Head Explosion
This is it! I have found the issue that will make a conservative’s head explode! Ready?
The man charged with murdering a high-profile abortion doctor claimed from his jail cell Sunday that similar violence was planned around the nation for as long as the procedure remained legal, a threat that comes days after a federal investigation launched into his possible accomplices.
A Justice Department spokesman said the threat was being taken seriously and additional protection had been ordered for abortion clinics last week. But a leader of the anti-abortion movement derided the accused shooter as “a fruit and a lunatic.”
Scott Roeder called The Associated Press from the Sedgwick County jail, where he’s being held on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the shooting of Dr. George Tiller one week ago. “I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal,” Roeder said. When asked by the AP what he meant and if he was referring to another shooting, he refused to elaborate further.
John Cole asks a simple question, which really is a test for all conservatives. Let’s see if they will pass.
The question is… when do we start torturing Scott Roeder? Roeder is a domestic terrorist. He claims that he knows that more bombings will take place. Your perfect “24” ticking time bomb scenario that neocons have wet dreams about. The scenario they use to justify shredding the Constitution. The scenario they use to justify torture.
So, when does the torture of Roeder start? Conservatives across the land should be demanding the immediate waterboarding of Mr. Roeder! Where is their outrage? A terrorist in our custody who admits to plans of future terrorism in which innocent Americans will be killed or seriously injured?!? Why wasn’t he waterboarded yesterday? I suspect it is because Mr. Roeder is not Muslim, or at the very least, not a person of color. I suspect it is because Mr. Roeder is one of them. If a conservative had any principles, he or she would be calling for the immediate torture of …. excuse me… the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” upon Scott Roeder. But their silence speaks volumes.
Just because it happens so infrequently that it deserves to be memorialized: I agree with you completely. Great post.
hahaha. Stop the presses!
DD and Newton Agree. World Peace Achieved!
I agree too.
Whirled Peas achieved.
LOL. What’s next? Cats and Dogs getting married?
Why not, DD. Scientists have already found queer penguins raising their young.
Raising whose young? Queer Penguins (assuming you mean two penguins of the same sex) have mated and reproduced? That is rather groundbreaking! Or do you mean queer pengiuns are raising the young of another penguin?
Well, that is less surprising. For we know Humans that already do that.
Now now DD–2 wrongs don’t make a Right.
Why would you encourage the hate?
To be clear, Joanne…. I am not saying we should torture Roeder. I am against torture, whether it be against an Islamic Terrorist or a Christian one. But according to conservative logic, we should be torturing him.
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy.
DD “For we know Humans that already do that.”
They are called Grandparents.
But…but wait, not same, umm wait….😈
Frieda… yes, but I was talking about gay parents who adopt.
I posed this question earlier last week and David A. wrote on his blog that we want to torture people. I don’t think they understand the concepts of why torture is wrong in all circumstances.
Here is what will make your head explode.
In the scary aftermath of 9/11 the Obama administration has said the Bush administration could not use enhanced interrogation techniques yet now the Obama folks say they can turn 150 years of bankruptcy law into dust.
What is more realistic?, the disagreement over a Justice department ruling on interrogation or clearly established business/bankruptcy law?
Mike Protack
It’s so embarrassing when your ideology comes back and bites you on the ass!
Where, oh where, are our torture lovers, David A. and Mike P.?
He’s just above you, in #13, doing what he can to divert attention off of this subject. Surprise!
How cute! Mike P. right on cue… saying nothing.
why are we laughing about this? this is NOT funny. This is serious right wing terrorist activity. You think it stops at abortion? There will be more White Supremacist Right Wing Terrorist attacks on this country. Hopefully no one else dies
Uh, where was I laughing in the post? I was joking with Steve and Burris about our historic agreement on this issue. That is all.
Roeder is not a swarthy ‘moozlem’ so I assume he won’t be tortured. I think a price’s comment is apt though. Dr. Newton & co.’s comments seem pretty glib… do FSP, Newton, etc. really believe these are analogous “ticking bomb” situations? Should Roeder be tortured or not? Glib comments and asides about gay penguins turn this into a laughing matter… which it isn’t.
Oooooo….Scary aftermath.
Is that in perpetuity?
PSA – Never use an emoticon as a hyperlink.
No one was surprised when Dr. Tiller was murdered, and no one will be surprised when it happens again. And it will happen again, unless the authorities start taking this seriously!
There is NO doubt that the pro-life movement harbors a segment that can be easily described as domestic terrorists. Remind me again… how did Eric Randolph go 5 years without being caught?
Don’t you mean anti-abortion, P?
They’ve proven with their policy allegiances that they are nothing near “Pro-life”.
My bad, VC! You are correct, they are not pro-life.
bump
No one answered Mike P.’s question. Although off topic (ok, way off topic) it raises a good point. How we handle bankruptcy, or any law related to how we exchange money, can be changed due to changed circumstances. If we need relief due to crimes being perpetrated against the bankrupt, or to save the world economy, or whatever, that should at least be open to debate.
Whether to torture human beings should have never been up for debate and it never should be. 9/11 did not make the actions of the Bush administration OK.
There’s your difference.
Re: Pandora in #21: somebody was apparently surprised about Dr Tiller, as his nurse (or asst., I don’t recall which) had spotted Roeder around the clinic both the day Tiller got shot and the day before, and called the FBI which, according to reports I’ve read, basically discounted her sighting.
So there was definite, real-time intelligence that this specific guy was coming these particular days and still they did nothing. What I want to know about that is … why?
The FBI did nothing about Roeder. They ignored him, despite the fact that he had been convicted of planning to bomb clinics in the past.
begin torture immediately.
True, Steve. But, then again, this is the agency that ignored its own warnings about people who wanted to learn how to fly planes, but not how to land them.
Personally, I think there was a deliberate stance within law enforcement that encouraged turning a blind eye to threats against doctors and clinics that performed abortions. A sort of que sera sera attitude that needs to stop.
Pandora, you may be right, but the accounts I read seemed more like general bureaucratic indifference, or at least a manifestation that the FBI generally does long-term investigations and doesn’t jump at the drop of a hat.
As for the “deliberate stance” issue, I’m not precisely sure how we research that, given that it’s law enforcement which controls the data we get to see.
“So, when does the torture of Roeder start? ”
ASAP.
Fuck the waterboarding. Hook up the electrodes, or make him read Del. Lib. for two consecutive days.
And don’t let him respond.
Fair enough, Steve… although I did emphasize my personally. 🙂
I just can’t imagine law enforcement shrugging off other sorts of threats. Picking up Roeder was a no-brainer.
In the end, I guess we’re left with two options:
1. they didn’t really care about the warnings and sightings, or
2. they’re incompetent
Take your pick!
There is a third option, Pandora. Perhaps law enforcement thought anti-abortion activists were not a threat, given their outrage over the DHS report listing the more extreme among them as threats.
Right, DD. The right wing christianist terrorists can’t be terrorists because, well, the right wing says they can’t be.
Interesting… I wonder if fear of being seen as repressive of conservative groups might have had a subliminal effect on the FBI.
“We bring this guy into custody and we have the whole VRWC screaming that it is now illegal to protest abortion…”
There is a third option, Pandora. Perhaps law enforcement thought anti-abortion activists were not a threat
Nope, that would be #2 – incompetent.
I think too much deference has been given to extreme rhetoric. I can’t believe how many statements I read that basically said murder is wrong, but that guy had it coming.
Yup, I’m sticking with my choices! Sorry, DD, but given the “pro-life’s” history of criminal activity law enforcement should have seen them as a threat.
I don’t think the Roeder case has anything to do with worrying about being seen as too whatever on rightwing terrorism.
Roeder is an individual with two convictions, one including possession of bomb-making materials. He had harassed Tiller by name on multiple occasions. What I am starting to think might have happened is this:
Tiller’s staff had to be ultra-sensitive to such threats. I’m not saying the threats weren’t real, but I wonder how many times a year, a month, or a week they picked up the phone regarding a threat–even by name. At some point, when nothing does happen for a long time–even if Dr. Tiller has been shot at years ago–there starts to be a lag time in the response. “Oh, it’s Nurse so-and-so with the threat of the week.” All it takes is one agent with a bad day or a single bad judgment call, and–employing occam’s razor–that’s a simpler explanation than institutional prejudice for which we have a lot of speculation and no hard evidence.
You have a point, Steve. However, given the rhetoric since Obama’s election I’m having trouble with the “bad day, etc.” excuse. Things were escalating and they knew it. Hell, we all knew it.
“Oh, it’s so and so” is a big part of law enforcements’ job. They dropped the ball… for whatever reason. They Failed – Big Time.
I agree, Steve. That is the most likely reasoning, based on what we know. That said, I wonder if the VRWC provides some cover for these guys in an indirect way. Fear of having your name dragged through the mud by Rush and Liddy is a strong disincentive.
turn him over to ted haggard
Did you know that Mark David Chapman was a New Christy Minstrels fan?
“Your perfect “24″ ticking time bomb scenario that neocons have wet dreams about. ”
Save that he is crazy…
“The scenario they use to justify shredding the Constitution.”
Dust off your civics textbook, foreign nationals don’t have constitutional rights.
“A terrorist in our custody who admits to plans of future terrorism in which innocent Americans will be killed or seriously injured?!?”
There are also plenty of murder suspects in our country who admit to being agents of the coming Martian invasion. Should we look into that as well?
“I suspect it is because Mr. Roeder is not Muslim, or at the very least, not a person of color.”
Grow up.
There are also plenty of murder suspects in our country who admit to being agents of the coming Martian invasion.
You’re a liar.
Dust off your civics textbook, foreign nationals don’t have constitutional rights.
Except that they do. Might want to read Plyler v. Doe.
Absolute liberal drivvel…..Waste of brain cells, as if there were any left in that liberal wait for my next hand-out head of yours…
Absolute spelling and punctuation FAIL. Stop writing on blogs, and get an education.