate (or, “fight”) for those who lack the balls, brains, and ambition to do it for themselves.
Miscreant, your point is valid, the harm comes to all of us when to many settle for less and can`t contribute to the overall economy. Then jobs are lost, innovation and job creation disappear and we are all the worse for it.
And why would ANYONE need more disposable income when we have credit cards?
NO KIDDING!