Breaking: Carper Votes Against Rockfeller Public Option –UPDATED
Via Steve Benen:
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) proposed a robust public option, with funding tied to Medicare rates. The final vote was not close — every Republican on the panel voted against it, as did Democratic Sens. Max Baucus (Mont.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Tom Carper (Del.), Blanche Lincoln (Ark.), and Bill Nelson (Fla.). Of those, Carper’s opposition came as something of a surprise, as did Nelson’s vote.
The final vote, then, was eight to 15.
The Schumer Amendment is coming up for a vote — and his amendment adds a Public Option similar to the one in the HELP bill. Not tied to Medicare rates, but rates negotiated as if it were a separate insurance company.
Also via Benen– the Schumer vote is done:
The committee just voted, and defeated Schumer’s measure, 10 to 13. Two Dems who voted against the Rockefeller Amendment — Bill Nelson and Tom Carper — switched to support this approach, but Baucus, Conrad, and Lincoln still voted with the GOP.
So Carper did finally vote for a Public Option. Baucus is still shilling for his co-ops and the other two need to lose their seats.
Ok democrats….your senator has voted against our interests and for the insurance companies to continue to steal, rob and deny our citizens the public option. Now what will the democratic party in Delaware do about it? What will the Delaware AFL-CIO, or Mike Begato or any of the unions?
We must find a real citizen who will work for the interest of our citizens to run against this corporate whore?
This has to spell the end for Carper. It must. Starting tomorrow, I will be doing everything in my (limited) power to see that Sen. Tom Carper is not re-elected in 2012.
I’d take Mike Castle over Carper. Can’t we switch them? Give Carper to the republicans and get Castle on our side. He’s a way better representative than this corporate whore.
How about it, Mike? I know health care is an issue you care about when the rethuglicans aren’t browbeating you into submission. And you’re pretty good on the environment, too. Why don’t you switch sides?
Pop the champagne bottles baby! The health insurance industry is going to get:
Mandated coverage bringing 20-30 million new clients into health coverage
No competition or real regulation of any kind
A slap on the wrist for denying pre-existing conditions
One can only hope the democrats suffer massive losses in 2010. I now believe they will. By failing to deliver they have sealed their fate. While the health industry is celebrating, they should start writing checks to the republicans for 2010 to secure their future profits.
Beth: do you actually believe Castle would have voted FOR the public option. We have two republicans Castle and Carper. Both need to go~~as neither work for the citizens of Delaware but for the bankster/gangsters, credit card companies, big pharma and the insurance industry.
I like Carper. My entire family will vote for him.
Let’s remember that the vote was within the Senate Finance Committee (the most conservative of the five penning bills). This is not the final bill–it is one of five.
Let’s not write the public option’s obituary just yet.
annonie’s a poli-tard if he/she/it thinks it’s a done deal…
lol
but what would you expect from a fool who wishes for shitty outcomes for fellow americans in order to stroke the political ego.
I just got info from Democracy for America that said Carper voted for the Public Option. What’s up?
carper is low-hanging fruit in a primary, btw….
I guess Carper listened to his constituents.
Carper voted for the Schumer plan, which is public option, but will cost more than the Rockefeller plan because the reimbursement rate will be higher. That probably means the cost of the plan will be higher to either the customer or the taxpayer. The vote will make the Christiana Care people happy.
As for Delaware, Carper can at least claim that he supported a public option plan. If we can get the Schumer plan passed on the Senate floor, then Carper will survive, methinks.
Carper is trying to have it both ways. He’s gambling that the public will be too stupid to see his duplicity. In the past that’s been true, but no more.
Riddle me this, Batman. Does anybody really think that Carper would have voted for the Schumer Plan if his vote ensured its passage? Of course not. Just another weaselly Carper CYA move for which he received advance dispensation from the insurance industry, who couldn’t give two bleeps about a throwaway ‘yes’ vote.
It is time for his undistinguished political career to come to an end. Had he any conscience, which he’s proven he doesn’t, he’d resign for that golden parachute lobbying position already waiting for him. Instead, he’s lobbying for them while still on the public dole.
People writing off the public option are premature. The Finance committee and HELP committee bills must be reconciled in the Senate and the 3 versions of the House bill must also be reconciled. As we’ve thought all along, the big fight will be in the conference committee.
Here’s TPM’s take on the fight for the public option. The basic point – the burden is on the public option foes. They will have to decide whether to filibuster the bill or not.
I guess Carper listened to his constituents.
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No…when has he ever?
I am with ‘Bulo on this one. The vote was ‘safe’. His floor vote and cooperation will be what counts for Delaware DEMs.
I was heading up to Wilmington for a meeting listening to WDEL.
Haven’t heard Allan Loudell screw up the news that badly in a long time. He totally ignored THE NEWS that Carper voted FOR the public option in Schumer’s amendment. Allan kept repeating to his listeners at the news hour, long after these votes were registered, that Carper voted against the public option. Loudell never mentioned that there were two public option amendments and that Carper did vote for one of them. D’OH!
It was weird to say the least. WHAT UP, Allan???
I didn’t hear Allan’s report, but the report I saw that reported on the second vote was around 4PM, so perhaps that info didn’t make a broadcast cut off. Don’t know.
But Carper’s vote was weasly and now we have to ask him if he plans to filabuster a bill than has a Public Option in it. UI is right though — it isn’t over yet (but has been dealt a blow) and there is no reason to throw in the towel.
Throwing in the towel on Carper is a job worth doing, however.
Delaware deserves someone who will represent the interests of the people over the interests of the insurance companies. Carper is so far removed from our lives….he has no clue what it is like to be a business person, a worker, or retired living on modest means. Delaware deserves a smarter, younger senator.
From Politico:
Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.) is quietly talking with the Senate Democratic leadership and Finance Committee members about an alternative to both the government insurance option and the nonprofit insurance cooperative.
In a one-page document he began circulating last week, Carper suggests giving states the option of creating a competitor to private insurers, which could include a government plan, a network of co-ops, or a large purchasing pool modeled after the revered Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan.
It is a variation on Sen. Olympia Snowe’s proposal to create a public option “trigger” – which has appealed to Democratic leaders and a White House still eager for bipartisan support. Snowe, a Maine Republican, filed an amendment establishing a “non-profit government corporation” in any state in which affordable coverage was not available to at least 95 percent of residents. She has not introduced it at the markup.
In an interview Tuesday, Carper suggested his idea was getting a close look from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who will decide how to merge competing bills from the Senate Finance Committee and the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.
“If we report a bill out of committee, I hope it at least includes the co-op,” Carper said. “Then, as we attempt to merge that legislation with the HELP committee bill, a good compromise between where the HELP bill is with the public option and where we are with coops would be along the lines of what I just mentioned to you. It may occur during the merger of the two bills.”
Carper said he would not offer his proposal during the Finance Committee markup. He began circulating his ideas last week “to encourage people to start thinking about different ideas,” Carper said.
Quick note on Snowe’s proposal. Can anyone figure out what, “in any state in which affordable coverage was not available to at least 95 percent of residents,” means. How it would that be determined, who would determine it. It seems Snowe and Carper are playing shell games to avoid the tough decision, while protecting the insurance companies and pretending they are offering alternatives to real reform.
anon,
Ezra Klein explains the Snowe trigger amendment. It’s pretty weak.
So, I think there is a way to make co-ops good, if they can band together. But if we go back to Baucus-style co-ops (50 state co-ops that can’t band together. I guess co-ops are probably better than nothing at all from the SFC bill. The important thing is to get a bill out of that committee. The fight will then move to what is introduced on the Senate floor and then amendments would also be offered on the Senate floor.
I think the real fight is to make sure that no Democrats vote with the Republican filibuster. With Carper and Nelson’s vote for a weaker P.O. there are 49 known “yes” votes.
If you do not have the purchasing power of 50 states, co-ops have no chance of ever being that much more competitive with private insurance. And co-ops have to clear the very big hurdle of start up costs. Carper, et al are working out a deal where they’ve created the next ethanol deal or even the Medicare Part D deal — massive subsidies to an industry that will never let them go. And will never have an incentive to be competitive. Never. The Medicare Part D triggers never got tripped, even though Medicare patients still do not get the prices that a bulk purchaser would get. And even dual eligible patients (who used to get the cheaper Medicaid rates) pay the higher Medicare ones.
Tom Carper is just looking for a way to lock in a revenue stream for insurance companies — and lock them in in a way it will be very hard to get them to control costs or even to compete.
He needs to go.
I agree Carper needs to go. Where is Delaware’s Ned Lamont? Seriously, I ask this. It will take a lot of money to defeat Tom Carper, so a self-financing candidate is probably necessary. I guess I better go buy that lottery ticket, then.
It appears the dems are playing games, pretending they want a PO, but, well, you know, geee, gosh darn, golly, we just don’t have the 60 votes to stop those evil republicans from fillibustering the legislation.” Who cares about the republicans? You don’t need 60 votes. Blaming the republicans for health care reform when you have the WH and Congress isn’t going to cut it, though we can be certain it will be part of the explanation. The fact it is being floated so early should be cause for concern.
But most people are smart enough to realize the insurance industry is running this show. If I were them, I would too. A PO forces competition and accountability. Who wants that in a capitalistic society? Certainly not the banks or the insurance industry.
Regardless, the dems are coming dangerously close to falling apart. It is not too early to begin speculating on what might happen should there be a weakened HC bill, or heaven forbid no bill at all. The latter scenerio is inlikely, but not out of the question. Politically, a line was drawn in the sand over the PO. In the end, it will be hard to convince the public of meaningful HCR without it. Ironically, that might be what saves it.
But if the PO is not included and the end result is a weakened HC bill, other initiatives will be dead. The rift between the left and center right in the party will be intense. You can forget about party unity. The weight of failure on HCR, a central plank of the Obama Administration and rank and file democrats, will be overwhelming. So will the feeling of betrayal. Obama’s platform will come to a screeching halt and so will Congress. If that scenerio plays out, 2010 will be a bloodbath.
The thing is that they probably do have 60 votes for clouture. The 60 votes thing is a red herring at this point. Harry Reid ought to be able to deliver 60 votes for cloture, then they can vote as they like.
There will be a reform bill. The real question right now is if it will have a Public Option or No.
The democrats will try and sell Coops and triggers as equal to or better than the Public Option. That’s their next move.
I think what’s left right now is the left of the party against the conservative wing. It’s a contest to see who will blink first. ConservaDems have more to lose, since most of them are in swing districts but I don’t know if they understand that no reform means they lose their seats for sure.
anon 29 September 2009,
Have you been hanging out with Protack? You sound just like him.
UI is right. This is far from being over.
In addition to keeping pressure on Senator Carper for the public option, we need to keep up the pressure on the Republicans. They are being petulant and irresponsible, both in Dover and in DC. What a bunch of cry-babies. If they can’t have everything their own way then screw America and you and me. Our citizens are watching and they will remember next year.
Feel free to beat on Sen Carper but most of the blame lies with the President who changed themes too many times. Senators like Carper who are wedded to the process of politics and not to any firm principle will always look for compromise.
However, as the Politico article reports there might be a better way (state vs Federal). Again, our Delacare plan has all the goodness of a public plan with the unique qualities provided by choice, competition and personal responsibility.
Liberals will have to decide is the method of securing universal care the debating point or the reality of having universal care which works for businesses and individuals.
Mike Protack
We are all forgetting how much money Carper got from the insurance companies? Their tune is the tune he is dancing too. He is not caught in his own trap. The TV pundits were stating the blue dogs were from conservative rural states. Gee, I didnt know Delaware was a rural conservative State, I thought we were a blue State.
Genesis Health Care who operates for profit nursing homes around the country on John Watson WILM this morning, praising Carper and pushing for the “trigger”. Who pulls the “trigger”? This is a huge shell game and Carper has embarassed our State with his republican vote. The Democratic Party must replace this man with a person who actually works for the citizens of Delaware.
Snowe is another corporate whore. Maine has twice sent up a single payer legislation to the republican Governor and twice he refused to sign. So Maine supports single payer while their Senator supports Co-ops, for profit insurance company status quo?
As some progressive groups are reporting this morning, the progressives are going to be destroyed over this issue, unless we get off our butts and fight back. Post Carpers phone numbers and lets let our fingers make his phones ring and sing.
I was about to ask, what the hell does Joe Biden have to say about Carper voting against the administration? Why doesn’t Joe straighten Carper out, or make him pay a price?
then I remembered, Obama himself hasn’t even gotten behind the public option. So I can’t even say that Carper voted against the administration.
*sigh*
Please tell me again Obama is playing eleven-dimensional chess.
What a friggin’ waste of time searching for compromise. We already compromised when we gave up national health care for the public option. Now we are getting an individual mandate with no serious public component.
All this time arguing about whether to have a public option or not, should have been spent arguing about how much to raise taxes on the rich to pay for everyone’s health care.
heh, just a note: I broke the news in DL comments minutes after it happened that Carper voted with Schumer’s PO amendment. I guess Cassandra doesn’t read her own blog…
D’oh!
The way I figure it, Joe Biden’s more natural liberal offerings are being constrained by the heavy influence that the “DEM Convention Nomination-DLC-Clintn Contract” has in the White House -namely led by Rahm Emanuel. Pity.
There will be a reform bill. The real question right now is if it will have a Public Option or No.
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Without a real option with competition, cost controls won’t materialize. If you listened to Cantwell and Rockefeller yesterday, they both made it clear that the bill without a public option is a bad bill that must be defeated because it will fully mandate insurance from the monopolies in place right now (anyone hearing the all-of-a-sudden Wayne Smith and Blue Cross Blue Shield have radio ads today?).
The people at FireDogLake did their own public whipping of the House and they have enough people pledged on to vote against such a bill that there will be no fake reform for the sake of it.
Without a decent public option, there will be no health care insurance bill passed by this Congress and we’ll have to make sure to get true DEM progressives in there for 2010.
There is a lot of analysis of what the DLC-stylin’ of Carper/Clinton etc. is all about. It was about finding a compromise Third Way for DEMs to start to collect some of that delicious corporate money that was always floating into GOP coffers. The sell out is full circle with Wall Street bailout and no reform and with this Pharma trigger from Bush and the crap being laid out by the Senate Finance Committee now.
There is no future for American middle and lower classes if we keep letting the DLC sell out to corporations hold sway.
Sometimes I wonder how far into this mode go many of our state electeds who are tied at the hip with Carper. Follow the stimulus money outlay very closely, please, someone.
Rockefeller and Schumer YOUR FANTASTIC! 🙂
ATTENTION!! Congress Has The Votes Needed To Pass A Public Option – TODAY http://bit.ly/TCq7O
Why A Strong Public Option Is Essential – By jacksmith – Working Class
Robert Reich explains the pubic option: http://bit.ly/dDYSJ http://robertreich.blogspot.com/
Hollywood Supports The Public Option 🙂 http://bit.ly/3XLwPi
It’s not just because more than two thirds of the American people want a single payer health care system. And if they cant have a single payer system 77% of all Americans want a strong government-run public option on day one (86% of democrats, 75% of independents, and 72% republicans). Basically everyone.
It’s not just because according to a new AARP POLL: 86 percent of seniors want universal healthcare security for All, including 93% of Democrats, 87% of Independents, and 78% of Republicans. With 79% of seniors supporting creating a new strong Government-run public option plan, available immediately. Including 89% of Democrats, 80% of Independents, and 61% of Republicans, STUNNING!!
It’s not just because it will lower cost. Because a strong public option will dramatically lower cost for everyone. And dramatically improved the quality of care everyone receives in America and around the World. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
It’s not just because it will save trillions of dollars and prevent the needless deaths of millions more of YOU, caused by a rush to profit by the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!
It’s not just because every expert in every field, including economist, and Nobel laureates all agree that free market based healthcare systems don’t work. Never have and never will. The US has the only truly free market based healthcare system in the World. And as you all know now, IT IS A DISASTER!
It’s not just because providing or denying medically necessary care for profit motivations is wrong. Because it is WRONG! It’s professionally, ethically, and morally REPUGNANT!, Animalistic, VILE and EVIL.
THE REASON THE PUBLIC OPTION IS ESSENTIAL:
The public option is ESSENTIAL because over 200 million of you are trapped in the forest of the wolves. Which is the forest of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! With no way out except through needless inhumane suffering, and DEATH. While the wolves tear at your flesh, and rip you limb from lib. Then feast on your lifeless bodies like a dead carcase for transplant parts.
At the most vulnerable times of your lives (when you were sick and hurting), millions of you have had to fight and loose cruel, but heroic battles. Fighting against the big guns of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! in the forest of the wolves. All because you have no place else to go. You have no other CHOICE!
But the PUBLIC OPTION will give you someplace safe to go. And it will give us someplace safe to take you. The public option will be your refugium (your refuge). Where the wolves cannot get at you when your down, hurting, and vulnerable. Where everyone who needs it can find rest, security, comfort and the care they need. Protected by the BIG GUNS of We The People Of The United States. THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE AND COUNTRY ON EARTH.
This is why it is so critical that we do not lead another 50 million vulnerable, uninsured Americans into the forest of the wolves, without the protections of a Strong Government-run public option. We The People Of The United States MUST NOT LET THAT HAPPEN to any more of our fellow Americans. If healthcare reform does not contain a strong public option on day one. YOU MUST! KILL IT. Or you will do far more harm than good. And millions more will die needlessly. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
To those who would continue to obstruct good and true healthcare reform for the American people, and who seek to trap millions more vulnerable Americans in the forest of the wolves. We will continue to fight you. We are prepared to wage all out war against you, and will eagerly DESTROY! you. Time…is…UP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! No Co-op’s! No Triggers! NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATES! without a Strong public option on day one.
Healthcare reform can be the GREATEST! Accomplishment of our time and century. A time when future generations may say of us, that we were all, AMERICAS GREATEST GENERATIONS.
BUT WE MUST ACT!
I therefore call on all my fellow Americans and the peoples of the World. To join us in this fight so that we may finish becoming the better America that we aspire to be for everyone.
SPREAD THE WORD!
I have been privileged to be witness as many of you fought, and struggled to take your first breath, and your last breath on this earth. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Life is precious.
Whatever the cost. WE! MUST SUCCEED.
God Bless You My Fellow Human Beings
jacksmith – Working Class
Things You Can Do To Help NOW! http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2009/09/tired_of_watching_people_die_n.html
No Triggers! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-rosenbaum/a-trigger-for-the-public_b_277910.html
Triggers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/weve-seen-these-triggers_b_283583.html
Krugman on heathcare (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)
Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)
John Garamendi on the Public Option and the Grassroots: http://bit.ly/TJMty
Howard Dean on the Public Option http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SKfW2dUnow&feature=player_embedded
We’re Number 37! in quality of health care http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4&feature=player_embedded
Twitter search (#welovethenhs #NHS #hc09 #hcr #healthcar #obama #p2 #topprog #) Check it out.