Monday Open Thread
It’s Monday. *sigh* Here is your open thread.
What shall we discuss today? I have an idea: Mike Protack is running for County Council, 3rd district (seat currently held by Tansey). Discuss.
The AP, about as mainstream as you can get, did an article on the GOP moderate purge. They had an interesting quote by former Rep. Tom Davis saying that the GOP needs “adult supervision.”
The numbers: Hoffman 51%, Owens 34%, and Scozzafava (whose name remains on the ballot) 13%, with a ±2.3% margin of error. In a strict two-way matchup, Hoffman leads Owens by 54%-38%.
One caveat: Special elections are notoriously hard to poll — especially a race as crazy as this one — and this survey does have some inconsistencies from others. For example, only 39% of its likely voter pool approves of President Obama, with 52% disapproving. By contrast, the Siena poll gave Obama a favorable rating of 59%-37%. (True, “approval” and “favorable” are two different questions, but even then they shouldn’t have answers that are this different.)
Two polls show swings towards Christie in the NJ-Gov race. Quinnipiac shows a 7% swing to 42% Christie, 40% Corzine and PPP (again with a highly Republican sample) shows Christie 47%, Corzine 41%.
Tags: Open Thread
AP reports Rush said the same thing he says every day – now with more details.
There is a Siena Poll out that has these results for NY-23:
Hoffman — 41%
Owens — 36%
Scozzafava — 6%
Undecided — 18%
Which looks like alot of Scozzafava’s supporters don’t know what to do. In which case, this is how Hoffman wins — the moderate Republicans and Independents who would have voted for her stay home.
My local barometer for the NJ Governors race (a coworker that lives in NJ) has finally settled on Christie. The guy has a picture of Obama on his desk and has shifted along with the polls.
I predict a Christie victory, as the short love affair with 3rd party candidates in NJ wakes up and casts a vote to register their dislike of Corzine.
I wish Biden had had a bigger venue. The D’s better be scrambling their GOTV.
Two tidbits on the Protack issue.
a) Protack could come in as low as third in the GOP primary for that race. (Many people will enjoy watching him lose badly again.)
b) He likely could face one (or two) opponents in the County Council race who are stronger candidates than anyone he faced in his many failed statewide primaries.
Who else is running for that Council seat?
Protack could come in as low as third in the GOP primary for that race
There’s a third…or is that a humorous way of saying he’d finish third in a two-way race?
Cass – I do know of another very-likely person not named Tansey, but I am utitlizing my respect for the request of keeping it quiet for now. If you know me, you know I will honor that.
“Former Vice President”??? what does CNN know that we don’t?
Biden says NY-23 can teach conservatives a lesson
CNN ^ | 11/2/2009 | Alexander Mooney
CNN) – Former Vice President Joe Biden challenged Republican voters in New York’s 23rd congressional district to teach conservative “absolutists” a lesson in the special House election Tuesday by voting for the Democratic candidate in the race “We aren’t asking you to switch your party,” Biden said at a rally for Democrat Bill Owens in Watertown, New York Monday morning.
My understanding is that the current councilman is retiring. Considering Republican difficulty in the County it would be unlikely that most of the party would want to encourage a primary. A lot of them have been encouraging Mr. Protack to go this route. Some to get him out of their hair and others because they believe he can accomplish something. Either way it is in the interest of a lot of people that he be allowed to be successful.
The AP is mainstream, but it is on the left. Considering that Dede Brutus was a liberal not a moderate, they miss the point. A Democrat with the exact same positions would be a liberal. Liberals have no place in leadership in the GOP. This person was to the left of Leiberman.
I could spell it out for you but just go to DP and read the commie lib Scazzafava endorses socialist Dem post. The national review later said pretty much the same. Read them today.
We do not want people to get along with these folks. We want people to fight them. If you do not meet that standard, you don’t qualify. If you are on their side 90% of the time, you are the same and need to be defeated. This woman was not wrong 1/3 of the time. She was wrong most of the time by conservative standards. No party can promote its opponents.
It’s just funny that the other person had it under consideration and you-know-who jumps to the front of the line, again. I am not saying he has no right, because he ahs EVERY right to run, but when I read your comment, it is what springs to mind. Especially the part where you are indirectly poo-pooing a potential primary.
So, David, then they would NOT be permitted to drink from the same water fountain as you, then?
I think you have done far more than prove that total disenfranchisement of those who think different from you is far better for your goals than reconciliation. tsk.
I have discouraged many primaries, but I always support a person’s right to run. I am a party guy. I admit it. I think that if there are larger issues then it is worth a primary. If it is just personality stuff, i say that everyone has a right, but I don’t have to play along.
Primaries are messy, but they are also invigorating. They are needed sometimes. Most importantly they prevent a split.
Let me put it clearly. Liberals are harming America. I love America. Ergo, I must stop liberals. Not aid them in a misguided effort. Not invite them to my political party. When they repent of their misguided ways, they are more than welcome. Liberals are not my enemy. Liberalism is.
No, David, you hate America. You must. Otherwise, you would not deal in absolutes like this.
David,
Liberals are your opposition, not your enemy. That’s a big difference. You don’t get to claim that you love America if you hate 80% of Americans (everyone to the left of Newt Gingrich). That makes you a separatist.
OMG! David! Come on! You are being isolationist, which honestly is simply a KIND way to say that you are an absolute segregationist, politically speaking.
Actually, in typical fashion, David violates his own principles (or Glenn Beck’s, at least):
It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
You don’t get to claim that you love America if you hate 80% of Americans (everyone to the left of Newt Gingrich).
UI, Newt is a moderate now. Please try to keep up.
David here illustrates the real problem that the GOP now has. A base that is more interested in its McCarthyite games than in governing. He isn’t interested in working with the party in power — but how long will it take for him to whine again with the lie that the President won’t work with Republicans? Setting aside the fact that the President has been trying, why then, would you try to work with a group of people whose core principles involve never working with you?
Being the first person to declare your candidacy for a race means nothing. Many candidates are not declaring in that race out of respect for the sitting Councilman who has not announced his intentions.
Mr. Protack is far inferior to any of the candidates I’ve heard attached to that race. He simply will not win the primary.
You missed the fact that liberals are the 20% We are the plurality. I said, Liberals are not my enemy U. I. Liberalism is. I don’t care if everyone agrees with me. That is not even desirable. What I have problem with is this secular neo-socialism that is undermining all that makes us America. That has to be defeated. It is killing babies, destroying families,undermining our security, and wrecking our economy.
No actually — the people in Congress are majority Democrats elected not by the 20% but a plurality that includes a fair number of independents and repubs. That is the way governing coalitions work — not by McCarthyite gamesmanship.
And let’s not forget that the business of undermining our security, wrecking the economy and destroying families was Job 1 for BushCo and a job that you enthusiastically cheered on at every step. And we are still trying to clean up the mess you people made of all of it.
undermining our security sure wasn’t done by conservative war criminals…. or white collar republican greed mongers who abused capitalism to screw thousands of hard working americans out of the american dream so they could afford a new leer jet.
I am so sick and tired of you bullies blaming liberals for all the porblems you created. America is NOT yours david. it belongs to everyone… and right now, the Left is in a majority. Stop the finger pointing and realize you and your kind are responsible for a good 80% of the problems in the world.
and liberals didnt destroy the institution of marriage, Fox did, so did CBS and NBC and every show that turned it into a game…. not to mention larry craig, david vitter, newt gingrich, mark sanford, david foley, john ensign, (spizter, edwards, clinton) Ronald ray-gun, strom thurmond, rudy gulliani….. shall i go on? or do you have a f-g killing to get to?
From Tom Toles at the WaPo
Is America really ready for Doctor Who?
It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
Notice it says ME and MY.
I should think this is better:
It is not un-American for one to disagree with authority or to share one’s personal opinion.
Glenn Beck isn’t interested in hearing MY opinion, only his own.
Hardly any Republicans voted for the Democrats in Congress, but the independents who were unhappy with GOP incompetence are now abandoning the Democrats in droves. The GOP will have two or three chances to get them back and accomplish something. If not I see third parites arising. Wow 3-1 Phillie what a homer by Utley.
Any way those many of those districts will come back. The tea party activists are Perot style independents and you guys insulted them. They will go back to Republicans. They are scared of your majorities that they elected. The Blue Dogs are voting like red lap dogs. In 2010, many of them will be dead dogs (politically). The moderates will be gone from the GOP nationally and the moderates will be gone from the Democrats. We will move to a more European ideological politics. That is just the trend.
The moderates will be gone from the GOP nationally and the moderates will be gone from the Democrats.
…and after you are done rounding them up and banning them from your waterfountains, where will they be interred?
I don’t think they’re Perot style independents. I think they’re mostly wingnuts.
I talk to people every day, and particularly in Delaware, who, 20 years ago were R’s. Their parents were R’s. But they’re not knuckle-dragging morons, and they aren’t R’s anymore. They register Independent and vote for D’s and Mike Castle.
Those are the people the GOP need, and they won’t get them back anytime soon. They voted for DUKAKIS, because they were tired of seeing their hard earned money handed over to Lockheed and Halliburton. They wouldn’t hire those people waving babydolls with blood and wearing funny hats to protest taxes to mow their lawns, and they SURE won’t hire them to run their retirement. No way, no how.
The party moved and left them behind.
Teabaggers make Perot look sane.
Perot is and was sane. It is Ross Perot who balanced the budget and stood up against both parties sale out of the middle class. He is a great American.
No one will be rounded up. A lot of them have been fired because they just sat around and played both ends. New people will be hired until we get people who know where they are going and have the courage to take us in the right direction.
There is not the slightest animosity.
Speaking of purging moderates, I hope you all will give a warm welcome back to the controversial and thought provoking Frank Knotts to DP.
Does he hate the unborn as much as Castle? If so, he is the kind of moderate that I can welcome.
Frank loves the unborn and all people. He just believes that moderates are the number 1 problem with the GOP and they need to be purged. Frank was ahead of his time and obviously represents a significant segment of the population that needs to be heard and understood. He has launched the RACE today. Republicans Against Castle’s Election which will provide the intellectual basis for the movement to have a conservative in the senate.
Wow… comment rescue from Darcy Burner on dKos:
It is a remarkable diary from a smart Democrat. Well worth it just for the observation that Alan Grayson’s “Die quickly” was not hyperbolic at all.
Man, teabaggers are everywhere. This is from the London Times.
John Bohner says that teabaggers are the GOP’s version of the Rainbow Wig Jesus Guy who have a hard on for being on TV, but don’t really take part in politics. (paraphrase).
The real problem the GOP has is that people like David are sincere — frightened, ignorant and arrogant, but sincere.
David is not sincere – in addition to ignorant and arrogant, he is one of the most dishonest and pro-authoritarian commenters on this site.
Why do you find him insincere, A1? I’m convinced he believes what he types. And yes, anyone who believes in Skydad as fervently as David does is, by definition, an authoritarian.
Enough of the political segregationist David. In news more important than he will ever be:
It’s time for the spouse-beater Myers to go.
I’m with Geezer. David is a true believer, which makes his rhetoric extremely disturbing.
Steaksauce, in perspective of what Geezer says, I, too believe the segregationist is indeed sincere. He is very sincere in what he presents to us all, in that he 100% believes everything he says. I don’t doubt that one bit. Take it from me, I believe his view that someone like me (politically) has no place at his table. The only role I’d have is to serve him dinner, take away his plates, clean them, do his laundry and if I am a good boy, I may be able to take a sip of water from his tap. Wait, no I wouldn’t. I’d have to drink out of the creek in the back, if I’m lucky enough. Ah, I forgot, I wouldn’t be allowed to speak, unless spoken to, but even that would be restricted to an affirmative groan.
I find him insincere and blatantly dishonest because time and time again he writes comments that are overtly and incontrovertibly factually incorrect, and when it is pointed out to him, he doesn’t respond.
A great example is torture. In spite of the incontrovertible evidence that people were tortured to death under the Bush administration, he insists that it wasn’t torture and the techniques were fine and dandy.
It is Ross Perot who balanced the budget and stood up against both parties sale out of the middle class.
This may be sincere, but it is sincerely wrong. And that is the whole problem with assessing “sincerity”. It goes as far as what his leaders tell him every day. If the radio handlers and Fox Noise went on a jihad against Perot, he would be sincerely here telling us that Perot almost drove America off of the cliff.
The sincerity is in the slavishiness to other people’s opinions and directions.
A1 – sincere isn’t fact, it’s belief. That’s the point. The guy believes everything he writes, even when he contradicts himself.
So, has anyone seen the total circle jerk he, Frank, and Pat Fish are dancing over there now? Honestly, I feel threatened by them. No, not physically, but in other ways. It’s really bad (OK, maybe good for you). There is no reconciliation.
BTW, remember yesterday how David claimed he wanted a moderate purge? Well today, he says he doesn’t. WTF?
Rsmitty, classic.
Classic.
anonone, might have a point.
The definition of sincere:
Republican David might be earnest, but he is not free of deceit, hypocrisy or falseness.
nemski – if you find a report on the entire interview with Hamels where that “…ready for the season to be over…” comment came from, you will see that the media totally bastardized the entire interview for a glory moment. I can say with confidence today that Hamels was totally wronged in that. Given all that and that Myers is part of that team, Myers is a total jackass. It’s time to trade him for a box of hot dogs for the concession stand.
Utley’s getting neutered today.
Oh yeah, I’m talking about Utley my Cocker Spaniel puppy.
RSmitty: He’s a free agent.
Damn, I was looking forward to a box of hotdogs for the fans. See? Myers is a jackass! 😛
Back to David: He comes from an absolutist religious tradition — one that insists it is best and seeks to proselytize others and marginalize those who resist — so it shouldn’t be surprising that he’s an absolutist when it comes to politics. His take on politics is absurd. Abortion is not a political issue, but he and his ilk always seek to make it illegal because they cannot convince women not to have them. And, at root, the staunch anti-abortion people reveal their true agenda when you suggest they join with liberals in making birth control easier to get. They’re against that, because the real issue isn’t the baby — they’re in favor of you having a baby as the “natural” result of indulging in sex. They are sad, frightened people, all the more frightening because they are so fearful.
We often talk here about the difference between liberals and conservatives. I think it is this: Conservatives are afraid of “the other,” and, given their propensity for dividing all groups into “us” and “them,” that makes them see danger almost everywhere. There has been recent research showing this to be true — conservatives have brain circuitry more sensitive to perceived danger than do liberals.
Look at David’s stated fear: liberals are destroying America. Of course, he’s got the causality wrong: America is changing, just as it always has, and liberals are less afraid of that than conservatives are. But conservatives throughout our history have said exactly the same things David says, and clearly they weren’t right, or America wouldn’t have become the most powerful nation on earth — it would have been destroyed by the liberals of the 1820s, and 1840s, and 1860s, etc., etc., etc.
So try to be gentle. Though he is dangerous in his ignorance, he deserves pity more than hatred.
Geezer, I appreciate your kindness, and I agree 100% with “he deserves pity more than hatred.”
I also believe that his lies should be exposed for what they are, regardless of his intentions. Nemski got it exactly right “Republican David might be earnest, but he is not free of deceit, hypocrisy or falseness.”
Personally, I don’t think he is even earnest. I think he is a total fraud. And I do pity that.