A Stunning Thing To Face
To all you 2nd Amendment extremists, it’s time to shut up and do something about the guns in our streets. If you don’t, one can only assume you hate the police.
Tags: guns
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if the police had guns, they’d wouldn’t have to worry about being shot by cri
m
i
dang!
Sadly, with this economy, you easily see people becoming desperate for a means… and by logical extension, see them become more likely to pick up a gun to rob a bank or commit some other type of crime for money.
But isn’t wrapping DART buses with “FED UP” posters enough??? No… 2008 was Wilmington’s Bloodiest Year in History.
A SWAT team had entered an apartment to clear and search it when the gunman shot them with an assault rifle, police said…
This must be gun grabber propaganda.
if the cops had a spoon, a pool and a fork, they could have won this fight.
Historically, those things are way more deadly
To all you 1st Amendment extremists, it’s time to shut up and do something about the blogs on the internet. If you don’t, one can only assume you hate government approved journalism.
Just what new laws would have prevented this? He was a prohibited purchaser on parole and had a hefty rap sheet. California is A-rated by the Brady Campaign. 87 out of a possible 100 points, more than ANY OTHER STATE. Cali should be a gun free paradise compared to the rest of the nation.
Killing cops is illegal.
His possesion of ANY firearm was illegal.
Violated parole is illegal.
Your solution is to make things more illegaler???
Ya, that should work.
I’m more concerned with getting criminals off the streets, but if you want to focus on inanimate objects rather than the living breathing scum who missuse them, let me know how that works out for ya, mmkay.
but didn’t the cop’s have guns? that should trump everything and they knew the guy was dangerous. weird…mmmmkay
“Thomason said Mixon had an “extensive criminal history” and was wanted on a no-bail warrant.
People lingered at the scene of the first shooting. About 20 bystanders taunted police.”
Hmmm, a crowd of 20 people taunting the police as they loaded their fallen comrades into body bags and those who exercise their 2nd Amendmet Rights legally are the ones who hate cops.
All righty then. Position noted.
but the cops had guns
Guess this guy decided he wasn’t going down like Oscar Grant.
Not defending, just explaining. Those cops have some repair work to do in the community.
Let’s even up the odds and give all the cops assault weapons and see how that turns out.
There is absolutely no reason for anybody outside a military camp, or police swat teams, to have assault weapons. Period. No exceptions. They should all be seized and confiscated. Take that gun lobby!!!
“Take that gun lobby!!!”
*sigh*
Hmmm, no effect. Maybe next time you could type it out all in CAPS and that’ll really show ’em.
BTW, as defined under the 1994 Crime Bill, all Cali cops already carry “assault weapons,” but you don’t even know what the legal definition is, do you?
yay! the “arm everyone” wingnuts are showing up. Its a magical time on every thread.
kaveman,
but the cops had guns
So your argument is that since firearms are not 100% effective in self defense scenarios, then they they are 0% effective?
Interesting logic.
Seatbelts aren’t 100% effective.
Fire exstinguishers aren’t 100% effective.
Dailing 911 isn’t 100% effective.
See how easy this is?
Let’s face it, blaming law abiding gun owners for the actions of criminal scum who never should have stood before a parole board makes just as much sense as printing 1 trillion dollars out of thin air to reduce our financial troubles.
are you all the same person? we dont blame law abiding gun owners. we blame gun laws that allow bad people to easily get guns.
never mind it is the same argument with every single pro gun loony that posts here. you see we have a problem with people killing cops, and you assume we want everyone to lay down their precious weapons. it is like arguing with a faucet, or a republican.
Sigh… Telling them to shut up and do something accomplishes nothing. What we need is a more in-depth discussion and strategies for tackling these problems from all sides, the causes as well as the effects. Poverty, police conduct, smuggling, organized crime, glorification, mental health, inadequate registration technology, better safety devices, marijuana prohibition, more police with better benefits and equipment, urban redevelopment, support for single parents…
I’m all for an assault weapons ban, but unless we do much, much more to address the underlying and related problems, such a measure will prove ineffective. What I’m saying is that we need to refocus our energies.
What we obviously need is to have a free market of weaponry… the people that know about guns will surely be the ones that will know best on how to regulate themselves.
Just like the A.I.G!!
In seriousness, yep, the illegal usage of guns is a symptom of a rudimentary problem that needs a comprehensive solution regarding education, work opportunity, drug rehab… No, I’m not a spokesmen for SURJ
But, a convenient solution that has to have short term benefits would be an assault weapon ban… seriously though, why do you even NEED an assault weapon if you’re not starting your own paramilitary group in Michigan or religious cult in Texas… if your hunting rifle will stop a deer, it can probably stop an intruder, right?
price, I’m merely responding to the insinuation of the original post.
I read it this way:
If I support the 2nd Amendment, I must hate cops.
Is this your position as well? I hope it’s not because it’s kinda ridiculous.
Styker is more in line with moving the debate, which I welcome, further. The problem of people, PEOPLE, committing acts of violence can never be solved by targeting inanimate objects. We need to address the problems of those in our society which have no regard for human life. When I was 26 years old, I was still trying to figure out what my career was gonna be. This guy in Oakland shot his load over what?
Here’s the problem I see.
People from broken homes and a lack of positive role models will fill that void with any role models they can find, regardless if they’re positive or negative. It’s a crap shoot really. Those who stray down the path of crime, initiate a feedback loop. If crime in a particular area goes up, those with the financial resources vote with their feet and get out. This applies to individuals and businesses. This in turn reduces opportunities for others in the area to find a job. As jobs dry up, crime increases.
Rinse, lather and repeat.
The problem has never been about weapons. The problem has always been about those who would smash your head with a rock if that’s the only thing they could find because they couldn’t afford the latest release of Air Jordan sneakers and decided their petty satisfaction of having the latest status symbol was more important than the life of their neighbor.
no kaveman,
it is much easier and requires much less though to pull a trigger. it takes a long time to beat someone to death, stabbing them can require looking them in the eye.
A gun, and a gun alone allows you to end someone’s life very quickly, very easily, and very impersonally.
The fact that someone can just walk into a wal-mart and purchase a gun after a joke of a waiting period, than walk out onto a crowded street in north philly and murder a cop is an abortion of justice.
I’m not against banning all guns. How about gun enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all guns.” The solution will lie somewhere in the middle.
You make my point for me…uh, thankyou.
What is it that makes PEOPLE pull the trigger?
What is it that makes PEOPLE beat others to death?
What is it that makes PEOPLE stab another?
Your notion that a scum-bag psychopath who is willing to shoot a cop would suddenly see the errors of his ways if forced to stab a cop or smash his skull with a brick is quite laughable.
Thanks for the Sunday entertainment.
Think about it for a sec. If the scum-bag did in fact slit the throats of these men in blue rather than shoot them, the local business people would not have heard any gun fire and thus, never would’ve called 911.
Ya might want to google the Tueller Drill before responding.
if guns don’t work against criminals with guns then what’s left?
your turn Kaveman. Tell me the one about the fork or the pool. I love that story.
“How about gun enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all guns.”
Ok, I’ll bite.
How about speech enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all words.”
How about speech enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all books.”
How about speech enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all blogs.”
How about religion enthusiasts say “We’re not for legalizing all faiths.”
How about due process enthusiasts say “We’re not for illegalizing all rendition.”
How about privacy enthusiasts say “We’re not for illegalizing all warrantless wiretapping.”
See how easy this this, folks?
Now before any of you call me a bush supporter(I can’t bring myself to even capitalize his name), I believe that bush, his entire cabinet and his wife and children should rot in prison while being daily gang raped by wild dingos.
If anyone here can show a sourced link that the NRA(it is your target, you know it) has EVER advocated any gun for any person in any place, I will film myself cutting one of my handguns in half with a blowtorch, post it on youtube and return here to provide a direct link to the video.
If you are unable or unwilling to do this, ask yourself why?
“if guns don’t work against criminals with guns then what’s left?”
I guess you missed my earlier post:
So your argument is that since firearms are not 100% effective in self defense scenarios, then they they are 0% effective?
Interesting logic.
Seatbelts aren’t 100% effective.
Fire exstinguishers aren’t 100% effective.
Dailing 911 isn’t 100% effective.
See how easy this is?
Please let me know if you need reminding that water is wet and toe jam smells nasty.
“Dailing 911 isn’t 100% effective.”
Sure you want to be the spelling police?
That said, the examples you list make us safer. But… that’s not your point. There is no compromise with you, is there, Kaveman? Which in my book makes you part of the problem.
We have a gun problem in this country. Solutions to this reality would be nice… or, you can keep up your “why’s everybody picking on me defense” which, actually, is the quickest way to make sure your rights are threatened.
“…makes just as much sense as printing 1 trillion dollars out of thin air to reduce our financial troubles.”
Actually, less, because printing the trillion dollars will in one sense reduce our financial troubles. It creates new and different problems, of course, but inflation has always been the debtors’ friend — and since we’re a debtor nation, it will prove to be our friend, too.
Since you’re not a debtor, K, you’re pretty much “SOL.”
Never claimed to be the spelling or grammer police. But have you seen this?
“these people are excited about in on coming civil war Glen Beck is masturbating to every night. they WANT everything to fall a part so they can feel vindicated about actually voting for Sarah Palin.
Go shoot whatever you want Neanderthal. No one expects, other than new news shows who need ratings like a junkie need his fix, things to get better any time soon.
When Bush left office the economy was a flaming garbage truck in which someone has dumped toxic waste going down a steep hill with no breaks right at an orphanage. inside that truck in a small box was the American dream. first we have to build a wall around the orphanage, than we need t get a while lot of water and whatever else ready to clean up if the truck hits, THAN we need to install breaks (bank regulation) put out the fire, get rid of the toxic waste, put the trash (vicrem panditt) where it needs to go (hell) than watch things improve… only to go the other direction when the center of the country swings back to the right and we elect jenna bush.”
In my opinion, Obama needs to pump some mad cash into education right quick.
Wow.
we blame gun laws that allow bad people to easily get guns.
So…which law would have prevented this one? California has an assault weapons ban, and the guy in question was already prohibited from owning guns.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m just curious as to which law exactly would have prevented this?
“inflation has always been the debtors’ friend ”
Care to elaborate?
“Since you’re not a debtor, K, you’re pretty much “SOL.”
Care to explain this, as well?
Wow.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up but assault rifles are already illegal in California…..and a violent criminal still got his hands on one and killed four police officers.
I hate to bring politics into something like this (then again, you started it) but doesn’t this just prove the pro-gun adage that if guns are criminalized criminals will still have them?
Mr Price wrote:
Except, of course, that the recent spree of killing Philadelphia Police officers wasn’t done by people who “walk(ed) into a wal-mart and purchase a gun after a joke of a waiting period.” They were all killings by people with lengthy criminal records, who could never buy a gun legally. (A couple of the killings were through automobile crashes, but the perps were still career criminals.)
Officer Chuck Cassidy is stone cold graveyard dead because a punk who had a record was not treated seriously by the district attorney’s office, which dropped robbery charges after he completed a drug rebab program, even though the robbery occurred while he was in teh treatment program. Then, he was positively identified, by name, as the perpetrator of an armed robbery of a pizza shop two weeks prior to his murder of Officer Cassidy, his address was known to the police (he actually lived with his mother, a city corrections officer, who was known to take her service weapon home), and nobody bothered to even seek an arrest warrant against him. Then, after Officer Cassidy was dead, everybody wondered why the killer wasn’t already in jail.
A few months later, another officer was gunned down. His killer had a lengthy record, and the deputy district attorney asked the judge to put him away for the maximum sentence, because he was an irredeemable threat. Instead, this bleeding heart gave him the legal minimum, and, on top of that, despite having a lengthy record of getting into trouble, including violent trouble, while in prison, the state parole board gave him early parole!
Just wait for it: tomorrow or the next day it will come out the the killer in Oakland was another convicted felon, treated leniently by the criminal justice system, and everybody will be wondering why he wasn’t still in jail for past offenses.
“… and by logical extension, see them become more likely to pick up a gun to rob a bank or commit some other type of crime for money.”
And, until now, I thought Jason was the preeminent simpleton on this blog…
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m just curious as to which law exactly would have prevented this?
A law that does not allow factory produced guns to be sold to non-police, non-military customers. It would not happen overnight, but my 2nd Amnd. original intent plan would work.
You can have my handmade matchlock when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
Kaveman: No, I don’t care to elaborate. If you don’t understand economics or the history of money, you’ll have to do your own homework.
“inflation has always been the debtors’ friend”
kkkaveman,
See if you can understand the time value of money, then you might be able to figure that statement out.
Inflation was invented by Jimmy Carter in 1972, didn’t you learn anything from Rush?
“A law that does not allow factory produced guns to be sold to non-police, non-military customers. It would not happen overnight, but my 2nd Amnd. original intent plan would work.”
Wow.
The Heller ruling has been out for a while now and some people still haven’t read it.
Maybe we could outlaw civilian gun ownership like Mexico does? Mexico is a gun-free paradise, ain’t it?
“The Heller ruling has been out for a while now and some people still haven’t read it.”
And some have. Among them, people like me, who wonder why people like you insist on getting purple-faced over those who haven’t. Let them fulminate. What’s it to you?
Maybe we could outlaw civilian gun ownership…
HELL NO! I’m a 110% 2nd Amnd. do or die purist. Gun control means hitting what you are aiming at with your handmade flintlock.
you see the USA as unstable as mexico?
Geezer,
Everyone knows that the gun control battles have all been fought and lost.
Winding up these nuts is just good clean fun.
I’m neither wound up nor purple-faced.
I just find it unusual that someone would advocate a position or path that could not possibly pass any level of review in light of the Heller case.
If David Duke started spouting off about bringing back the Poll Tax, I would be equally amused.
“2nd Amnd. Original Intent”
Be afraid. Be very afraid if you depend on factories to produce your firearms.
I’m honestly curious about your views. Is that a book title? It sounds vaguely familiar but I can’t quite place it.
I coined it.
I also coined, “Arquebus don’t kill people, people with factory made guns kill people.”
The men who drafted the constitution should be honored in our choice of home protection.
BTW – Most people who talk about original intent are making a case for enforcement of the “well regulated Militia” wording.
To my knowledge, I am the only 2nd amendment purist calling for complete freedom to own as many handmade firearms as anybody wants to own.
The Arquebus was a MATCHLOCK weapon introduced hundreds of years before the Founding Fathers were even born.
Try searching out a cool sounding name for a flintlock weapon if that’s the argument you want to stick with.
we’ve changed the constitution before….
My Arquebus was not made in a factory – so it passes muster.
My pikes, spears and maces were also handmade. So there.
Again Jason, Why not put up a post on allowing people to hand make guns here. We’ll be there to support you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M
Of course that isn’t what you mean.
Kinda funny how a fairly large blog loaded with anti-gun liberals, and not one can explain what law might have stopped a crime like this. Or what exactly an “Assault Weapon” is and what makes it something worth banning.
You’re making it easy for us to win guys!
“To my knowledge, I am the only 2nd amendment purist calling for complete freedom to own as many handmade firearms as anybody wants to own.”
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that this is already the case under current law.
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that this is already the case under current law.
You better believe it!!
Weer’d,
I’ve been perfectly consistent and my logic is unassailable.
BTW – I did describe how my original intent law would have prevented this – but to put it all the way down on the bottom shelf for you – I don’t think the shooter would have had the know-how or inclination to make his own machine gun.
Or bullets.
weer’d you keep claiming that you “are winning” but all you do is tell other people their arguments are weak, complain when we call you an idiot, or a retard, or a butt pipe, or an immature fuck ‘tard who wouldn’t know a good argument if it crawled up his ass made a nest and had babies, than you spam your links to right wing taking points and think you have “won” but your view of “winning” is a reality where Americans kill each other and claim it is a constitutional right.
jerk.
That’s a. price you have to pay.
In any event, if your Arquebus was custom made, more power to you. The design is certainly simple enough to manufacture with the right tools.
They aren’t the most eye pleasing guns on the planet, but they served their purpose of ending the period of armored knights riding throughout the lands.
Definitely produced before the concept of ergonomics.
hahaha A1… wow i hardly ever actually LOL…. but thank you.. even if you were making fun of me…. made my night
You’re a brother in the struggle, a. price. We all gotta laugh. Keep up the fight.
“make his own machine gun.”
Where was it reported that he had a machine gun?
The media likes to use the term “assault weapon,” which was legally defined in the 1994 Crime Bill. Now that that law has lapsed, only a few individual states have their own definitions, which vary greatly I might add.
I highly doubt he was firing anything capable of full-auto. But I’m sure the media will eventually report the makes/models of both guns used so we’ll just have to wait and see.
kaveman, i am not trying to hunt you down, but do you live near a major city? or in a high crime area? it is my guess that you just dont have the same “life experience” as all of us “east coast liberals”
Hey kaveman,
I disagree with Jason.
You see, I really want a mortar or one of those rocket launcher thingys to go deer hunting. I figure that it’ll save me the cost of butchering if I can just pick up the big pieces after I blow the little Bambi to bits.
Also, how can you have a good militia these days without some good mortars or rocket launcher thingys? How come the U.S. sells them to everybody else but their own citizens??? I mean you see these guys on TV with nothing, but they have a few mortars and bazookas (not the bubble gum, silly) all strapped the their donkeys.
If those police had a mortar or a rocket launcher thingy, this crime never would have happened – they could have just blown that car up and collected the pieces.
Anyway, I am pissed that you aren’t fighting very hard for real second amendment rights. Where did the founding fathers say we couldn’t have rocket launcher thingys? Or tanks? Or flame throwers?
I want to build a flame thrower for hunting that also sprays barbecue sauce. What do you think of that idea?
Anyway, how are we supposed to have a well-armed militia when sissys like you won’t stand up for our right to bear arms?
First they take your right to bear arms, next they’ll take your right to bare arms.
It is a slippery slope that you shoot from.
Carry on.
a. price
I’ll gladly answer questions and appreciate the civility.
The town I live in has about 300 people. We have no police department, no fire department, and no medical facilities.
We do have one general store, one church, one school and one post office.
In the 11 years that I have lived here we have had zero murders with any weapon of any kind. The only real brush with violence here that I know of, occured when some 21 year old loser thought it would be cool to make a “suicide vest” and run around in the woods. He basically wanted to do the classic suicide by cop thingie. The nearest SWAT team(35 miles away) rolled into town and took him into custody without shots fired. The vest was functional but the battery detonator was unplugged.
That was about 3 years ago.
To be perfectly honest, the biggest crime we have here is people drinking alcohol and 4-wheeling in the hills without wearing a helmet.
I lived in a large city for about 3 months for an out-of-state job, but outside of that, I’ve never lived in any town larger than 50,000.
I do have to guesstimate since we don’t even have a “population sign” but 300 people is close. I’d hate to guess how many guns are in town but I’d bet a paycheck it was over 2000.
anonone,
Your attempt at humor is noted and appreciated, but the differentiation between hand held weapons and crew served weapons was covered in the Militia Acts of 1791 and 1792.
Good reading.
To be perfectly honest, the biggest crime we have here is people drinking alcohol and 4-wheeling in the hills without wearing a helmet.
That would be you, right?
the differentiation between hand held weapons and crew served weapons was covered in the Militia Acts of 1791 and 1792.
And you’re just gonna give up that easily?
very well kaveman, I live near a city (philadelphia) where people get shot every day.. EVERY DAY. in the past 2 years, 6 cops have been killed.
and philly isn’t even the worst. I understand everyone around you may have found out how to use guns responsibly. But we have gangs and drugs and people, frankly who, even though they have no record and can legally own a gun, live in a culture where violence and “thug life” is glamorized.
I know it is an issue of culture, but right now, in this exact moment the problem is the guns.
I dont know how to achieve it, and i know Weer’s Beard is going to claim victory… but to me, and my life experience, less guns, stricter laws making it harder get guns…. is the answer.
a.price
I think we’re starting to understand each other a bit more and I hope we can continue a constructive dialouge because this is a complex issue that needs addressing, We agree on that, it’s the tactics where we diverge.
My position is that criminals, by their very nature, aren’t affected or concerned about lax laws, strict laws or any laws.
Reducing this down to gun laws will only affect those who abide by laws.
What would I do if I had a magic wand?
Release all people currently in prison who have no convictions of anything related to violence. The biggie here is those with drug convictions. Get these people into treatment. Of the remaining population, bring back the chain gang where heavily shackled inmates go out into the very community they victimized and white-wash graffitti, pick up garbage and do yard work for the disabled. I’m talking cuffs and leg irons and dragging a 50lb weight on the ground
If any of them steps out of line, shoot them. The inmates would earn wages, say $5 an hour. Half of the money would be paid as restitution to their victims and half of the remaining half go to the prison for operating costs. Then Uncle Sam gets his fingers an a 50% tax and the inmate keeps the rest to make a nest egg which he can use to start a new life if and when he serves his sentence and gets out.
Back at the prison, rip up the basketball court and weight lifting area and put in a garden where inmates must grow their own food.
We are living in a society where gang-bangers actually see a trip to prison as a bragging right.
We’re in deep.
Gun control is simply something politicians push so they can get their face on TV and smile ear to ear and inform us that they hear your cries and are doing “something.”
Changing the hearts and minds of kids who say they don’t expect to live past age 25 is where the battle lies.
BTW, I’m well aware of the problems in Philly. I follow a blog written by a Philly detective and he keeps us all well informed of the problems there. I feel for you, I can’t imagine living someplace half as bad as he describes. I live in Oregon, near….ah, well a bunch of mountains.
kave, im not backing out… its almost 1 am and you said a lot… im goin to sleep….
i will say this… philly isn’t “BAD” per-say. to be sure, there are parts of it to avoid,
but in general it is a wonderful place filled with American history and great food and fun.
I love the city and i just want to see it cleaned up a bit so I, as a drunk Eagles fan who throws beer on Cowboys fans can be the most dangerous person walking around.
Have a good night. I’ll be back tomorrow.
Can’t seem to fall asleep so I I wanted to share this with a. price.
Living in a small town and its culture may be hard to grasp for those who live in large metro areas and the problems that come with them.
My guess is that if you’re out in the yard playing fetch with the dog, and you see someone carrying a gun, whether it be in a hip holster or a long gun over the shoulder, you would not have warm and fuzzy feelings about that.
When I see people carrying guns while out in the yard, and this happens frequently, I know what their name is, where they live, the car they drive, who their kids are and usually know the names of their pets as well. I also open carry most times when I’m out in the yard, and carry a concealed firearm when I’m off the property. I have the permit to do so legally.
When I go to our one and only store in town, I know the clerk and the clerk knows me. If I forget to bring my wallet with me, they tell me to just pay up the next time I come in. No big deal. The store also has a hitching post so people can park their horses.
Having a neighbor come over and tell me that they’re going on vacation for 3 weeks and ask if I’ll feed their cat is common.
I had invited some out of towners over for dinner and I didn’t realize my address post out front had fallen over and so my guests were driving very slowly up and down the road, back and forth trying to find me until one of my neighbors got in his own rig, chased them down, flashed his headlights, pulled them over and asked them who they were and what they were doing. After explaining, my neighbor, pointed them them in the right direction and we enjoyed dinner. I was going to fix my address post when I got home the next day from work, but when I got home, my neighbor had already done it for me.
When we have a wind storm and trees littered across the roadway, everybody gets out the chainsaw and takes home some free firewood. I still haven’t figured out who it is, but somebody nearby keeps a stock of asphalt handy and patches up the potholes faster than any government road crew can.
One of the scariest moments I’ve had here is when I was taking an afternoon nap only to be awakened by my neighbor’s son(about 9 years old) outside my bedroom window screaming “THEIF THEIF THEIF” at the top of his lungs. I grab the shotgun and look out the window. I put the shotgun down and head outside. Brandon was screaming “theif” at his friend because he was picking some strawberries from a small patch I planted on the side of the house.
I explained it was OK and Brandon said he just thought I should know.
During the summer, the kids ride up and down the street on John Deere tractors and ask if they can do any yard work for money. I think I’ve cut my own grass maybe 6 times in 11 years.
One winter, I got my car stuck in some deep snow and slid into the ditch trying to get unstuck. I wasn’t there 60 seconds before one of my neighbors rolled up in a 4×4 with some rope.
You get the idea.
The problem I see in the large metro areas is that it is increasingly difficult to have a sense of community once that community reaches a certain size and density. Which is sad because that’s where I run up against a wall in looking for a solution to the violence seen in today’s youth. We have the Bloods and the Crips and MS-13 up in Portland and Salem; we do not have any gang presence that I can see in the smaller towns. I can’t even fathom how a gang could even form, let alone thrive and grow where I live. The community simply would not tolerate that. I can only guess, but if MS-13 did roll into town and set up shop, I don’t know, maybe down by the big oak tree by the river, people around here would not pick up the phone and dial 911 until after the……unfortunate hunting accident. That’s a hard thing for me to say because I’m kind of a big fan of due process. But when people are raised that’s it’s not right to pick another man’s strawberries without permission, the presence of gangs and the threat that would represent to their way of life would simply be too much to tolerate.
You may be tempted to argue that since the crime rate I experience is virtually non-existent, then I shouldn’t really be worried about a few firearms restrictions here and a few gun bans there. My response would be that the prevalence of firearms on such a wide basis in my town is precisely why no gang could survive very long if they tried to duplicate what you experience where I live. No, I’m not saying arm everyone in Philly and start a war, but if the citizens in a community don’t actually feel like a community, the police can’t force you to feel it and no legislation can mandate that you feel it.
Large metro areas aren’t going away and neither are small towns. These world’s can collide in a negative way or a positive one.
What I am sure of is that the overwhelming majority of the people who live around me are good and decent. The kids are raised with the values of their parents. That includes a moral compass, a strong work ethic and just enough reminder that an ass-whipping will ensue if the situation warrants it.
If somebody wants to shoot another person to steal his exspensive sneakers, even succesfully removing guns from his possesion won’t get rid of his desire to kill you for the sneakers or his twisted perception that the value of human life ranks somewhere south of footwear.
BTW Still plenty of name-calling but no answers to my question:
“Explain what law might have stopped a crime like this. What exactly an “Assault Weapon” is and what makes it something worth banning?”
kaveman wrote:
If any of them steps out of line, shoot them.
Because, of course, our justice system is perfect, innocent people are never ever convicted, and capital punishment should be at the sole discretion and snap judgement of law enforcement and corrections officers.
kaveman, you have exactly the same sense of justice and morals as the lowest and meanest of street thugs.
Exactly the same.
“kaveman, you have exactly the same sense of justice and morals as the lowest and meanest of street thugs.”
Yet, I don’t go around and shoot other people because they’re wearing the wrong colored shirt.
Wierd, huh?
Yet, I don’t go around and shoot other people because they’re wearing the wrong colored shirt.
No, but I am sure that you wish you could, or at least have others do it for you. Particularly, if “wearing the wrong colored shirt” is interpreted as stepping “out of line.”
Weird, indeed.
actually, i see a point in Kave’s prison suggestion. our prison system, IMO is somewhere between way too tough and way too lenient. we dont treat our killers and rapists as harshly as they should be treated, yet in some states a kid can still get 20 years with those people for having a little pot in their pocket. My personal feeling is, your sentence should depend on the amount of harm your crime causes. I.E madoff verses your average college aged pothead
That I think we could agree with a.price.
Let’s face it, People like Kaveman, you and Myself are NOT the problem. I know you don’t like guns, but if somehow one came into your posession I’m pretty sure the last thing you’d be doing would be hurting people or selling it to gang-bangers.
And of course the Gang-Bangers, when they can’t get guns (Dunno about Philly, but in Boston I’ve read that the gangs share a handfull of guns, essentially checking it out and checking it back in like a library book in hidden stashes. This indicates that guns are not exactly easy to come by for the thuggers) they make do with pipes, rocks, and knives.
If we didn’t have criminals we both wouldn’t need guns, nor would we be at all concerned about them.
Almost all of the murders caught in my state were already on parole for other violent crimes. They had already been caught, and yet they were released to do even MORE harm.
The Crux of the crime argument is NOT guns, but how to remove the criminals from society where they can’t do harm to the innocent.
Tools are irrelevant.
we dont treat our killers and rapists as harshly as they should be treated
Really, a. price? And what do you suggest for harsher treatment?
Do tell.
I’ve read that the gangs share a handfull of guns, essentially checking it out and checking it back in like a library book in hidden stashes. This indicates that guns are not exactly easy to come by for the thuggers)
No… it’s because gun laws in the cities make it too risky to carry a gun. Guns are plenty easy to get.
i agree with you to an extend. if someone is coming at you with a knife, you have some time, depending on your reflexes, state of mind, and training to mount a defense, or take evasive action. you have until they are close enough to cut or stab you to decide what to do. with a gun, you have until they decide to pull the trigger. they can be 50 feet away and still kill you. my argument is, while it is the person who makes the kill, the gun makes it so much easier than any other weapon, other than a bomb, or rocket launcher or energy blast
‘Really, a. price? And what do you suggest for harsher treatment?”
I’ll break with my liberal roots here and say we need to look at “cruel and unusual’ punishment a little more closely. If a “man” is convicted of raping ANYONE he should be castrated. hands down. he abused the fact that he has balls…. no more balls. Our current death penalty does nothing to deter homicides. nothing at all. We need to make the punishment for things like murder and rape so severe that prison time wont be viewed as training for when they get back out. jail is basically thug school now…. along with that would come an even greater burden of proof to make sure innocent people aren’t punished.
I am against torture as a way of gathering info but for convicted killers and rapists.. i don’t see how spending the rest of their lives in pain is any more cruel than what happened to their victems.
that said, 20 years for a joint is idiotic
a. price wrote:
If a “man” is convicted of raping ANYONE he should be castrated. hands down.
Because, of course, our justice system is perfect and innocent people are never ever convicted. Not to mention, you have no evidence that castration would prevent other violent crimes against women by castrated individuals. And what about female rapists?
Our current death penalty does nothing to deter homicides. nothing at all.
No kidding. But what do you suggest? And what standard greater than “beyond a shadow of a doubt” could require “an even greater burden of proof to make sure innocent people aren’t punished”?
“i don’t see how spending the rest of their lives in pain is any more cruel than what happened to their victems (sic).”
I keep hoping that maybe we have advanced a bit from the middle ages, but people like you show that we clearly haven’t.
I’ll break with my liberal roots here and say we need to look at “cruel and unusual’ punishment a little more closely.
Why do you hate our Constitution?
As Dostoevsky said “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
yes a1, i hate our constitution.
sometimes i wonder just how many personalities post under the anonone name.
I just think the punishment should fit the crime. if someone rapes a bunch of kids, they are either moved to a different parish, or treated as a mentally ill victim…. bullshit. even people who have a sexual attraction to children should know that acting on those impulses will damage the child forever and be forced to suffer a bigger penalty than cared for by the state. they arent even in general prison population because the other prisoners might actually try to exact justice.
Murder is the worst thing you can do to someone followed very closely by rape. in both cases you are stealing someone’s life. with murder you are also ending it. the result should be you life gets stolen or ended in a manor that is at east as painful or damaging to the person you hurt.
you can call be barbaric, but rewarding gangbangers with a 4 year stay in club Fed and probably a promotion in their company is not justice. it isn’t even rational.
and yes, female rapists should be treated just as harshly. rape isn’t about sex, it is about power. Make people who commit rape powerless for the rest of their pathetic lives.
Ah, Here are my thoughts
But I’ll add that all registered firearms require ballistics testing upon registration.
“I keep hoping that maybe we have advanced a bit from the middle ages, but people like you show that we clearly haven’t.”
We can agree there, as Price declares that women when confronted by a rapist with a knife should engage in hand-to-hand combat.
It worked REALLY good for women and the physically weak, as well as those too poor to hire enforcers, back in the middle ages.
There’s a reason why fightings sports seperate their players by weight and sex. Criminals know this too. Hell everything knows this. The sharks go after the wounded fish, the lions go after the youngest and the oldest of the gazells.
what you propose is giving an advantage to the lions. Nice!
I also find it very strange that you say:
“No… it’s because gun laws in the cities make it too risky to carry a gun. Guns are plenty easy to get.” When most people caught carrying illigal guns in this state often plea bargain and get off with a few months of parole.
Kinda like the Oakland shooter we’re talking about above.
If you have any data to support your claim I’d love to see it. Otherwise I’d say it doesn’t make much sense at all, and I would suspect you simply made it up.
We can agree there, as Price declares that women when confronted by a rapist with a knife should engage in hand-to-hand combat.
i said nothing of the sort you ass hole. how dare you misquote me on such a serious subject. i said with a knife you have time to decide to fight or flight that you dont have with a gun. i also said rapists should get more than a vacation to the fitness club that is our prison system.
Sometimes i wonder just how many personalities post under the a. price name.
You’re all over the place here, and you’re making no sense other than to express your own bloodlust.
the result should be you life gets stolen or ended in a manor that is at east as painful or damaging to the person you hurt.
you can call be barbaric
Yes, your ideas are barbaric. You’d fit right in living under Islamic Sharia law with penalties such as flogging, limb amputations, and stoning.
Enjoy your little castration and torture fantasies.
do you call a few years of free meals justice for ruining someone’s life?
do you call a few years of free meals justice for ruining someone’s life?
Cut off their balls! Chop off their hands! Flog them down to their ribs and spines! Stone them to death! Skin ’em alive!
That’ll teach ’em, right a. price? ‘Cause that’s what justice is all about: vengeance.
murderers and rapists are on the same level as Klan members. they are all human filth and by living a life that’s purpose is to inflict pain on other, they waive their right to be treated like a human. thats my right wing view point. we have to stop coddling the worst of our worst.
im a bleeding heart socialist liberal on every other front, but no soft treatment for human garbage.
what is your solution?
there is something to the claims from the Right that the left wing is more intolerant. give one viewpoint that strays from the left wing dogma and you are a monster. way to help our cause
My point was about rented or borrowed guns… I learned this literally on the streets in NYC. You are right, I didn’t have data to back it up… but it wasn’t hard to find some. In a survey of incarcerated offenders, 18.5% of their most recently owned guns were illegally rented or borrowed:
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/abstract/fuo.htm
Lots of good data in this study for both sides of this debate. Here is my takeaway:
My solution is a fair system of criminal justice, humane prisons that keep violent offenders separated from society and away from endangering themselves and others, and a primary focus on rehabilitation as opposed to human warehousing.
Most importantly is more attention to stopping child abuse early on, improving education, rehabilitation of juvenile offenders, and substance abuse education and treatment.
You might read the book “Why They Kill” by Richard Rhodes. Then maybe you might have some sense of compassion for how many of the people you call “human filth” were tortured, bullied, and beaten routinely as children. Many, if not most, are beyond rehabilitation no matter what. But that doesn’t mean that, as a society, we shouldn’t try to rise to a higher level of humanity rather than stoop down to theirs.
So, yes, I am unabashedly intolerant of people like you who advocate state torture and maiming to fulfill their own bloodlust for vengeance.
I thought that we were better than that. Sadly, no.
“Many, if not most, are beyond rehabilitation no matter what.”
If this is true, then I don’t want those people ever coming close to a parole board.
anonone, I agree with your ideas under one stipulation. If a violent offender is considered “Rehabilitated” he’d best not turn around and rape/kill/molest another person for the rest of his life, otherwise your very sound system will fall on it’s ear.
Again, in a world without criminals we would neither need guns, nor much care about them.
Until then we either need quality tools of personal defense, or Price’s magic ninja-skills.
yes i AM a super hero.
WB:
There will be some repeats. 1 in 10? 1 in 100? I dunno. I think that we need to err on the side of safety in reintroducing violent repeat offenders back into society. If there is any question, they don’t go back out.
So I think that we need to be much more skeptical of someone actually being “rehabilitated” then we are today, while at the same time trying to actually rehabilitate those who might be salvageable, instead of just warehousing them.
For the sad majority that aren’t rehabilitatable, we should treat them as humanely as possible but keep them safely isolated from society.
Unfortunately, today we basically warehouse all of them in inhumane prisons with little attempt at rehab.
People often cringe when I discuss this, particularly my liberal friends. While I try to see the good in all people, I also recognize that some people can’t change. A little kid whose parents beat the crap out of him regularly for his entire childhood and who becomes a violent perpetrator as an adult is probably scarred and angry and violent for life. It is sad, but true.
But should we make that person suffer more for the rage instilled in him/her as a helpless child? I don’t think so, but we do need to protect society from him/her as humanely as possible for the remainder of their life.
When you think about it, it is really really sad. We gotta do more to save kids.
+1 to that, Man. Mass Department of Human Services is a HORRIBLE system that lets children suffer and die every year, I’m fighting for reform here.
Still one thing to point out is while some kids take horrendous abuse and become monsters, many who have a similar life grow up to not only be normal upstanding citizens, but some of the greatest success stories and inspiration to us all.
One must always be cautious not to trample on those who have experienced so much and survived for the sake of showing compassion to those who may have seen less, and yet turned bad. Worse yet there are people with zero excuse for being the beasts they are.
Certainly people can change. A drunk can stop drinking, a cheater can learn to be faithful, no reason why a violent person can’t learn to be peaceful, but the stakes on that are so high there must be a means to demonstrate rehabilitation. Of course nothing will be 100% but when it comes to the lives of the innocent at the hand of those proven guilty by the jury of their peers, I would prefer to err on the side of the innocent.
You’d really enjoy that book, WB. It isn’t just the abuse can turn people in to monsters. As you point out, many don’t.
Check it out.
Just gave it a look-over on Amazon. I may have to pick it up.
Thanks for the tip!