Teabag Republicans Love Pure Bullshit Example 5,572 – The gold standard

Filed in National by on January 11, 2011

There will be a lot written about the fact that the Republican shooter in Arizona wanted a return to the gold standard. The gold standard is a big thing amoung teabaggy 2nd Ammendment Republican gun nuts. Glen Beck has made some great money by telling the morons who follow him to hoard gold.

Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon makes the case that the love of gold among whack-job Republicans has no basis in any intellectual arguments about money supply at all – but is based on shallow emotion.

Most people who have warm and fuzzy feelings when they hear the words “gold standard” get them for reasons that have no pragmatic or intellectual backing whatsoever. I’d say there are two major appeals of this silly obsession:
1) Gold has an old timey feel, and teabaggers love that. In fairy tales and the Bible, people use gold as currency. As we all know, these kinds of fantasies and myths are more real to teabaggers than actual reality.
2) It satisfies their need to believe in a higher, absolute authority. Just like the obsession with believing the Constitution and Bible are non-ambiguous documents that just so happen to agree with everything wingnuts do, and cannot be crossed by mere people, they like to believe that gold is a currency that has intrinsic value that puts it outside the scary world of social constructs and arbitrariness. You get the same obsession, by the way, with English-only thinking. The hope is that there is something solid and unchanging that has value and meaning outside of what humans imbue in it, a sort of final authority they can put their faith in.

The actual effect of having a gold standard has little or no bearing on this. Gold is appealing to the teabagger masses on a strictly emotional level. In fact, one of the major problems with teabaggery in general is that it doesn’t truck with logic or pragmatism, but instead is a bunch of easily manipulated emotional responses. It’s about nostalgia, and pretending you’re “tough” because you automatically prefer other people to suffer, even if you have to pay for it. Which is why, for instance, they oppose health care reform even if it saves money, even though they think of themselves as “fiscally conservative”. They’ll spend more money to make sure some people don’t have health insurance. They need that to shore up a self-image as a bunch of hard asses.

Never assume logic with teabaggers when the more available answer is a knee-jerk emotional response to nostalgia or sadism.

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Jason330 is a deep cover double agent working for the GOP. Don't tell anybody.

Comments (29)

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  1. paratrooper18 says:

    I could go on for hours on this specific topic. The Tea Baggers, are first and foremost tax cheats. The reason they rant so much about taxes is because they want them abolished so they won’t feel as guilty about being tax cheats.

    There is a business at the beach owned by some tea baggers. They have about 150 employees, most are undocumented workers. They have health insurance, but it is a plan that covers their entire familiy and it even covers long term care. ( instead of using a nursing home they charge the insurance company for nurses aids.. Then they hire people through their business, who are not qualifed, to care for the elderly parents ).

    This health care plan is available to employees, for like 2,000 per month ( covering 90 year olds for everything really makes the rate high ).

    Every dime they spend for personal use is through the business. For their kids, everything. Trips around the world.. everything. Xmas presents.

    When they need a new computer in the office. They wait until one of the family needs one at home, then they buy them one and bring in some old pile of crap.

    and the punchline, they hire undocumented workers.

    yeah they are perfect tea baggers.

  2. Liberal Elite says:

    Glen Beck has been selling gold coins as a scam.

    Note that he has NOT been selling investment grade gold bullion coins, but high priced non-bullion Goldline coins.

    He screams that the sky is falling, and you need this gold to save yourself.

    Scam Scam Scam.

  3. paratrooper18 says:

    Liberal, thanks for the clarification.

    Gold is the worst investment on the planet. If you actually want to hedge against currency and inflation, buy crude oil.

    Though liberal nobody should listen to you until: you have a show on cable, and can con thousands of people through dramatic pauses and sounding authoritative while spewing things that have no basis in fact.

    To really watch beck or hannity with full effect you need to play the Music Man in the background, or the Simpson episode that spoof’s it. ( personally I am partial to the Simpson’s monorail version over a very young Opie ).

  4. anon says:

    I guess it is just emotional for the rank and file teabagger, but the gold standard is all about locking in the current inequalities of wealth.

    Under a gold standard, inflation is nearly impossible, since there is a limited supply of gold. Therefore all investors are paid back in hard money, even over the long term. In other words, anybody who is holding a debt instrument will find it suddenly more valuable. And anybody who owes money will find themselves working harder to repay a long-term debt. And the long slow contraction of real wages will become permanent.

    Modern currency is based on labor, not on gold in the vaults or the mines of wealthy capitalists.

    There are a million reasons why it won’t happen, but that is the root of it.

  5. Phil says:

    The fact of the matter is that gold hasn’t really risen or fallen. The dollar has fallen and gold’s high price right now just reflects it. I like the idea about getting crude oil, especially when the dollar loses its status as world reserve currency. Unless things drastically change, that will happen in our lifetime.

    Modern currency right now is based on debt. My problem, is the federal reserve. A for profit bank that (the new bank bill adds some) has no oversight by the people whose currency they control. There really is no need for them when our Treasury Dept is more than capable to expand or contract the money supply without the fed.

    Bottom line is that the way our economy works, you’d think that liberals, especially progressives, woud be against the federal reserve. When they lower the rate, they are lowering the rate of savings for the average worker, and putting it in the hands of wealthy bankers, hedge funds, and brokers.

  6. Paratrooper18 says:

    I have had dealings with the FED, interesting bunch, that is for sure. They actually have two buildings, but their charter specifies an exact location. So the other building is behind the one on Constitution Ave and they have a tunnel connecting them so they can satisfy the specific location clause.

    The value of the dollar is controlled, as are interest rates. For years the US has followed a cheap dollar policy, which means they will buy and sell the dollar as needed to control the exchange rates.

    But they have only so much control. The real problem comes into play this coming year, when the FED will lose control over interest rates.

    You are right about debt, but interest rates are the real determining factor for the dollar.

    One of my primary issues with the tax cuts are that we will have to borrow a ton of money to pay for them. Combine that with the fact that tax revenues have dropped significantly. ( that is the real problem, not spending ).

    I have not figured it out yet, have other things in play right now. But at some point this year interest rates will increase as a function of the new borrowing. And here is what will occur, money will flow into the US as interest rates climb.

    One of the reasons everyone has been pissed at us is because of the low dollar policy.

    A good way to play this mess is to go Aussie or Canada. ( never do Asia directly, always play it through Aussie ).

    The other side effect of the borrowing and dollar rise will be a bad year for stocks. A very bad year.

    There are alot of reasons to be against the Tax cut extension, and interest rate increases will inflict more damage than if we raised taxes. The added cost of borrow on the budget will compound the whole problem.

    Have a nice day.. ( Didn’t want this to be an entirely negative post ).

  7. Gold is like anything else, it has value because people say it has value. As a metal it has some uses, but it’s very soft. I can’t figure out the gold obsession either, except for some vague longing for the olden days.

  8. Beck does talk a lot in apocalyptic terms. I’m not surprised that his advertisers sell survivor seeds and gold coin scams. I guess I still don’t understand the logic that people will want gold if there’s some global collapse. What will they use it for?

  9. Phil says:

    UI, you just summed up every economy since the begining of man.

    Para, you are on to something, sorta. The reason we have this low dollar policy (recently) wasn’t so much a strategy but a result of having to expand the monetary base in order pay our debts. Now when interest rates finally do go up, money will flow in in the form of treasury bond investments. The problem with the rate going up, is that it will make it harder (expensive) to borrow. This will slow economic growth. Anybody who owns a small to medium size business will tell you that it runs on credit.

    One thing that is hard to break is this notion that tax cuts add to debt, or that they need to be paid for. Now bare with me…Taxes fuel this government, and all of the services that it provides, I know this. Look at it this way, I could easily say, “I have this $100 credit card bill because I didn’t make more money this year.” Any business (government)that operates knows that you have to cut back when your income slows.

    You forgot some good news though when the interest rates go up, those who save will be making out. Right now, they are getting raked over the coals.

  10. anon says:

    Any business (government)that operates knows that you have to cut back when your income slows.

    That is how you turn a recession into a depression:

    GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

  11. Phil says:

    Nice cherry picking. now for pie…You still don’t seem to get that we are spending way too much money. increased income is great idea, but you need to temper it with cutbacks. right now the problem isn’t lack of government spending, but corporate spending. They are sitting on the largest cash reserves in a long time.

  12. Paratrooper18 says:

    Phil,
    The low dollar policy is not recent and has been our poicy at least since the mid-90’s. And in part to screw other countries on the trade deficit. and to cheapen borrowing costs.
    Small businesses run on cheating on their taxes, hiring people and not providing benefits or wages, so they shift their costs to the government.
    Which isn’t the tea party argument that government and union benefits and pensions are the cause of the debt? The real question is why don’t all businesses have this problem? Rhetorical questions, they operate by not providing basic benefits, and forcing the government to absorb the costs.

    But I digress.

    The issue of spending vs revenue is very easily resolved. The cost of cutting revenue, again, was not justified and will end up costing everyone more than a minimal tax increase.

    The best return on the borrowing would have been to bailout the states. Which are just starting to adjust to their shortfalls. They will increase taxes and cut spending and payrolls.. Both are impacts to the local economy. Which is going to add to the unemployment numbers.

    The problem is that people do not understand how to look at things beyond the information they want to back a specific political bias. Economics has changed drastically since we are one big global economy.
    Everyone should buy a book on fundamental corporate finance, and economics.
    Interest rising during a recession is bad. Interest rates rising when the economy is growing is good. We forced interest rates and taxes down when we were at the rising edge of a bubble.
    And this recent tax cut extension was not marked up for the how it will impact the interest costs increasing on the federal level.

    The only thing I can say about interest rates, since you are taking a very narrow view, is that interest rate increase force asses to be revalued. It is a requirement of GAAP.
    Asset valuations have a bigger impact than borrowing costs, because it really limits their capital investment oppotunties.

    Individually, people will lose more in their bond funds than they will gain in real interest from an increase. Which is why I always tell people to find bank CD’s that allow you to change the rate once.

  13. Paratrooper18 says:

    one more point. Tax cuts are only an incentive when tax rates and revenue are out of parity with the gdp. Our tax rates have been a deal for a while and have served their function of providing incetives. Just like interest rates. the Fed can’t go any lower than zero.

  14. anon says:

    They are sitting on the largest cash reserves in a long time.

    Well, they thought it was a good idea to save on labor costs by firing employees and cutting wages. Turns out though that that labor money they saved, was the money that consumers had been using to buy their products. D’OH!!!

    And then, the lack of wage growth has completely counteracted commodity inflation, so the Fed has kept interest rates low – no joy for investors in either equities or money markets.

    True, a US debt overhang could force us to issue more Treasury bonds at a higher rate of return… but without no real economic growth to back it up, the debt will be too costly.

  15. Paratrooper18 says:

    One reason we should raise taxes, is to force companies to either invest their earnings or pay dearly in taxes. That would actually be an incentive.

    Also, you cannot talk about cutting spending, if you don’t want to make real reforms. Medicare is bleeding money, and we need to go to a single pay system. But no.

    You cannot compartmentalize these issue, it makes for great bumper stickers and b/s for the fox political entertainers, but it is not how you form policy.

  16. anon says:

    One reason we should raise taxes, is to force companies to either invest their earnings or pay dearly in taxes.

    5% per month until unemployment is below 7.5%…

  17. Ishmael says:

    ” Republican shooter in Arizona ”

    Damn the facts! Full rant ahead!

  18. socialistic ben says:

    kinda like “socialist president” huh, ish.
    It always amuses me how righties can throw around totally false attacks and as soon as they get hit, with something that is only PARTIALLY false, they get all defensive and whiney.
    What spineless pathetic people they are.

  19. Ishmael says:

    ABC News presents video of an interview with Loughner’s close friend, who says: “He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right.”

    available on DRUDGE

  20. Geezer says:

    So what? If Loughner’s not a conservative, then all this nasty talk is OK?

  21. paratrooper18 says:

    Ben, it is your fault. How could you have the audacity to believe that they know anything about an issue beyond the one liners thrown out by the political entertainers on fox.

  22. Jason330 says:

    Scratch a libertarian psycho and you reveal a Rebuplican psycho. It is a distinction without a difference.

  23. Ishmael says:

    no Geezer, it means that Laughner won’t be an effective club for the left to wield against the right. (evan as jason continues to flail away) It also means Laughner will not be an effective tool for hte left to advance efforts to censor/silence the right or for new gun control efforts. It means the left will just wait for the next tragedy to exploit.

  24. Phil says:

    Para, I guess I should of clarified; 90’s I consider recent. If businesses cheat on their taxes, (i know they find every loophole available) wouldn’t changes in tax code be more efficient than raising actual tax rates?

    Single payer sounds great on paper. Go to the doctor, no bill, no problem. Then you hit the big problem, people don’t want to pay for other people. The mentality is, “I worked hard for my job/money/status…why should I pay for someone who doesn’t?” It’s also a valid argument.

  25. liberalgeek says:

    Phil – it’s only valid unless you look at the other side… Today a person goes to the doctor, they get bills they can’t pay, they go into bankruptcy, then the doctor raises his rates for everyone that does pay.

  26. Paratrooper18 says:

    Phil.
    The “I work hard” argument is flimsy, and even the premise is flawed. That is actually the racist message put out by the hate groups. It asserts that people without insurance are those who do not work. Which is not true. Especially in Sussex county where very few employers provide benefits for employees. Their family pet has better benefits than the employees ( i know someone who actually buys health insurance for their cat through the business, but does not provide health insurance for their employees ).

    It also asserts that we have no responsibility to provide for those who are less fortunate. You realize that most of the people who are not as hard working are actually victims of our lousy health care system. You can’t have it all.

    This menatility that “job = insurance, lazy = no insurances ” is just false.

    It is the same false assertion that business owners take all the risk, which is not true. Employees actually have more risk than business owners. Because they are the first ones shown the door when the moron who owns the business fails. The owner is not looking out for the interest of the employees, the owner put his or her own self interest above employees.

    As far tax cheats. Small businesses are hard to chase down for tax money, no matter how many laws. And I am not even including that lost revenue in the basis for a tax increase. The reason for a tax increase goes well beyond that issue. ( tax cheats are a 90 billion a year ). And since employees don’t really have too many opportunties to hide income, then it must be those heroic small business owners who don’t want to pay taxes or hire anyone but undocumented workers.

    The other facet to health care is that having health insurance does not mean you will be covered. Trust me, the second you have a very expensive chronic condition you will be dropped. Period.

    Did it ever occur to you why forcing Insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions would raise rates? I mean according to the “employment=insurance” then it would not be an issue, since some insurance company would be on the hook? So it should be a wash, Insurance companies should already have a large pool of people with expensive conditions?

    The reason is that they don’t, they dump them. And we allow it. At every critical point in our health care system that should be regulated; it is not. Insurance companies cherry pick who they cover, and the government is basically subsidizing private health insurance profits.

    The other flaw in the health care debate is that competition will lower costs. Acutally that is not true. More in health care also means higher costs. And it is not even better.

    The reality is that we already have government provided care, most of the medical bills in the US are paid for by the government, not private health coverage. (those generous employers ).

    There is no excuse on why we pay more than anyone else in the world for health care, yet cannot cover even our working population.

  27. Paratrooper18 says:

    One other little point. I have been through our health care system. And I have had every form of insurance in this country, except medicare, and our system sucks.

    Believe me, insurance companies hate sick people and these stories about not being covered or being dropped are not outliers.

    And by your logic I do not deserve health care coverage and should be living in a box at the boardwalk.

  28. Phil says:

    Para, I said “the mentality,” not my mentality. I also know that when the government gets its hands on something, or wants to save a buck, things can go bad fast. Speaking of subsidizing private health insurance profits, that is what the new bill reinforced. They just got 30 million more customers thanks to government mandate.

    We just don’t have the money(raising taxes or not) to support a full on universal health care option. We aren’t in the same position as the UK, canada, or other european nations. If we could cut back our defense spending to match the average of the european union, we would have money to spend on domestic programs. We can’t with the position we are in though. I know I kinda ventured into foriegn policy, but it also has a direct influence in domestic policy. we only have 100%, we have to reallocate funds for any of this to become a reality.

    BTW, lots of good points para.

  29. Paratrooper18 says:

    Phil,
    We already are paying for Universial Health Care. It costs 13,000 per year per man, woman, and child in this country for health care. It is already being spent, we simply are not getting what we are paying for.
    Our health care costs are higher than any other country and we get less for it.
    There was an article in one of the mid-state papers about the medicare rate reduction, and they interviewed a doctor that explained, “People do not understand, medicine is a business”. She didn’t realize how profound that point is.
    The problem we have is that insurance companies are just waste in the system. And the cost for billing, whether a doctor uses a service or whether it is a hospital take 25-30% of our health care money.
    The other issue with our health care is the fallacy that competition contains costs. Hospitals have a fixed set of costs and they have a number they have to make each year. And they meet their numbers by overtreating people. Which is why we have a lower quality of care.
    Here is what they mean by defensive medicine. It is the extra tests and prodedures they must perform to defend their income stream.

    The other benefit is that it will fix the big expense of employing people. Companies and businesses will just have a higher overall tax rate to cover the costs of insurance through government, but it will be alot cheaper than the plans they have now. Most large companies self-insure for medical to keep costs down, but even that is becoming very costly.

    The reason they use the death panel scare tactic to shoot down universal care is because the economics actually back nationalized insurance and care.