Thursday Open Thread
Welcome to your Thursday open thread. Today is Return Day – who’s attending? What do you expect to see? Will O’Donnell show up? It means mixing among the rabble, which she is loathe to do. If she shows up, I think it means she’s running in 2012 (Lord help us).
There were a lot of bad outcomes from Tuesday’s elections (Delaware being an exception) but there was at least on good outcome. The Colorado “fetal personhood” amendment went down to defeat:
Colorado “fetal personhood” amendment goes down in flames.
This illustrates that abortion is like federal spending cuts; criminalizing abortion requires focusing on the abstract rather than the specific. “Pro-lifers” can be a pretty sizable group in the abstract, but start talking about constitutional amendments that would actually make obtaining abortions a serious criminal offense and require that sanctions not be applied selectively and support for criminalization vanishes as quickly as support for spending cuts vanishes if it’s ever made clear that this means “slashing defense, Medicare and Social Security” rather than “limiting welfare recipients to one Cadillac a year.”
Who’d a thunk that throwing women in jail and requiring more government bureaucracy to track the state of women’s wombs would have been unpopular?
There was another, lesser known bad outcome on Tuesday. In Iowa, social conservatives started a campaign to oust the judges who voted to allow gay marriage. It succeeded. Three justices who ruled in favor of gay marriage lost their “retention” election.
Three Iowa Supreme Court justices lost their seats Tuesday in a historic upset fueled by their 2009 decision that allowed same-sex couples to marry.
Vote totals from 96 percent of Iowa’s 1,774 precincts showed Chief Justice Marsha Ternus and Justices David Baker and Michael Streit with less than the simple majority needed to stay on the bench.
Their removal marked the first time an Iowa Supreme Court justice has not been retained since 1962, when the merit selection and retention system for judges was adopted.
…
Not everyone agreed with Vander Plaats or the majority of voters.
“In the end, the aggressive campaign to misuse the judicial retention vote, funded by out-of-state special interests, has succeeded,” Drake University Law School Dean Allan Vestal said. “The loss of these three justices is most unfortunate, and the damage to our judicial system and the merit selection of judges will take much to repair.”
I’m sure it won’t surprise you to learn that the campaign was financed by shady, out-of-state rich people. Now conservatives in Iowa think they have momentum to try to repeal marriage rights for LGBT people.
I do have mixed feelings about the ruling. I understand the reason for long appointments of judges so they can make rulings outside of political considerations. However, lifetime appointments like SCOTUS make me uncomfortable. We probably have at least 20 more years of Roberts and Alito. Can we have expiring appointments instead?
Tags: Open Thread
Stone Cold Genius
I’m off to ask this scientist if he can build us one of these who will just keep recycling the arguments with the asshole A1.
It seems not to be programmed with the capacity to learn from external events. It will be a fine replacement for your side of the argument.
I’m w/ you. I don’t like electing judges and I don’t like appointing them for life. In DE they are are appointed for 9 years, I think, and can be reappointed. That sounds about right to me.
Reformed purity Nazi ‘fesses up, apologizes, has his Lee Atwater conversion:
Reformed purity Nazi ‘fesses up, apologizes, has his Lee Atwater conversion:
Gee, one guy finally got it.
Thanks for posting this anon.
Maybe the rest of the timid democrats will read it.
But it won’t sink in.
They really need to be slapped around.
I’d love the job.
Take out some of the “anger issues” I’ve been accused of having on here by the psychiatrists man ques on here.
“I’m not a psychiatrist, but I saw an episode of In Treatment on HBO. The sound was down and I was drunk but I think I got the gist of it.”
Sorry, chief, but when you’re tossed out of a public rally for being an asshole, you don’t have to watch “In Treatment” to know you have a problem. And I say this as someone who actually agrees with you on policy.
An inability to see fault with yourself is a signature trait of the conservative worldview. You aren’t doing yourself any favors by emulating it.
Sorry, chief, but when you’re tossed out of a public rally for being an asshole, you don’t have to watch “In Treatment” to know you have a problem.
I dare you to say that to Ginger Gibson.
That difference is, Ginger is no asshole. It was those doing the ‘kicking’ that earned that title.
That difference is, Ginger is no asshole.
Of course. But the First Amendment is not a popularity contest.
Not following you…are you claiming she stretched her journalistic bounds?
anon means that being an asshole isn’t illegal.
It wasn’t a contest to see who the biggest asshole on the premises was. Sam Lathem would always win that competition. Having a bigger asshole on the premises did not make Skip something other than an asshole — just the runner-up.
You can try to justify this from now until the 12th of Never. It’s not going away. Lots of people have gone to jail multiple times for civil disobedience without shouting profanities and vulgarities. Stop trying to make the behavior some form of commendable act. He could have shouted the exact same things without the bad language and he’d have a much better case.
People like this hurt the progressive effort. They do not help it. Controlled rage is useful. Uncontrolled rage is not.
The Delaware GOP is at it again. The Paul Clark scenario is being relived as failed State Senate candidate Mike Fleming won’t release info on the special election for NCC Prez. Why?
Simple. Fleming has no standing committee and most spots are unfilled so he will fill them only for the special election to prop up Valihura who is an attorney with numerous conflicts of interest. Plus to think he could win when he got beat in one of the best GOP districts in the state in Brandywine hundred. We in Brandywine asked him to run for AG, Insurance Commissioner and for his old seat but he refused.
Why the change? A last gasp of control from the clowns at the Headquarters and the simple fact Patty Hobbs of Greenville who has 150 acres on rt 52 wants control of the land use process. Sound familiar? Sort of like Paul Clark and Pam Scott. Hobbs is old money delaware royalty of the worst kind.
Valihura was wayne Smith’s pet and lackey who tried three times to get his corporate lawyer wife a job as US Attorney despite no criminal background and also as a Judge yet she was reduced to nothing by the Bush Administration.
And you thought the GOP might not be under the control of Greenville anymore? Think again kemosabe.
The NJ reporter is new and we need a tough reporter to uncover this unseemly alliance, pay to play.
Let’s do an O’Donnell type look at Valihura. he failed to make partner at any law firm , lost job as state rep, wife kicked him out so how does he earn money? or does he earn anything?
I smell a rat.
“I smell a rat.” Protack must have shown up. I can’t believe it took this long after the election for the Protack sock puppets to hit the airwaves. Only Protack can unite the Party. Only Protack can win the special election. Only Protack loves Protack.
Awww…look who’s back.
-1) Doesn’t like Fleming. Check.
-2) Doesn’t like Valihura. Check.
-3) Doesn’t like Smith, W. Check.
-4) Doesn’t like Greenville. Check.
-5) Comments under a cutsie name. Check.
-6) That cutsie name is a poorly pitched curveball. Check.
“Millcreek Complainer, ad nauseum”, would have been better.
Anvil – I thought Protack as soon as I read that comment.
Geezer – Just to be clear, I was not endorsing assholish behavior, just pointing out that it is protected. If you want to be a jerk, great. Just don’t be surprised when the rest of us call you a jerk.
Hey, I just realized that this whole comment was about Protack.
“It wasn’t a contest to see who the biggest asshole on the premises was. Sam Lathem would always win that competition.”
Why do you say this, sport? Oh, I know. He is a union man and that makes him ipso facto an asshole. Right, Geezer? Your bigotry is showing.
Skippertee, they didn’t hear you:
“Had” to?
A little perspective on the
MillcreekBrandywine Complainer, who amazingly dropped in today, the same day as that report:From today’s News Journal:
Well, he should dismiss those suggestions, because he also lost a five-way Primary back in 1998 (which happened to be won by Valihura). At least he finished 3rd in that and not 5th. Same consolation CoD should take in finishing second to Coons, I guess.
That would make him FIVE-time. Duly noted, MP, duly noted.
Perhaps in the old days they would have shot the guy. Or punched him in the face. That may be preferable to what happened to him eventually, but on the whole, I’d rather be tased than shot or punched in the face with an indeterminate level of force.
I reserve the right to be wrong about this, of course. I don’t know the details any more than anyone else on this thread.
Torture by Taser electrocution is becoming a routine part of the police state in this country. Ho-hum.
Whatever happened to defusing the situation?
perennial Republican candidate Mike Protack said he mailed letters to 300 Republicans across the county, asking them to consider his candidacy for the job.
“Protack was immediately endorsed by sixteen anonymous blog commenters.”
I’d rather be tased than shot
False dichotomy. Neither should be done to you for “refusing to cooperate.” A taser is (obviously) a deadly weapon, so the same rules should apply as for a gun.
Protack can’t win elections because he’s a creepy asshole and no one ever votes for him.
If you can’t get people to vote for you, you aren’t going to win an election.
It’s just that fucking simple.
The End.
After the murder of DEREK HALE and the subsequent clearing of Sgt. Browne, some 6 or 7 young black men have been shot by cops in Wilmington and the shooters all cleared.
I’m not accusing anyone in these cases.I don’t have the facts.
But I will point out that is an unusually large number of deaths for a city of Wilmington’s size.
And not a peep from the ACLU…..
Did the killing of a WHITE ex/marine give the cops the nod to clean up the city?
BTW, they’re doing a piss-poor job.
Wilmington is sure to beat it’s record for most killings by the end of November.
Return Day was rainy and not as crowded as 2 years ago, since Joe didn’t show up. Saw Congressman Castle at Battle Robinson’s house and he marched the parade route with Sens. Carper and Kaufman. Richard Korn could not take the spirit of the day and ride with Wagner. COD was on the carriage with Coons (facing backwards as is tradition for the loser of the top race) and they both held the hatchet before it was buried. Celia Cohen was there and a number of us were looking for the hatchet to bury in her. Beau was there and looked good. Lots of free food and booze at all of the lawyers offices.
And a number of us are already talking about 2012.
Can the brother get his balls back????
They called you names
Talked about your parents
Called you liar at your first State of the Union
Show up with guns at your town halls
Told you they would not work with you
So I ask what’s next calling you the N-WORD before you get it!!!!
MJ sums it up well. It was great to be a part of it and Dan Gaffney and I had a great time announcing. John Atkins jogged the route with a huge grin. Former Governor Minner put in an appearance. Christine behaved civilly and even invited me to her open house. Fuqua, Yori and Willard won the prize with the best Clam Chowder I’ve had in years.
And speaking of Tim Willard he approached me personally regarding my posts around his involvement in The John Brady race for Sussex Recorder of Deeds. He gave me his word as a gentleman that he had not worked against John. He sought me out and looked me in the eye and that is good enough for me. And thanks Tim for getting me back on the right side of the security lines right before the parade started. All in all it was nice but a little damp Return Day 2010 and I for one had a great time!
There is a thing called the continuum of force in police work. Here is one that specifically talks about tasers:
http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm
The taser is labeled as force level 4 (along with pepper spray and baton), whereas deadly force is level 6. Actually Derek Hale would probably still be alive if he had been tased.
Now maybe we need to have a discussion about whether the taser should be higher in the continuum, but bullshit talk about a police state isn’t going to get us there.
Yes, “bullshit talk” about the 8th amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishments and the 5th amendment right to due process of law is meaningless compared to citing the POLICE CONTINUUM OF FORCE, which obviously supersedes the Constitution, particularly in a America’s 21st Century police state.
Torture by electric shock used to be illegal in this country but now is practiced routinely simply to force citizens to obey police officers. It is used in traffic stops, on children, on elderly and mentally disabled without a second thought. And nevermind that it too often kills innocent people.
I am sad to see LG how quickly you defer to police authority while disregarding the most basic Constitutional and human rights of free people. Free and just societies don’t permit the willy-nilly use of torture and deadly force on its citizens as is demonstrably the case of Tasers in America today.
Bullshit, indeed.
A1…your stance is certainly clear and I agree that the Tazer is used too quickly in a lot of cases. Question, though, and this isn’t specific to last night, as none of us know everything, except what is in the paper, when a suspect is thrashing violently, refuses to comply and proceeds to start injuring one of the police on the scene, what’s next?
Free and just societies don’t permit the willy-nilly use of torture and deadly force on its citizens as is demonstrably the case of Tasers in America today.
Please demonstrate. Because you have not shown it here.
More on Tasers in America from Amnesty International:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20060328001
I was going to quote from it, but just read it. And that report was written in 2005. What has been done since to control Taser use? Nothing.
RSmitty, I am not saying that there aren’t times when use of a Taser is justified. But it should be considered deadly level force, and each time it is used should require a thorough investigation as is done when a firearm is discharged. In America, we are supposed to have civil rights and police are supposed to be subject to laws when they violate those rights, however, that has become another one of those quaint ideas that has been mostly surrendered by the citizenry without a peep.
Rule of law? So we have an ex-president bragging about ordering torture, cops tazing people with impunity, a current President who believes he can secretly kill citizens anywhere in the world without due process, and banks flat-out stealing people’s property. Plus, we have the highest per-capita number of citizens in jail.
How can anyone deny that we don’t live in a police state?
Smitty, come on:
when a suspect
Suspected of what?
is thrashing violently,
What exactly is the problem with thrashing? If someone is thrashing violently, call an ambulance – don’t electrocute him. Unless he is hurting himself or somebody else, back off and wait for him to get tired.
refuses to comply
Comply with what? Since when are tasers allowed to be used to compel compliance with anything? How is “compelling compliance” different from torture?
and proceeds to start injuring one of the police on the scene
Right. The deceased slammed his head into one officers fist scraping the officer’s hand badly, and then rammed his kidney into the other officer’s knee, causing an knee ache that lasted for hours.
Let’s see if independent eyewitnesses emerge. I wouldn’t even be surprised if there is video.
So, anon, I made it clear to not reference last night as none of us here know what happened last night. I did that, because I wanted to be somewhat certain that I could think I would get a clear answer. There are times when an officer is assaulted, just as there are times when there is clear brutality by an officer. It happens both ways. I have no clue what exactly went down last night and neither do you.
So, I reiterate, not using last night, given the scene where an officer is being injured (no, anon, I am not saying the victim last night did this), what then? Tazer? Club? Fists? Gun? Ask politely for him/her to stop? What?
It’s a question that is a conundrum. When is force OK, if ever?
liberalgeek-Derek Hale WAS tasered. At least seven times.
He was twitching, vomiting and as he fell FORWARD his right arm started to come out of his front sweatshirt pocket.That’s when he was shot three times in the chest with a .40 caliber gun. This comes from SWORN testimony.
Plus he had been under secret constant surveillance for two hours beforehand.
Wait til the jury sees that! He was teaching a kid to ride a two-wheel bike.
BTW,when the 14 SWATTIES pulled up he was LOUDLY given conflicting orders:
1-DON’T MOVE!
2-PUT YOUR HANDS UP!
Again = SWORN testimony.
Like I said, his widow will soon be rolling in cash, courtesy of Sgt. Browne.
Since skippertee and liberalgeek brought it up (I missed geek’s note earlier), the case that involved Hale was most certainly where the use was absolutely unwarranted and every-and-anything else just went completely wrong and could have been avoided. There is a reason people are pissed at Biden and/or his office over this and I have to say that I agree with their stand.
That said, though, I still have that question that I asked and am painfully trying to remove last night’s scene out of the thought process.
Oh,the sworn testimony I’m referring to is from the COPS at the scene and involved.
I think you got generic answers to your generic questions.
I agree we don’t know what happened last night. If there is video I hope it is located soon by well-meaning people.
geezer, you said this while back, but here-freaking-here
” You can try to justify this from now until the 12th of Never. It’s not going away. Lots of people have gone to jail multiple times for civil disobedience without shouting profanities and vulgarities. Stop trying to make the behavior some form of commendable act.”
That’s right, Dana. He’s union, just like you. Which means he’s compromised, just like you. It’s not bigotry, it’s animosity.
But it should be considered deadly level force, and each time it is used should require a thorough investigation as is done when a firearm is discharged.
Fine, I have no problem with this. But that is way more constructive than referring to the use of a taser as willy-nilly and part of the police-state. You want to discuss its proper role in the continuum of force, great! Seriously.
But to refer to the police state as torturing its citizenry for having a less-lethal-than-a-firearm in its continuum of force is not a conversation starter. It is a conversation killer.
I don’t see a need for multiple tasings of a suspect, I don’t see why you would tase a guy in handcuffs. We can start there.
Geezer–you “out” yourself with your comments here, especially when you repeat them (minus the “off-color” words) in other media.
Dana Garrett–Get over yourself, you fatass loser. You are NOT Michael Moore (though you could pass for him in a smoke-filled room) nor are you the whiny Ben Hamper. Please grow some testicles and spend some time among the rest of us–you know, the people who still have jobs.
a.price-who are you and why are you SO obsessed with ME?
TELL me how MANY obscenities I said.
I’ve told you I would put a dollar in the collection plate for each one.
I can only remember saying GO FUCK YOURSELF to Latham.
If there were more, TELL me, or SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT!!!!
You want to SEE an ANGER ISSUE MOTHERFUCKER, keep it up!!!!
I will gladly meet you anytime and anywhere to SHOW you just how angry this German/Irishman can get, you fucking obsessive weirdo!!!
Are you QUEER for me??
Do you want me to CURSE,PISS and SPIT on you or something?
TELL ME!
I’m unemployed and for the RIGHT PRICE I’d be FUCKING glad to accommodate you, sicko.
Geezer”He’s union, just like you. Which means he’s compromised, just like you. It’s not bigotry, it’s animosity.”
What does this even mean?
What does it refer to?
Did you have your nap today?
I think I’d rather be tazed than bludgeoned with either a nightstick or a maglight. (I’ve had a concussion.) I also think my heart is in pretty good shape, I won’t be getting in a domestic with my wife or a neighbor, and if ordered by an officer to get on the ground, I hope I’ll comply quickly. I also hope that a veteran officer is in charge, and not a rookie. Those are the primary variables, and it can go wrong at any stage.
The other day Cincinnati police used a taser on a bad guy. He got it away from them and tased both cops (who survived), and is still at large.
This is something I have been expecting would happen sooner or later. I really want to see what he will be charged with. Attempted murder? Assault with a deadly weapon? the taser manufacturer must be freaking out at the thought of a court declaring their product be a deadly weapon, or that using it on a human is a murder attempt.
My bet is they do not capture him alive.
INSTANT KARMA
Well,I don’t know the sit-rep.
But still, for the manufacturers, what a conundrum.
I hope they DO capture him, alive.
LG, The willy-nilly use of Tasers is only one aspect or symptom of the growing American police state. I have cited others. Electrocuting citizens with Tasers to gain compliance is brutal torture, nothing less. I don’t know why you think stating that is conversation killer, unless you just don’t want to talk about it, as many people don’t. Sadly, I understand that.
When I grew up and the police in the suburbs only carried guns, they talked to us teenagers whenever we had inter-actions.
In a quiet but AUTHORITATIVE voice.
It was always enough for us.
No one was ever arrested.
We got to know them and them us.
Things are different today,I guess.
Yet this tool, the quiet AUTHORITATIVE voice seems rarely deployed.
“a.price-who are you and why are you SO obsessed with ME?”
that comment wasnt about you. that was for anyone who feels the need to act like a jackass and call it honorable. if you chose to make it about you, that is your issue.
also, try and keep the homophobia down and threats down…. it is also a trait of a teabag to “accuse” someone of being gay, or making thinly veiled threats.
Skip: It was intended for Dana. He knows what it means. And by the way, “You want to SEE an ANGER ISSUE MOTHERFUCKER, keep it up!!!!
I will gladly meet you anytime and anywhere to SHOW you just how angry this German/Irishman can get, you fucking obsessive weirdo!!!”
is a little over the top, no?
Anon40: Thanks for the advice. Golly, I never thought of that. Do you have a problem with the “off color” words?
As I have stated often, I cannot use my real name because one of the so-called “progressives” here tries to use it against me whenever we disagree. I have no problem standing behind what I say.
Geezer,
He will NOT let go of that evening.
HE knows who I am.
I have NO idea what HE looks like.I wish I did.
I have asked,over and over for an accounting of my expletives.
I stood quietly after calling out DEREK HALE and PUSSY as the crowd turned their wraith on me and was embarrassed at my impulsive outburst.
When Lathem came half-way to me screaming for me to GET OUT OF HERE I used the ONE curse word I remember.
Do you think children there were SHOCKED?
Are they NOW trembling in their beds, deeply medicated?
a.price seems to think I’ve scarred these infants for FUCKING life.
I am SICK and TIRED of his CONSTANT IRRITATIONS.
His steady drum-beat thumping me.
I want him to tell me his true problem with ME.
This cannot be it.
Unless,indeed, he’s obsessed.
this is so amusing.
i know a few people who are very offended at the word “pussy” and “go fuck yourself”. I wouldn’t scream it in public because it is tactless and unsophisticated to act like that. So, seems like by your own admission, you owe 2 dollars in the plate. I also dont think you scarred anyone because their parents likely explained to them later that it was just a drunk crazy person and he was hopefully getting help for anger issues.
Also remember pumpkin, everyone on this site knows who you are because you BRAGGED about your actions. you constantly make empty threats of “showing how angry you can get” and talk about some kind of fight you cant wait for…. with the right wing, with the cops, with ME. I dont have a problem with you… you’re probably a nice guy, a little unhinged maybe… but we all are.
What i have a problem with is how you time and again claim to be ready for violence, to be ready to fight the powers and when you back up that teabag talk with teabag action, I feel the need to call you out and call you wrong. The reality is, for every 5 minutes of coverage a Right teabag gets for doing something terrible, if a lefteabag does something, it is a national story for years. If the head stomper had been for Jack Conway, he would have been forced to commit hare kari (conway). It is hard enough without people giving us a bad name and that is what you are doing.
Now, i know when to call it quits. i dont need a bagger hunting me down and showing me what an angry german can do… i’m jewish so that is a terrifying prospect. If you dont want me to talk to you anymore, fine. Just dont make it about YOU when i takla bout lefTeabags harming the cause with their selfish “look at me!” actions.
Sorry, Geezer, but you are wrong, probably lying in fact. I am NOT a union member and don’t work for any unions. Moreover, you are a bigot. I’ve heard you refer to union members as “thugs” on more than one occasion w/o offering a shred of evidence for your claim. Just pure ad hominem. Just like you did when you recently claimed that Joe Biden was the head of an Irish mob operating out of Wilmington. You offered no qualification or proof. You expressed pure hatred and contempt and, so, left a deliberate false impression. A lie. You have a nasty, vicious, mendacious, and vile mouth.
“Dana Garrett–Get over yourself, you fatass loser. You are NOT Michael Moore (though you could pass for him in a smoke-filled room) nor are you the whiny Ben Hamper. Please grow some testicles and spend some time among the rest of us–you know, the people who still have jobs.”
It looks like lying is the order of the day. I have a job, asshole.
omg. This thread is a disgrace. The Republicans are getting ready to devour the country and “liberals” are fighting with each other like this. Restore Sanity??? no chance
OK,a.price,the German thing with you being Jewish I get.
I want to put this behind us.
I have nothing but the highest regard for the Jewish People,their History and Culture.
It connects with mine.
My German ancestry and immigration to this country predates the rise of Fascism by a large margin.And I’m proud of that.
i dont actually think you’re a nazi, dude.
just underastand one thing. There is a nation wise double standard against liberals. It is OK for conservatives to act like apes. no one cares. They can stomp heads, or scream foul language at the president of the united states, and it is “being a free american”
But when a liberal does it, we hate america. It isnt fair, but it is reality. So while i agree with your sentiment and want the same outcome as you, i beg you to understand that it does more harm than good. There are ways of being an activist and practicing civil disobedience that dont hurt the cause.
The saying is: “The more things change , the more they stay the same”….So much for the Tea Party “People’s Revolution”.
The Chairmen: New House Leaders Have Familiar Ties to Business, Revolving Door – The Center for Public Integrity#
Source: http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2628/
.
Censored WILM…its 9:30 and already 3 baggers have called in! Taking over the airwaves is their new game. Anyone who opposes them well you can call once a week.
Anon, there’s been a lot of talk over at Delaware Politics about taking over a NCC radio station.
STOP IT. There is WORK to be done!
“I am NOT a union member and don’t work for any unions.”
You left off “any longer.”
“I’ve heard you refer to union members as “thugs” on more than one occasion w/o offering a shred of evidence for your claim.”
Yes, most of us aren’t in the business of footnoting every statement. I have been threatened by union members often enough that I don’t feel I have to mention it every time I say the word “thugs.”
“Just like you did when you recently claimed that Joe Biden was the head of an Irish mob operating out of Wilmington.”
“Political mafia” is the term to which you’re referring. Do you need something for those vapors you’re suffering?
“You expressed pure hatred and contempt and, so, left a deliberate false impression.”
No, that was quite a true impression. I have hatred and contempt for the Bidens. Sorry if that bothers you. If you don’t think Joe Biden takes revenge on people who cross him, or his pal Tom Gordon, take a look at Colm Connolly.
“You have a nasty, vicious, mendacious, and vile mouth.”
Is that why you don’t call me for your radio show anymore? Gee, I’m so hurt. Have you now completed your scorecard and turned on everyone who used to talk to you, or do you still have a few to go?
You are the last person here — well, maybe the next-to-last — who can without hypocrisy talk about ad hominem attacks.
“You left off “any longer.””\
I haven’t been a dues paying member of a union since I was 19 years old. So ONCE MORE you are leaving a false impression.
“I have been threatened by union members often enough that I don’t feel I have to mention it every time I say the word “thugs.”
I bet you haven’t been threatened even once by a union member. I suspect you are making that up. You have no credibility. I know for a fact that your word can’t be trusted…I KNOW it for a fact.
““Political mafia” is the term to which you’re referring. Do you need something for those vapors you’re suffering?”
You did NOT say political mafia. You said Irish mob. You are lying.
“Is that why you don’t call me for your radio show anymore?”
I quit the show long ago. But if I did have it, I certainly wouldn’t invite you since I now KNOW you are someone who cannot be trusted.
“Have you now completed your scorecard and turned on everyone who used to talk to you, or do you still have a few to go?”
This is meaningless. But to answer what shred of a point you made, I’ve only turned on you since you betrayed something I told you EXPLICITLY in confidence. Now you are on my shit list. You are the only name on it.
See you around, punk.
Ooh, I’m so scared. I’ll leave it to the archives to show anyone who cares how often your “shit list” has been updated.
P.S.: I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Very manful of you to say something to me about it here rather than getting in touch personally — “punk.”
You betrayed the confidence HERE months ago. I’m just following your lead.
But I will say to those who know Geezer’s identity, NEVER trust him with a confidence.
I’ll second that. If you’re not prepared to tell it to everybody, please don’t tell it to me. I don’t do this so that I can learn “inside information” so that I know “what’s really going on.”
Great thread. So many generalizations, so little time…
“There is a thing called the continuum of force in police work. Here is one that specifically talks about tasers:”
A nod to LG for wisely introducing this. I took this out of order for clarity. Please consider:
– Use of force policies are (or should be) based on/around the state’s ‘Use of Deadly Force’ law/statute.
– The policies may vary by agency based on the tools, or weapons, they have at their disposal.
– Some agencies include officer’s presence and voice control as steps in the continuum.
– Even though they are based around a state law, few are consistent between agencies.
“Perhaps in the old days they would have shot the guy. Or punched him in the face.”
There’s a lot of truth in this statement. In the “old days” there were fewer options in the “Use of Force Continuum”. No fancy expandable bludgeons (batons), no Mace/pepper spray (in their various mixtures and concentrations). It was like 0-60 in under three seconds, with fewer speed bumps.
” A taser is (obviously) a deadly weapon, so the same rules should apply as for a gun.”….. “But it should be considered deadly level force, and each time it is used should require a thorough investigation as is done when a firearm is discharged.”
No, it isn’t. The distinction being, unlike a firearm, a taser is not designed to kill. Like the use of physical restraint (hands on), batons and sprays, it is intended to stop or incapacitate the suspect. Please note that any use of force beyond voice control has caused death. But they are not designed, or intended, to do so. A thorough investigation is required (by law) every time there is a use of physical force, regardless of the level.
“Torture by electric shock used to be illegal in this country but now is practiced routinely simply to force citizens to obey police officers. …”
“I don’t see a need for multiple tasings of a suspect, I don’t see why you would tase a guy in handcuffs. ”
I combined these generalizations to illustrate some points:
– While any force has the potential of being abused, the purpose(s) of the taser is to gain compliance, and to stop a crime from progressing. And, you are correct, there is much abuse.
– There are several kinds of tasers:
1. Some that deliver one shock.
2. Some that have the capability of delivering several shocks after the electrodes/barbs are planted, at the discretion of the officer. (This is the one that has the most potential for abuse. They can literally zap a suspect until the battery runs down)
3. Some tasers have built-in video cameras that activate when removed from the holster. (No shit)
4. Some have a combination of the above capabilities.
– Every policy I’ve seen forbids tasing a suspect in handcuffs or restraints, as long as they do not pose a threat.
“The other day Cincinnati police used a taser on a bad guy. He got it away from them and tased both cops (who survived), and is still at large….. I really want to see what he will be charged with. Attempted murder? Assault with a deadly weapon?”
Glad you brought this up. The result should be interesting. When officers have had their batons used against them, the charge is usually assault with a deadly weapon. But, considering that a baton has more potential to kill than a taser, that charge is appropriate.
Miscreant: No snark, I’d be interested in your take on the Derek Hale case.
Everyone is having so much fun explaining the fine points of the Continuum Of Force. What you are forgetting is that that the full C of F does not apply to every annoyance a citizen causes to a cop. If you are trying to get a drunk calmed down and figure out what is going on, it is probably better to stand there and argue with him a while before just shrugging “Oh well, too bad for him” and moving upward along your fucking Continuum Of Force.
I’ve read a couple of accounts, both by what I would consider to be somewhat biased sources. I’ll try to find some more objective accounts, and get back.
I think unjustified police tasings are the tyranny teabaggers keep looking for and not seeing right under their noses. God help me, I think it is a Second Amendment issue. I pray some poor cop doesn’t tase somebody at a traffic stop while the spouse in the car is packing.
If the redcoats had tasers, tasers would have their own grievance entry in the Declaration Of Independence.
anon,
I also think it’s a 1st amendment issue. How much right do you have to be an asshole in public before any kind of force can be used? When do you have to comply with police commands and when can you not?
“If you are trying to get a drunk calmed down and figure out what is going on, it is probably better to stand there and argue with him a while before just shrugging “Oh well, too bad for him” and moving upward along your fucking Continuum Of Force.”
I was just trying to introduce some additional information into a highly generalized conversation. In the meantime, I’m confident that your analogy has some relevance somewhere…
It isn’t even about being “an asshole” (which isn’t illegal, btw). People are tased simply for simply not obeying a police officer’s orders when there is no legal requirement for them to do so.
Unquestioned obedience to police authority under the threat of electroshock torture is becoming a normal requirement of living in the American Police State.