The Personal is Not the Political. The Political is Not the Personal.
We all confuse the two. Myself included. Because we feel the political is personal. And how can it not be? What is argued over in the halls and chambers of our political institutions very much affects our personal lives. Thus, we view politics personally and passionately. And it is very easy for judge those who disagree with you politically as personal enemies, as those who you would wish ill upon.
President Obama today in eulogizing the late great Senator Ted Kennedy:
We can still hear his voice bellowing through the Senate chamber, face reddened, fist pounding the podium, a veritable force of nature, in support of health care or workers’ rights or civil rights. And yet, while his causes became deeply personal, his disagreements never did. While he was seen by his fiercest critics as a partisan lightning rod, that is not the prism through which Ted Kennedy saw the world, nor was it the prism through which his colleagues saw him. He was a product of an age when the joy and nobility of politics prevented differences of party and philosophy from becoming barriers to cooperation and mutual respect – a time when adversaries still saw each other as patriots.
The implication is, and I think we can all agree on this, that we are longer in that time. And we are worse for it. As Americans. As Human Beings. Yes, there has always been vehement and vicious disagreements among us as Americans through our history. Yes, there has always been mean personal attacks between political opponents, from the feud between Jefferson and Adams to the song about the illegitimate child of Grover Cleveland to the fights between the Kennedys and Nixon. Yes, throughout our history we have had firebrands riling up crowds with lies and hate, from Father Coughlin in the 1930’s to today. What we have lost sight of is our mutual humanity.
If you want proof of this watch these wonderful remarks at Senator Kennedy’s wake by his friend, Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, and ask yourself…. would it be possible for Newt Gingrich to give such a speech about Bill Clinton? Or Sarah Palin for Barack Obama? Or vice versa in both cases? Orrin Hatch is a personal and political opposite to Ted Kennedy as much as Gingrich is to Clinton and as Palin is to Obama. Today, it is hard to imagine the mutual respect, admiration and even friendship existing among our leaders today and in the recent past, on both sides. Perhaps we just don’t see it on the front lines, but it surely feels that none of us partisans feel the other side is human. We certainly do not view the other as patriots. I am sure the reason for that is the rhetoric we hear, like seeing critics of a policy proposal by a President they oppose literally praying for his death.
What I will pray for is that we return to the bonds we see below, between two men who could not be more different politically and personally yet who realized that they are completely alike because they are human beings with hopes and fears, joys and troubles, families and friends.
That is what I pray for today when we say goodbye to Ted Kennedy.
The Delaware Dem wrote:
While I’m sure that there are a few such people, you’d be hard-pressed to come up with a really large number of them. I’d guess hat we could have found an equally large, if not larger, number praying for the death of President Bush a couple of years ago.
Me, I pray for his defeat in the 2012 election!
There were scenes in the “political” side of the funeral Mass today, with Presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter, all acting perfectly polite and kind to each other. Former President Carter was a little less involved, but, then again, he’s nearly 85 years old. (The elder President Bush, who is 85, was in poor health and unable to attend.) There was an animated, and to all appearances friendly, chat between Secretary of State Clinton and former President Bush, as well as one between Mrs Clinton and Mrs Bush.
Speedy recovery to Bush 41 (and GOP Rep. Denny Rehberg of Montana who I think had a boating accident). I never pray or wish for anyone’s ill health or passing.
Great post Delaware Dem. I’ve been thinking about the negative partisan crap that goes on nationally and specifically the pissing matches that go on here.
Neither side is innocent in this battle, though I find it ironic, with all the heightened negative rhetoric of today, that Dana goes back to Bush’s term. Yes, some liberals behaved badly back then, but it pales in comparison to the organized hatred and shouted lies which are going on today.
I do tire of the lies espoused by the conservatives that visit Delaware Liberal and I must work to ferret out their lies, but leave the personal shit aside. I shall do this because, simply, I am that awesome.
Hatch can say all the pretty words he wants about the dead, but that doesn’t erase the blood that forever soaks his hands or the venom that still drips from his teeth.
Say all the kind words you want about Hatch and his ilk. I’ll remember the thousands and thousands of children have been blown to pieces or maimed beyond repair in the wars he advocated and supported and that Kennedy fought valiantly to prevent. Tell their parents, their brothers, and their sisters that politics isn’t personal.
DD, you wax nostalgic for a day that never was.
And an ethic that was certainly never practiced by Jabba the Drunk (D-What Dead Girl In What Car Under What Bridge?).
You are a Fucking Idiot, RWR.
Looks like somebody forgot to take his cialis.
DD you are an idiot animal. You gave up your humanity when you became a loony leftist traitor. Seriously, I disagree with Annone. I enjoyed this post especially the Hatch eulogy and your analysis of it.
I do not think you are being nostalgic. Does anyone really think some tirade like the fake one that started this comment in anyway helps us solve the very real problems facing this nation? Sometimes liberals actually have a good point. I will never know that if I spend all my time dishing out invective.
I believe as well that we can pick up the best of the other side without giving up the best in ourselves if we start out with an attitude of civility.
Good post, numb skull. 🙂 I am sorry, it is hard to resist kidding you, of all people on this one. It took a lot of courage for you to say what you did. I respect it greatly.
“We all confuse the two. Myself included. Because we feel the political is personal”. –Delaware Dem
Hey Rhymes With Slime,
I wander if Laura “Pickles” Bush was sitting in the pews next to her sociopathic husband thinking about the person she killed with an automobile?
Well, since you want to go there.
Laura Bush wasn’t drunk. Teddy was.
Laura Bush didn’t neglect to notify the authorities about the accident. Teddy did.
Laura Bush was a teenager. Teddy wasn’t.
Laura Bush wasn’t partying with single women with a pregnant wife at home. Teddy was.
Laura Bush didn’t try to get a cousin to take the rap for the accident. Teddy did.
Laura Bush didn’t have a long and storied history of reckless and dangerous driving violations. Teddy did.
Laura Bush didn’t jokes about the death caused in the accident. Teddy did.
RWR has just great timing, if only to prove my point in this post.
Very insightful post, Delaware Dem.
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Question: Where did they hide the pod?
Pod?
Very obscure reference to “The Invasion of the Body Snatchers”. Aliens grew pods that grew to resemble real people and hid them near their human targets. When the humans fell asleep, the pods took over their bodies and minds.
Seriously, nice post.
anonone wrote:
Yeah, uh huh, right.
I remeber about a decade ago, when Senators Alan Simpson (R-WY) and Kennedy had a brief radio show, a point-counterpoint type of thing that lasted only a minute or two. They argued their points, but they were perfectly civil. Senator Hatch is the same way. Other than a couple of senators — Barbara Boxer comes to mind here — they are all very friendly with one another on a personal level.
After several afternoon drinks, Dick Cheney shot Harry Whittington, putting 200 pellets into his body, including one near the heart that caused Whittington to have a heart attack.
Hatch is excitable and can be often-putting when his partisan juices boil – I wanted to strangle him during the Thomas hearings – but he has a fundamental decency in his approach to public service and colleagues.
PS – Jerry just played the 6:10 version of Stay in My Corner. And dig this:
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/22ae0466-f264-49f0-89da-fa4feb29c0b.jpg
Civil and polite killers are killers, nonetheless.
And Anonone, you are another example of why I wrote this post. You watch the Hatch videos and you say he had blood dripping from his teeth??
Jesus Christ.
No, venom.
Pretty words at Kennedy’s funeral don’t make up for the deaths and misery he has caused during his Senate career. I’ve seen way too much hatred and meanness from his lips to be fooled by this act.
It’s 8:27 p.m. EDT. The body’s in the ground.
The right wing officially needs to find another liberal Democrat to complaint about, harass, send death threats to, and raise funds in fear of. They need to find another Democrat to lie about, scream at, and curse in their oh-so-christian way.
Meanwhile, however, they’ll keep their Medicare benefits, get ADA rights for their ADHD and autistic children and grandchildren, encourage their spawn to vote at 18, transfer their old cell phone telephone numbers to their new carriers without penalty, get COBRA benefits when they get laid off, take medical leave to care for their newborns, and enjoy the benefits of net neutrality, including here on DelawareLiberal. They’ll celebrate their daughters’ victories at soccer games and pop champagne when their daughters become partners in big law firms. And when that no good bastard their niece married abandons the family, they’ll happily put her kids on SCHIP.
Yeah, Kennedy had way too much hatred and meanness.
God bless him.
They need to find another Democrat to lie about, scream at, and curse in their oh-so-christian way.
First they will have to find another Democrat as consistently passionate and effective as Teddy.
Us Democrats are looking for that guy too.
Progressive Mom,
To clarify, I was writing about Hatch’s “hatred and meanness,” not Kennedy.
DD is right. Big picture is important. Sure, Hatch [and every other Republican except Chafee and 6 courageous House Members] voted for the war. Also voting for the war were Henry Waxman, Bob Wexler, Sanford Bishop, Ed Markey, Marty Meehan, Carolyn Maloney, Joe Hoeffel, Patrick Kennedy – and in the Senate, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Max Cleland, Tom Harkin, Chuck Schumer and others. They made a mistake – a big mistake – but they don’t have “blood dripping from their teeth.”
Point well proven in the comments, DD.
I wish that the personal attacks and civility would return, but alas, it seems that we as a society have turned the corner and left civility far behind in the rear view mirror.
Nice sentiment DD, and maybe it was that way in the easy days prior to the constant campaigning mode congresscritters are subjected to nowadays.
But here’s a point I’d like to make. Once the adversary removes him or herself from the realm of rational thought and discourse, such as Birthers, Deathers, etc., the civility of the matter should no longer be a concern.
The concern should be the total destruction of these faux arguments, along with the credibility of its authors.
It is exactly the type of attitude that Del Dem is espousing that is currently losing the healthcare debate. Putting “bipartisanship” and “personal friendships” and being all nicey-nice with each other over fighting for the interests of the people who voted for them is one of the huge problems with Obama and the Senate Dems.
And, Von Cracker, your point is well-taken, but it is bigger than “Birthers, Deathers, etc.” It is also about supporting wars based on lies, torture, denial of equal rights, failure to perform oversight, spying on Americans, allowing perjury by officials over and over again, and on and on and on… Those folks deserve no quarter.
That is the record of Hatch.
So isn’t it sweet that Hatch recognizes that his one of his dead Senate colleagues was a human being “with hopes and fears, joys and troubles, families and friends.” Too bad he couldn’t, and can’t, recognize the same for the millions of people outside the senate to whom the policies that he has supported have brought misery and death.
It is ironic that a blogger calling himself “Del Dem” keeps cheering for the return of the some kind of reasonable “sane” republican, a political creature that never existed. He is the mouse cheering for the cat to return in the hope that this time he won’t be eaten.
It doesn’t work that way. Never has and never will. The only way to win is to stop bringing only knives and white flags to gun fights. And we need better Dems that will do just that.
“DD is right. Big picture is important. Sure, Hatch [and every other Republican except Chafee and 6 courageous House Members] voted for the war. Also voting for the war were Henry Waxman, Bob Wexler, Sanford Bishop, Ed Markey, Marty Meehan, Carolyn Maloney, Joe Hoeffel, Patrick Kennedy – and in the Senate, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Max Cleland, Tom Harkin, Chuck Schumer and others.””
297-133 in the House and 77-23 in a Senate led by Democrats. The Iraq War Resolution was not only supported by Democrats, it wouldn’t have passed without Democrats.
Partisan bickering? Remember Hamilton and Burr?
Hell, remember the three-way bickering of Hamilton, Jefferson, and Adams.
anonone, I’m trying to figure out: just how many people did Senator hatch kill? It’s rather humorous that, on a post by DD calling for civility toward dead political leaders with whom we might disagree, you’d decide to spew venom — your word — at a Republican senator who disagreed with most of what Senator Kennedy believed, but still had nothing but kind words for him.
Well, at least we know that when a Republican says less than charitable words concerning former President Carter when he goes to his eternal reward, you’ll have no complaints.
But Jefferson and Adams were lifelong friends.
As Maria Evans noted, the Democrats controlled the Senate when the Iraq war resolution was passed. Without the consent of the Senate leadership, including Majority Leader Tom Daschle, it couldn’t have even come to a vote in the Senate.
Mr Shields: Not precisely. They were bitter enemies for a good bit of the time following the revolution, beginning with Mr Adams’ presidency. They reconciled later in life, and carried on a rather celebrated correspondence for many years, but to call them “lifelong friends” would be inaccurate.
Thanks, Dana, for saving me from making that point regarding Jefferson and Adams. The two fell out during the Washington Administration, and VP Jefferson spend much of the Adams presidency trying to ensure that Adams failed to accomplish his goals. I encourage you to read Founding Brothers for an excellent discussion of their relationship.
As for Adams and Hamilton, the actions of Hamilton were so extreme that Adams considered turning the Alien and Sedition Acts on Hamilton and his allies, not just the rabid Jeffersonians.
Dana,
Anyone who voted for the Iraq War – including dems and including Biden – is responsible for the thousands of deaths and misery that followed. Yes, the Senate had a slim majority of Dems, but the repubs installed a President who was lying through his fangs to everybody.
If the SCOTUS hadn’t stolen the election for Bush and Gore was the President, there would have been no Iraq War.
And, yes, I’ll have no complaints.
Interestingly enough, the one person to whom anonone does not wish to assign blame for the Iraq War is Saddam Hussein. It is nice to see what his definition of “America First” is!
But then again, he refuses to accept that black Republicans qualify as African-Americans, so I’m not surprised by his warped position on the Iraq War.
Oh, and if Mayor Daley hadn’t engaged in massive vote fraud to swing Illinois to JFK in 1960, Ted Kennedy would have never been senator.
“Iraq War is Saddam Hussein”
Did he have weapons?
Did the US have faulty intelligence it used to “sell” a war based on profits and fearmongering?
Answer the questions, please.
You’ll get no arguing from me with A1 on this topic!
Rhymes With Spigot,
1) Saddam Hussein was telling the truth when he said that Iraq did not have any WMD.
2) Saddam Hussein and Iraq never attacked us nor were they capable of attacking us.
3) We had Saddam Hussein and Iraq’s military completely contained since the Gulf War in the early 90’s.
4) Ha, ha.
And neither Hussein or Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.
1) Saddam Hussein was telling the truth when he said that Iraq did not have any WMD.
**Except when he like to make Iran think he did, or when he actually used VX gas on his own citizens. Except for those times, yeah, he didn’t. Except for those times.
2) Saddam Hussein and Iraq never attacked us nor were they capable of attacking us.
**Except when they fired back when we attempted to drive them from Kuwait, when nearly all of the world agreed with us. Except for that time, yeah, they never attacked us.
3) We had Saddam Hussein and Iraq’s military completely contained since the Gulf War in the early 90’s.
**Except for their regular violation of no-fly zones and routine targeting of UN-sanctioned patrols. Except for those times, yeah, we had them contained.
I guess there’s a reason you are only 12monkeys. You have alot more typing to do to get to something that is a real answer to the questions posed.
Ummm…no.
I’ve adequately addressed anonone’s blather.
Thanks!
This thread shows that anonone can do many things well, including piercing analysis, but being a US Senator wouldn’t play to his strengths.
Some conservatives shriek about abortion with similar fervor. The grownups among them will not let this prevent them from achieving other goals by working with pro-choice colleagues. Rude Pundit says it more pungently:
“A man is willing to embrace his enemies. Yesterday, Ron Reagan, Jr. had his mother on his radio show to talk about how much the Reagans loved Ted Kennedy. Kennedy and Nancy Reagan were allies on stem cell research funding, but the former first lady talked about how she and her husband were dear friends with Kennedy. Kennedy worked with Orrin Hatch, Richard Lugar, both George Bushes, and anyone he could to accomplish his goals. That’s called politics. Compromise was a willingness for both sides to move. When George W. Bush dicked him over on No Child Left Behind funding, Kennedy had to know that a tide had shifted in a way that was going to make the entire process of legislating more rancorous and difficult. The political nature of the nation was moving into entrenchment, which was not how Ted Kennedy functioned.”
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/ted-kennedy-there-went-man-finally-we.html
Being civil doesn’t mean being ineffectual. My lawyer, who died last week, won an award for civility from the Delaware Supreme Court. He could also wield the knife ruthlessly while he was being civil.
Robert Byrd is a man of the Senate. So were Bill Bradley, Hugh Scott, Mac Mathias, Harry Byrd Sr., Jacob Javits, Abe Ribicoff. They could do battle on an issue on Tuesday, then when another issue caused them to choose up different sides, work with their erstwhile adversaries on Wednesday. Those guys wouldn’t hesitate to do something like using Reconciliation to achieve health care reform if that’s what it would take. Byrd would do a bone-jarring tackle from the blind side, cause a fumble, then help the ball-carrier to his feet – but he wouldn’t spear or facemask.
Civility means something if it’s accompanied by focus, firm negotiation, compelling policy argument and willingness to do battle over principle. Conversely, willingness to do battle, in a small body like the Senate, means nothing if the combatants demonize each other.
problem with anonone’s list is it starts with a fallacy.
Hussain did not say that he had no WMD’s, the opposite is true:
he failed to disclose all of his stockpiles to the UN
he interfered with the UN inspectors, eventually throwing them out of the country
“Sadam had no WMD’s” is an empty talkingpoint. The fact is he had far fewer undeclared facilities and stockpiles than the CIA and the UN (Hans Blix) believed.
“Those guys wouldn’t hesitate to do something like using Reconciliation to achieve health care reform if that’s what it would take”
Robert Byrd has publicly opposed using Reconciliation to sneak Obamacare through the senate.
Correction noted, thanks. Byrd feels strongly about the rule that bears his name. I would rephrase to say that Reconciliation has the support of many who adhere to the standards of civility. Whether we can get to 51 is another matter.
Anoni and 12monkeys,
Your facts are just wrong.
Prior to the U.S. attack, Iraq reported to the U.N. that they had no WMD. None. Zero. They were telling the truth.
Sec. Powell reported to the U.N. that Iraq had WMD. He was deliberately lying.
Bush wouldn’t allow a U.N Security Council vote after promising he would because he knew he would lose it.
Prior to the attack, Iraq gave the U.N. inspectors free and unfettered access to all Iraq, including the palaces.
Bush, not Saddam, told the U.N. inspectors to leave just before he launched his unprovoked attack on Iraq.
sorry anonone, I don’t know how to respond to your fantasy world.
You don’t know how to respond because you can’t respond, anoni.
Well, you can’t unkill Saddam and you can’t uninvade Iraq, so suck on that, anonone.
I’ve got $20 that says you get bent over the piano bench a few more times before you sail on. There’s nothing you can do about. You’re a cornhole target for life.
Try being the corn instead….so much more fun >=D
dude, just go ahead and get it over with, 12.
why you so afraid?