Politics And Religion
Imagine if something like this was said by a non-Christian governor:
”Now I will have to say that, if we don’t have the same daddy, we’re not brothers and sisters,” he said. “So anybody here today who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I’m telling you, you’re not my brother and you’re not my sister, and I want to be your brother.”
Isn’t that precious? Perhaps he should only be Governor of saved Christians. And, while we’re at it, can we stop all this war against Christians nonsense? It simply isn’t true.
This is just another example of “Christian privilege.”
He’s got that “generations of inbreeding” kind of face…. and apparently intellect.
maybe he also beleive that the only viable wives are also sisters.
From the article:
Asked by The Birmingham News afterwords if his words where meant to insult other faiths, Bentley said, ”We’re not trying to insult anybody.”
Imagine what he could accomplish if he tried to insult someone.
“He is the governor of all the people, Christians, non-Christians alike,” Rebekah Caldwell Mason, Bentley’s communications director, told the News.
I really want to add a wink, wink at the end of that statement.
Maybe Bentley has a camp of “interment” or “reeducation” for heathens like me, but he nailed one point, he ain’t my brother.
I wouldn’t want him at my Thanksgiving table.
I just keep imagining a Jewish or Muslim or atheist politician saying something like this and the Right’s reaction. The noise would be deafening.
Far be it from me to come off militant but this is what happens when we lose the war on Christmas. I’m picking off that wascally wabbit before he makes his easter rounds. Peeps? Who eats that poison?
I sometimes think that if it weren’t for the fact that the US constitution is a god-less document, the USA would be a Christianized version of a Taliban nation.
Way to start things on the wrong foot, governor. Oy.
Wer’e two transplanted Delawareans living in south Alabama, and yes it is interesting reliving 1979. He, Bentley, has no clue, just like Reilly!!
Dana: Why do you think the baggers want to change the Consitution? They hate it, it works against their sick old testament views of the world. Notice the baggers rarely quote anything about what “Jesus” really supposedly said, about poor, the money changers,etc. This Alabama lunatic obviously is buried in the old testament and never heard of the Consitution. What a sick country we are!
The governor has offered what sounds like a sincere apology for his remarks. In addtion to saying he is sorry for offending anyone and making anyone feel disenfranchised, he explained that he was in a Baptist church and, apparently, believed he was speaking as a Baptist to fellow Baptists, rather than as governor to citizens.
I don’t know anything about this guy but I was glad he said what he did. The whole incident might even make more people think twice about inserting their personal religious beliefs into the public sphere. It really can make people feel excluded.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028983-503544.html
it doesnt matter who he thought he was talking to. Is he that dishonest that he has a different set of beliefs for every crowd? (yes. that is how the right wing is)
He is sorry that his filth got out and he is sorry there was a negative reaction. Next we’ll be hearing about how hard this is for him and his family and $t $arah will be clucking about how his freedom of speech and faith are under fire from the intolerant Left.
Screw him. He can take his “apology” and shove it up whatever is inbred mutant equivalent of an ass.
Whooooaaaaa.
Sounds like I’ve hit a nerve! Not sure how because, believe me, this is an extremely sensitive subject with me. I didn’t want to go into that in my comment because I try to avoid discussions of religion. I don’t go to political sites to discuss my personal opinions about religion and I don’t go to hear others discuss theirs. Suffice it to say that, when the governor made his original comments, I had reason to feel excluded.
But to say it doesn’t matter who he thought he was talking to makes absolutely no sense to me. When speaking in a church to members of the congregation of that church, is it wrong to make certain assumptions about their religious beliefs? Do we have any reason to believe that the people who were actually in the church took offense?
And why would you automatically question his sincerity? Do you know much about him? I mean him, specifically, not some image you have of conservative Christians. Maybe you do know him and have reason to question his sincerity. But even if you do, I still think your reaction was extreme.
Here I go again. What we have here is another case of – yes – POKING THE BEAR! If the people who see nothing wrong with what he said – and you and I both know there are many – aren’t pushed into a attack mode, then possibly, as I said, this incident could actually work to reduce the amount of exclusionary religious speech in politics.
But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The way I see it, language like yours gives people like Sarah exactly what they need to keep doing what they do. You’re giving them oxygen! Please don’t give them oxygen!
And if you’re wondering who died and made me den mother here, yeah, I’ve been wondering that myself.
Stop muscling in on my den mother gig, Jane! 😉
I’m closer to Ben’s sentiment. As Governor he has a responsibility to all the people in his state. The problem with his statement was the in-you-face divisiveness. He went far beyond “Praise Jesus!” He drew a big us and them line.
Could any non-Christian be blamed for thinking this Governor wouldn’t represent them?
The standard apology won’t suffice – and he has no one to blame but himself. People will now be watching his actions… perhaps when someone tries to build a mosque in his state.
Jane, i wasnt trying to start a fight with you or anything. I have just seen an endless stream of conservatives who say offensive things then give their little “im sorry IF anyone was offended” BS. Or they say something along the lines of “i didn’t know who i was talking to” As if hateful language is OK as long as you are in front of the right crowd. (cough hitler cough)
I think he was being sincere when he didn’t realize there were cameras attached to the internets videotaping what he was saying. (you’d think they would have learned something from VA ’06 with the makaka incident… maybe they did “wait till you win”)
OR he was just pandering to those people, in which case it proves he is willing to say something that is (and i mean it in the constitutional sense) un-American in order to gain political support from hate filled tribal hicks. Either way it is a totally repugnant thing for him to have done.
I don’t see any reason i should be tolerant of the intolerant. Tolerance is about accepting people and differences that there is little control over. But the bigots, like Governor Gomer Pile, make the choice to be bigots. They make the choice to use divisive language and divide others. They don’t deserve the time of day, much less my tolerance.
Sorry, Pandora. I need boundaries!
I had another thought after I posted. The governor was talking about ‘being saved.’ It’s my understanding that, when some Christians talk about ‘being saved’ they’re talking about a once-in-a-lifetime, struck down on the road to Damascus-type of experience. It’s also my understanding that not everyone who calls him or herself a Christian has had this sort of experience or believes in this concept.
When I first read what the governor had said, I thought it was awful. But when he offered the explanation that he did, I assumed he saw himself as a Christian speaking to other Christians, some of whom had been ‘saved’ and some of whom had not been ‘saved.’ So it may have been an us/them kind of thing, but in a Christian/Christian sense rather than a Christian/non-Christian sense. If that’s the case, I am not in a position to judge whether what he said was offensive to ‘nonsaved’ Christians or not.
Anyway, since I know nothing about the man, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I hope people will watch his actions. We will see.
And to anyone who’s listening: if my discussion of the whole ‘being saved’ concept is off a lot or a little, please feel free to set me straight. I would actually appreciate it.
ben, I didn’t see your post until after I posted my response to Pandora. No need to worry about looking like your trying to start a fight. At least not from my perspective. I’m not that delicate! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Jane,
sorry, but again… why does it matter who he was talking to? If he was just some guy, or a preacher, or anything other than an elected official in a nation where governing from the Bible is expressly prohibited, it wouldn’t be a story.
He is however, the governor of all Alabamans. Now, while im sure his Brothers and Sisters make up 99% of his state, that 1% of “the others” shouldn’t have to deal with a governor who expressly considers them “them”. His views make him a typical southern white conservative. The fact he said it out loud makes him stupid. Either way, he has no place being in a poisition of authority.
Ah… but he secures his base by saying it out loud. He doesn’t regret what he said, he regrets his inelegant wording – and I doubt he regrets that very much.
If a governor of another religion said what he said in their synagogue, mosque, etc. they’d be driven out of office. That’s what I meant by Christian Privlege.
i agree with pandora. There is a double standard here.
It isn’t just Christian privilege though. It is WHITE Christian privilege… just look at Rev Wright. He is a Christian, but because he was expressing sentiments (valid and understandable) that werent lock step to the Becktopia that Gov Bill-Bob-Ray-Jebedia wants, people who attended his church were called anti American.
Fuck this guy. It is always the ones making such a big deal about being pals with Jesus that are out cheating on thier wives.
ben and pandora, I’m still not sure I’ve gotten my point across.
If he said what he did in his capacity as governor of Alabama speaking to the public, then I agree it was terrible and an apology, even sincere, doesn’t change what you now know to be in the man’s mind and heart.
But my understanding is that he claims he was speaking as a private Christian citizen, in a Christian church, to other Christians. If that’s the case the whole brother/sister metaphor and the whole us/them saved/not saved question is none of my business.
And, pandora, you’re right that that should apply regardless of the religion in question. And I assume it does. How would ‘outsiders’ even know? For example, if, say, Muslims in a mosque talk about who is or is not their brother in Mohammed (this may make no sense in the context of Islam but I don’t know enough to make a better analogy) how would non-Muslims even know? And why would they care? Again it’s none of my business and I have no problem with it.
In the course of practicing any religion, people may say and do all kinds of things that don’t make sense to people of different faiths or no faith. As long as it doesn’t affect the public sphere negatively in any way, I don’t see a problem.
So, as I said, if he was speaking as a private citizen Christian to other Christians, I’m okay. Unless this was being taped to be shown to the public and he knew that. Then I feel the same way you do. Although, ben, I probably would have used somewhat less….ahem….passionate language:) Just think what Sarah could do with your words! Why give her and like-minded others gifts?
Jane – I would agree with you if he was “witnessing” on a Sunday morning.
However, let’s go to the tape…
So this was pretty much his first act as Governor and it was at a public event celebrating Dr. King.
Well, according to the link, he did give the speech minutes after he took the oath of office. The press were present as this was his first speech since becoming Governor. Hence… it was political and would be reported on.
I get what you’re saying, Jane. I’m just having trouble accepting it… especially from a political party that doesn’t accept the separation between church and state. That said, I’ll stick with my wait and see what he does approach. To me, what he said was a big red flag.
Sheesh, jinx, Geek!
He was speaking at an MLK day celebration, in a church that MLK was once pastor of. He was there *because* he was the newly sworn in Governor of the state. Otherwise, why would he go to great lengths to tell the people in attendance that he was Governor of all of the people in Alabama? His anti-Christian bigotry doesn’t have a productive place in American society — as I’m sure MLK would remind the both of you.
Although, ben, I probably would have used somewhat less….ahem….passionate language:) Just think what Sarah could do with your words! Why give her and like-minded others gifts?
Why on *earth* would anyone speak as though Sarah Palin would misuse what you say? She would anyway — as long as she reaps some benefit from it. You can see the behavior in a recent comment by David Anderson — who spins out a pretty darned stupid story about the beliefs of people on this site with absolutely NO EVIDENCE of any of it. In other words, he is here with multiple lies of his own creation — perhaps you’ll be wagging your finger at him next.
This must be an Apocalypse Jinx, then….
Jane,
You are correct in that he didnt say what he said as an official statement of policy, or as an official speech as governor. However (comma) he said it in public, in a church he is not a member of and he is a public official. As far as an example from the left, Candidate Obama says something about guns and religion and it is picked up by a secret tape recorder and is taken as how he feels about everyone not brought up in a hip diverse urban town. The Right still goes back to it when they want to stir the wingnuts into thinking their guns and bibles are at risk.
Once you take the oath of office and begin your job as a public servant, you are a public servant 24/7. He is always the governor of Alabama until he loses to an even crazier hick and everything he says, he says as governor.
I personally think he was pandering. I HOPE he was pandering, because if that i really the way the conservative elected officials are trending, we are in for some very dark times in this country.
I made a quick search to see if I could get more context on the incident in question. I wasn’t able to find much, but I learned:
The governor had already given an inaugural speech immediately after being sworn in.
A little later he went to a celebration of MLK day in a Baptist church.
Some said he gave a speech, others called it was a sermon. Apparently he has a position in his own church where he does give sermons.
I still don’t know if he was aware the service would be made public.
Certainly this was not a smart move on his part, but without knowing more about the context, I can’t be sure how I feel about it. This incident is all I know about the man so…..we’ll see.
One very interesting – and encouraging – thing I learned: several people commented that what the governor said was standard Baptist church fare in Alabama and that 15 or so years ago no one would have blinked an eye at these sentiments being expressed in public. But today even some (many? most?) Baptists are uncomfortable with the governor’s comments.
“Why on *earth* would anyone speak as though Sarah Palin would misuse what you say? She would anyway — as long as she reaps some benefit from it.”
Cassandra, I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying here, but I’ll try to clarify what I meant. Actually pandora said it very well:
“Candidate Obama says something about guns and religion and it is picked up by a secret tape recorder and is taken as how he feels about everyone not brought up in a hip diverse urban town. The Right still goes back to it when they want to stir the wingnuts into thinking their guns and bibles are at risk.”
I think it’s very often possible to express the same opinion in two ways: one which can easily be used against you and one which can’t. I don’t know why people would choose the former over the latter.
And I’ve already wagged my finger at a number of people over at DP, David Anderson included. As a matter of fact I posted a defense of this site in a thread which went up a couple of days ago and then mysteriously disappeared soon after my post.
Sorry, that quote about Obama was from ben not pandora
Well thanks for defending us, but you are likely wasting your time.
I think it’s very often possible to express the same opinion in two ways: one which can easily be used against you and one which can’t. I don’t know why people would choose the former over the latter.
Which sidesteps my point — it doesn’t matter what you say or how it is framed. If it is useful to them to distort it and to try to get some points out of it, they will. Your admonishment presumes some basic honor in communication that they routinely demonstrate that they do not have.
@Jane – – I hve read your posts with interests- and have found you to be civil and trying to be moderate and approachable and understanding etc..
However, I too tried that track – and quickly gave it up
you will find that on DP censorship is king – if you are one of them you may lie, slander, obfusticate, demean, name-call etc, ad nauseum and never be called out for it OR banned..
Vulagrity (GASP) is banned, using the “correct” quoted word is (gasp) censored and one is banned (gasp) for posting off thread comment and all of the above….However, violence and violent rhetoric imagery is welcome
atually, now that I think on it Censorship is not king, HYPOCRACY is…
if you have not seen it yet – you soon will – we all know it, and it is only a matter of time
This group is abhored by DP because vulgarity (gasp) sexual referances and telling it like it is (read TRUTH) are tolerated….they don’t like either the message or the package it comes in
Persoanlly, I prefer a vulgar, honest person way before an out-wardly polished, polite veneer, that hides a rotten core that frankly stinks.