That video is about 30 years old. What’s with the Christian-bashing? Let’s hear what you have to say about Muslims’ treatment of women. Oh right, can’t do that. It’s not PC.
Mallory is an idiot. Which the real asshat Miscreant couldn’t possibly see through his unfortunate hat.
Notwithstanding the fact that neither of you could point to the place where any of us actually *support* the bad treatment of some Muslim women (because it likely escaped your notice that not *all* Muslim women are subject to the worst of Sharia), there isn’t much Christian bashing here, either. It does point out — as we routinely do — the complete hypocrisy of the family values crowd. Who have a very long history of treating teens to fairy tales instead of real info that might protect them.
Probably not, skippertee. It is probably OK since the Minister doesn’t say “you may NOW blow the groom” on the wedding day. Besides, usually, these types find a loophole, like if Dad says don’t use the front door then they use the backdoor.
The “Dad” in this video reminds me of Ted Haggard.
I’m thinking that kissing is used in place of sex here. What does it mean then, when the Dad kisses the daughter? Sheesh, this video tortures the topic, not to mention the viewers.
Mallory, in answer to your question “What do I say about Muslim treatment of women?” It depends upon whom you are referring to as Muslim. Just as it would be wrong to lump all Christians together, it is equally wrong to lump all Muslims together. Having grown up with many Muslims, my home town is home to the Mother Mosque (the first mosque in North America) the Muslims I know treat their mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, and girl friends no different than any other Iowans of other, or no, religious faith. If you are talking about how women are treated in Saudi Arabia, and other Muslim countries I have never heard anyone defend their treatment of women. Has our dependence on foreign oil caused leaders of both parties to ignore the treatment of women in these oil rich countries? Yes, but it isn’t because it wouldn’t be PC to point out the obvious, but because our dependence on their oil.
Laughing at the absurdity of the video is not a criticism of Christianity. No one mentioned any faith until your post. I am so tired of certain Christians believing their interpretation of the bible, or their branch of Christianity is superior, not only to other faiths, but to other Christian denominations. In case you didn’t notice in the video only one person wearing a Christian symbol, was the blond, who has “kissed” lots of boys, and who is later freaked out when a boy wanted to do more than kiss. This girl wearing a cross, a universal symbol of Christianity, given it wasn’t a crucifix, she presumably isn’t a Catholic. Her Christian faith was strong enough to cause her to wear a cross as a symbol of her faith, and unlike her friend, with the very creepy Dad; she had no problem kissing a boy. While the church I grew up in (and continue to attend) is clear that sex is for procreation within marriage, the Catholic Church has never put kissing and “fornication” on equal footing. Many Christian (and other) faiths strongly advocate a couple should save themselves for their wedding, and my hats off to those who succeed in doing so. However, the only religious faith I’m aware of that advocates the prohibition of premarital sex includes kissing is Islam. While I don’t doubt some extremely conservative evangelic churches promote the idea that premarital kissing is on the same level as procreative sex, the over whelming number of Christian faiths do not prescribe to that view.
Not only is the prohibition of premarital sex very difficult for most people to fulfill, many of the advocates of abstinence only failed to accomplish the goal as well (i.e. Sarah Palin, Pat Robertson whose first child was born 10 weeks after his wedding, etc.). Mallory I agree people shouldn’t mock other people’s faith, or lump all members of a faith together. However, you falsely claimed criticism of this video was Christian-bashing, which not only had not been done by anyone. But by viewing mocking of an absurd outdated video as Christian bashing you ascribed the absurd view of the video, that the Priest/Minister’s statement that you may now kiss the bride, means that Christians are suppose to wait until their wedding date for their first kiss, as a tenant of all Christians, which I can assure you the overwhelming number of Christians do not believe that the first kiss should happen at the wedding.
It depends upon whom you are referring to as Muslim.
Many Muslims adhere to natural law, not Islamic law as defined by their texts and leaders. But if you mean people who actually take Islamic texts seriously who consequently take Mohammad as a model for their sexual ethic then that does depend. A good Muslim as defined by the Quran and other texts is a bad person because they will be someone who tends to think that rape and pedophilia are okay. Mohammad is their model, yet according to their texts he had sex with a ten year old: Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Hadith Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234Link
What kind of sexual ethic does that reveal? Mohammad states in the Quran that Allah told him that slaves can be raped as well. If Mohammad is the model then one has to wonder what type of sexual ethic we’re talking about?
Some people seem to think that Christian prudery or paternalism derives from the same sort of foundation as similar Islamic attitudes seen around the world to this day. This is why American gluttons and hedonists make comments about the “Christian Taliban” and so on if they sense even the most marginal form of law or barrier to their hedonism. The opposite is the case, the Muslim men who promote such laws are equally hedonists. To say otherwise is like saying that a father trying to protect is daughter (even if they’re over-protective) is the equivalent of an insanely jealous and insecure Muslim man trying to measure his pathetic form of masculinity by the number of women/slaves in his harem. Islamists of that sort do not consider a woman having a sun tan an offense worth beating them for because they care about her virtue or because they want to protect their wives and daughters. Instead their actions show that they don’t even view their wives and daughters as people in the same way that the majority of people in the world do. The paternalistic, overly protective or overly spiritual views of the “Christian Taliban” are generally diametrically opposed to the views of Islamists.
Who have a very long history of treating teens to fairy tales instead of real info that might protect them.
Actually history indicates that until the emergence of the “fairy tale” notion of chivalry and so on among knights in the West that the place of women in most cultures was low. (And even there old traditions didn’t die to the new ideals/”fairy tales” easily.)
Perhaps people need a little “fairy tale”/ideal that doesn’t exist in a brutal world to be upheld now and then, instead of people pointing out that it doesn’t exist. If we’re always wallowing around in brute realities like a bunch of moral degenerates then any sexual ethic can be done away with, including incest. At least people here still seem to be intolerant of incest, apparently progress hasn’t been made in that area.
Part of the true American Taliban that points out that Islamic texts show that Muhammad was a pedophile? Right… it’s an odd sort of Taliban that exists in the minds of American liberals.
Ironically, truly supporting the Taliban and Islamists would apparently afford me a good deal of tolerance and victimization propaganda from the Left.
At any rate, so you’re saying that I would agree with this: In what has become the Taliban’s latest atrocity against women’s rights in Afghanistan, a young unmarried couple in the southwestern province of Nimroz was publicly executed. Their crime – falling in love and eloping.
….
It is not only the extremists who treat women in the country as mere objects, but the government too seems to be backing the notion, as was evident from President Hamid Karzai’s controversial ‘rape law’.
The law, brought by President Karzai allowed Shiite men to demand sex from their wives every four days and keep them indoors indefinitely. Links
But I’m actually more libertarian than conservative. If you weren’t mentally incompetent you would be able to see that making fairly basic judgments about American hedonism is not the equivalent of supporting the government or anyone else doing anything about it. Ironically it is typically environmentalists and the Left who are the first to try to have the government do something about gluttony and hedonism, not libertarians or conservatives. Are they the American Taliban?
How odd to read a “libertarian” wax rhapsodic about American gluttony and hedonism when libertarianism and conservatism has perverted individualism into to some sick hyper-selfish, Ayn Randian snuff film nightmare.
Logical consistency has never been a strong suit for the movement though, so I should not be too surprised.
No. I’m saying it takes a special kind of asshole to pass judgment on an entire religion in such painstaking detail. Don’t get me wrong — I think that, for example, Mormonism is a loonball mash-up of previously founded religions. But I also know and am friends with many Mormons, none of whom are particularly loony. So I am able to separate the church as an institution from the church as a community.
I’m also saying it takes a special kind of insecurity to demand that criticisms of one’s own tribe must be accompanied by criticisms of a competing tribe as some sort of litmus test.
Hell, let’s make this shorter: I’m saying you’re an asshole.
I’m saying it takes a special kind of asshole to pass judgment on an entire religion in such painstaking detail.
No more than it takes a special kind of asshole to criticize Christians based on a film from the 1980s and so on. Given the sort of abysmal ignorance that is common here it may seem like “painstaking detail” to point out what Islamic texts say about the central figure of Islam but it’s actually not.
I’m also saying it takes a special kind of insecurity to demand that criticisms of one’s own tribe must be accompanied by criticisms of a competing tribe…
I didn’t demand anything but the comparison is interesting. The Herd here seems to be purely political, unless I missed all the videos making fun of Islam and so on. I wonder if that is because it’s scared, politically correct, or both? In any event, it’s rather boring and if one is looking for knowledge it is not to be found here.
Hell, let’s make this shorter: I’m saying you’re an asshole.
I know, what’s not clear is why you want to play pretend about your arguments being based on facts, logic or evidence of any sort. An environmentalist could have said something about American gluttony and hedonism in different language while calling for the government to do something about it and it wouldn’t have triggered the emotional conditioning typical to imbeciles. Yet I mention the same patterns in passing and it sets you off. I don’t run with your Herd, that is all.
Many conservative support sodomy laws, I don’t. Many conservatives think that drugs should be illegal, I don’t. Other than that I may be as conservative as all the rest… and more power to them. It’s not as if I want to identify with the Herd here, after all.
The best part is, you are so ashamed, you have to pretend to be something else.
Not at all, in fact it would seem that I’d even rather be associated with the people in the video than intellectual cowards who can’t even bring themselves to criticize morally degenerate Islamic tenets here. There will never be reform if it’s not criticized.
guess what. I am a Progressive Socialist and DAMN proud of it.
Yeah, that’s radical. What would actually be radical is to say things against evil which put you at risk(link) instead of swatting at vague abstractions like “the rich” and other groups who never seem to do anything about it. In fact, most of “the rich” more likely to contribute to your campaign and support your ideas than support violence against you.
Exactly. You run with a herd who feel their religion is under attack, and wants to slag a different religion to make up for it — or slag us for slagging your religion but not theirs — or something.
I also love the call for civility and debate. Sorry, not interested. I’m not looking to convince anyone of anything. I really don’t give a shit what the Koran says; I assume it’s as logically inconsistent as the Christian Bible, and lends itself just as easily to people trying to cherry-pick verses to justify their actions. I don’t care to be told what I believe simply because I self-identify as a liberal, especially by someone who isn’t even a member of the tribe. You’re essentially doing the same unfair, even stupid, thing to liberals that you’re complaining is being done to your tribe of anti-kissing Christians.
Please, by all means, go look for knowledge somewhere else. I don’t like Islam any more than I like your brand of Christianity, and I don’t care to be subjected to fairness tests by assholes who call themselves Christians. So fuck off, sport. And fuck the horse you rode in on, too.
i’ve never swatted at “the rich”. I take shots at “the right” and many of them have kept themselves so ignorant and isolated they end up in trailer parks. There are LOTS of rich progressives who i look up to and feel they earned and should be able to keep their wealth.
It is the executives who exploit workers, rape the planet, and let China put poison in our toys.. and are DEFENDED by the “free market” Right.
What the Right wing in america has de to the “free market” is as bad as what has been done to christianity. You xenophobic bigots took a forgiving and peaceful religion and turned it into Westboro baptists church. So don’t tell me about priorities or misguided philosophies. The Right Wing in America has ALWAYS held us back. Blind adherence to free enterprise and capitalism leads to poison toys, dead coal miners, and an ocean filing up with oil.
Well,I guess a BJ’s out of the question.
That video is about 30 years old. What’s with the Christian-bashing? Let’s hear what you have to say about Muslims’ treatment of women. Oh right, can’t do that. It’s not PC.
Mallory rocks.
Answer the question, asshats.
Mallory is an idiot. Which the real asshat Miscreant couldn’t possibly see through his unfortunate hat.
Notwithstanding the fact that neither of you could point to the place where any of us actually *support* the bad treatment of some Muslim women (because it likely escaped your notice that not *all* Muslim women are subject to the worst of Sharia), there isn’t much Christian bashing here, either. It does point out — as we routinely do — the complete hypocrisy of the family values crowd. Who have a very long history of treating teens to fairy tales instead of real info that might protect them.
Too bad that through this week’s manufactured outrage that you couldn’t even tell that we pointed and jeered at a more contemporary version of the usual wingnut hypocrisy.
The dad totally weirds me out.
I am completely offended by skipertees comment.
Probably not, skippertee. It is probably OK since the Minister doesn’t say “you may NOW blow the groom” on the wedding day. Besides, usually, these types find a loophole, like if Dad says don’t use the front door then they use the backdoor.
The “Dad” in this video reminds me of Ted Haggard.
As the Dad finish’s preaching his “proper” values to his daughter, I keep thinking the next line is, “Now come give your Dad a little tongue.”
all i have to say is…. test drive it before ya buy it. that is my pre-marital relations philosophy. and skip, bravo.
I’m thinking that kissing is used in place of sex here. What does it mean then, when the Dad kisses the daughter? Sheesh, this video tortures the topic, not to mention the viewers.
Mallory, in answer to your question “What do I say about Muslim treatment of women?” It depends upon whom you are referring to as Muslim. Just as it would be wrong to lump all Christians together, it is equally wrong to lump all Muslims together. Having grown up with many Muslims, my home town is home to the Mother Mosque (the first mosque in North America) the Muslims I know treat their mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, and girl friends no different than any other Iowans of other, or no, religious faith. If you are talking about how women are treated in Saudi Arabia, and other Muslim countries I have never heard anyone defend their treatment of women. Has our dependence on foreign oil caused leaders of both parties to ignore the treatment of women in these oil rich countries? Yes, but it isn’t because it wouldn’t be PC to point out the obvious, but because our dependence on their oil.
Laughing at the absurdity of the video is not a criticism of Christianity. No one mentioned any faith until your post. I am so tired of certain Christians believing their interpretation of the bible, or their branch of Christianity is superior, not only to other faiths, but to other Christian denominations. In case you didn’t notice in the video only one person wearing a Christian symbol, was the blond, who has “kissed” lots of boys, and who is later freaked out when a boy wanted to do more than kiss. This girl wearing a cross, a universal symbol of Christianity, given it wasn’t a crucifix, she presumably isn’t a Catholic. Her Christian faith was strong enough to cause her to wear a cross as a symbol of her faith, and unlike her friend, with the very creepy Dad; she had no problem kissing a boy. While the church I grew up in (and continue to attend) is clear that sex is for procreation within marriage, the Catholic Church has never put kissing and “fornication” on equal footing. Many Christian (and other) faiths strongly advocate a couple should save themselves for their wedding, and my hats off to those who succeed in doing so. However, the only religious faith I’m aware of that advocates the prohibition of premarital sex includes kissing is Islam. While I don’t doubt some extremely conservative evangelic churches promote the idea that premarital kissing is on the same level as procreative sex, the over whelming number of Christian faiths do not prescribe to that view.
Not only is the prohibition of premarital sex very difficult for most people to fulfill, many of the advocates of abstinence only failed to accomplish the goal as well (i.e. Sarah Palin, Pat Robertson whose first child was born 10 weeks after his wedding, etc.). Mallory I agree people shouldn’t mock other people’s faith, or lump all members of a faith together. However, you falsely claimed criticism of this video was Christian-bashing, which not only had not been done by anyone. But by viewing mocking of an absurd outdated video as Christian bashing you ascribed the absurd view of the video, that the Priest/Minister’s statement that you may now kiss the bride, means that Christians are suppose to wait until their wedding date for their first kiss, as a tenant of all Christians, which I can assure you the overwhelming number of Christians do not believe that the first kiss should happen at the wedding.
Iowa Democrat – more paragraph breaks, pretty please!!! Whew, doggie.
It depends upon whom you are referring to as Muslim.
Many Muslims adhere to natural law, not Islamic law as defined by their texts and leaders. But if you mean people who actually take Islamic texts seriously who consequently take Mohammad as a model for their sexual ethic then that does depend. A good Muslim as defined by the Quran and other texts is a bad person because they will be someone who tends to think that rape and pedophilia are okay. Mohammad is their model, yet according to their texts he had sex with a ten year old:
Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Hadith Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234Link
What kind of sexual ethic does that reveal? Mohammad states in the Quran that Allah told him that slaves can be raped as well. If Mohammad is the model then one has to wonder what type of sexual ethic we’re talking about?
Some people seem to think that Christian prudery or paternalism derives from the same sort of foundation as similar Islamic attitudes seen around the world to this day. This is why American gluttons and hedonists make comments about the “Christian Taliban” and so on if they sense even the most marginal form of law or barrier to their hedonism. The opposite is the case, the Muslim men who promote such laws are equally hedonists. To say otherwise is like saying that a father trying to protect is daughter (even if they’re over-protective) is the equivalent of an insanely jealous and insecure Muslim man trying to measure his pathetic form of masculinity by the number of women/slaves in his harem. Islamists of that sort do not consider a woman having a sun tan an offense worth beating them for because they care about her virtue or because they want to protect their wives and daughters. Instead their actions show that they don’t even view their wives and daughters as people in the same way that the majority of people in the world do. The paternalistic, overly protective or overly spiritual views of the “Christian Taliban” are generally diametrically opposed to the views of Islamists.
Who have a very long history of treating teens to fairy tales instead of real info that might protect them.
Actually history indicates that until the emergence of the “fairy tale” notion of chivalry and so on among knights in the West that the place of women in most cultures was low. (And even there old traditions didn’t die to the new ideals/”fairy tales” easily.)
Perhaps people need a little “fairy tale”/ideal that doesn’t exist in a brutal world to be upheld now and then, instead of people pointing out that it doesn’t exist. If we’re always wallowing around in brute realities like a bunch of moral degenerates then any sexual ethic can be done away with, including incest. At least people here still seem to be intolerant of incest, apparently progress hasn’t been made in that area.
“American gluttons and hedonists.”
Spoken like a true American Taliban.
Anon- point taken, I’ll try, but can only promise that much.
Spoken like a true American Taliban.
Part of the true American Taliban that points out that Islamic texts show that Muhammad was a pedophile? Right… it’s an odd sort of Taliban that exists in the minds of American liberals.
Ironically, truly supporting the Taliban and Islamists would apparently afford me a good deal of tolerance and victimization propaganda from the Left.
At any rate, so you’re saying that I would agree with this:
In what has become the Taliban’s latest atrocity against women’s rights in Afghanistan, a young unmarried couple in the southwestern province of Nimroz was publicly executed. Their crime – falling in love and eloping.
….
It is not only the extremists who treat women in the country as mere objects, but the government too seems to be backing the notion, as was evident from President Hamid Karzai’s controversial ‘rape law’.
The law, brought by President Karzai allowed Shiite men to demand sex from their wives every four days and keep them indoors indefinitely.
Links
But I’m actually more libertarian than conservative. If you weren’t mentally incompetent you would be able to see that making fairly basic judgments about American hedonism is not the equivalent of supporting the government or anyone else doing anything about it. Ironically it is typically environmentalists and the Left who are the first to try to have the government do something about gluttony and hedonism, not libertarians or conservatives. Are they the American Taliban?
How odd to read a “libertarian” wax rhapsodic about American gluttony and hedonism when libertarianism and conservatism has perverted individualism into to some sick hyper-selfish, Ayn Randian snuff film nightmare.
Logical consistency has never been a strong suit for the movement though, so I should not be too surprised.
“So you’re saying…”
No. I’m saying it takes a special kind of asshole to pass judgment on an entire religion in such painstaking detail. Don’t get me wrong — I think that, for example, Mormonism is a loonball mash-up of previously founded religions. But I also know and am friends with many Mormons, none of whom are particularly loony. So I am able to separate the church as an institution from the church as a community.
I’m also saying it takes a special kind of insecurity to demand that criticisms of one’s own tribe must be accompanied by criticisms of a competing tribe as some sort of litmus test.
Hell, let’s make this shorter: I’m saying you’re an asshole.
“But I’m actually more libertarian than conservative”
the Glenn Beck defense. You are just as conservative as all the rest. The best part is, you are so ashamed, you have to pretend to be something else.
guess what. I am a Progressive Socialist and DAMN proud of it.
I’m saying it takes a special kind of asshole to pass judgment on an entire religion in such painstaking detail.
No more than it takes a special kind of asshole to criticize Christians based on a film from the 1980s and so on. Given the sort of abysmal ignorance that is common here it may seem like “painstaking detail” to point out what Islamic texts say about the central figure of Islam but it’s actually not.
I’m also saying it takes a special kind of insecurity to demand that criticisms of one’s own tribe must be accompanied by criticisms of a competing tribe…
I didn’t demand anything but the comparison is interesting. The Herd here seems to be purely political, unless I missed all the videos making fun of Islam and so on. I wonder if that is because it’s scared, politically correct, or both? In any event, it’s rather boring and if one is looking for knowledge it is not to be found here.
Hell, let’s make this shorter: I’m saying you’re an asshole.
I know, what’s not clear is why you want to play pretend about your arguments being based on facts, logic or evidence of any sort. An environmentalist could have said something about American gluttony and hedonism in different language while calling for the government to do something about it and it wouldn’t have triggered the emotional conditioning typical to imbeciles. Yet I mention the same patterns in passing and it sets you off. I don’t run with your Herd, that is all.
You are just as conservative as all the rest.
Many conservative support sodomy laws, I don’t. Many conservatives think that drugs should be illegal, I don’t. Other than that I may be as conservative as all the rest… and more power to them. It’s not as if I want to identify with the Herd here, after all.
The best part is, you are so ashamed, you have to pretend to be something else.
Not at all, in fact it would seem that I’d even rather be associated with the people in the video than intellectual cowards who can’t even bring themselves to criticize morally degenerate Islamic tenets here. There will never be reform if it’s not criticized.
guess what. I am a Progressive Socialist and DAMN proud of it.
Yeah, that’s radical. What would actually be radical is to say things against evil which put you at risk(link) instead of swatting at vague abstractions like “the rich” and other groups who never seem to do anything about it. In fact, most of “the rich” more likely to contribute to your campaign and support your ideas than support violence against you.
Exactly. You run with a herd who feel their religion is under attack, and wants to slag a different religion to make up for it — or slag us for slagging your religion but not theirs — or something.
I also love the call for civility and debate. Sorry, not interested. I’m not looking to convince anyone of anything. I really don’t give a shit what the Koran says; I assume it’s as logically inconsistent as the Christian Bible, and lends itself just as easily to people trying to cherry-pick verses to justify their actions. I don’t care to be told what I believe simply because I self-identify as a liberal, especially by someone who isn’t even a member of the tribe. You’re essentially doing the same unfair, even stupid, thing to liberals that you’re complaining is being done to your tribe of anti-kissing Christians.
Please, by all means, go look for knowledge somewhere else. I don’t like Islam any more than I like your brand of Christianity, and I don’t care to be subjected to fairness tests by assholes who call themselves Christians. So fuck off, sport. And fuck the horse you rode in on, too.
i’ve never swatted at “the rich”. I take shots at “the right” and many of them have kept themselves so ignorant and isolated they end up in trailer parks. There are LOTS of rich progressives who i look up to and feel they earned and should be able to keep their wealth.
It is the executives who exploit workers, rape the planet, and let China put poison in our toys.. and are DEFENDED by the “free market” Right.
What the Right wing in america has de to the “free market” is as bad as what has been done to christianity. You xenophobic bigots took a forgiving and peaceful religion and turned it into Westboro baptists church. So don’t tell me about priorities or misguided philosophies. The Right Wing in America has ALWAYS held us back. Blind adherence to free enterprise and capitalism leads to poison toys, dead coal miners, and an ocean filing up with oil.
take your gLibertarian horse crap and ‘git.