Comment Rescue: America’s Burning
Okay, I’m paraphrasing in the title, but Unstable Isotope made an interesting comment:
Even people with a job right now are not feeling too secure. That’s why consumer spending has fallen off a cliff – it’s not just the unemployed, but the underemployed and the people who are afraid of job loss.
Americans are walking on a razor’s edge and I believe the days are gone for outrageous consumer spending. The American people are done with that. It is obvious with confidence so low in the economy, Americans are cutting back on their “essentials”: leftovers are being eaten more, cell phone service is being cut back, cable channels dropped, going out to dinner less, not buying a new computer, not buying a new car . . . . you get the point. Having Americans spend to get us out of this economic meltdown is not a valid option.
Austerity has set in and its not going to leave anytime soon. An example of America’s new found austerity would be our driving habits. Throughout the country, we all curtailed on driving when gasoline was well over $4 per gallon. Now that gas has dropped to less than $2 per gallon, take a look at yourself, are you driving any more? Or are you in the same mindset as you were when gas was twice as expensive?
So while the Republicans in Congress and the Senate dilly-dally, confidence is going to keep on slipping. And if the Republicans think that by making the economy sink even lower, they are going to increase their chances in 2010, I believe they are sadly mistaken. Americans know that the economy is not going to be an easy fix, that it is going to take time. If the Republican continue on their same path, after 2010, they will end up with Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia and Idaho.
We have cut all those things, and have no intention of buying anything other than necessities – food, etc. How many people are secure in their jobs? How many will be receiving raises? These “employed” people are effecting the economy as well.
And if the economy gets worse while Congress fiddles both party’s will lose. I see no winners in this strategy.
Even though I survived this round of job cuts I’m not feeling secure at all and my family is keeping the spending down. One big change is trying not to buy anything with credit, and trying to pay off all credit card debts.
I don’t think that Americans are done with outrageous spending. As soon as we all feel “wealthy” again, we’ll be right back at it.
The essential puzzle here (and I’ve said this before) is that we have an economy that is mostly powered by Consumer Spending. On purpose. If Consumer Spending becomes more in line with our incomes (which have been largely stagnant for the past 8 years), how do we all live with that permanent contraction in GDP AND employment?
I am NOT arguing for a return to the profligate spending, but that something has to replace that part of the economy. Investments into alternative energy sources, energy efficiency, transformational (even traditional) infrastructure investments certainly have the ability to fill that gap. And have the added benefit of not being easily outsourced AND in creating technology that could be readily exported in a world that really will need those alternatives. But if you are listening to how Rs are talking about some of the beginning investments in a newer economy, you might come away observing that thinking big and thinking over a long investment horizon is somehow unAmerican.
OK, gotta snark this, just to pull myself off of the ledge (thanks UI and bearded-sage for this latest round of depression).
And if the economy gets worse while Congress fiddles both party’s will lose…
I see an upcoming nemski post (HINT) of a video of The Who’s Fiddle About from Tommy. Best use would be straight from the movie, too. Keith Moon (Uncle Ernie) can represent Congress and poor, poor Tommy (played by Roger Daltrey), represents the US Citizenry. In addition to Tommy getting blanked by his Uncle Ernie (it’s not shown in the movie, but if you listen to the words, you know what’s going on), good ol’ Uncle Ernie just goes on “Fiddlin’ About” while Tommy is secluded away….
Fiddle about!
Consider that word my gift to you, Smitty. Even scarier… I had the same reference in mind when I typed it. My 14 year old son has discovered The Who. It’s like living in a time warp around here!
Rock on!
What’s next for him, Logan’s Run?
I had to go there.
Suggestion: Give him Live At Leeds. Make the “My Generation” track repeat, ad nauseum. Tell him to crank it and you and hubby leave for about two hours. When you get back, one of two things will be evident: you will either have a future rock-n-roll star on your hands, or he will be so sick of it, he’ll want to go to school forever and become a doctor. Either way, he’ll take care of you when you’re older.
If the Republican continue on their same path, after 2010, they will end up with Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia and Idaho.
And if Republicans approve everything Democrats cobble together in Congress and the Democrat President signs they’ll end up with…what exactly? There’s no political strategy that supports giving your enemy comfort. Nancy Pelosi put together that crap sandwich in the House and didn’t want Republican involvement. Between Nancy and Harry, Republicans have been told to go sit in the back of the bus until votes are needed to pass legislation or to give Democrats “bipartisan” cover.
To put it bluntly. You guys won. Now you get to make the decisions, get the glory and the blame. Live with it.
If Democrats were genuinely concerned about fast-tracking a stimulus bill to the President, they’d take out all the stuff in this bill that isn’t going to stimulate the economy. That includes funding for “green technology,” pork barrel projects, family planning, the NEA and so on. You guys KNOW this, but you don’t want to accept that this bill is the drunken holiday Dems have been waiting for more than a decade to get and they just can’t unlock the liquor cabinet fast enough.
There’s no crisis that funding research on green technologies is going to fix today, next week, month, or year. Those are big ticket projects that deserve a lot of debate and deliberation before they go throwing around our money.
There’s no political strategy that supports giving your enemy comfort.
How about a political strategy that rolls up its sleeves to deal with the financial meltdown your party caused? What you guys won’t get past is that there really is a problem out there, a problem caused very much by your policy of loose money and regulations and now millions of Americans are losing their jobs because of it.
Just help to fix it — and Rs in the House were certainly included in the drafting of the package — they decided to not show up so that they’d have this talking point to outrage their credulous followers.
That includes funding for “green technology,” pork barrel projects, family planning, the NEA and so on.
Get back to us when you understand the basic concept of economic stimulus, ok?
The essential puzzle here (and I’ve said this before) is that we have an economy that is mostly powered by Consumer Spending.
We don’t simply have an economy powered by consumer spending we have a worldview.
Our whole post war culture is dominated by consumption. It is our moral scorekeeper, (rich people good, hard working honest – poor people bad, lazy, dishonest). Our self worth hinges on our ability to consume. Consumption the lever we press to reach self actualization and the earth is the fulcrum.
Can we really be Americans and not plow through the earth’s resources like Sultan Ibrahim the Mad plowed through concubines?
I doubt it.
“but that something has to replace that part of the economy”
A part of the stimulus that’s important and will replace part of the economy are the infrastructure
projects. I don’t remember (nor will anyone else on this blog) but a big part of useful infrastructure improvements in prior times were running a lot of the power grid, telephone lines and railroads across the nation. Replace power grid with broadband/fiber optic and replace some of the current passenger lines bullet trains may accomplish this.
Keep in mind, every bullet the fed has to fight this has been used.
I’m just waiting to be called un-American for not shopping. Wasn’t that the Republican battle cry after 9/11?
And advancing Green Technology takes vision, something Sharon and her party lack – even as they bemoan the fact that America doesn’t make anything anymore .
And advancing Green Technology takes vision, something Sharon and her party lack – even as they bemoan the fact that America doesn’t make anything anymore .
Shoot. Given the bio-technology we already have in this state, I don’t see why we can’t morph (or extend) into green-technology manufacturing. I don’t mean little shops, either. It’s possible and we have the abandoned facilities (really, the land they are on…it would have to be rebuilt) all over the freaking state. Then again, I do realize that I am not among many from my side with this open-arms call to the industry. Every time I go on I-70, past Frederick, MD, I feel jealousy that those bastards can lay claim to the BP green-energy research facility. So close!!!
How about a political strategy that rolls up its sleeves to deal with the financial meltdown your party caused?
Wait a second. Your party has been in control of Congress for 2 years already, so you can quit with the “it’s your party’s fault” crap. YOUR party is responsible, as well. Your party has, over the years, voted for loosening mortage requirements, etc. that helped create the mortgage crisis.
And if you can show me where researching “green technologies” is going to create jobs in the next 6 months, then provide the link. What you are talking about are long-term projects that aren’t going to help unemployment this year. And if funding the NEA is going to create new jobs, then pony up the proof for that assertion.
Again, if you think “green technologies” are worth funding, that’s a debate worth having. But there’s no desperate need this week to pour billions into it. Unless, of course, this is really about using political capital to funnel taxpayer money to certain districts before any post-election goodwill dries up. (Psst. That’s what it’s really about. Not helping the poor and middle class.)
And until consumers are up and spending again, all the NEA grants in the world aren’t going to help.
Agreed, Smitty. It seems America’s vision has become: Milk existing industries dry and only look to new ways of doing things when those industries stop making money.
all the NEA grants in the world aren’t going to help.
So — you have no idea what it is that the NEA does, then? They are a grant-making organization. They provide financial support to arts education programs in public schools and they provide financial support to local arts organizations. Just so you know, artists and teachers spend their money the way that the rest of us do. And just so you know, arts programs of all kinds often take the first hits when the economy goes sour. Keeping these programs and the people who work for them employed and off of unemployment is pretty stimulative. And keeping these people employed alo goes to support the industries that support them. (That is called a multiplier effect.) Plus all of those folks are buying groceries and paying their mortgages. It isn’t much, but it is text book stimulus.
Your talk radio handlers have likely told you that the NEA support is bad, but you should not be surprised to know that your talk radio handlers are dead wrong. But then, being wrong is how we know it’s really you, isn’t it?
Nice try, Cassandra, but you’re wasting your breath. Sharon is a person who believes Happy Days was an accurate portrayal of the 1950’s.
Well, there you go. She’s probably blond, too.
I do think that there are things in the bill worth thinking twice about, but to argue that they aren’t stimulus when is is really clear that you have no idea what that means is the real work.
Um, excuse me, but all those laid-off office personnel, lawyers, bankers, etc. are now going to be artists? Spending money on the arts is a luxury, and we can argue about whether that’s a proper function of government, but I doubt, seriously, that keeping one more sculptor employed is going to do more for the economy than, say, helping dozens of employees from large corporations who have been laid off.
Let’s try talking about cost-effective stimulus, Cassandra. Not the feel-good stuff that you like to engage in. We don’t need to subsidize your tickets to La Boheme. We don’t need to spend $50 million for the digital TV switch or $150 mil for honeybee farmers. Those are ways to stimulate the economy. I don’t have a problem with spending money on food stamps or unemployment. I’m not even against job training, although that’s another boondoggle most of the time. But trying to argue this bill is really about providing millions of new jobs is B.S. But that’s what we know about *ahem*, isn’t it?
She’s probably blond, too.
Wow, misogyny on a liberal site. I’m shocked!
Listen, Cassandra, you’ve shown that you don’t understand how the economy works, either. Because rather than talking about how a bill could be put together that would help stimulate the economy, you’re stuck on your talking points:
1. It’s all the Republcians fault. Democrats never controlled the government and never voted for anything.
2. Rich people have all the money. Just take it from them! Legalized theft is acceptable as long as it’s not MY money being taken (even though it will be).
3. Everything in this bill is great. No, Dems aren’t playing politics. Of course, it’s important to spend millions more on digital TV boxes, NEA grants, etc. And then we’ll complain about bank execs redecorating with taxpayer money. But maybe not if those bank execs hire an artist who has an NEA grant. Or something.
“We don’t need to spend $50 million for the digital TV switch or $150 mil for honeybee farmers.”
OK…Yes we do need to spend for the digital switch as the analog spectrum freed up by the digital switchover is worth a lot of money (and some of it has already been sold)
As for the bees. Yes we do. Considering the way bees have been dying off lately, we may have bigger problems that arguing about a stimilus plan if we lose the bees
Sharon, are you saying that office personnel, lawyers, bankers, etc are real jobs while people working for the NEA and artists are phony jobs? Ya think the unemployment office has a special NEA/Artist line?
Like I said, Sharon — come back when you understand what it is you are trying to argue.
But if you want to keep memorializing your idiocy by keeping up your uninformed rant — have at it. we’ll jump in when there seems to be something that you actually understand.
We don’t need to spend $50 million for the digital TV switch or $150 mil for honeybee farmers.
The bolded proves Sharon has no idea what the hell she’s talking about! This provision is specifically focusing on sustaining agriculture. Given the massive problems caused by the sudden disappearance of those pollinators over the past couple years, mostly lower crop yield. It will be money well spent.
But Sharon knows otherwise, right? Bees are silly! Unfortunate for her, talking about shit she doesn’t know anything about is readily apparent in this case…..again like her Champion, Palin, with the ragging on fruit fly research. But the fool didn’t realize the research is on the cutting-edge in the fight to understand autism.
Why don’t you do us all a favor and drink a nice cup of molten metal? Permanently seal that yap!
If we don’t save the honeybees we’ll have a tough time eating.
Republicans don’t understand what stimulus is. One of them (Demint?) went on TV and said the bill wasn’t stimulus it was spending. Don’t they know that’s the point?
I also have a bone to pick with those re-writing the history of the Great Depression, the ones who say it took WWII to get out of it. Isn’t spending on the military and industry to support it also government spending?
I swear, it is difficult to debate with people who don’t even understand simple logic.
Here’s another Sharon gem:
“Again, if you think “green technologies” are worth funding, that’s a debate worth having. But there’s no desperate need this week to pour billions into it.”
There has been a desparate need for this funding ever since President Reagan tore the solar panels off of the whitehouse. I guess Sharon believes saving energy and resources isn’t going to keep money in the hands of consumers, especially not in the long term.
You see the overall plan isn’t just to flip the time machine switch back four years only to walk down the same road again. It’s the future stoopid! This is a real plan, a plan that will ultimately benefit every citizen in the US (and world), from all walks of life, even republicans.
What it is not, is a plan to merely steer cash rewards towards wealthy donors inorder garner short term support for the next election and continue the status quo. In fact, the path of foresight President Obama has chosen may cost him the next election. Look long term baby because short term has already been screwwed by President Bush’s longterm.
Man, this is boring. Jason, can you get back to the concubine part, please?
Gee, we’re driving less to conserve gas and we’re saving more and we’re not buying things we don’t need or can’t afford. Too bad that sustainable behavior causes an economic collapse.
At last. Someone mentioned my mention of Ibrahim the Mad. (I was wondering what you had to do to be pretentious around here.)
FWIW, I draw the line at Premier League Football. There are some affectations that are simply too poncey to consider.