The Thing I Envy About China…
Their $300 billion investment in job creating, economy stimulating, efficient, sustainable, low carbon, non-oil dependent, high-speed rail isn’t hobbled by teabag Governors and Fox News addled dim wits.
Also, these guys.
News Journal – Rare earths mine proposed – SUNDANCE, Wyo. — A Canadian company hoping to compete with China’s near-monopoly of rare earth elements — metals critical for everything from U.S.
So why is a Canadian firm trying to mine rare earth in the U.S.?
And how often, exactly, do you think you would use high speed rail? except for the Northeast corridor, there is no feasible place for high speed rail in the country. study after study after study shows it to be a very expensive boondoggle. look no further than California, which has spent billions (with a “b”) on a high speed rail line, but has yet to lay one mile of track for the new line.
Acela is a nice train, but many folks won’t pay the extra money to ride it.
the west coast, the mississippi corridor, NY to Chicago to Denver to LasVegas, Just because there is no need to connect every house in the country doesn’t mean we shouldnt do SOMETHING.
Plubis, you have mentioned the cost before. I will again remind you of Supply And Demand. if there is MORE high speed rail and it is competitive, prices will go down.
Wow, fast trains! That sure kicks one of the most oppressive governments on the planet up a notch for me. A couple of our best friends went to Beijing for the Olympics. Because their daughter-in-Law is Chinese and lives there, they got there a couple of weeks early and stayed on awhile after the games were over, and were able to travel well beyond the contrived facade (unescorted). They witnessed the oppression and, on their adventures well outside the city, discovered some of the areas from where the labor was selected, and imported to build the Olympic Village. Ironically, those citizens either weren’t allowed, or couldn’t afford to see the games. Low carbon? They forced the shutdown of all coal burning facilities in and around Beijing weeks before the games so tourists could actually breathe the air without becoming ill.
I have no doubt the high speed rail in China will be a resounding success for two reasons:
– The Chinese government will *say* it is a success, whether it is or not.
– People will be forced to use it.
I can see why you would “envy” this. It fits your progressive, socialist ideology of “managing” the great unwashed. When I was a kid, I used to admire the Chinese for the number of people who rode bicycles, until I grew up and realized… they have no choice.
I’ve ridden on enough trains to realize how much fun, yet impractical and expensive, they are. I’ll take my big ass truck, and the freedom to drive it anywhere, anytime, over another government subsidized fast train any day.
Should our benevolent government ever be successful at shoving this unicorn fueled progress down our throats in the USA, the only difference between us, and the Chinese, will be the bike racks will be replaced by parking lots for your (hybrid) SUV’s.
I’ll take my big ass truck,
How many miles per soldier does it get?
Show me the oil, Sparky.
i love how these teabags want to continue using a dirty finite resource to power their gas guzzling death traps…. as long as it is the ‘Mer’can way.
Miscreant, do you realize how retarded you sound? Your argument is if we use trains, we will be a communist dictatorship…. wow. Do you think before you type, or just blather Beckian bullshit? Do you also realize your conservative world is coming to an end? I bet you do. You all do. How else would it explain the desperate attempts to shove your conservative crap where morals are dictated to people, but companies can do whatever they please right up the asses of humanity? I am going to take great joy in the pain experienced by conservatives when this country moves to an age where we all really DO have the same shot. The only people in America who think it is the land of the free where anyone can do anything are rich white Christians. Everyone else knows it is a playing feild that gets more uneven every time union workers are sacrificed for CEO’s bonuses.
Everybody said that would not use the DC metro unless it stopped directly in front of their workplace. Guess what? 400,000 people use it everyday.
You say, “They forced the shutdown of all coal burning facilities in and around Beijing weeks before the games so tourists could actually breathe the air without becoming ill. and thoughtfully close with “unicorn fueled progress” (meaning renewable resources). You should be regulated for train of thought because yours is off the rails.
shhhh Teabaggers dont know that trains can run on clean power. They think high speed rail means small christian white children will be forced to shovel coal while having gaybortions.
Please! Won’t someone think of the small white christian children?
Socialistic Ben opines:
“Miscreant, do you realize how retarded you sound? Your argument is if we use trains, we will be a communist dictatorship…. wow.”
I ask you to consider the same question about your own *logic*. Seems anytime someone doesn’t agree with the OP, some logic impaired lightweight goes all ad hominem. My only “argument”, should there be one, is to compare China’s situation with ours is an exercise in stupidity. Is the country of Jason’s wet dreams really a “dictatorship?
“Do you also realize your conservative world is coming to an end?”
My “world” is thriving, and I’ve fulfilled nearly every goal and dream I’ve ever had. I’m guessing yours isn’t?
“The only people in America who think it is the land of the free where anyone can do anything are rich white Christians.”
Methinks you may have read too much (intentionally perhaps)into my response. I’m not rich, or Christian. Some even say I’m not very white.
” Everyone else knows it is a playing feild that gets more uneven every time union workers are sacrificed for CEO’s bonuses.”
Talk about a leap. Where did I mention the evil unions? Surely there must be another thread in which you can express your love of these clusterfucks of dependency. You’re behaving as if this blog must be your only outlet for your frustrations. Perhaps you should get out and get some life experience. It may lend a little credibility to your rambling, speculative, disjointed manifestos.
Jason adds:
“Everybody said that would not use the DC metro unless it stopped directly in front of their workplace. Guess what? 400,000 people use it everyday.”
The Metro is still one of the best transit systems in the nation. I use it every time I drive to DC. Under the circumstances, any city dweller living in DC would be an idiot for not taking advantage of it. Finding a parking space for my big ass truck can sometimes be a challenge. But, in some locations, parking is free on weekends and holidays!
Mr. Cass vomits:
“You say, “They forced the shutdown of all coal burning facilities in and around Beijing weeks before the games so tourists could actually breathe the air without becoming ill. and thoughtfully close with “unicorn fueled progress” (meaning renewable resources).
Your inability to cope with the truth, puerile imagination and lack of reading comprehension must be brutally painful on a daily basis. My use of “unicorn fueled” has nothing even remotely to do with “renewable resources”. It has more to do the mythology of the progressive Liberal. For those here that know, and love, me. Know I’m a huge proponent of renewable resources (wind & solar energy, too).
“You should be regulated for train of thought because yours is off the rails.”
Regulation! Alas, a perfect example of one of the unicorn fueled myths of a progressive Liberal. It’s the opiate of the asses.
“My “world” is thriving, and I’ve fulfilled nearly every goal and dream I’ve ever had. I’m guessing yours isn’t?”
you mean like how slavery is still around? How we are still separate but “equal”; how children still work in coal mines and whites and blacks arent allowed to date? maybe you are referring to how there is still an English King ruling american, or how women and blacks cant vote. Are you talking about how only white men can own property? Is the fact that companies make their workers pay their own money to use company supplies to do their job?
All of those things were championed by conservatives.
Socialistic Ben thoughtfully, yet inadequately adds:
“shhhh Teabaggers dont know that trains can run on clean power. They think high speed rail means small christian white children will be forced to shovel coal while having gaybortions.”
Your ability to inaccurately stereotype me is astounding. I’m actually pro-choice. However, you did unwittingly expose that much of the electricity to power clean energy vehicles is generated by coal.
Nice work.
Thanks.
Socialistic Ben rambles:
“you mean like how slavery is still around? How we are still separate but “equal”; how children still work in coal mines and whites and blacks arent allowed to date? maybe you are referring to how there is still an English King ruling american, or how women and blacks cant vote. Are you talking about how only white men can own property? Is the fact that companies make their workers pay their own money to use company supplies to do their job?
All of those things were championed by conservatives.”
One final question: Are you out of your fucking mind? Don’t give it much thought (I’m sure it’s painful for you), the answer is already quite obvious. PLEASE carry on without me. You’re amusing beyond words.
You got that right, little Mis, everything about you makes me vomit. Brag more on your guns, how big they are! ‘Cuz in the end you’re a little prick with a big mouth.
Fast, readily available, low-fare trains increase productivity and fosters innovation. That’s reason enough why we should invest.
Opposition to this only helps those with a vested interest in established wealth, meaning fossil fuels, airlines (more fossil fuels), and private ownership of the rail lines (even more fossil fuels!). You can see where this is leading…..
And no worries that Mis is cynical. That’s ok. There should always be room for the person who will bring up the worst case senario, regardless of the acuality that it will happen.
yup, hurl an insult rather than address the FACT that the conservative movement has always stood for “the way things are” no matter how vile they might be. The MODERN conservative movement is SO bigoted, they dont want to appear “gay” or “european” or “commie” so they will spend more money and make the populace sicker to be a big tough “mer’can”
keep steepin’, teabag
“I’ll take my big ass truck, and the freedom to drive it anywhere, anytime, over another government subsidized fast train any day.”
You’re driving that truck on government subsidized roads and fueling it on military-subsidized oil. And you bought it with earnings from a taxpayer-funded job. What a paragon of self-sufficiency you are.
Typical wingnut magical thinking. Roads are free, but rails plunder the national treasury.
geezer, dont try telling a teabag the truth. They just respond by reminding you that they have guns.
the roads were put there by the magical free market. Blessing of peace and poor people’s money be unto HIM
Those faster trains will help china make more lead filled toys for my kids!
“You got that right, little Mis, everything about you makes me vomit. Brag more on your guns, how big they are! ‘Cuz in the end you’re a little prick with a big mouth.”
Is that the pinnacle of your contribution to the discussion? If so, I accept your surrender. You really seem to be intimidated by some simple logic. Now, go change your panties.
“You’re driving that truck on government subsidized roads and fueling it on military-subsidized oil. And you bought it with earnings from a taxpayer-funded job. What a paragon of self-sufficiency you are.”
I did my job exceptionally well, earned my pay, paid my taxes, and paid for all my property without subsidy. (I’d be glad to take some time to school you on this concept.) I’ve never ask for charity of any kind, and have never accepted anything from the government I didn’t pay for. (Contrary to your jaundiced opinion, being a public servant for low wages isn’t being on the dole) Presumably, you do the same. If so, see how much we have in common? If not, you’re merely a bitter hypocrite, with nothing to add but impotent insults.
As usual.
“… They just respond by reminding you that they have guns.”
Ben, again you seem incapable of composing an intelligent response. And I find it somewhat amusing that you are thinking about, and seem to be obsessing on the size of my *gun*.
“…Roads are free, but rails plunder the national treasury.”
Sorry, Jason, nothing is free, except perhaps in your small world.
“
I only have the panties of your ex stuck to my ceiling, Mis. I gave her the large cal. Now your new woman is sniffing around, I’ll work those panties too.
This HSR horse has been beat so thoroughly, without merit I might add, that the meat tastes like Perdue chicken strips!
Once and for all, keeping up with the international Joneses’ is not a jobs plan. The WaPo’s Samuelson puts this myth to rest…finally.
Oh, and as for China…it’s one of the most polluted countries in the world. During the Summer Olympics, the government actually stopped Co2 emmissions about 2 weeks before the games started to show the world how ‘clean’ CHina is.
The difference between us, Mis, is that I don’t consider any of those things worth bragging about. (Funny, though, that you consider your pay as “low,” considering what security guards in the private sector make. And before you brag about training, that was on our dime, too). And it still doesn’t change the facts that your roads and your oil are just as subsidized as passenger rail will ever be. Once you price out the subsidies — and I’m not even counting the price of a global military to keep the gasoline and jet fuel flowing — rail is the cheapest way to move freight, and it’s the cheapest way to move people. It’s not an either-or equation, but then your braggadocio has a way of making nuanced discussion impossible. You don’t have to remind us with every post what an asshole you are, you know. You could just state your piece — or could you? I guess having to be polite to the public took its toll on you over the years, so now you’re getting even behind your screen name.
Hey Miscreant – ignore socialist ben, he can’t think logically, is offended when someone else’s logical, well-researched opinion is invoked, can’t spell and resorts to profligate ad hominum attacks at will. His other ploy is to change the subject in response to a good cogent argument. He likes ‘straw.’
We beat this horse/topic a week or so ago. It was a ratio of 5 to 1 of pro-HSRailers against me, someone who knows the ridiculousness of Obama’s pie-in-the-sky ‘spending splurge’ during the height of the biggest debt and deficit crisis’ in the history of our Republic. And he shamelessly calls it an ‘investment.’
Heck, he makes jason look like a well-behaved Tibetan monk.
NH: Your lack of understanding of Keynesian economics does not constitute anyone else’s problem, least of all Obama’s.
Did you read the WaPo piece Weezer? It’s probably the best rebuke of HSR ever written!
I’m surprised you even know how to spell Keynesian, let alone comprehend its anachronistic principles.
Again:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/13/AR2011021302203.html
“Ben, again you seem incapable of composing an intelligent response. And I find it somewhat amusing that you are thinking about, and seem to be obsessing on the size of my *gun*.”
typical teabag…. try to insult me by calling me gay.
IF that’s what you consider a “well-written rebuke,” it’s no wonder you don’t know anything about economics except what you were told by your conservative sources.
I’m not defending HSR, not as envisioned in this proposal. It’s not actually high-speed, for one thing, and most of the routes are money-losers. But Samuelson is just repeating a bunch of conventional-thinking hackery, par for the course for the WaPo. To criticize Amtrak for failing to live up to the PR flackery spouted at its founding is knocking down the flimsiest straw man imaginable. Second-flimsiest is quoting the Cato Institute’s “research” about the price of the Double Happiness Bus. Notice he didn’t compare the time of the trip.
If you did more research instead of your “original thinking,” you’d know that no passenger rail service anywhere in the world charges passengers enough to be profitable. It’s all subsidized — just as roads and airports are. Interstate highways alone consume 13 times as much federal money annually as Amtrak, and that’s not their total cost, just the federal part. And remember, Amtrak runs a lot of useless routes just to keep Congresscritters happy.
I get tired of people like you proclaiming yourselves “original thinkers” when you’re just half-educated clowns who fancy themselves clever. Now go beat off to your Austrian school textbooks.
Samuelson is a known wingnut mouthpiece who doesn’t have much credibility anymore on financial or economic issues.
The thing about Amtrak is that if you isolate its best used routes (Northeast, around the Chicago area, the CA corridor) — you have the basis of passenger rail that doesn’t need the kind of subsidies that the cross country routes do. Amtrak has even proposed (multiple times) cutting back some of its least used service, but (as Geezer notes) some local Congressperson objects to losing rail service in BFE and so the service continues. Genuine HSR has the potential of being a game changer in markets where good regional accessibility is crucial. Genuine HSR is unlikely in the Northeast corridor, but has a higher possibility in CA or around the Chicago area.
There is little public transportation in the US that isn’t very highly subsidized — especially airports who never recover their costs from airlines or passengers.
” it’s no wonder you don’t know anything about economics except what you were told by your conservative sources.”
WaPo and Samuelson conservative? Btw, I learned some of my economics under the tutelage of one Mark Zandi at Penn. He couldn’t match me regarding the automotive industry, however. Not bad for a luddite and automaton by day and a student by night.
“The difference between us, Mis, is that I don’t consider any of those things worth bragging about. (Funny, though, that you consider your pay as “low,” considering what security guards in the private sector make. And before you brag about training, that was on our dime, too).”
Not bragging, old friend, just supporting an argument with some facts. Try it first sometime, and you may be able to avoid beginning an adult conversation with the usual trite insults. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that you, as a liberal, you still can’t comprehend that earning a living in public service isn’t on the taxpayer “dime”. I’m sure it must suck to be so hopelessly dense, mean-spirited, and narrow.
“And it still doesn’t change the facts that your roads and your oil are just as subsidized as passenger rail will ever be. Once you price out the subsidies — and I’m not even counting the price of a global military to keep the gasoline and jet fuel flowing — rail is the cheapest way to move freight, and it’s the cheapest way to move people.”
It’s kind of obtuse to believe that using one’s tax dollars to build and maintain *our* roads and services, as a subsidy.
I don’t dispute, at all, the efficiency of moving freight by rail. However, consider the possibility that how a person wants to be “moved” just may be an individual choice. Or are you just referring to what you deem as appropriate for the faceless masses? This seems to be a common flaw in the liberal ideology.
My original argument, before it was mutated into a clusterfuck by those not capable of discussion, was that using China as an example of a environmental responsibility, and progressive thinking is total bullshit.
“It’s not an either-or equation, but then your braggadocio has a way of making nuanced discussion impossible. You don’t have to remind us with every post what an asshole you are, you know. You could just state your piece — or could you?”
May I suggest that you try to keep up with the topic, and not dwell on my perceived “braggadocio”. I find the mindset rather sad that it’s considered “braggadocio” to take pride in one’s career. Pure speculation, but perhaps you’re a bit bitter, or embarrassed, to have never accomplished anything significant enough that you would care to relate to in a discussion. You reek of low self-esteem.
I could just state my case, and sometimes I do just that. But most of the players here are merely interested in participating in an echo chamber, or behave like spoiled children. So, in the interest of relating to them on their own level, I have to lower my standards a bit.
“I guess having to be polite to the public took its toll on you over the years, so now you’re getting even behind your screen name.”
Wrong again. I actually loved being polite to those who deserved it. I’m guessing I could have probably had a field day with you.
“Hey Miscreant – ignore socialist ben, he can’t think logically, is offended… ”
Word.
It’s amusing, though, to watch some of them behave like poorly programmed insects, and causes me to appreciate those who are intelligent enough to stay on topic, and articulate a cogent thought.
“Now go beat off to your Austrian school textbooks”.-GREAT line Geez!
Btw, I learned some of my economics under the tutelage of one Mark Zandi at Penn. He couldn’t match me regarding the automotive industry, however. Not bad for a luddite and automaton by day and a student by night.
Your preening is quite astounding. Who exactly are you trying to convince of you intellectual prowess? Are you trying to sound like a pompous ass? If so, you’ve succeeded.
It’s kind of obtuse to believe that using one’s tax dollars to build and maintain *our* roads and services, as a subsidy.
It’s kind of obtuse to believe that taxpayers filling in the monetary gap that the free market clearly won’t isn’t anything *but* a subsidy. There isn’t much about our current transportation system that recoups its costs from the *marketplace*.
Btw, I learned some of my economics under the tutelage of one Mark Zandi at Penn.
I’d bet ALOT of money that Zandi wouldn’t be publicly proud of this so-called student’s claim.
“Word.” Mis, we must be long lost twins 😉 Just don’t liken me to Danny DeVito.
“Your preening is quite astounding. Who exactly are you trying to convince of you intellectual prowess? Are you trying to sound like a pompous ass? If so, you’ve succeeded.”
Indeed, I am very proud of my accomplishments. In fact, just like Will Farrell’s character (Buddy the Elf) proclaimed to his dad during a very important meeting with (midget) Miles Finch, “I’m in love, and I don’t even care!”
““Now go beat off to your Austrian school textbooks”.-GREAT line Geez!”
Getting compliments from a guy who just pissed on former Governor Russell Peterson’s still-warm body is always a nice touch. Btw, at least I read text books.
Wash post is very conservative within its opinion pages. That’s just cold, hard fact. And given that the rest of the paper is straight news or human interest (inhearently non-partisan), it would be correct to say that the paper is conservative. It is the only way to determine such things, when none of the opinion bleeds into its news divisions/sections.
Now I can see how some still may believe Wash Po leans liberal, but that due to folks not reassessing, just keeping on with convensional wisdom. Tally up the number of inches given to left, center, and right since Bu$hCo took office and you’ll see for yourself.
Also, WashPo, well the family who owns it, makes most if its money through ownership of for-profit educational services, which politically puts them in the pro-union busting camp, if you think that, ultimately, it will be on the side of its own economic interest. That’s why Charles Lane is allowed to place words of anti-union regret into Gabby Giffords’ mouth.
I can’t say that I’m terribly surprised that you appreciate a system where what the government says, goes, no dissent allowed.
So, you want the Gummint spend Billions so it has another thing to subsidize like Amtrak that hasn’t made a penny of profit. Real good investment. Do you have any hot stock picks?
Somneone wants to invest their paper route and birthday money. I think Grandma would prefer that you use that money for some new slacks.