Can The Palestinians Get Their Shit Together?
Nicholas Kristof has an interesting column questioning whether the Palestinians can organize a non-violent protest against Israel. Turns out from the Palestinian perspective, youths throwing rocks is a non-violent protest. Kristof writes:
Despite being stoned and tear-gassed on this trip, I find a reed of hope here. It’s that some Palestinians are dabbling in a strategy of nonviolent resistance that just might be a game-changer.
No doubt about it that it would be a game changer, but the Palestinians are a long way away from non-violent protests.
But imagine if Palestinians stopped the rock-throwing and put female pacifists in the lead. What if 1,000 women sat down peacefully on a road to block access to an illegal Jewish settlement built on Palestinian farmland? What if the women allowed themselves to be tear-gassed, beaten and arrested without a single rock being thrown? Those images would be on televisions around the world — particularly if hundreds more women marched in to replace those hauled away.
The IDF has been using live ammunition on non-violent protests for decades, although the New York Times won’t admit it.
Curiously, the Times never suggests that the Israelis abandon violence.
I guess you have an alternative definition of violence. Most of us consider attacking people with bottles, Molotov cocktails, and sticks violent behavior.
What makes Kristof or anybody think Israelis would beat and tear gas peaceful protesters?
“I guess you have an alternative definition of violence. Most of us consider attacking people with bottles, Molotov cocktails, and sticks violent behavior.”
How easily someone from whose never lived under a foreign occupation will judge the actions of those who do.
LOL delacrat, way to deflect. RD just wanted to get a clarification on your definition of “non-violent”.
I think many people still alive in Israel know a lot about living under a foreign occupation. Interesting Delcrat never mentions the Palestinian curriculum
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/patext1.html
or if that is too Jew-biased for you,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/578102/posts
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=30775
I, of course dont think you will give those links a fair look.. or will write them off as a Jewish-conspiracy meant to make the peacefull Palestinian war lords look like angels..
This is what they are teaching their children in school… as well as forcing THEIR OWN children to be suicide bombers… yet you defend them and paint Israelis as the aggressors who only want war. Millions in aid goes to Gaza and the West Bank FROM ISRAEL, but it gets spent on rockets that are fired back at Israel by Hamas… a good upstanding community group.
Get your head out of your pro-terror ass. I am sick of your ignorant reactionary anti Israel shit. Yes, there are war hawks like the Likud party in the Israeli Parliament but your irrational defense of the Palestinian Authority who has NO interest in peace.. only power shows how one sided and shallow your world veiws are. Only totality right or totally wrong… you are the Glenn Beck of the Left
And can I just say..before you jump up my rear with charges that i hate Pelestinians… the bad guys as I see them are the ones in charge of the Palestinina authority and Hamas… not the Palestinian people whom i know… from ACTUALLY HAVING BEEN TO ISRAEL MULIPLE TIMES… are not only interested in ending the violence, but want a peaceful coexistence
It is sickening how this scenario seems to measure its success by prompting a violent Israeli response rather than by actually closing the settlements.
Stopping the violence is actually Israel’s precondition for negotiating the settlements. Israel has said settlements are off the table until the violence stops. So it would be a good thing all around if Palestinians meet this condition by adopting peaceful techniques.
Look – personally, I think both sides are being fueled by racists on their fringe. To say that Palestinians are teaching their children to be human bombs is somewhat disingenuous. Some lunatics teach their kids that, just like some crazed fundies in the US teach their kids that killing Dr. Tiller was a net good for the world.
Check out the lunatics in this video about the “Colonization of Birmingham”. The tell in this video is when the narrator points out that “we are at war with these people”… Really? Are you at war with everyone that practices Islam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zJItgrdkVM
Yes, I know there are Muslim that are equally stupid, racist and thuggish. Sadly, both sides will continue to have innocents killed to satisfy the blood-lust of their fringe.
“Stopping the violence is actually Israel’s precondition for negotiating the settlements.”
Israeli violence is actually a precursor to Israeli settlements.
delacrat, you still have not answered the question regarding non-violence.
Well, Kristof admits it. The Israeli army would likely repeatedly attack non-violent protestors, including women and children. Has anybody other than anon even questioned this premise?
But I guess it is easier to wish for non-violent Palestinian women “to be tear-gassed, beaten and arrested” for a television spectacle than it is to call for suspending aid to Israel until they begin to dismantle their settlements.
It is always easier to demand that those armed with sticks and rocks disarm than it is to demand the same of those armed with tanks and nuclear weapons.
The political situation in the US and Israel is kind of interesting. Both have elections coming up.
Currently Israel is observing a freeze on new settlements, which expires this September.
If Netanyahu extends the freeze, his wingnuts will exact a penalty and he will likely lose his parliamentary majority.
But if Obama is seen as pressuring Israel, the pro-Israel lobby will exact its price on the Congressional elections, and Obama might lose the Democratic majority in one or more houses.
Apparently neither Obama nor Netanyahu thinks the settlements are worth losing their majorities over. A bit craven, but that’s how it is.
But I guess it is easier to wish for non-violent Palestinian women “to be tear-gassed, beaten and arrested” for a television spectacle
A few well-placed provocateurs will get the job done, with Palestinian film crews in place and ready to send their footage on for careful editing, then release to the press.
If the IDF wants to end the protest peacefully, all they have to do is throw a cordon around it, then right outside the cordon set up a hot buffet and a line of freshly cleaned Porta Pottys. The whole thing will be over in 72 hours.
another predicable response from Mel Delcrat
Did anybody other than Nemski bother reading the column before jerking a knee? Here’s the concluding paragraph; like the entire column, it paints neither side as all good or all bad:
“I don’t know whether Palestinians can create a peaceful mass movement that might change history, and their first challenge will be to suppress the stone-throwers and bring women into the forefront. But this grass-roots movement offers a ray of hope for less violence and more change.”
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Israelis and Palestinians stopped fighting before their supporters in America did?
Spot on Geezer, spot on.
Not so ironic. The most combative Israelis in Israel are American.
Did anybody other than Nemski bother reading the column before jerking a knee? Here’s the concluding paragraph…
The lede for this story is the premise that women will peacefully block settlement roads and then inevitably be beaten and gassed by Israeli troops. The premise is unlikely and inflammatory, and therefore that is what is attracting comments here, as well it should.
If Nemski wanted a conversation about Kristof’s concluding paragraph he could have quoted that instead.
peaceful protests always work. Look at the hundreds of thousands that marched against Iraq. Not a single violent outbreak.
Palestinians should take a lesson from Middle and Low class Americans. Take to the streets with your hands in your pockets and really show people you want change.
anon is a typical American. Blame your lack of effort (a click and read) on someone else.
Where did you get the idea I didn’t read the article?
I did read it. I just don’t have anything to say about bland cliches like “they’ll never stop fighting” or “there’s enough blame to go around.”
The people who put out those cliches in place of actual thought are the lazy ones.
still waiting on Delcrat’s (probably conspiracy theory laded) response to what the Palestinian Authority teaches their children… im sure it is all Israel’s fault but i want to see why he thinks that.
“Israeli security forces … were flummoxed by peaceful Palestinian women. Even when beaten and fired on with rubber bullets, the women persevered.”
It takes a special kind of man like Nemski and Kristoff to advise women to submit themselves to be “beaten and fired on with rubber bullets” .
still nothin on those text books huh? Guess it doesnt fit your “the palestinians are innocent victems” narrative… so like any good teabagger, ya just ignore it.
still waiting on Delcrat’s (probably conspiracy theory laded) response to what the Palestinian Authority teaches their children… im sure it is all Israel’s fault but i want to see why he thinks that.
By your “reasoning”, Palestinians should invade New York City whenever anything anti-palestinian is uttered in a yeshiva.
??? explain that one. All i did was present facts that show the Palestinian “government” orders their children brainwashed in school to be soldiers against their own self interest. You, as always, managed to not answer the question and turn it into something totally different to fit your argument, facts be damned.
a.price – I read those last two links and found them to be not as damning as you suggest. One of them was from 2001 and the newer one was 2006. The excerpts selected were without context, and could easily be misrepresented. I’m not saying that they are, just that they are not convincing to the untrained, yet critical, eye.
Sorry, but if the book is a Language Arts book, it could certainly be a part or description of a poem. Of the 10 examples cited by the 2006 article, 4 had citations from the same book. One was from a Home Economics book.
I am certain that there are passages in Israeli textbooks that will give short shrift to the Palestinians in a way that the PA did the Israelis.
That said, in the US, we still have hundreds of references to Native Americans as Indians and that fail to mention all sorts of dastardly things that the British, French, Spanish and American governments inflicted upon them.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/47093.pdf
there is 2005 report on the matter.
There are also many “educational” programs on Palestinian tv (which, btw the Israeli government does not censor… despite being a tyrannical oppressive nazi-like regime) that teaches children to hate and fear Jews. Having spent a few rainy days inside in Tel-Aviv, i can say i didn’t find any of the same geared toward Israeli children.
While it is true that the Hassidim (the Jewish Taliban) teach THEIR children to hate, they do not usually join the army or actually fight. What would be considered the public school set in Israel learn only about real history and not made up fairy tales about a group of people designed to keep them subservient… unlike the PA who can only survive by mind control.
The US happy history is nothing like the flat out lies told to Palestinian… and really all Arab children to keep the one thing that unites the Arab world intact…. hatred of Jews and Israel.
i’m kinda with Nemski on this one.
What is “non-violent” Delacrat?
I mean, you have had a good bit of time to answer by now….
he cant. “non violent” means “any act of anything against the evil nazi jews.”
What would be considered the public school set in Israel learn only about real history and not made up fairy tales about a group of people designed to keep them subservient
I wonder about “real history” and fairy tales. So much of history is written by the victors that it is virtually impossible to have either side be objective in discussions with their kids.
Like I said, I don’t pretend to know the “truth”, whatever that is, but the link that you gave me for the State Dept. was way more balanced in it’s approach. I am surprised by this, since it was compiled by Bush’s very pro-Israeli State Dept. The nuance of the omissions and phrasing is beyond what I care to parse, for the most part. If the PA doesn’t want to call the land that we call Israel, “Israel” and instead leaves it unlabeled (along with Syria, Jordan and Lebanon). Fine. That is hardly the end of the world or brainwashing.
Not that the report and complaints are without merit, there are certainly a bunch of discrepancies, but hardly what I would refer to as a call to arms.
Let me do something stupid, and try to restate what Delacrat is saying…
The premise of the article is that it would be a turning point for the entire issue if:
a) Palestinian women acted as the representatives of the Palestinians and put themselves in harms way.
b) Israelis would then do bad things to the women in the course of enforcing the “rights” of settlers.
Is it wrong for an outsider to suggest that a group that is seeking rights, give their lives to that cause? Would you ask your Mother or wife to risk such a response?
It is one thing for Martin Luther King to ask African Americans to put their lives on the line to march on Selma. But it would be quite something else for a white man to ask the same.
DV,
Non-violent is when an unarmed Rachel Corrie stood between a Palestinian’s home ( with his 2 daughter’s inside ) and an IDF bulldozer.
Well, non-violent got Rachel run over. (twice)
Non-violent is an unarmed US passenger on the Mavi Marmara destined for the IDF free-fire zone of Gaza.
His non-violence rated 4 IDF bullets to his head.
Since you are so convinced that non-violent is the way to deal with the IDF, it would behoove you to get to Gaza and try it yourself before you preach it to someone else,
No non-violent revolution in the last 200 years has ever been successful without the threat of extreme violence if the non-violent revolutionaries failed. None. But many have failed for the lack of a real threat to the entrenched powers.
So Israel is going to do whatever it wants until the United States cuts its aid. Thus, the Palestinian genocide by the IDF in the Gaza Ghetto will continue while we all watch Oprah and play video games.
And the report on the Flotilla raid? Basically it says that we (the IDF) screwed it up royally but it was good that we killed people.
“No non-violent revolution in the last 200 years has ever been successful without the threat of extreme violence if the non-violent revolutionaries failed. None. ”
Absolute, unadulterated bullshit. Neither Gandhi nor King threatened violence. You have just lost your last shred of credibility.
To say that the Flotilla was a non-violent protest is ludicrous.
“It takes a special kind of man like Nemski and Kristoff to advise women to submit themselves to be “beaten and fired on with rubber bullets” .”
Just as it takes a common sort to advocate an eye for an eye. You have revealed yourself for what you are. Fuck off and stay off.
Geezer, I never said that King or Gandhi threatened violence, but the powers that they were up against know that if they did not negotiate with the non-violent leadership that there would be massive violence, riots, and civil unrest if their respective non-violent movements failed.
To think otherwise is to deny history.
The Flotilla was perfectly non-violent until the IDF came aboard.
The “non-violent” flotilla was in support of a violent regime. Its purpose was to establish a clear route for future weapons shipments. When a warship fires a shot across your bow that is an internationally recognized signal to turn around, but instead they kept steaming toward said violent regime. They are lucky they only got boarded and not sunk outright.
“The “non-violent” flotilla was in support of a violent regime. “
Similar “reasoning” would imply that any exports to the most violent Zionist regime (or the US) are violent.
The non-violent flotilla was bringing humanitarian aid to a people, including children, who are being systematically starved and brutalized by the Israeli government. You can make up all the rationale and excuses for the Israeli government killing innocent civilians that you want, but it doesn’t change the truth of what happened or what is happening.
The blockade of the Gaza Ghetto isn’t about just stopping weapons. It is about the deliberate and slow genocide of the people who live there.
“the powers that they were up against know that if they did not negotiate with the non-violent leadership that there would be massive violence, riots, and civil unrest if their respective non-violent movements failed.”
This is simply not true. This is not “denying history.” You are the one doing that. In both cases the ruling regimes had long histories of using violence to keep the less powerful group powerless. This is why absolute non-violence is the only successful tool. The less powerful group cannot win by using violence. It never has. It never will. Only non-violence can equalize the scales. History is crystal clear on this point.
Geezer wrote, “The less powerful group cannot win by using violence.”
Recent history shows over and over again that “less powerful” groups can and do defeat more powerful regimes in violent struggles. The American Revolution, for example. Russia defeated in Afghanistan. America defeated in Vietnam. And on and on…
Both Britain and the U.S. knew that there would be massive and wide-spread violence and civil unrest if they did not negotiate with Gandhi and King, respectively. In this country, if King’s non-violent movement had ultimately failed, the leadership vacuum would have filled this country with violence. One only has to see the violence that erupted after he was murdered to understand this.
The non-violent flotilla was bringing humanitarian aid to a people
That ship had no weapons. The next ships probably would, if the first ones had succeeded in breaking the blockade. What they want is a clear path for Iranian weapons to enter without inspection. Israel would be irresponsible to allow that.
Gazans are not starving. They have made a choice to endure a siege in order to uphold their political position. They have food; what they do not have is supplies to build a stronger state for making war on Israel.
That ship had no weapons. The next ships probably would, if the first ones had succeeded in breaking the blockade.
Actually, If the US stopped shipping israel weapons, there would be no need for humanitarian aid to Gaza.
And is it not outrageous that Congress will cut-off unemployment benefits to US citizens, but aid to israel is sacrosanct? Evidently, Congress is israeli-occupied territory.
anon, I didn’t know that you were so supportive of collective punishment and killing innocent people for things that may or may not happen in the future.
In regards to “Gazans are not starving,” read what the Red Cross had to say last month:
“As the ICRC has stressed repeatedly, the dire situation in Gaza cannot be resolved by providing humanitarian aid. The closure imposed on the Gaza Strip is about to enter its fourth year, choking off any real possibility of economic development. Gazans continue to suffer from unemployment, poverty and warfare, while the quality of Gaza’s health care system has reached an all-time low.
The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law.”
But it’s OK with you when the Israeli government behaves exactly like Nazis.
“http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/palestine-update-140610
As the ICRC has stressed repeatedly, the dire situation in Gaza cannot be resolved by providing humanitarian aid.
Exactly. So what was the point of the flotilla again? Oh yeah – to establish an inspections-free shipping route for weapons.
Gazans must make political choices if they want to rebuild their economy through normal trade and economic activity.
I feel bad for delcrat and a1. brainwashed by Hamas into thinking they are something other than a terrorist organization. Also standing up for Jordan and Egypt who threw many “ethnic palestinians” out of their country because they were violently attacking other people.
They both think they are fighting against sone crule dictatorship, when in reality that is exactly what the enemies of Isreal need them to beleive so they can continue using the Palestinians as a proxy to kill jews.
If either of you knew any single fact about the history or current political situation in Israel, neither of you would bother spewing your bs.
If the Israeli government began herding Palestinian families into gas chambers, I am sure that both of you would stand up and cheer while claiming that it was their own fault. After all, denying the Palestinians food, medical care, clean water, and other essentials achieves essentially the same result.
you son of a bitch.
how dare you even try to draw that comparison. The PA is the enemy here. Why cant you get that through your thick jew-hating skull. All the “aid” that goes to Gaza and the West Bank get s stolen BY hamas (who you seem you support) and the Palestinian authority and gets traded for rockets to fire at Israel and guns to give to Palestinian children. Their own “government” denies them aid, yet you support the actions of terrorists who support extremist Islamic rule. Keep your head in the sand, buddy. Hopefully the adults will work it out.
To restore a normal economy, Gaza needs to make peace with Israel. But if they do that, then the money from Iran and other radical Arab contributors dries up.
War is a moneymaker for
GazaHamas. The aid from radical Arabs is greater than the amount Gaza can earn at peace.Of course, it would be better to be at peace, but Gaza has not chosen that path.
If Gazans had any sense, they would tell Iran to shoot their own damn rockets at Israel themselves and face the consequences, rather than hiring Hamas to do it for them.
“To restore a normal economy, Gaza needs to make peace with Israel.”
Israel and the US (but I repeat myself) needs to stop telling Gaza (and the rest of the world) what to do and clean-up their own messes at home.
Yes, the people with sticks and rocks must be the ones to make peace with the ones with tanks and nuclear bombs who are stealing their lands and killing their children. It is completely the responsibility of the Palestinians, because, of course, the Israeli government can do no wrong.
The comparison is simple, a.price. Just read the ICRC report:
“The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law.”
I guess your only response can be is that the ICRC must all be “jew-hating” (sic), too.
Israel is not telling Gaza what to do. They are changing facts on the ground in response to the things Gaza chooses to do. If Gaza wants different facts they need to make different choices. That is how sovereign nations interact.
Yes, the Israeli government is not telling Gaza what to do. It is just killing them slowly, instead.
It is just killing them slowly, instead.
That leaves them with lots of time and lots of incentive to make the right choices.
sorry a1, i forgot israel has used nuclear weapons on gaza… oh wait.. only in your mind.
“If Gazans had any sense, they would tell Iran to shoot their own damn rockets at Israel themselves and face the consequences, rather than hiring Hamas to do it for them.”
spot the hell on, anon.
The Palestinian people are pawns being used by their own “government”, terror groups (humanitarian groups for a1 and delcrat) like Hamas, and the rest of the Arab workd to carry out war on Israel. But the fact remains that Palestinian people fire rockets FROM Gaza and the West Bank into Israel and people expect the Israelis to just give them more money. are you totally insane? IN order for there to be peace, the Arabs have to love their own children more than they hate the Jews.
Do you think Israel (with the exception of the right wing Likud party) with all it’s potential for economic success wants to waste time with a people who have been kicked out of all the surrounding countries? (yes, indeed Jordan and Egypt’s treatment of Palestinians was closer to you ignorant and offensive “gas chamber” tripe)
You have such a twisted view of what is actually going on. Stop bemoaning the poor members of Hamas and take a position that actually supports peace rather than defeat of one side.
But you guys have proven on this site time and again you are only capable of holding shallow black or white opinions on a matter. if it is too complicated, you compare it to the Holocaust and blame Obama or something immature and ill informed like that.
“The American Revolution, for example. Russia defeated in Afghanistan. America defeated in Vietnam. And on and on…”
In every case you cite, it is a native population repelling an invader, except for those involving revolution. In those I cite, they are co-habitating groups.
“Yes, the people with sticks and rocks must be the ones to make peace with the ones with tanks and nuclear bombs who are stealing their lands and killing their children.”
Exactly. This is how non-violence works — instead of seeking to equalize power, it demonstrates more starkly the lopsided use of force by the oppressor, triggering loathing in the rest of the world. It requires sacrifice and martyrdom. Have you ever heard of those working, or do you just want to see violence, however justified?
“It is completely the responsibility of the Palestinians”
Nobody is saying any such thing. That’s you projecting. In fact, your entire argument consists of projections of your own lack of power onto an oppressed population. Get some help for your own issues and leave this one to the psychologically healthy. And no, I don’t mean the Israel supporters. They are your co-dependent violence addicts.
“Yes, the Israeli government is not telling Gaza what to do. It is just killing them slowly, instead”
Israel is fighting Hamas and other self proclaimed terror groups which, unless i am mistaken, you have yet to denounce.
The Palestinians need to rise up against these terror groups because Hamas has no interest in peace or the well being of Palestinians. Many high ranking members of Hamas aren’t even from the area. Just carpet-baggers who kill children and get weak minded Americans on their side.
I am not advocating for violence at all, Geezer. I am just pointing out the historical truth – in every successful non-violent movement, there was a seething violent faction in the wings waiting to jump in. It is part of the genius of Gandhi and King that they were able to suppress this violence long enough to achieve their goals.
Furthermore, for every successful non-violent movement, there are multiple failed ones. I would posit that part of the reason for these failures is that the entrenched powers were not threatened by the consequences of crushing it.
In regards to Gaza, anon and a.price are saying that it is completely the responsibility of the Palestinians, and anything that the Israeli government does is justified.
Until the Israeli government feels some consequences for their actions in terms of cutting-off aid from the United States and international condemnation, they have no incentive to make peace. They’ll just keep killing Palestinians and stealing their land, without consequence.
In regards to Gaza, anon and a.price are saying that it is completely the responsibility of the Palestinians
Gaza has agreed to serve as a proxy for the annihilationist ambitions of Israel’s enemies. That is a political choice that has cost Gaza dearly. If they really want peace and normalization, they can stop it any time they want. Gaza should tell Iran to shoot its own damn rockets at Israel if it wants to.
“Gaza has agreed to serve as a proxy for the annihilationist ambitions of Israel’s enemies.”
This is gibberish.
“Until the Israeli government feels some consequences for their actions in terms of cutting-off aid from the United States and international condemnation, they have no incentive to make peace. They’ll just keep killing Palestinians and stealing their land, without consequence.”
Until uniformed trolls realize it is Hamas (still waiting for you to admit they are a terror group and not saints) who is preventing aid from reaching Palestinians, the anti israel crowd will be louder than the sane.
Gaza has not agreed to serve as a proxy, but Hamas has agreed to USE Gaza as a proxy.
Gaza has not agreed to serve as a proxy, but Hamas has agreed to USE Gaza as a proxy.
Gaza elected Hamas, and can un-elect them if they want.
Hamas would probably shoot its own people to stay in power, but that’s what happens when you get in bed with terrorists.
“Israel is fighting Hamas and other self proclaimed terror groups which, unless i am mistaken, you have yet to denounce. …and your point is ?
“The Palestinians need to rise up …” Do they owe you something? Who are you to say what they should do?
…against these terror groups…” what’s a “terror group” ? The Irgun, Mossad?
…because Hamas has no interest in peace or the well being of Palestinians. “ That’s your opinion, I’d say the palestinians opinion of Hamas counts for more than yours.
“Many high ranking members of Hamas aren’t even from the area.” Naturally, you don’t cite any facts to back up your statement. Many Israeli’s aren’t from the area either. They’re from Europe (eg. Menachem Begin),
Well, we all got suckered into a discussion of Gaza, even though this thread was about potential protests against settlements. There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza.
Actually, there have been very few attacks on Israel coming from the PA recently. This is due to efforts of the Abbas government, but unfortunately also due to Israel’s policies of separation, with tight restrictions on border crossings. So even though the violence has been greatly reduced, the relations are far from normal.
I agree the US should pressure Israel to remove the settlements, but realistically this pressure will have to happen behind closed doors.
“Actually, there have been very few attacks on Israel ….”
Of course. Attacks on Israel … are the only attacks anon thinks should be of any concern to us.
” I agree the US should pressure Israel to remove the settlements,” Sure you agree.
…” but realistically this pressure will have to happen behind closed doors.” Ah yes. “Quiet diplomacy” otherwise known as… silent diplomacy…. doing absolutely nothing.
I said “realistically,” which doesn’t leave much room for you to contribute to the discussion.
Open pressure on Israel causes political problems for the US and for Israel, and makes the desired outcome less likely rather than more likely.
Yes, somehow the continued slow extermination of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will cause less political problems for the US and for Israel, so it is OK then. And the Israeli government gets what they want – dead Palestinians, stolen land, and U.S. tax dollars. Sweet.
…because Hamas has no interest in peace or the well being of Palestinians. “ That’s your opinion, I’d say the palestinians opinion of Hamas counts for more than yours.
delcrat, you reveal yourself as uneducated with that statement. It is a fact that Hamas is a terror group with the publicly stated mission of killing every israeli (although they dont admit Israel exists) and enforcing fundamentalist Islamic rule… so i guess you dont care much about women’s rights either.
“so i guess you dont care much about women’s rights either.”
Kristoff and your warped idea of women’s rights are that women should expose themselves to IDF “beatings and rubber bullets”.
And you are fine with them being stoned to death and married off at age 12 i suppose…. which is what would happen under Hamas rule.
There is really not much more to say to you about this. Your false understanding of what Hamas actually is and what the relationship of the Palestinians actually is to the rest of the Arab world prevents you from actually taking a meaningful part in the discussion.
The people in charge of the Palestinians want only 2 things. The total and violent destruction of Israel, and to impose fundamental Islamic rule on the people who are left…. and i wouldn’t rule out REAL ethnic cleansing either.
They got you, dc and a1… they got your bleeding heart by a string and have made you feel bad for them…. NOT the innocent Palestinian people who want peace…. but Hamas and those in control. they are playing you like a cheap minaret and you defense of their evil practices is helping the conflict continue.
thank you for contributing to the continued violence. Hamas thanks you, the Mullahs in Iran thank you. They cant do it without you.