Breaking News! Protest Marching in Philly
Right down 19th and Market street in Philly protesters in support of Palestine are marching down 19th Street!
Of all the fines levied against him, how much will Donald Trump actually pay?
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i’m sure Lynn Abraham is loving that…. Brings back the good old days of Frank Rizzo, Wilson Goode and MOVE!!!
da roof!
da roof!
da roof is on fiah!
we dont need no water, let the mutha fuckas burn!
What are they protesting? That Hamas has brought death and destruction to their front doors? This tragedy can be squarely laid in the lap of Hamas and Hezbollah.
your myopia falls short of shocking
DV…
The Israeli consulate is nearby. They protest there often.
DV – I guess you would see things differently if you had family in Israel that was terrorized on a daily basis.
“your myopia”
how cute…did you just learn that word, fat head?
MJ: the Palestinans have had no food, no oil, no fuel no meds in months! Reduced to eating grass…those so called rockets they are firing are freakin homemade. I guess you think living in an occupied territory the size of New Castle County with l.5 million others (most under the age of 15) and being bombed with f16’s, bunker busters and other weapons of mass destruction is a good thing? Too bad you have lost your inhumanity to your fellow man. Hamas is a duly elected government and zionist Israel wants a regime change. Israel broke the truce on Nov 4th, when they killed 6 palestinans and blockaded any UN relief agencies, or any ships bringing in basic necessities of life. The entire world is against the War on the Palestinans, and Richard Falk the US (UN) Human Rights Chair was not permitted to go into Gaza by the Zionists to witness the horror the Zionists have leveled against the Palestinans for more than 2 years.
Suggestion: do a google: zionism vs. Judaism and get some education before you open mouth and insert foot.
One hundred dead Palestinans for l dead Israelie. How many Israelies have been killed by the homemade missles or a rock from a slingshot thrown by Palestinan kids at the tanks and bulldozers terrorizing their neighborhood…exactly 3. These are international crimes and the UN ambassdor Falk says, “any nation that supports Israel or delivers weapons of mass destruction to be used for inhumane practices must be delivered up to the International court.
This is nothing more than an zionist election coming up in Feb…and which of the candidates running can be the most cruel, most mean, and use the worst of extreme measures.
Israel is mandated by International Law as the occupier nation, to permit food, medicine and supplies into that country. Only 137 truckloads have been permitted in since June…guess you think starving 1.5million (mostly under the age of 15) is a ok. Bet you call yourself a lovely
Christian too.
The Palestinians are angry whiners who fire mortar rounds and people who have the technology to respond with counterbattery fire that goes to the point of origin and might involve some collateral damage to those who tolerate the launchers.
Hamas demands the destruction of Israel. Israel needs to destroy Hamas.
The picture of a terrist sympathizer with a sign reading ‘DEATH TO ALL JUICE (sic)’ may display the collective wisdom of the ‘Arab Street’.
Then again, the sign could refer to the killer footballer.
mj,
you are right. Very right I would say. However that doesn’t make your solution or opinion the correct one.
“Angry whiners” . Give me a break! If any country did to your country what the Israelis have done and continue to do to the Palestinians, you’d do more than whine.
And you don’t know if the civilians being killed by the Israeli bombs support the rockets, or not. They might — they might not. They are being terrorized in different ways on a daily basis and have been for years and might be a little tired of it.
blame the victims june…it’s all their fault that they don’t leave the land that the zionist say is theres
“brriiiiing*
ISRAEL: Hello, so sorry to bother you chaps, but did you notice a few rockets firing off from your place? I’m sure it was all a misunderstanding, maybe just some kids playing with fireworks, but could you have a talk with your lads and see if you can put a stop to it?
HAMAS: Oh my goodness, we denounce violence. I’ll ask around about these – what did you call them, “rockets?” Be right back… (pause)*muffled screams* Aieeeee-eeeeee!! *thud*… OK, I think we are good now… Please do call if you see any more rockets!
ISRAEL: Of course. A pleasure doing business with you! That is certainly a relief. By the way, we were thinking about opening up the border crossings. What’s good for you – will you be busy next Tuesday? Do you need anything? some petrol perhaps?
HAMAS: Why thank you… Tuesday would be fine. And some petrol would be just the thing!
ISRAEL: Tuesday it is, then. Oh and by the way, if it’s not too much trouble, could you please paint out the “Death to Israel” slogans on the petrol trucks?
HAMAS: Of course! Ancient history, my friend. Ha ha!
ISRAEL: Ha ha!
*click*
*click*
Liz, maybe if Hamas was smuggling food and medicine in through their tunnels instead of Iranian missiles and Chinese AK 47s you might have a point. Oh, and if the IDF has dropped tons of bombs on Pally territory and only managed to kill 60 or so civilians, despite the fact that Hamas is deliberately putting civilians at risk by launching from schools and apartment blocks, they must not have very good aim. Or very good aim.
anon,
you forgot the call before that
Israel: Hello? we are going to sit on your land and act like it is ours and not move
Hamas: ok, cool
Israel: it is ours anyway so suck it up
hamas: sweet
Israel: thanks
Hamas: no problem. do you want to sanction us and cut us off from the outside world and allow our people to die with no medical help or food
israel: Can we? that’d be great
Hamas: we will employ 8 year old children to dig tunnells so we can bring in food and medical supplies and stuff
israel: awesome, we will bomb them too
click
like I said, when G rex, Dana and David are all supporting Israel, you really need to rethink where you stand
GREX: you got any pictures of smuggling of weapons…if they were don’t you think they would have more than a few homemade bombs that could really do some damage. All I see is a bunch of young kids with sling slots throwing rocks at tanks. Do you not know that Israelie has the 3rd largest military in the world. They are using weapons of mass destruction, bunker busters, and weapons the UN has declared are against every International law. Why is the entire world up in arms! Why are there thousands of demonstrators both Christian, Jew and Muslims protesting the horror.
Again, if you dont understand the truth about what is going on there google: zionism vs. judaism, and see the horror inflicted on the Palestinans since 1948. Sorry, this is a humanitarian nightmare, the people of Gaza have a majority of children under 18, so are you for the slaughter of babies and kids? Get your facts before you insert your big foot into your big mouth.
Rex: you are a damn fool. Do you not understand that Gaza is the size of New Castle county with l.5 million people. Where the hell do you run too, where do you hide. Zionists are bombing schools, hospitals, mosques, police stations, etc…so where do you run too? Israel has check points around the entire Gaza, you can’t run into Israel..the ports are filled with Israelie gunboats, can’t escape by sea…where do you GO!
Donviti wrote:
OK, now just what does “in support of Palestine” mean? If you are going to support “Palestine,” or the Palestinians, just what does that actually mean that you support? Does it mean that you support some sort of two-state solution, with Israel and an independent Palestine living side-by-side in peace — the usual formulation after decades of scholars writing in Foreign Affairs, and getting nowhere — or does this mean you support the position of Hamas, that Israel must cease to exist, and the entire area be under Islamic control?
I think that you need to answer this question, at least to yourselves, before you state that you somehow support the Palestinians.
I think you need to use some of that common sense you supposedly have and reread my post and figure where it says that “I” support the palestinians…
Israel has check points around the entire Gaza, you can’t run into Israel..the ports are filled with Israelie gunboats, can’t escape by sea…where do you GO!
You could go to a VOTING BOOTH and get some new leaders, leaders who aren’t sworn to destroy the neighbor that holds your fate in its hands.
Or you could go to your uncle/brother/son/husband who is building and launching rockets or planning other assaults, and tell them to knock it off, because they are bringing Israeli bombs to your neighborhood.
Well, Mr Viti, just in general, tell us your position. I’m guessing that you won’t like mine.
This is, maybe, the most controversial issue in the world. Look at us on this blog. We’re not even close to agreeing on any part of it, so it is understandable why the Israelis and Palestinians will probably never come close to peace. That’s pretty negative, I know, but it would have to be a real miracle.
Does any believe in miracles?
HAVE A SAFE, HEALTHY, AND PEACEFUL NEW YEAR, EVERYONE !!
I’ve been to Israel twice, and was almost the victim of a suicide bombing because I was in a mall at the wrong time.
That said, I would simply like to state that there are many Arabs living peacefully and prosperously in Israel. I know because I met them. Face to face. The difference is that they choose to live peacefully side by side with the Jews. There are even Arab members of the Israeli Parliament. The Palestinians would be more than welcome to live in Israel if they chose to lay down their weapons.
I fear, now, that the wounds are too deep, and both sides will never trust the other.
Liz, do you even know what a Zionist is? You use it as a pejorative. Those rockets are not home-made – they were made in Iran, North Korea and China. And we all know where AK-47’s are made. Liz, you’re totally ignorant on this subject, so please, spare us your dribble and “expert opinion” on a subject you know nothing about. I’ve lived through this terror, and I have family living through it on a daily basis.
Hamas and Hezbollah are still clinging to the Grand Mufti’s fatwa to kill all of the Jews in Israel, to drive them into the sea. They refuse to accept Israel’s right to exist. Maybe this is the one thing that is needed to stamp out these terror organizations and restore the elected Palestinian government. Hamas basically staged a coup against Abbas.
I haven’t lost my humanity, I just want to stamp out the Nazis who are terrorizing my people. And the “entire world” is not against this action – only a few bleeding hearts who don’t know a thing about what is going on over there. Stick to Delaware politics – at least it’s something you might know (something) about. You’ll spare us from your ignorance and anti-Semitism.
And Liz, I would never call myself a Christian, because I’m Jewish.
“I guess you would see things differently if you had family in Israel that was terrorized on a daily basis.”
Just as you would see things differently if you had family in Gaza. Spare us.
Get a clue, Geezer. Israel didn’t start this, but she sure as hell is going to finish it.
Liz is not totally ignorant on this subject. What she is — unlike you, MJ — is unbiased. You have acknowledged your bias yourself. You compound it by accusing those who disagree with you of “anti-Semitism,” a truly comic charge considering that all of the Palestinians but only a portion of the Jews in the Middle East are ethnically Semitic.
Get a clue yourself, you warmongering ass.
Liz is just an apologist for Hamas and Hezbollah. I bet she has a picture of Ahmedinajad hanging over her bed.
Fuck you, Geezer. You have no idea about me or anything I stand for. You SCHMUCK.
And you are a warmonger. Call all the names you want — it won’t change what you are.
I read what you write. You are the worst kind of warmonger — the kind that won’t accept responsibility for it.
You say you have relatives in Israel. Were they born there, or did they immigrate? If they immigrated, what gave them the right — the fact that Yahweh told them it was OK?
Al, actually all of us who are Jewish, by birth, are Semitic. Again, you show your ignorance on the subject.
MJ: you are jewish, but are you a zionist. If you don’t know what a zionist is…do you own homework. go to google put in: zionism vs. judaism. If you are a Jew and don’t know what a zionist is…you know absolutely nothing.
Too bad you didnt hear Professor Khan last night on Down With Absolutes you could have received a real history lesson.
Zionism in two words: colonialists and rascists.
Get a clue, MJ
Israel started this in 1948 and has been “going to finish it” ever since.
How about I rain rockets down on your family everyday, make you feel unsafe going to the market or a restaurant. Am I then a freedom fighter? You really are a sorry sack of shit, Geezer.
No, you’re not Semitic. You’re probably Ashkenazi — 80% of Jews are. Look it up. You show your total ignorance if you don’t understand that basic fact.
I might be a sorry sack of shit, but at least I know a biased ass when I see one. Keep calling names — it really showcases your intellectual heft.
No, actually, if you’re lobbing rockets as a Jew in the Middle East, you are still an interloper who was given title to the land by a country in no position to offer it.
Oh, I wish I could give you all a history lesson. Maybe then you’d change your tune. Let’s go back to 1917 and the Balfour Declaration, promising a homeland in Palestine for the Jewish people, who had been escaping from pogroms in Eastern Europe. Fast forward 16 years when Hitler took power in Germany and every “civilized” country, including the US, turned a blind eye to the Holocaust.
Now let’s move to 1947, when the UN voted to partition Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem issued a fatwas declaring it was every Muslim’s duty to kill all of the Jews in Palestine. The mufti even had Nazi advisors. Israel wanted to live in peace, but was attacked by Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq. The Arab population was told to leave Palestine, that they would have Jewish homes to live in within days. Well, Israel survived and has spent the past 50 years defending itself from attack. She has always welcomed the Arabs back, but the Arab League refused to let them return.
And Zionists are not racists. Seems the UN tried to make that equation back in the 1970’s, but has since repealed that resolution.
I know the history of my people and my homeland – it’s too bad Liz, Geezer and those of your ilk do not.
Geezer, where do you think the Ashkenazi Jews emigrated from? Australia? Not only are you a sack of shit, you’re a stupid sack of shit.
I have no sympathy for Palestinian leaders who can’t get through their thick skulls that they cannot win through violence. I am on record as stating that once the Arab world finds its equivalent of Ghandi or MLK — someone who will convince people to die not by suicide bombs but by lying down in front of Israeli bulldozers on the West Bank — Israel will be finished.
Thanks to its bellicose leaders, Israel has become the very thing it intended to stand as the refutation of — naked, paranoid power lashing out against the innocent. Unless it changes, I believe it should be sanctioned by the rest of the world.
MJ,
If Israel is your homeland , what are you doing here?
MJ: The President of Iran has nothing whatsoever to do with the humanitarian horror going on in Gaza. Your ignorance of the situation is so blatant and obvious, you have nothing to debate. Why do you hide behind MJ, identify yourself so we all know who you are if you believe you are so right. I don’t hide anything and have sent Jason and Geek email so they can either post it or at least know the opposite side of this issue.
As June says, this is the most controversial issue in the world. Yet the world (outside the US) is knowledgeable on the issue. Richard Falk our UN Chair was not permitted entrance to Gaza, Why? Why are no western reporters permitted in? I get my information from the Jewish Voices for Peace, protesting against the zionist government in Israel every day. I also receive information from “inside” Gaza from the Gaza TV, pictures speak a thousand words. Are you not aware of the Dignity Ship carrying Cynthia McKinney and reporters that was fired on and rammed three times in international waters while attempting to deliver medicine? Do you believe denying medicine and food is humane?
I am not speaking to the politics of the issue but to the humanitarian horror of it all. Watch any TV station, you will see teenagers with sling shots and rocks going after tanks. The US has delivered 5billion dollars to Israel this year alone. More money than given to Africa, Egypt and the Caribbean combined. While we suffer here at home why are we giving our tax dollars to a nation that bombs with the worst weapons of mass destruction against a people who are imprisioned by check points, by gunboats at their seaports. No food gets through unless the zionists “feel” like opening a check point. The UN Relief agency had a show on Cspan last night reporting on how they can not deliver basic food and medicine unless the zionists “feel” like opening up the check point. Collective punishment has been the rule of law according to the Zionists. Jews in Israel despise the zionists running their government, thats why they are in the streets protesting in Israel, NY, LA and every major city in the US. Jews, Christians and Muslims are protesting worldwide.
Actually, you’re the one being stupid yet again, MJ. Look up the genetic differences between Semitic Jews and Ashkenazi Jews. You really are stunningly ignorant.
The Balfour Declaration was, in essence, the same idea that pre-Civil War northerners had in the U.S. — let’s ship the interlopers back where they came from.
Your homeland? Sez who? Yahweh again?
For all the differences I have with Liz, I will back up her credentials on this issue. She knows the arguments made by both sides, unlike MJ, who has swallowed Israeli propaganda without bothering to chew.
Delacrat, do you pose asinine questions everyday or only today because it’s New Year’s Eve?
MJ: you refuse to admit that zionism exists? You are denying what is a part of the government in Israel as we speak. Rabbis in NY and elsewhere state that “zionism is in opposition to Judaism”. If you deny that zionism is not alive and well in Israel and the US, you are a deranged fool. Google and see what you get….or are you afraid your views will be overruled by pure fact.
Geezer, if you knew the history of the Balfour Declaration, then you would know that Eastern European Jews were offered Uganda and not Palestine. They refused. So how is that “shipping interlopers back where they came from?”
Liz, you are an anti-Semitic, limousine liberal. Admit it and we might be able to move on to a more intelligent debate.
And I’ll add that, as Liz points out, US foreign aid to Israel is higher than to any other country in the world — nearly 20% of the total. Something right-wingers should keep in mind when they rail on and on about wasting money on foreign countries.
MJ,
To ask what you are doing here, when you call someplace else “my homeland” is not asinine.
Admit it. I have found a nerve.
Zionism, modern political movement for reconstituting a Jewish national state in Palestine.Early Years
The rise of the Zionist movement in the late 19th cent. was influenced by nationalist currents in Europe, as well as by the secularization of Jewish life in Eastern Europe, which led many assimilated Jewish intellectuals to seek a new basis for a Jewish national life. One such individual was Theodor Herzl, a Viennese journalist who wrote The Jewish State (1896), calling for the formation of a Jewish nation state as a solution to the Diaspora and to anti-Semitism. In 1897 Herzl called the first World Zionist Congress at Basel, which brought together diverse proto-Zionist groups into one movement. The meeting helped found Zionist organizations in most countries with large Jewish populations.
The first issue to split the Zionist movement was whether Palestine was essential to a Jewish state. A majority of the delegates to the 1903 congress felt that it was essential and rejected the British offer of a homeland in Uganda. The opposition, the Territorialists led by Israel Zangwill, withdrew on the grounds that an immediate refuge for persecuted Jews was needed. Within the Zionist movement a broad range of perspectives developed, ranging from a synthesis of nationalism with traditional Jewish Orthodoxy (in the Mizrahi movement, founded 1902) to various combinations of Zionism with utopian and Marxist socialism.
The Balfour Declaration and Settlement in Palestine
After Herzl’s death, the Zionist movement came under the leadership of Chaim Weizmann, who sought to reconcile the practical wing of the movement, which sought to further Jewish settlement in Palestine, and its political wing, which stressed the establishment of a Jewish state. Weizmann obtained few concessions from the Turkish sultan, who ruled Palestine; however, in 1917, Great Britain, then at war with Turkey, issued the Balfour Declaration (see Balfour, Arthur James), which promised to help establish a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. Great Britain was given a mandate of Palestine in 1920 by the League of Nations, in part to implement the Balfour Declaration.
Jewish colonization vastly increased in the early years of the mandate (see Palestine for the period up to 1948), but soon the British limited their interpretation of the declaration in the face of Arab pressure. There were disputes in the Zionist movement on how to counter the British position. The right-wing Revisionists, led by Vladimir Jabotinsky, favored large-scale immigration to Palestine to force the creation of a Jewish state. The most conciliatory faction was the General Zionists (representing the original national organizations), who generally remained friendly to Great Britain.
Since the Holocaust and Founding of Israel
After World War II the Zionist movement intensified its activities. The sufferings of the European Jews at the hands of the Germans demanded the opening of a refuge; the stiffening opposition of the Arabs increased the urgency. At this time the World Zionist Congress was divided, the Revisionists demanding all Palestine and the General Zionists reluctantly accepting the United Nations plan to partition Palestine (see Israel). After the Jewish state was proclaimed (May 14, 1948), the Zionist movement was forced to reevaluate its goals.
Against those who argued that the simple expression of support for Israel was sufficient for affiliation, the movement’s 1968 Jerusalem Program defined the goal of personal migration to Israel as a requirement for membership. However, most Jews in the United States and other Western democracies seemed content to support the Zionist movement as a means of supporting Israel, without any personal commitment to living there. The Zionist movement today facilitates migration to Israel and supports Jewish cultural and educational activities in the diaspora.
Bibliography
See C. Weizmann, Trial and Error (1949, repr. 1972); I. Cohen, A Short History of Zionism (1951); B. Halpern, The Idea of the Jewish State (2d ed. 1969); W. Laqueur, A History of Zionism (1972); S. Avineri, The Making of Modern Zionism (1984); D. Vital, The Origins of Zionism (1980), Zionism: The Formative Years (1982), and Zionism: The Crucial Phase (1987); B. Morris, Righteous Victims (rev. ed. 2001).
The Columbia Encyclopedia. Copyright © 2001-08 Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
Man, are you stupid. The point remains the same — the British answer to Eastern European pogroms wasn’t to take in Jews, it was to ship them elsewhere. The Zionist movement was already underway, and it had its hand in the final product, too.
Really, MJ, nobody is going to take you seriously, because you’re constitutionally incapable of looking at this in an unbiased way.
Your relatives are insecure, so that justifies blockading Gaza? I shouldn’t be surprised — since you’re an ass, you obviously have no heart.
#41 MJ….where is that Palestinan state guaranteed from 1947. Twenty years ago, the PLO agreed that Israel should be a state and Palestine should have a separate State….it has never happened. Israel is the only nation in the world with undeclared borders. Those who say that Hamas is delivering rockets should be watching a little teevee…as they actually show the Palestinans with their faces covered shoving a white powder into a primitive missile. They dont have the technology to have a GPS to target anyone, they just send them up, cuz thats all they got. Israel on the other hand, especially since 911 have delivered high technology weapons, GPS guided missiles against specific targets. Their targets have been schools, hospitals, mosques, police stations and other infrastructure. There is no place for a human being too hide in Gaza…its too small and overcrowded…that is the worst of collective punishment. CNN reported tonight there is no blood, needles or other medical supplies and that hospitals will collapse under the strain. What kind of government would attack schools and hospitals…if not to finish them off. Even the wounded are attacked, ambulances are out of fuel…people have nothing to eat…imagine that scenario….regardless of the politics. No human being should have to live under those desperate conditions.
Delacrat – and you’re Native American? If not, your homeland is somewhere else.
Geezer, I have no heart? You have no soul.
MJ: my family is native american, will you leave now.
MJ,
I was born here, so the US is my homeland.
Why is it not yours?
Yes, MJ, we know the history — we just disagree with you. And nothing you type — nothing, ever — will justify Europeans giving world Jewry a land that wasn’t theirs to give. Acknowledge that and the rest comes into much clearer focus.
There’s nothing anti-Semitic about it. Not that you’re a Semite anyway, but still. Get over yourself and your chosen people, and try to see this as those of us without roots in either the Middle East of the Jewish religion do — an unfortunate situation that’s only made worse by the American tendency to back Israel no matter what.
MJ: The Jews left the Middle East many, many centuries before they began returning in the 19th. Your definition of “homeland” is incredibly boorish. If you have any European genetic makeup — and, despite your silly definition of Semitic, I’m guessing you do — then your ultimate “homeland,” as best as we can tell, is a lot further East than Israel. And the “native Americans” you speak of actually migrated here from Asia, so this is, by your definition, nobody’s homeland.
For that matter, as humans, all of us should claim Africa as our “homeland.”
Geezer: After WW2 neither England nor the US would take them in. Never quite understood why? You get the complete history on youtube, including the timeline. The Gazans were those refugees who were burned out and forced out of their homes, they ran to the Gaza and other refugee camps where they have remained ever since. Some say that the Mossad helped set up Hamas to go against the PLO and Arafat. Arafat and the PLO were so corrupt it was Hamas who delivered whatever services the Gazans had, and when the Israelies and the US asked for elections they never dreamed the Gazans would vote for Hamas. Israel under the zionist leadership now wants “regime change”, a little plan they got from Bush and the pre emptive strike on Iraq.
The intent of the zionists from day one was two divide the palestinian state in to two separate regions to better be able to control them What they have created in the name of God is a dispicable ghetto similar to the Warsaw ghetto that imprisoned the jews in world war two.
1.5 million human beings crammed into an area half the size of new castle county, with a 35% unemployment rate and a total dependency on the zionists for food water and electricity and you wonder why they misbehave. Treat people like they are savages and savages they shall become.
Be always aware of the difference between a Jew and a zionist. There are Zionists who were recently forced from their homes in gaza who would gladly love to see all this lead to a bloody conflict that would give them back all of the gaza strip.
Oh, by the way, I agree about not having a soul. I don’t believe in Yahweh.
Liz: You go, girl. I’ll take your back on this one.
To answer your question, I believe it was anti-Jewish prejudice. Just as northerners in the 1830s U.S. hated slavery but hated blacks just as much, the western democracies hated the pogroms but hated Jews just as much.
MJ: the zionist movement began in late 1800’s. It was created by a reporter named Hertzel. The second head was an Atheist. It was never about religion with them.It was about “colonization”, they believe that they are smarter than everyone and therefore have the ability to take anything they can from those they considered “stupid dogs”. In fact, Begin called them “two legged animals”. All over Gaza and the West bank are handwritten signs by the zionists calling them dogs and animals. Sounds a lot like the southern plantation owners who believed blacks were incapable of being educated, or of human thought. Zionists had to dehumanize the Palestinans so they could easily kill, maim, and brutalize them. Today I received an email from Jewish voices for Peace re: the young people who are refusing to kill Palestinans, and the Israelie government is locking them up…its mandatory you serve no matter what your personal convictions. There is hope in the young Jewish population, but unfortunately, the young Palestinans are learning at a very young age how to hate, despise and their memories will not be easily changed.
Liz, Geezer, et al, just admit it. You don’t like Jews because (a) we’re rich; (b) we’re smart; (c) we’re different; (d) we killed your “lord.” Once you look into the mirror and admit your hatred for all things Jewish, then we might be able to move on and have a legitimate debate. But until you do that, this is a hopeless cause.
BTW, the last time I voted in an Israeli election, I voted for Hadash.
Liz, the movement was started by Theodore Herzl, not Hertzel.
Geezer: not many are willing to speak out for fear of the backlash from the zionist movement. I for one will never back down. I just wonder why the Pacem movement who know damned well we are speaking the truth….arent speaking the truth. They talk behind closed doors, they bring in speakers but they will not put themselves out here on the blogs even as anon…that in my view is pure cowardice and the main reason why so many people are so uneducated on the issue. Thanks for taking my back! Wish I could get Professor Khan on here to debate with the MJ’s of the world…he is awesome with his knowledge of history. Too bad we can’t get him on WDEL…
Oh MJ…..so you do know about zionism…are you not contradicting yourself…and do you know the name of the athiest who followed him…
Liz, go read post #53
Shoe Thrower: right on…the real deal here is the fact that John Bolton (UN Ambassdor) bush appointee~~ who said, today the problems in Gaza will lead to war with Iran. We have already taken out Iraq (one of the enemies of Israel) and Iran is the next one, they would like to involve the US in….where is Obama and diplomacy, January 21 cant come fast enough.
“Liz, Geezer, et al, just admit it. You don’t like Jews because (a) we’re rich; (b) we’re smart; (c) we’re different; (d) we killed your “lord.””
-MJ
“anti-semitism” is always the last refuge of a zionist.
or is it the first ?
yeah and so….they are still demanding “ALL” of Palestine…they have been killing, burning, and stealing more and more land since 1948….proving that the zionists who believe in colonization will never be satisfied until all the Palestinans are dead…or pushed into the sea….so who are the barbarians?
delacrat…screw you. I have no problem with Jews…my grandsons and son in law are jews…they are not zionists. My best friends are Jews and they are not zionists. They are involved with the Jewish Voices for Peace…so come up with a better debate than that crap.
If you want to know how Jews really feel….go to the Market Watch blog…where Jews are standing with us peacemakers.
I often wonder if a goup of native americans suddenly decided it was time to resettle the ancient land of the leni- lenape indians and delaware being that site was subjected to the inconvinence of getting out of their way, how would we react. would we just accept it and go on with our lives by moving to another state, some would no doubt, but I`m sure others would defy the change and be branded as terroists.
Albert Einstein, one of the great jewish minds of the 20th century rejected zionism at first, but reluctantly agreed with the stipulation that the people of palistine be treated with kindness and the utmost respect, the situation in gaza displays none of this.
MJ: I don’t have a “Lord.” The so-called Golden Rule is humanistic, and requires no supernatural being to recommend it. You should try it some time.
If you’re referring to Jesus, the New Testament’s anti-Semitism (remember, back then all Jews actually WERE Semites) is traced by most who study it (Christians included) to the internecine battles among early Jewish vs. Gentile Christians. If he really had been killed by the Jews, he would have been stoned to death. Crucifixion was a Roman form of execution.
I don’t hate Jewish people, though of course I have no way to prove that to you. I’m very impressed by your victimization routine, though.
By the way, most of what you have written here belies your assertion that all Jews are smart.
Liz,
I have no problem with Jews either.
I have a problem with zionists using anti-semitism as a smokescreen to avoid debating the issues on their merits.
If zionists were really smart, they would have learned a great lesson in their pre-emptive strike on Lebanon using cluster bombs (banned by the UN), and continue to kill Lebanese children.
I refuse to use the word Jews here to describe what the zionists are doing! My friends at Jewish voices for Peace do not align themselves with zionism, they oppose it. The real Jews are not responsible for what the zionists are doing in their name like I as an american do not condone what my government is doing around the world in my name.
Oh, I wish I could continue, but my partner and I have late dinner reservations for New Year’s Eve. Guess I need to get my jackboots on so this running-dog, imperialist can put them on the throat of the underclass.
Sorry delacrat…glad you cleared that up. Using the word anti semitic is supposed to “shut up” the opposition…its so 1980’s.
MJ, there’s always tomorrow..the issue is not going away..education has just begun.
Liz – The “real Jews?” As opposed to what, fake Jews? Now that is true anti-Semitism. I guess you also make a distinction between blacks and n@@@@@s, latinos and sp@@s, etc.
Liz: Delacrat was quoting MJ there. He (or she) agrees with you, not MJ.
MJ, nobody denies the existence of anti-Jewish bigotry in the world in general or the Middle East in particular. But you do neither yourself nor your position any favors by invoking it simply because some people disagree with your belligerence.
Just as thinking Al Sharpton is a self-aggrandizing phony doesn’t make a person racist, thinking Israeli policy towards the Arab world is self-defeating does not make one anti-Jewish — or, in the shorthand we incorrectly use, anti-Semitic (remember, please, that Arabs are Semites, too).
Speaking as a stupid sack of shit, enjoy your night out. Would you be insulted if I said “mazel tov”?
Shoe thrower…as you know they have killed the 98% of the natives…thats the “blue coat” solution to colonization…the “blue coats” just moved to Israel under the zionists.
Real Jews like those who have and believe in the Jewish faith…not the zionist a philosophy of rascism and colonialization.
Geezer, mazel tov is nice. I wish everyone here a Shana Tova – a good year.
MJ ,
Enjoy your night out,
while the people of Gaza are wondering if they will live to see the new year.
I will, delacrat, I will.
Jewish Voices for Peace are consistently speaking about the anti-Jewish bigotry that will come as result of the Gaza mess. Many who don’t know the difference between the faith and zionism…will simply blame all Jews…and that would be horrible. Bin Laden stole the Koran and turned the world against all Muslims. Christian evangelicals stole Christianity and made it dominionism, and zionism is stealing the the image of being Jewish.
All jews should become aware, the world is changing, power is shifting away from the United States as our wealth evaporates, in the void will rise compleatly sectarian nations that will not tolerate actions that evoke the name of God for justification. Jews who are sincere about preserving the state of Israel must wrest back power from the zionist extremists who now are in power. the chinese condemnation of the attacks on gaza should be a warning, we in the U. S. are becoming more and more dependent on china financially as our economy melts down. Our policy towards the jewish state may be changing, and from comments all over the web in the past few days public opinion is most definitely turning againt the Zionists.
MJ,
To party while people are dying…
Your sense of taste is remarkable.
This just in. Mental Health hospital has been hit, unknown casualities. No food, no medicine at hospitals. Libya delivered 10 ambulances as many have been destroyed. Israelie soldiers dancing on the border waiting to go on Friday morning with a ground invasion….this should finish off any survivors in Gaza.
No one can say what Israels new aggression will unleash, but one can determine likely outcomes. The attack on Gaza will not destroy Hamas, even if Israel kills every person who voted for them. The resistance to the occupation will strengthen throughout the region. The Gaza attacks will weaken all those moderates who were betting heavily on a real peace process. Peace Process has now been blown to bits.
George Bush armed the Israelies to the teeth and this attack was planned for more than 6 months. Abbas knew of the attack the date and time. He is now considered a puppet of the zionists and the US, by Gazans, the West Bankers and muslims throughout the middle east.
Obama has now been left with an even greater problem on his plate….thanks to 8 years of no real peace negiotiations by the Bush regime.
Liz,
Sounds like Fallujah, Deir Yassin, Sabra and Shatilla all over again.
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney was a passenger on a ship bringing humanitarian supplies to Gaza. The ship was rammed three times by the israel navy. If Obama, biden or our other 2 “representives” in congress had a fraction of her courage, none of this would be happening.
delacrat how right you are. She has a youtube out today asking Obama to say “something”. the corporate media has been so biased on their consistent support of Israel…that they had to admit the Dignity ship was shot at, and rammed three times..because one of their own CNN reporters was on board. She also mentioned that it is time the real story about who bombed the USS Cole be investigated. You may know that our sailors on that ship have been saying for years it was the Israelies who bombed the ship, and they knew it was an american ship when they did it.
Every once in awhile a Cole survivor will come on Cspan and speak about “why no one will investigate the fact that it was known by the Captain and the US government that it was Israel who bombed the ship and killed many of our sailors.
Liz,
Cynthia said the USS Liberty, not the Cole.
It is well established that the Israeli’s attacked the USS Liberty during the ’67 war; the official line is that the IDF mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian vessel.
One must understand that the IDF can’t distinguish between the Egyptian flag and an a US flag to believe that though.
Much as I would like to continue … I have to call it a night.
Cynthia is asking for her colleges (how do you spell that? ) in Congress to pressure Israel to stop this. Hope you’ll consider dropping a e-mail to your favorite congress critters to back her up.
peace & h n y
delacrat
I have adopted a “Plague on both your houses” attitude on this subject.
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today’s population, that is more than $5,700 per person….. I am just thinking, the Salvation Army in Wilmington could use some of that….
Happy New Year !
Sorry delacrat…my mistake…getting all those ships mixed up. Here’s the latest I got. A Palestinan mother just entered a morgue and found all three of her children piled up on top of each other.
Calling it a night too…Happy New Year!
“Israeli soldiers dancing on the border waiting to go in….” – Liz.
What were they doing? The foxtrot or the turkey in the square? And quoting twice disgraced FORMER congresswoman Cynthia McKinney as a source is like going to Rod Blagojevich for job hunting advice. McKinney exaggerates everything she says, just get get her mug on TV. Not a good source of information.
McKinney’s a nut, which means she’s in perfect company with her supporters here.
Frieda,
Equating the lessor violence of the victim with the major violence of the perpetrator, is to side with the perpetrator.
How like an anti-semite to respond with genetics lessons and parsing the phrase when called out as an anti-semite.
A Palestinan mother just entered a morgue and found all three of her children…
The dirty cowards are hiding behind their women and children in the middle of a war:
AP: Hamas says one of its top figures has been killed in an Israeli airstrike…Hamas identified the dead man as Nizar Rayyan, who had close ties to the group’s military wing. Medics says seven people were killed in the airstrike on Rayyan’s house Thursday.
How like an ignorant fool to fall back on bullshitting, with no real argument to advance. If you don’t understand the material, anon, better to keep your fingers still than to reveal yourself as the ass you are.
Pretty funny to hear someone call “coward” from the safety of the name “anon.” Pussy.
The happy ending might well be the elimination of the Mad Mullahs in Iran. What dog do they have in this fight other than making mischief.
Israel is a threat to some in the region. A nation with true pluralim may be a threat to ‘presidents for life’. The example of a nation that has little in the way of natural resources being prosperous may make those who happened to win a geological lottery with tickets purchased by others should cause some introspection.
One not need be a 10o% apologist for everything that Israel does (a friend got his Purple Heart on the Liberty) but geopolitics (like the local variant) is the art of the possible.
Hamas and the Iranian power structure needs to be extirpated, preferably from within.
We have too many ‘freedom’ fighters cowering behind women and children.
MJ and the other inhumane people here. McKinney was accompanied by doctors and surgeons and 3 tons of medical supplies..get some facts before speaking.
To Mr; Downs: are you supporting mass murder and genocide on an entire people (Iran). If not for Israels thousands of nukes, the third largest military in the world, armed with weapons deemed international warcrimes to use..(which they did in Lebanaon and now in Gaza), the arabs/muslims surrounding them wouldnt be trying to get nukes…thats truly self defense. Why won’t Israel permit the IAEA in to see how many nukes they have? Even North Korea has permitted that.
A mother cowering behind her dead children a freedom fighter? Have you lost your mind in your blind delusions.
Jason and Geek: I sent you the video of the CNN reporter and Mckiney…why dont you post them for the zealots like MJ.
Anon: dirty cowards? starving people standing on top of each other are cowards. If you were being shelled with horrendous weapons would you leave your wife/children and go somewhere else…do you have any common sense at all. There is no where to run, and no where to hide. get a grip.
Delecrat: Re the Liberty…the survivoring sailors who were on the ship state otherwise. They say the Israelies knew it was an american ship and were talking back and forth before the attack. The Commander said “there was no question they knew we were an american ship, they attacked without provocation”. Wasnt it Lyndon Johnson who covered that incident up?
Here ya go. Wikipedia: USS Liberty Memorial. The USS Liberty was brutally and suddenly attacked in international waters by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, killing 34 and wounding 175. The Israelie attack has never been investigated.
Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story to the american media. google and check out for yourself.
Why would a US President keep such a horrific act and attack on our sailors a secret?
How does the creation of Jordon by these 1948 mandates and the expulsion of the PLO by King Hussien play into all of this
Israelies bombed the power plant last night. Now there is no electric at all. Previously they permitted power 2 hours a day (if you could afford it). The Sewage plants in November were shut off as sewage was knee deep in the streets. Thinking the collective punishment now will result in: if we cant kill them outright, or starve them to death, we can permit chlorea and other diseases to finish them off…remember the majority of people are under 18.
Here is my email address, if you want the information I have, will be glad to add your name. elzbthalln@aol.com.
andy: its very complex. google: king hussein + PLO and read the sordid mess.
The UN special “rapporteur” for Human Rghts in occupied Palestianan territorties, former Princeton Law Prof, Richard Falk, has labeled what Israel is doing to l.5 million people “crimes against humanity”. Falk who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of Gazans, as a flagrant and massive violation of international law as laid down in Art. 33 of the Fourth Geneva Conventions. He has asked the International Criminal Court to investigate and determine whethere “civilian Israelies leaders” and military commanders responsible should not be tried in the International Court, indicted and proscecuted under international law.
Congressman Dennis Kucinch has also called for immediate investigations.
It is not collective punishment. Hamas has brought tragedy to Gaza through its own actions and intransigence. Hamas has political control and can end the “punishment” if it wishes.
Nizar Rayan was in his home with his two wives and children, knowing he had made himself a target. He of all people knew better, and no doubt chose to “martyr” his family as a sick PR victory which I will not grant him.
Nice work Geez… if you can’t address the content, attack the anonymity…. bankrupt.
Liz,
So now I’m an inhumane zealot? Well, I guess that just makes you an ignorant slut (paraphrasing Dan Akroyd). You really are showing your total ignorance on everything that has to do with this subject. I’ll bet you where a kafiya and scream out for the rights of the downtrodden from the safety and warmth of your million dollar condo is Greenville.
Hahaha! million dollar condo in Greenville. Anyone who knows me is laughing out loud in your ignorant face. MJ: as my Jewish Voices for Peace say…you cannot discuss Israel/Zionism with a zionist. Its like debating an uneducated neo con evangelical. But here is a little something from a reporter at the Jerusalem Post you might be interested in.
Concientious Israelies asknowledge Hassam rockets rationale is fradulent. Jersaleum Post writer Larry Derfner noted: “we dont want to see how people in Gaza live, we block it out of our minds, its natural for a society at war, but also keeps the war going longer if we don’t come to realize Gaza is getting the worst of it”.
“The Palestinan kassam rockets have caused very, very few death or serious wounds. By contrast, Israel has terrorized l.5 million Gazans, locked them inside very narror borders, throttled their economy, and killed and wounded thousands of them.
This is crazy! Israel is the super power in the mideast. At any point during the past decades Israel could have had peace, by giving Palestinans the right to their own unitary, soverign land, something the Israelies continue to resist tooth and nail.
Now MJ, that is a Jew residing in Israel writing for the JPost. Why do you believe your information is more factual than this reporter and the thousands of Jews who do not support the zionist government and what it is doing?
Anon: tell that to the United Nations International Court on war crimes. Cuz thats where this is all headed…just like the Nuremberg trials. If those young dancing soldiers (9000) of them massed on the border ready for the “duck slaughter” tomorrow morning follow those civilian leaders and military commanders to commit outright genocide…watch the middle east go up in flames and watch homeland security in this country go nuts.
Liz, or should I call you asshole, it’s Israelis, not Israelies. Chaim Weizman, who suceeded Theodor Herzl, was not an atheist. Kucinich is just as whacked out as McKinney, but is a bit more politically savvy (hell, he got a wife while running for President). Protecting your country from terrorism is not a war crime, especially when the terrorists are being armed by China, North Korea, Iran and Russia. You really should brush up on your “facts” before opening your mouth or tapping your keyboard – you’ll spare us your socialist-worker inspired bullshit.
MJ: you lack of facts is so overwhelming there is no discussion.
Anon: I have a list of the dead..the person Nizar Rayan…is not on it. Got a source! You see I have the list updated every morning. Either you made that story up…or you need a source.
MJ: sorry you are wrong again. The second person in charge of the zionists was Max Nordau a devout athiest. better do that google…your looking more ridiculous with every stroke on the keyboard!
Liz, there is no discussion because you’re fullof shit and do not know what you’re talking about on this subject. You’ve shown that in all of your posts. You really are an ignorant slut.
Zionism is a darwinist theory MJ. The right to colonize undeveloped nations, take the land steal the resources, while dehumanizing the people is a zionist thought process. It is not a religion but a philosophy in vogue in the late 1800’s. Judaism is a divine religion in opposition to zionism.
How disrepectful…calling me a slut? Slut is a word with sexual ramifications.You loose the debate because you have no knowledge…perhaps you did that little google and realize how full of crap you truly are.
I referred to you an ‘inhumane” because you are aware of the fact that the majority of Gazans are under the age of 18…they are babies in my book. If you think their slaughter is humane…thats on your concience not mine.
MJ: are you aware that Israel armed apartheid south africa…to kill blacks…one apartheid nation supporting another.
And your source for your South Africa tripe is what? Your imagination?
History! Guess you missed the expose when countries were calling for divestment of South Africa. See you really are no challenge cuz you have no freaking history.
Gordon Brown has called for an immediate ceasefire. France has tried to convince the Israelies to accept a truce to permit humanitarian aid in..Israel refuses. Israel has permitted 100 trucks into Gaza in last 2 days, after months of a blockade of food, med, fuel. The UN Security Council met last night demanding a ceasefire, and says the humanitarian relief needed is alarming. Hamas says it will agree to a ceasefire only if Israel lifts the economic and humanitarian blockades
Israel poised on border with an additional 9000 soldiers ready to go into Gaza in the early am.
Anon: Nizar Rayyan’s name just came up on the dead list. He didnt have two wives…he did have a wife and six children all dead, with 30 others wounded.
Liz,
Don’t let words and name-calling get in the way of your work for peace. Dehumanization is always their first and last steps. Stay peaceful in your battle and always remember that there is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
“First they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Ghandi.
Thanks for your kind words. Wishing the rest of you who know the truth would speak up.
MJ: Israelie Foreign Policy by Jane Hunter 1987. (google it).
Israelies ties to South Africa are especially disturbing. Israel has been castigated for its arms sales to South Africa, because of the decades long embargo of arm shipments to South Africa…..because of the unsurpassed criminality of the white regime and its Israelie supplied weapons…to be used on blacks in SA.
If you continue to challenge me…go for it…but please google or get some information before you make your comments.
History, Liz? Who’s history? Yours? You don’t cite history, just political, socialist-worker inspired propaganda. That’s not history, it’s bullshit. And you’re so full of your bullshit your eyes are brown.
And for once and for all, asshole, it’s Israeli, there is no “e” at the end, either singular or plural.
Would love to have MJ and Liz on the air with me next week!
Mike, you ignorant slut!
delacrat , you say
Equating the lessor violence of the victim with the major violence of the perpetrator, is to side with the perpetrator.
No, my interest in the region is of a different nature
1981 Israel bombed and destroyed Baghdads nuclear reactor ( No reprimand from the international Community that I recall)
And Israel has refused to rule out pre-emptive military action against Iran along the lines of its 1981 air strike against an atomic reactor in Iraq … I have been watching DIMONA in the Negev desert for a long time. Long before they admitted they had a nuclear bomb factory. I have followed the trials of Mordechai Vanunu
The Iraq reactor had not gone critical, therefore no fallout. The Iran reactors are under ground, since the need for bunker busters .These weapons have the ability to penetrate steel reinforced concrete due to the addition
of depleted uranium (DU). Now DU has a half-life of almost 5 Billion years , do we really need to spread more of that stuff around ? Do we really have to come THAT close to WW3 (Since we are Isreals Siamese twins if they start)
Am just looking for Sanity here, until then I will continue to say “a plague on both your houses. ”
And using this marelous tool which enables us to exchange views and the opportunity to learn to call each other nasty names makes me sad.
Mike, when? I need to check my schedule (I have to make an appearance in my office in DC next week).
MJ: I have consistently told you to google the facts. You refuse for fear of finding out how wrong you are. Its on you. You want to attack me on spelling go ahead..am a fast typist and am doing a multiple tasks.
“Jerusalem Post”. The Bush adminstration has supported the Israelie Blitz that has killed hundreds, many small children. In a horrible echo of the War on Iraq, the Jeru Post recorded that…”the Israelie Air force’s goal was to shock and awe Hamas with a blow the likes of which has not been seen in Gaza since the territory was conquered by Israel in 1967. To “shock and awe” is to inspire fear by terror, indiscriminate killing, mass destruction of a peoples basic needs.
The Tel-Aviv-Washington symbiosis could not be clearer. What a meeting of the minds”.
JP also reports, “this is a deliberate targeting of civilians. It is malicious rubbish to try to claim civilian deaths could be avoided or civilian injuries treated. The IRC (International Red Cross) has been unable to deliver basic medications, bandages, needles for over one month. 105 drugs, 230 basic medical needs have been out of stock, so even the casualities cannot be treated.
40 children killed on saturday!
Mike: MJ has no facts…how can this person debate facts when what he/she posits as fact can be easily factchecked by google. Give me somebody who has some real knowledge.
MJ: have posted my email address…you have my full name, not in hiding. I have been on this stuff since 1976….so go for it. Have all the documents from newspapers, tv, google, and all those wonderful worldwide organizations (jewish) to back me up..what do you have besides a one sided, biased opinion?
To Al. hoping you can get Professor on your show, and let us all know when so MJ can tune in and get some history! Am sure your listeners would love to hear from him.
MJ: I purposely spell Israelie…Israel – lie.
So surely you won’t mind if we call you “Liez”
Mike, I will also need to check and get clearance from my agency (because of the sensitive nature of my position).
Liz, please at least admit that you are an anti-Semite.
MJ: when you use that word against someone who has the opposition position of you on this controversial issue…sorry you loose you have no solid arguments and resort to name calling. Calling me antisemite is lowest form of debate.
I was waiting for you so become so unnerved with the facts in your face you would resort to the lowest form of debate. You have done that, now you need to get educated or at the very least, let that little google thingy help you with some real facts.
Liz, I do admire your tenacity, you keep telling these people to check the facts. Either they are not as computer savvy as you think or they have a need to show off with stupidity and name calling.
Use Google :
Israel’s attack on Iraq’s reactor, Israel’s attack an Syria, DIMONA Israel’s nuclear site, Mordichai Vanunu’s punishment for telling the truth…on and on it goes . ..
If the Palestinians would stop with their rocket attacks, which sure as hell is not getting them anywhere then where would the Israeli’s go with their frustration and their desire to get us into WW3
Nothing seems to help, they keep attacking foreign countries without reprisal.. ….
Yet Iran is a signatory to he Non Porliferation Treaty and Israel is NOT…strange
Oh well, when all else fails, just call somebody a slut or a liar
Frieda: as John Bolton UN stated two days, Iran must be the next target….the bigger picture is about to unfold. There is a reason the Bush regime violated the Military Commissions Act and gave Israel those bunker busters, and we know that Israel/US has been blaming Iran for everything, even though the IAEA is there and reports otherwise, just like the did in Iraq when Bush/Cheney claimed Iraq has weapons of mass destruction….which all turned out to be false. Meanwhile Israel has hundreds of nukes and the IAEA is not permitted in …double standard?
anon: you can call me anything you like…you know that ole adage…sticks and stones.if all you got is name calling…that means you have nothing to add…demonization will get you know where with me. Next.
got a name anon. why do you hide?
Israel defies peacemakers proposal for truce. Security Cabinent rejects EU backed peace proposal as tanks mass on Gaza border. Israel defied a formidable international concensus in favor of a ceasefire in Gaza, and will continue its fierce air attacks, preparing to step up a ground invasion.. PM Ohlmert rejected the international call for a 48 hr. truce to permit humanitarian aid into the strip. Pres. Abbas has threatened to stop all peace talks with Israel if air strikes continue.
Palestinan Health Agency reporting 400 dead, 2000 wounded. The Director of the World Food Program said, “she was furious when she learned Israel’s claims that Gaza warehouses were full of supplies”!
Tzipi Livni (candidate for PM), denies l.5 million are suffering a humanitarian crisis.
Meanwhile the middle east is heating up with fury. Reports that 7000 Iranian students are registering to fight Israel.
Escalation is the name of the game. If Israel goes in with ground forces tomorrow morning…expect the middle east to be on fire with anger.
“Homemade” rocket (probably fueled by grass, right Liez), hits an apartment building in Ashdod, approximately 30 miles away.
If the IDF commits ground forces, the only one on fire will be you, Liez. 7000 Iranian student “volunteers?” Do they not know they they don’t get 70+ virgins when they blow themselves up – all they get is dead.
MJ: they actually showed them filling the homemade bombs with white powder…no guided missile, no GPS…do you have a teevee?
Yes, MJ 7000 Iranian students are volunteering…don’t know about any virgins…but I guess they have a concern that blowing up Gaza….they are next, huh!
The point is that this mess is escalating out of control…do you think we can afford WW3…when our country is broke? Is this what Obama needs to deal with on day one?
I am concerned about a bunch of dead babies…are you.
Liz,
When the IDF kills babies, MJ smiles and goes new years eve partying.
MJ 152: are you threatening me? I hear thats what zionists do…threaten people who speak out. Is that wishful thinking on your part, or are you threatening me.
Since US corporate media isnt showing any dead baby bodies…perhaps she thinks there arent any…send your email MJ….gots tons of really gross dead baby pictures…you can get gleeful about.
I look at those dead babies and I see native american babies…they wrap the bodies papoose style.
Liez, if I were going to threaten you, I would give your email address to my cousins in Mossad. But that’s not me, I don’t make threats.
Delacrap, you are so full of yourself. You really amuse me.
LIz you mentioned the IAEA , yes you are correct again, Director General Mohamed ElBaradei has repeatedly reported that Iran is open to inspections , has not engaged in weapons production, is in compliance with the Non Proliferation Treaty. I was going to mention that but considered it beyond the understanding of these name calling “patriots”. here.
MJ
“Liez, if I were going to threaten you, I would give your email address to my cousins in Mossad. But that’s not me, I don’t make threats.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA WOULD’NT YOU JUST LOVE TO, just like the goos stepping thugs I used to know………….when intelligence fails , ahh ” I have friends in the……..
Oh God I recognize the signs
Frieda: this is truly laughable. Guess he/she thinks they are playing with some kid. Nuances don’t go unnoticed MJ. Frieda would know about the goose steppers….she was there! Just a couple of old broads with a long long memory.
Funny, you would mention Mossad..MJ…My jewish friends say that in Israel they fear them as much as we are supposed to fear the CIA, and the torture chambers created by America.
The older I get the less I have to fear…I fear only the uneducated, dimwits who would allow history to repeat itself..without speaking out with the signs of fascism all around. I fear people who have no compunction about the death of babies as part of a collective punishment mentality.
Freida, kishmir en tuchas
Hahahahahahaha MJ.NEVER
MJ; nothing to add to the conversation except kiss my booty! How revealing about your knowledge of the discussion at hand. Even goyem know that phrase.
“Nice work Geez… if you can’t address the content, attack the anonymity…. bankrupt.”
Right back atcha, asshat. You had no content. You’re just another name-caller who believes in Israel Uber Alles. Calling “anti-Semitism” when you don’t even know what a Semite is nominates you as the least qualified commenter here.
If you have anything to add beyond calling me a Jew-hater and Arabs cowards, feel free. I doubt you do.
“Protecting your country from terrorism is not a war crime”
Congratulations, MJ. You have just uttered the exact same phrase the assholes in Hamas use to justify their murderous, terroristic ways. Don’t you get it? Both sides use the same justification. That’s why the problem never gets solved, and never will get solved as long as people like you think bringing up your buddies in Mossad — people who are just as evil as those in every secret agency in every country in the world, whether you think so or not — and then claiming that you “don’t threaten people.”
You’re an asshole, Mike — a juvenile asshole.
Calling “anti-Semitism” when you don’t even know what a Semite is qualifies you as the least qualified commenter here.
I know what a Semite is, but you don’t know what anti-semitism is.
No wait – I think you do. Answering charges of anti-semitism by describing the genetic makeup of Semites is transparent sophistry.
I will admit that it is theoretically possible to be anti-Zionist or anti-Israeli without also being anti-semitic. But if it behaves the same way, what’s the difference really? at some point a rose is a rose is a rose.
Why is it being “anti-Israel” if you disagree with the way its government is treating its Palestinian problem? If I disagreed with the Bush administration, which I did, that means I hate Americans? If you want to talk about sophistry, look in the mirror, pal.
Charges of anti-Semitism deserve no answer at all. They’re the mark of people without a true argument to make. The only bias I’ve seen in this entire thread came from the fingers of MJ, who insisted that Jews are smarter, richer, etc. than everyone else. But I’m the one who’s biased because I don’t think Israel has the right to kill people indiscriminately? Fuck off.
I bring the point up because people like you love to toss around “anti-Semitic” without understanding that Arabs and non-Ashkenazi Jews ARE THE SAME DAMN PEOPLE! To those of us who are neither, it’s very tempting to curse both your houses. Especially when assholes throw “Jew-hater” — go ahead, just say it, that’s what you mean by the inaccurate “anti-Semite,” but you must realize how much more ridiculous it sounds — at anyone who dares disagree with them.
And here’s the real problem for you and those of your ilk — you know how weak the Israeli case really is. The land wasn’t England’s to give. Any unbiased person can see the Arabs got the short end of that stick. The pro-Israel case rests entirely on the abhorrent behavior of the Arabs ever since — but the second wrong doesn’t negate the original one. The fact that the original mistake was the western world’s, not Israel’s, isn’t really germane to the Palestinians’ situation. And the more Israel plays the oppressor, the more it becomes what it and the world loathed so much they created Israel to overcome in the first place — state-sanctioned racial superiorists.
The situation will only end if one of two things happens — Israel unilaterally withdraws from the West Bank and stops seizing land there, or an Arab Martin Luther King emerges to shame Israel into it. Just MHO. But hating Jews has nothing to do with it. To any unbiased observer, this isn’t about race or religion — it’s about land.
Geezer. thanks for your voice of sanity in here
“To any unbiased observer, this isn’t about race or religion — it’s about land.” And POWER !!!
So clearly described by Paul Findley in the book “They dared to speak out ”
However, in reference to the book I would not deny them their success in lobbying congress, as this their right .
Liez, you’re not even a goy. You don’t deserve that honor. You’re chicken shit.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Ghandi
Is this thread truly promoting peace on either side?
The “debate” broke down beginning with entries # 7 and 8. It was all downhill from there.
MJ: It tends to break down quickly whenever any criticism of Israel the country is taken as criticism of Jews as people.
#7 and 8…when truth was told and MJ couldnt refute it. The conversation went downhill at #146 when you called me an anti semite. And by the way MJ, you must have me mixed up with some rich babe in Greenville…living in a Greenville condo and riding around in limos’…its a scream.
Actually Geezer & Liez, the conversation was on a very civil level until you both accused me of being (1) heartless; (2) inhumane; (3) uneducated; (4) a christian. You started with the pejoratives and name calling – I just answered it back. But you both continued, showing not only that the only thing you can add to a “debate” is ad hominem attacks, but showing your “it’s my way or the highway” purist political thought. Sort of reminds me of the old Soviet Union.
Can we at least agree it is all donviti’s fault?
Liz, you asked for facts, well here are some facts – see for yourself with this link. If this doesn’t change your mind, nothing will.
MJ wrote Actually Geezer & Liez, the conversation was on a very civil level until you both accused me of being (1) heartless; (2) inhumane; (3) uneducated; (4) a christian.
LOL, a christian. Good stuff.
mj: the comments can read and judged by others. Peacemakers will love this:
Zionists calling the operation: Operation Cast LEAD”! Haartz papers report that officers of the Army’s southern command have been given orders to move in (with ground forces). It seems inevitable the tanks will go in, and when they do all hell is going to break loose all over the mid east.
A unilateral ceasefire might win Israel some plaudits, but so far Ohlmert, and others refuse all demands from the UN for a ceasefire. Israel demands that total control of the Gaza be turned over to the PLO and Abbas, while Hamas says, Israel must stop all bombings, lift the seige and open the border for humanitarian relief. Reports are there is very little left in Gaza to be bombed.
Bottomline: each side wants the other on its knees…and the beat goes on.
anon: very funny, just happens to be one of my favorite dance tunes…and your right…At my age, ain’t never giving up!
#177. Mj you have no debate…facts were presented and you ignored them. Every “fact” you put out can easily be googled and found not factual. You have no argument but remain stuck on stubborness. If you want to know what the Jews think..you should Rabbi Lerners column today, asking that all Jews protest Israel.
MJ: Actually, I was the one who called you heartless. Said in haste, repented at leisure. I guess it illustrates how easily emotions overcome civility — and how fortunate we are not to have rockets at our disposal.
By the way, all I said initially was that your claim that we’d feel differently if we had family in Israel was no more or less true than the opposite — that you’d feel differently if you had family in Gaza. You dismissed this, for what reason I cannot fathom, as “cluelessness.” So, if you want to debate this, why is one situation not the same as the other?
Lets do a little recap of MJ’s name calling:
#25. Liz is an ignorant anti semite
31 Liz an apologist for Hamas
51. anti semite, limo liberal
68. you dont like Jews cuz, we’re rich, smart, different and killed your lord.
85. anti semite
119. condo in Greenville ignorant slut
122. asshole and socialist worker, bullshit.
125. full of shit, ignorant slut
135. asshole socialist propagandist, bullshitter
146. anti semite
157. giving your email to my mossad cousins
172 you chicken shit.
These are your responses to real discussion and debate. Sorry MJ, you have exposed yourself as a no nothing apologist for war crimes.
Gee Liz, like this fact? “(T)hose so called rockets they are firing are freakin homemade.”
Um, not counting the 122 mm rockets that have been hitting Beersheba and Ashkelon? Those are Russian-built, or even more likely Iranian, and have a range of 20-30 kilometers, depending on the warhead. The homemade Qassams you prefer to focus on are toys by comparison. (The news reports I’ve seen refer to them as “Grad” missiles – Russian word for “hail” – but that name actually refers to the truck mounted launcher, not the missiles.)
Not to mention, the reason they are making homemade rockets is because of the international blockade, which has prevented them from getting more lethal weapons in greater quantities.
And to be fair, if MJ really knew anything about the “Mossad” he’d have said Aliya Bet, so as not to confuse it with Shin Bet, which is counterintelligence.
DL: why do you permit MJ to use these words in relation to a discussion, when you banned Mike for talking about the amendments. Why are your voices quiet on this topic? Just sayin.
Liz, so it’s OK for you to call people inhumane, uneducated, warmongerers, no-nothings, joyful at the death of “innocents,” etc, but when you’re called out on your comments, OMG – ban the person. How typical of your absolutist thinking.
Liz – We reserve the right to stay quiet when we feel it is in our personal best interest. I didn’t think that I could add anything to this discussion.
As I understand it, Mike W was banned for his incessant and off-topic comments over a long period of time, not discussion of the second amendment.
LG, nice of you to watch this thread. I’ve been staying away as getting in the debate about Israel and Palestinians is almost as dangerous as getting between two gay men arguing over Don Viti.
Wait – Don Viti is gay? Or do I need a six pack? LOL
You’ll need the 6-pack. Might even need a 12-pack (6 for you).
Liz,
Somebody needs to be the grown-up in this thread. I recommend you be that person.
MJ: What am I, chopped liver? Do you agree or not that a person with relatives in Gaza would feel emotions the mirror image of yours?
Anonone: As an analogy to your comment, I would say some country needs to be the grownup in the Middle East. I recommend the U.S. be that country.
I am trying through my frustration. Feel free to jump dont leave me hanging out…I know that many of you know the truth and now is the time to come to the aid of this country. 5 Billion this year alone could do a lot of good work here.
MJ: go over this entire thread…where did I call you names. Being uneducated on the topic is not name calling its an obvious fact. Inhumane in response to some of your other diatribe. I knew they wouldnt ban you, but I hoped you would get the message, name calling is not a response to an issue.
Absolutist..on the contrary…just trying to show there are two or more sides to this controversial topic. Nothing is absolute.
Liz, the source of your frustration is knowing deep down that you’re shilling for a gang of murderous thugs, but your pride won’t let you admit it out loud. Otherwise you’d concede when your facts are incorrect – see comment #185.
So anon, its okay with you if one side has the worst weapons of mass destruction on the planet including an unknown nuclear arsenal, but the other side should fight with homemade ones and rocks…! Perhaps we should give the Palestinans the same amount that we give Israel….would that be better. Absolutely not…its time we ended this problem by giving the Palestinans their soverign state they were promised in 1948. End the occupation and end Israel’s brutal and massive “collective punishment” tactics. The UN should force Israel to open up its doors to receive the IAEA just like they did North Korea. President Kennedy was furious when he discovered that Israel had the bomb….and yet no president since has tried to get them to sign onto the Nuclear Profileration Treaty. Why the double standard? I for one want no nation to have nuclear weapons it assures our mutual destruction. Everyone with a brain should be pushing for a nuclear free world. All we need is one nut to use it…and poof goes the magic dragon.
Rex, CNN showed the Palestinans stuffing their small homemade rockets with white powder the other day. They have repeated that thread several times. Israel has often made the statements that Iran is doing this or that, but tell me just how is Iran, Russia or any other nation able to get them into Gaza…when they can’t even get food and medicine in.
America Forces Press Services. Over 100 US/European commanded soldiers/airmen/marines deployed to Israel to set up an early warning radar systm. AF Colonel John Dorrian confirmed the Eucom team is operating on Israelie AF bases. Army/Navy Transportable Radar system was confirmed by Secretary Gates and signed off on September, 08.
The system enables the Israelies to track long/short range missiles to enhance the Israelie military system.
My question: this was done by Bush/Gates in September 08…how much advance did they have for the pre emptive strike on Gaza over the holidays?
Did you hear any of that on corporate media? And what early warning system was provided to Gaza?
Liz, I don’t know how specifically Hamas got the (allegedly) Iranian 122 mm rockets into Gaza, but you cannot deny that they have them. Otherwise, they would not be able to hit Beersheba, which is thirty miles away – far out of range of the homemade Qassams. According to Jane’s, they’re 2.76 metres long, so we’re not talking about something massive. What the Israelis are claiming now is that Hamas has Iranian missiles capable of reaching Dimona, where the Israeli reactor is.
History Lesson Part I:
The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, known by the Israelis predominantly as War of Independence (מלחמת העצמאות) and War of Liberation (מלחמת השחרור), and by Palestinians as the Catastrophe (Arabic: al Nakba, النكبة ), was the first in a series of wars fought between the newly declared State of Israel and its Arab neighbours in the long-running Arab-Israeli conflict.
The war commenced upon the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine in mid-May of 1948 following a previous phase of civil war in 1947–1948. The war came after Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state. The war was fought mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also on the Sinai Peninsula. The war concluded with the 1949 Armistice Agreements but it did not mark the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
PS – Liez – you can find this same info by googling 1948 Arab-Israeli War
Still no answer for me, eh, MJ? Curious…
MJ and GRex, you can keep justifying Israel’s actions from now to Ragnarok and it won’t change the fact that, just like the U.S., it is justifying carnage against innocents by the carnage against its own innocents.
The issue here isn’t who’s “right,” it’s how best to stop the violence. Are you interested in this at all, or are you just going to keep on insisting in the justice of your cause? Because the Palestinians and Arabs in general insist on the the justice of theirs, too. It doesn’t get us much of anywhere, does it?
Wow! An 18-word post elicits over 200 comments. Currently we are at 11.3 comments per word.
Geezer, there is only one side in this conflict that deliberately targets civilians, whether by suicide bombers or by unguided rockets. There is only one side that uses its own civilian population as human shields, behind which it fires those rockets. There is only one side that has as its mission statement the annihilation of an entire nation. Now, that doesn’t give their opponents carte blanche, but it certainly gives them the moral high ground. Apart from that it’s “You stole my seat!” and “Well, I didn’t see your name on it!”
I have to disagree with you, G. I don’t see a moral difference between guided missiles that kill civilians as “collateral damage” and indiscriminate missiles that kill whatever they hit. Even if there is a difference, retaliation killing is pretty low-lying high ground. The issues you cite conveniently let you back the horse I suspect you wanted to back in the first place.
Let’s put it like this: The British in the American Revolution would have said, “There’s only one side that hides among civilians. There’s only one side that fights without wearing military uniforms.” And so forth, similarly, for every conflict in history. Whether you think such claims have merit tend to depend on who you’re rooting for in the first place.
BTW, the “annihilation of a nation” does not necessitate the death of a single person. They’re objecting to the theft of their land and the existence of Israel, not the existence of Jews. If the Israelis got themselves a different homeland — I’m all in favor of giving them Texas, myself — I don’t think the Arabs would pursue them to the ends of the earth to annihilate them.
Just for fun, what do you think the reaction in Texas would be if we followed my prescription? Do you think the Texans would be OK with it, or do you think they’d fight? Keep in mind, the Texans got their start by stealing the land from Mexico with the help of the U.S. government, so they really shouldn’t complain about having to give it up now, should they?
mj: THE KEY WORD IS PARTITION. Have you ever read the documents that founded Israel? Where is the Palestinan state promised in 1948?
The fact is that Israel has never remained in the borders established in 1948. The only nation in the world without established borders. Why is that? If you look at the map in 48 and look at the map today….Israel has taken all but a few slices of the entire area. It has occupied those areas with brute force since 48. Second, Spain was offered to the european zionist seeking a homeland, and they refused Spain and what is now Uganda. They wanted their “homeland to be in the Palestinan territories” and demanded they be given those lands. Why was their a need for a “partition”, who were they partioning off?
What is now Gaza are the former refugees who ran for their lives when the european zionists arrived. All have been refused the right to return. You and your zionists friends should be very happy, if the ground invasion occurs, they will wipe out all those 18 years and younger and take the Gaza too. All of this is a Bush/Cheney/Gates Plan to attack Iran. Bolton continues to speak of it even today.
This is about the imbalance of power. One has all the weapons of mass destruction the other has nothing to fight back with. Where is the humanity in any of this? What is your solution MJ?
Geezer: geez don’t offer them Texas..they would be at war with Mexico to take even more land…its their modus operendi. It is a pretty funny scenario though…all those tall texans with their hats, guess they would forget about somebreos all of a sudden.
Well, you don’t have to wonder how Texas dealt with their native inhabitants who wanted to claim their land:
http://www2.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/indian/statehood/page2.html
The fact is that Israel has never remained in the borders established in 1948.
That’s because the Arab nations used the lands right on the other side of those borders to mass their forces to push Israel into the sea. They lost that bet and have been whining about it ever since. That action lost them the right to control those lands.
Liz: Well, there’s a town in Texas called Palestine…
and one in ohio too!
MJ: go to: ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html.
In 1947 the UN partitioned historic Palestine giving 55% to the Jewish pop. and 45% to the Palestinans. At the time of the partition the Jewish pop. was 6%.
In 1948 Israel declares “independence” on 78% of the Palestinan land, having stolen 23% after declaring the independence.
In 1967 Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine, the West Bank/Gaza, as well as portions of Syria and Egypt.
Go to the maps and see what they have stolen as of today….
“That action lost them the right to control those lands.”
In one sense, anon, I agree with you. The Arabs bet in 1947 that they could do better than accepting the UN’s decision. They have doubled down on that bet several times, and every time they have lost it, in part because of American support for Israel.
On the other hand, what have all those victories produced? What good is the land without peace?
Further, we have come a long way since the “might makes right” destruction of the native population of the Americas. The conditions in Gaza were a disgrace well before Hamas gained control there. That, not anti-Semitism, is what earns Israel scorn on the world stage. (I’m not talking about the Muslim world, where hatred of Jews abounds, but more distant countries without a dog in the fight that nevertheless condemn Israel’s actions).
I maintain, and will until someone puts forth a better argument than “Well, they started it!” that such self-righteous proclamations can be extended ad infinitum, back into pre-history. I have actually heard pro-Israel people pontificate about how “there was never a country called Palestine,” as if that mattered to the people who lost their land as a result of the UN decision in 1947. The Arabs who lived in the region were under the control of the Ottoman empire for many centuries — of course there were no individual nations there, of any name. The Arabs wanted their own independent nation there, and were told by the British they would have one (the British needed their help against the Germans at the time, WWI). What did they do to deserve the creation of Israel in what had been their territory?
By the logic of some anti-Arabs here, I suppose the Arabs should have attacked England instead of Israel. I’m sure that, had it been practical, they would have. But, again, this was a case of might making right. We can, and should, do better than that.
If you look at the number of UN resolutions against Israel they begin in 1947. You can see them all, more violations than any nation at:
http://www.divestmentproject.org.UN_resolutions.shtml.
There are many resolutions against Israel re: Gaza from the very beginning, way before Hamas was elected.
thats: http://www.divestmentproject.org.UNresolutions.shtml.
or,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/list_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and Palestine
hope that works.
G Rex – just to clarify – Shin Bet is responsible for internal security and is separate from Mossad, which is counter-terrorism and covert operations. Aliyah Bet was the name given to “illegal” immigration of Jews under the British Mandate pre-1948.
mj: THE KEY WORD IS PARTITION. Have you ever read the documents that founded Israel? Where is the Palestinan state promised in 1948?
Wasn’t the other half of the partition todays Jordon???
Andy – That was Transjordan. The western side of the Jordan River was known as Sis-Jordan. Sis-Jordan was to be Arab, however, the Jordanian monarchy took it over after the 1948 war and kept it until losing it in the Six Day War of 1967. The Jordanian monarchy also kept the Palestinian Arabs in refugee camps, refusing to grant them citizenship or any rights.
Liez – yeah, the UN has never been friendly to Israel since it 1947. Also, your link was either a bad website or something else because the page for the “divestment.org” doesn’t work.
Liez – found it through Mozilla. Sommerville, MA, population 77,000, 4 square miles. Yep, a real grass-rrots, national organization. Funny how their city symbol is someone munching a pine cone (look a little bit like Ewell Gibbons).
MJ: you say the UN has never been friendly to Israel. Are you joking. Israel more UN resolutions against it than any nation in the world. Also, the Somerville Divestment project is not what I was referring. Have to go back and check my research may have missed a number or something…but anyone can check how many resolutions there are against Israel by googling.
And the maps in 1947 and the maps today will show precisely how much land Israel has stolen from the Palestinans. That began in 1948.
MJ: why are you the only person on these blogs who appear to be on your side? Could it be that many Jews are not with you on this. We know that several Rabbis has been posting information to “protest Israel”, why have you opted to stand with them?
Liez writes: MJ: why are you the only person on these blogs who appear to be on your side? Could it be that many Jews are not with you on this. We know that several Rabbis has been posting information to “protest Israel”, why have you opted to stand with them?
It could be that there are only 3-4 people who feel like commenting, pretty simple. What rabbis? Not mine or any of the other ones I know (Orthodox, Conservative and Reform) across the country. And your last sentence didn’t make any sense.
You referred to http://www.divestmentproject.org which is headquartered in Somerville, MA. Perhaps some inhumane Zionist messed with your post.
June 2007
“These attacks by both Hamas and Fatah constitute brutal assaults on the most fundamental humanitarian principles. ”
—Sarah Leah Whitson,
Middle East director for Human Rights Watch
Any comments Liez?
Richard Falk, Chair of the UN Human Rights, these are war crimes and the civilian leaders and military commanders must be investigated, indicted and prosecuted for war crimes.
Human Rights Relief Organization: I am appalled that Israel is telling the world the warehouses in Gaza are fully stocked when trucks with basic essentials have not been permitted into Gaza since Nov. 4th.
China, Russia, and other nations calling for an immediate ceasefire and end to the bombings…Israel refuses to even stop for 48 hrs to permit humanitarian aid in.
any comments Mr. Mosely?
Rabbi Lerner for one today and I have a list of others who are calling for “all Jews, Christians and Muslims to protest these bombings”. That was today.. your Rabbi….who is it?
Jeff Halper head of the Peace Movement in Israel (ICAHD) and Neve Gordon, Chair of the Dept. of Politics and Government at Ben Gurion University~~ “where is the academia outrag!
Gordon Levy published in Haartz 12/29: “Once again Israelie response even if justified, exceed all proportion and cross every red line of humaneness, morality, international law and wisdom”.
Israel academics are condeming the american press for its one sided biased views. Press in Israel are far more critical of their government than the american corporate owned press…selling the War on Gaza, like the led the War on Iraq!
Israel refuses to even stop for 48 hrs to permit
humanitarian aid inHamas to reload.Fixed that for you.
Here is the rest of the quote from Haartz:
“The Palestinans are no more a threat to Israel than the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were a threat to the Nazi state”.
Anon: do you have any facts to report? Reload? you mean after they crawl through the rubble, pick up all those body parts laying all over the streets…while running from the rain of constant bombings…or trying to keep their families warm in homes with the windows all blown out…yet they are reloading? Fool!
Liz is an apparatchik for Hamas and Hezbollah. Plain and simple. Bet she has “I heart Lubyanka” tattooed on her arm.
MJ: no tatoos,why dont you answer some questions. Just sent a 4 min. video from a Norwegian doctor…if Jason and DL have the nerve to put it up…that explains the conditions on the ground.
Israel is using a weapon that splits bodies in half, burns..patients with 50% burns on their bodies (Falejuah) anyone. Some weapon called Dyn – radioactive. There are 30 trucks at the border with medicine that the zionists refuse to enter. Windows blown out of hospitals, no medicine, its winter and cold. No fuel for homes. Of the 2000 casualites, 40% are women and children thats l in 5, of the dead, 21% are women and children. The Doctor says, “Gaza is a prison, no place to run or hide”. Jason would you please post the video so everyone can see from a doctors point of view?
Appartchik – Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan, and the United States, and is banned in Jordan. Australia and the United Kingdom list only the military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist organization. The United States and the European Union have both implemented restrictive measures against Hamas on an international level.
Hmmm…. what’s the party line have to say about this?
Liez, I love your exaggeration. You should go into writing fiction. Oh wait, you have been for the past 4 days.
Liz – in the face of the horror you describe, why would Hamas not stop with the rockets, recognize Israel, and begin peace negotiations while the supply trucks are rolling across the border for the relief you say is so badly needed? How can you support Hamas’s refusal?
Barbara Starr: CNN Pentagon correspondent.
“thats not why the US sells weapons abroad for killing innocent civilians”, she warns~~America’s role in arming Israel’s military, killing a growing number of civiliansin Gaza is becoming problematic. The GBU 39 smart bomb Israel is using….they are smart they hit what they are aiming at, but what they are aiming at is a tiny strip of land teeming with civilians”. The State Dept. is concerned about Israel’s use of US jets and these bombs in Gaza.
The Obama campaign “avoids like the plague going on record about this issue.
Anon and Mosley: you are both so ignorant about what is going on…I have the freaking documents and send some of them to Jason and Geek…if they refuse to post the truth…it aint on me!
Jason the least you and Geek can do is post the Norwegian Doctors assessment in Gaza…is that too much to ask…to quiet these no nothing voices.
Jewish Voices for Peace statement. JVP joins millions around the world, including 1000 Israelis who protested in the streets of Tel-Aviv in condemning ongoing attacks by Israel into Gaza. We call for an immediate end to all attacks on all citizens whether Palestinan or Israeli. Israel’s slow strangulation on Gaza through blockades has caused widespread insufficiences.
The 1.5 million people in Gaza due to lack of food, electric, water treatment and medicine are violations of humanitarian law and widely condemned. In resisting the strangulation, Hamas launched rockets into Southern Israel which is also a crime. Over the YEARS these poorly made rockets have killed 15 Israelis.
Every country in the world has a right to defend itself and is obligated to protect its citizens.
Moreover, massive Israelie air strikes are powerful and indiscrimately kill civilians, and are destroying Palestinan life. These attacks on Gaza will not protect Israel. It is illegal and immoral and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms. These attacks threaten to ignite the West Bank and the entire middles east fueling hatred for years to come.
Only a lasting and just settlement through negiotation will bring the peace both Israel and Palestine need and deserve.”
Barbara Starr? Wasn’t that a comic strip in the 60’s and 70’s?
Again – we disagree with Apparatchik’s views, so we are “no-nothings.” Typical, ultra-leftist, socialist worker mentality. Leiz, call Alex Trebek for a clue – your way of thinking and party-line loyalty ended with the fall of the Berlin Wall.
And who is Mosley?
1/2/09: Reuters. The civilian death toll climbs as Israeli air offensive intensifies. There is no sign of peace on the 7th day, where 425 Palestinans killed, and over 2000 wounded. Four Israelies have been killed.
One missile killed 3 palestinan children ages 8 12, as they played on a street in Khan Yunis, one was decapitated. These injuries are not survivorable said, Dr. Madth Gilbert, a norwegian doctor at the Gaza Shifa Hospital. He could not save a boy who had both feet blown off, “this is murder, this is a child”, he said.
Israel’s armored forces remain amassed on the Gaza frontier in preparation for a ground strike in spite of the international calls for an immediate cease fire.
An Israeli naval vessel lying offshore fired at a greenhouse. “the situation is very bad, we fear for our children said a Palestinan mother.
Bracing for protests in the WestBank, Israel has sealed the west bank and beefed up security forces.
In Jordan riot police fired on protestors marching on the Israelie embassy.
Nine mosques have been destroyed in Gaza, “we shall pray at home said a Palestinan man.
The zionists have now gone in with ground forces into Gaza…..the killing fields begin. They claim they learned a lesson in Lebanon with too few troops…they have amassed thousands more to get the starving Palestinans already in weakend positions.
Expect the middle east to erupt and the US and zionist Israel hated more than ever. None of this will protect Israel…and what does the US get out of this international criminal activity.
Liez, why aren’t you packing your bags and heading over to Gaza to help these “innocents?” You talk a good game, but you’re a cripple when it comes to walking the walk.
The intelligence test now begins for Gaza residents. If you see a column of Israeli tanks and soldiers headed for Hamas positions, you:
a. Run toward them with whatever weapons you have,
b. Go home or to some other place not used by Hamas,
c. Call IDF with the location of the rocketboys,
d. Both B and C.
And you’ve been claiming for 5 days now that “the Middle East is going to erupt.” It hasn’t happened yet because the moderate Arab governments (Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Fatah) also want to see Hamas put out of the terror business.
Liz says the Arab neigbors are going to war to support an extremist movement with a track record of violent overthrow of elected officials.
Liz, is this your prediction, or your wish?
Liz is reporting you idiot…from Reuters…do you even know what it is. Are you happy the modern day holocaust of 1.5 million trapped in a prison are about to be slaughtered. do you know that Israel has forbid Mubarek of Egypt not to open the Rafah crossing, so no one can get out….this is the Warsaw Ghetto all over again.
God help us all.
MJ: your absolute ignorance is overwhelming. Do you know that Israel sent warnings to Egypt, Syria, Iran and Lebanon “to do nothing”, talk about threatening your neighbors! But of course you with no information, just your opinion wouldnt no that. MJ, aka Jon Moseley are you dancing over this holocaust taking place?
In Jordan riot police are busting heads. In Saudia Arabia they are arresting anyone who protests, In Egypt the people are fighting the police…you dont know anything because you are getting all your info from fake fox news…mine is international!
Liez, spare us your comparisons to the Holocaust and the Warsaw Ghetto. You dishonor the memories of those who were lost back then. Shame!!!!!
Apologies for being out of the know of your reference – but who the fuck is Jon Moseley? Another one of your apparatchiks?
Liez, what is unbelievable is the bullshit and fiction you spew every time you touch your keyboard.
Liez – see #243 and answer the question!
Wonder what El Somnambulo thinks of this 250-post back and forth between Liz and MJ. I gave up thinking they had the answer to peace in the Middle East about 200 posts ago. Are we going for a record? The more you two go on, the less inclined I am to root for either “perspective.” At this point you’re just lobbing stale bagels at each other. Enough of this meshugass!
No problem. I’ll continue on my own blog. And stale bagels make great bread crumbs (actually I use these when making a meatloaf). Better than matzo meal.
mj: Am surprised you havent gotten on the first plane out to join the slaughter. I am neither pro Hamas or Pro Israel….I have consisently provided information on the humanitarian aspects of the situation. You on the other hand are an obvious zionist with only one view…the zionist view and humanity be damned.
mj: delaware watch…jon moseley…DL, MJ the initials backwards….you post similiar or same comments on both sites…do you think we are stupid.
#245;….the arab governments will determine their policy when the people erupt which they already are…thats why they have the cops out beating heads in Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, West Bank and elsewhere..damn you can get that much info on CNN /MSNBC.
What I find interesting, MJ, is that once I stopped calling you names, you stopped talking to me. Could it be that you just enjoy fighting rather than looking for common ground? Sure seems that way from my perspective…
Grex at 207,
“there is only one side in this conflict that deliberately targets civilians, whether by suicide bombers or by unguided rockets. ”
What a crock. zionists have been deliberately targeting Palestinian civilians since 1947. …. and haven’t stopped since.
Geezer, not ignoring you. If you’d like, I could start again. 🙂
Liez, sorry you have me confused with someone else. No Jon’s or Moseley’s in my family. Never have read Delaware Watch. Believe what you want, but since you’re an apparatchik, you’ll stick to whatever you wrote in 254. And do you really want me to answer that question?
Delacrap – well, you’re just a schmuck and not worth engaging.
If IDF was targeting civilians they would all be dead already.
The reason Israel hasn’t killed all the Palestinians is Israeli restraint and standards of civilization.
The reason Palestinians haven’t killed all the Israelis is lack of equipment.
260!
This from Jennifer Lowenstein, Middle East Studies expert at Un. of Wisconsin.
“Israel with the unconditional and approving support of the US has mad it dramatically clear to the world over and over again repeating in action after action, tht it will NOT accept a Palestinan state next to its borders.
Think Warsaw ghetto when you visualize Gaza. Its is becoming more and more obvious that the Palestinans are an inconvenient truth to the hard line Israelie right who get political points in their upcoming elections in Feb. 2009.
Was it not the Jews who were the inconvient truth for the Nazis during WW2~~their final solution by attempting to eliminate them?
Unfortunately, the ongoing assault in Gaza spanks of the same horrifying final solution, which a vast majority of the world agrees.
The world is in desperate need of an honest broker in the middle east to resolve these problems”.
Will Obama be that honest broker is yet to be determined.
anon,
israeli “restraint” has murdered over 400 Palestinians.
400 in the past few days.
Now if zionists were dying at such a rate, anon and Mj would be screaming about a holocaust.
Geezer, I would love to find common ground. Perhaps you and I could carry on a great, respectful discussion offline?
# 263 – Delacrap, that is where you are wrong. I would not be invoking the memory of the family I lost at the hands of the Nazis.
Cambodia after Pol Pot seized power – a holocaust. Rwanda in 1994 – a holocaust. Darfur – a holocaust. This situation is not a holocaust in the least sense of the word.
Unfortunately, the ongoing assault in Gaza spanks of the same horrifying final solution
Actually, it “spanks” more of the Allied drive on Berlin.
MJ at 263
zionists have not been invoking The Holocaust ever since it was over.
just look at anon at 266 following comment alluding to the “Allied drive on Berlin” !
Admit it. The Holocaust is your thousand year guilt trip.
Hey, is the protest march still going on?
Ah, delacrap finally shows that he is indeed an anti-Semite. C’mon, admit it. You hate anything Jewish. You are hereby banned from ever eating another bagel for the rest of your life. Unless you eat those goyisha things with the raisins and blueberries – those aren’t bagels.
270! Is this a record?
hardly…the gun post I threw up has over 300
If you want, I can start swearing at you now and see if we can get it to 400 🙂
BTW, check out the logo I made you guys on my latest post (I want a share in the proceeds, hats, t-shirts ..OMG what did I do)