Deep Thought
From Balloon Juice:
When someone talks back to a cop in his own house, that’s disorderly conduct.
When people make death threats and start fights in public, that’s exercising their First Amendment rights.
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1.) Said incident with cop took place outside of home and included shouting and agressive behavior toward a law enforcement official
2.) Not a single death threat has been mentioned or fight started by any of the original townhall attendees. The “violence” has erupted only now that the SEIU and ACORN have sent left wing thugs in to attack those fighting against government control of healthcare.
1.) Said incident with cop took place outside of home and included shouting and agressive behavior toward a law enforcement official
on his property and when did being angry when you are being arrested after showing your id and the home is yours become a crime?
You are wrong on both counts. Photographs of the Gates incident clearly show him being escorted from the house in handcuffs. Obviously the incident occurred indoors, and thus in his own home. And the SEIU had two townhalls late last week in Tampa and St. Louis, yet death threats from you conservatives have been occurring for weeks. Indeed, Rep. Brad Miller received a death threat two weeks ago. And President Obama has been receiving 30 death threats a day since he became President.
Evan Q’s ignorance is showing as he forgets about the murders of Dr. George Tiller, Officer Eric Kelly, Officer Stephen Mayhle, Officer Paul Sciullo III, and Stephen T. Johns.
The right wing’s ability to project is amazing.
I thought the story is that the cop told Gates he would tell him his name if Gates stepped outside. Once he stepped outside (on his own porch) he was put in handcuffs.
Wingnuts don’t see any hypocrisy in thinking arresting Gates is o.k. and disrupting town meetings is o.k. too. I guess this is because they are authoritarians who believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.
1.) Gates refused to give the officer his name OR show him ID…he was OUTSIDE his home when he was arrested. The officer then retrieved Gates’ ID from the home and proceeded to take him down to be booked for disorderly conduct. INFACT, had Gates simply shown his ID and explained the situation all would have been solved without incident. Instead we have this comedy of errors. FYI: ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY does not = “I can be a dick to a cop”
2.) There were ZERO reports of violence until the left wing hit squads were sent into the fray period, end of story. These death threats you speak of have no confirmed origin so please keep you spewing to something near provable.
3.) How dare you claim that those incidents had anything to do with conservatives. AS I recall in each of those cases the disturbed individual was anti EVERY Party and anti-establishment/ anti-government. The fact that the people at these townhall events are ASKING THE GOVERNMENT TO FOLLOW ITS OWN CONSTITUTION seems to be lost on you left wing clowns.
“how dare you” lol!
fucking liar.
The fact that the people at these townhall events are ASKING THE GOVERNMENT TO FOLLOW ITS OWN CONSTITUTION seems to be lost on you left wing clowns.
The fact that the government IS following the Constitution is lost on you clowns.
You lost the election and the black guy won.
Now you wave the Constititution around in a baggie like it is some kind of magic amulet that will reverse the election.
There is no clause that forbids taxing the rich or helping the poor. Sorry if the Constitution isn’t everything you want it to be.
Obamaa is a natural born citizen. The Tenth Amendment is alive and well. There is no tyranny.
You are making it all up, sore loser.
He’s also got the facts wrong in the Gates case. Gates showed the officer two IDs, his Harvard ID and his driver’s license but the police did not leave.
There was violence and death threats before, liar.
and as soon as he saw that he was the homeowner instead of taking the guy in for saying meany things to the pwoor powice owficer, calmer heads could have prevailed. But no, instead, teach the guy a lesson.
Either way, it was the guys property and could have gone down as a simple mistake once they learned it was his home.
The “Astroturf” claim is a bit ludicrous when the side supporting Big Brother carries the professionally-printed signs that bear union bugs at the bottom.
Are lobbyists really hand-lettering signs?
Those of us who have been at this game for some time can tell rats by their smell.
I bet Debra Puglisi wished a cop came into her house one terrible day and started asking people for ID.
Actually, the Constitution does give you the right to be a “be a dick to a cop.” It is called free speech.
Ha Ha. Maria Evans: another conservative wishing for a police state.
Don’t you know A1 that free speech only applies to conservatives?
“I bet Debra Puglisi wished a cop came into her house one terrible day and started asking people for ID.”
Meaning what? We should do away with the Fourth Amendment? That because some people are criminals, it’s OK for the cops to treat everyone like a criminal?
No, my point is that there is a REASON cops ask people in a house for ID after they get a call about a potential break in.
Remember that part? The cops got a 911 call that people might be breaking into Mr. Gates home. Asking for ID was the responsible thing for the cop to do…
And what was the responsible thing to do after Gates provided his ID?
Maria, nobody thinks it was wrong for the cops to ask Gates for ID. I’m sure it was annoying for him but they did get a call about a break-in. What people are objecting to is that after Gates showed him two IDs, the police officer did not leave. He was offended because Gates called him a racist so he arrested Gates for disorderly conduct. I just don’t see how the arrest was justified even if Gates was yelling.
LOL, and poor Maria can’t understand that the teabaggers are now radioactive and no politician will be seen with them. Like George Sodini who couldn’t understand why women weren’t attracted to him – it’s the crazy.
anon,
It might also have something to do with their incoherent message of “no government healthcare don’t touch my Medicare.”
careful geezy…she may out yo real identiteee
anon, did you even watch the video she posted in that thread? I think you will actually enjoy it, given the subject-person that did the “dissing” and the whiney reasons why. So freaking typical.
Anyway, when will people realize one of the biggest issues in humanity today is an underlying, innate trait we have to pack-up with like-people, which, very unfortuantely, manifests itself as racism, whether overt or otherwise? Our challenge is to confront that and either rechannel it or eradicate it. We can’t do a damned thing until we are willing to stand up and look that crap directly in the eye and wear it down. One of the simplist things to at least get started is to step the frick out of the box.
“No, my point is that there is a REASON cops ask people in a house for ID after they get a call about a potential break in.”
Then why bring up poor Debra Puglisi? There was no cop on the porch during her ordeal.
Geezer, because, again, there is a REASON cops ask for ID.
And pandora, IMO everyone at that scene should have been more reasonable. This is what you get when egos collide.
This is what you get when egos collide.
Arrested?
No, Maria, this is what you get when you live in a police state.
Smitty, I do not understand how the Republicans could allow someone with thoughts like yours walk. I think anyone else would be happy to have you. Keep doing what it is you do. People will hate you along the way, but many more will RESPECT you!
a & a both men suffered the consequences, Gates was arrested and the cop was labeled a “racist”. Again, IMO, it was a clash of egos. Two men who couldn’t let it go.
Unfortunately Maria most black men who are unfairly arrested aren’t celebrities, and there are no consequences for the cop, not even of the little discomfort you described for Cowley.
Crowley.
~ Comment by anon on 10 August 2009 at 8:15 am:
LOL, and poor Maria can’t understand that the teabaggers are now radioactive and no politician will be seen with them. Like George Sodini who couldn’t understand why women weren’t attracted to him – it’s the crazy. ~
That post you link to starts like this, “Let’s just get to the point. Politicians were scarce yesterday.” Its about what pols were there, what they were doing, and how they were received, and one, who apparently dissed the organizers. It’s not an essay on WHY pols were or were not there because the answer for either is always “politics” of one kind or another. I was more interested in WHY the groups and people were there.
Maria: Nobody denies that cops have reason to ask for ID. But dragging the former Ms. Puglisi into it seems designed to add heat more than light.
Yes Maria I can see why you don’t want to talk about why the politicians weren’t there. And no, I am not promoting Protack to “politician.”
It’s because the Republicans, always extremists, have now crawled rightward and are chewing new fringe.
Not even Charlie Copeland, who spoke at the first teabagger, was willing to show his face with Saturday’s bunch.
Geezer no, it was designed to very clearly make a point.
The point being, again, that there is a REASON cops ask the people in a house for ID when they get a call about a possible break in. I could have also used the family from the book “IN COLD BLOOD” or one of the many other, more current examples of home invasions.
And incidentally, Ms. Puglisi travels around and speaks about what happened to her because she wants people to know about it. She doesn’t want her experience to be unmentionable, she wants it to be a LESSON FOR OTHERS. She also, unlike you, wouldn’t attach the word “poor” to herself.
anon for the record, Copeland was in Wyoming. I asked. And no, not Wyoming, Delaware. I asked, that, too.
Maria – no one has ever challenged that the cops had a right to ask him for ID except maybe an annoyed Dr. Gates. Probably Dr. Gates should have just got the ID and quietly let the cop leave him alone, but we have all been there. He was pissed off and he said bad words to the cop. Honestly, tough shit on the cop. Walk away and say “Have a good night Dr. Gates.”
Instead, he had to show Dr. Gates who was in charge.
It’s a dreadful point, Maria. There’s a lot of middle ground between being arrested in your own house and being a victim of mass murder. I suggest you try to find some.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates3.html
Maybe you should read the police report. It seems like he came out to his porch and was causing a public scene. The arresting officer was not officer Crowley who had entered the premise.
LG, I blame both men equally. Mr. Gates should have understood that the cop was doing his job by asking for ID and not shouted “racist” at him. The cop should have just “walked away” once he saw the ID. IMO it was two men who were too…full of their own inflated self importance maybe…to let the situation diffuse gracefully.
Geezer, point noted, though it won’t be taken. But thanks anyway.
“Maybe you should read the police report.”
Maybe you should learn that just because a cop put it in his report doesn’t make it true.
Maybe you should read the police report. It seems like he came out to his porch and was causing a public scene. The arresting officer was not officer Crowley who had entered the premise.
on his prop-er-tee!? dis black dude, causing a public seen on hiz propotee!? Oh lodeee, a seen, arrest dat man fo causin a seen on his propottee.
I nowz where I live dey always arrested dudes sittin on dey stoop playing with de bones. dem boyz is cauzin a sceene and dat’s illegal acordian to David A.
yo is crazee too
Smitty, I do not understand how the Republicans could allow someone with thoughts like yours walk. I think anyone else would be happy to have you. Keep doing what it is you do. People will hate you along the way, but many more will RESPECT you!
Keep this up and I will suddenly like Mondays. 😉
I’ll tell you part of the reason…partisans generally don’t even want to consider compromise and my “failure” is that I look for common ground like it was buried treasure. In the times that it can’t be found, then it’s about breaking down the disagreements into smaller pieces that the opposing sides can empathize with. Doesn’t mean they have to change, but understanding is a huge part of the battle.
Then, you have what led me to leaving comapred to what I said here (the 8:37AM comment): it’s pretty much bypassed. Gotta work on that.
Most importantly, THANKS! That was a cool note for an otherwise blah-Monday.
Geezer,
Conservatives like Maria almost always side with the police, and that is one reason that we are living in a police state where people can be arrested in their own homes for not answering questions or even producing identification. Conservatives can’t stand it when individuals exercise their constitutional rights unless, of course, it is their right to own guns.
We are living in a country where people are tortured at will by police with strong electrical shocks using Tasers. We are living in a country where people can be imprisoned without trial or charges. We are living in a country that arrests people for the words on their T-shirts or the bumper stickers on their cars. And yet, virtually inevitably, the conservatives side with the police. One of the wingnuts that writes here regularly, “Republican David” even sided with North Korea for imprisoning the American journalists that were just freed.
Two centuries ago, it was the conservatives who were on the side of the British King and against democracy and freedom. Not much has changed since then.
Conservatives like Maria almost always side with the police
(The following comment is a response to the above and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with Maria’s comments…)
I always wondered about conservatives who always side with the police, and also mutter darkly about using their Second Amendment rights to correct the nation’s politics.
They probably jack off imagining themselves hunting down scared business-suited blue-state Congressmen like rabbits.
But when they start shooting, who do they think they will be shooting at, and who will be shooting back? Police, that’s who.
A1: I guess I didn’t realize Maria was so far to the right. After all, conservatives usually side with big businesses, but when she looked into the situation surrounding the Indian River power plant, she quickly realized who the bad actor was. All I was suggesting is that, while no doubt anyone being victimized by a crime wishes a police officer would intervene, it has little bearing on Gatesgate, other than representing an absurdly over-the-top bit of diversion. I originally thought this was just emotion hitting the Send button, but if she really thinks it’s germane, well…
people are tortured at will by police with strong electrical shocks using Tasers
Should be classified as attempted murder.
Attempted murder means that you are trying to use deadly force not non lethal force. It means that you intend to cause death, not intentionally avoid using deadly force.
This is what passes for deep thoughts over here. Wow.
I’ll play.
No, it is a means which saves lives and gives police a tool to avoid using weapons or holds which are likely to result in death or serious injury. Tasers save lives of officers and suspects. They should be regulated better in some jurisdictions to avoid abuse. They are not harmless toys and should not be used as such.
Geezer:
~ “Conservatives like Maria almost always side with the police…” ~
Maria:
~ “LG, I blame both men equally.” ~
Yeah, I took sides. Sheesh.
Why should it be attempted murder? If the cops wanted to kill you they’d shoot you with a gun not a tazer.
That above comment was anon, not Geezer.
Maria, there was no justification for the arrest. But I guess you’re a “blame the victim” type of person.
anonone:
~ “Maria, there was no justification for the arrest. But I guess you’re a “blame the victim” type of person.” ~
Maria:
~ “The cop should have just “walked away” once he saw the ID.” ~
Again, sheesh.
Actually, Maria, I agree with you on Gatesgate: It’s a male ego thing. Or maybe just an ego thing.
Maria:
“I blame both men equally” is blaming the victim.
Sheesh to you.
anonone I did not “justify the arrest” in fact, it’s clear that I think the arrest should have never happened. And yes, I blamed BOTH men. I stand by that.
So, if not the arrest, what do you “blame” Gates for, specifically?
iz maria channelin Ann coulter? Diz gates need to nose his place amung da lawman? Arounz da poleece a man needz to know when to beez quiet!
Gates, according to the police report, followed the cop out of the house yelling that the cop was a “racist”. Inciting a cop is like poking a bear with a stick, regardless of your color the results may suck.
What do you think that the cop said to Gates to make him react that way? I am sure the police report says that the cop didn’t incite him at all.
BTW, the polar bears are usually the meanest. 🙂
LG are you saying that the cop made racist remarks to Gates that I have yet to see reported?
I am saying that it wouldn’t be in the police report.
Maria, this is a can of worms. The police report is factually inaccurate on several points as documented the day that the audio evidence was released. Subsequently, the young lady who made the call made a statement to the press which further verified that Crowley falsified his report. Sometimes, humans ‘hear what they want to hear’ and I don’t say whether Crowley was deliberately lying but he certainly wasn’t presenting the facts.
I don’t have time to reiterate them here but it is all googlable.
In the end it was two people on power trips. Frankly, the day I can’t have control when standing in my own home is the day that America is broken and we have a police state.
None of us were there. But if you noticed, the day the police released the audio accounts (911 call and Crowley’s corresponding to HQ by phone) was the same day they stood together to say…nothing to see here folks, walk on by…it’s over. They sure as hell hoped it was over.
Cops are peace keepers as much as anything. Crowley let his ego get in the way when he should have stepped off and defused.
Smitty – thanks for replying. You should consider that you ramble on sometimes and that can be a factor. I do think you have something to offer and people would be better for it. If you ever return to blogging, make sure word gets out. You have a tolerance that too few are willing to stand on. You made a good comment earlier today, but as you said, it was missed. You and LG would make a good blog combo. Apologies to the others here.
Maria, you still did not answer my question. You blame Gates for what, specifically? Getting himself arrested for speaking his mind on his own property?
@Respect:
Mom? 😛
Might be my Mom…
Do they know each other? Of course, the thought of my mother being able to do more than email, solitaire, or minesweeper on a computer would shock me.