I Don’t See How Republicans Can Vote To Raise The Debt Ceiling And Keep Their Base
I always knew the Debt Ceiling was going to be a problem for Republicans because… hey, the word debt is in the title. But wouldn’t it be nice (and responsible) if they could move past their reliance on bumper sticker policy.
Yesterday Cantor and Kyl walked out of the debt-reduction talks. Personally, I think they walked in order to keep their Tea Party cred. They’re treating the debt ceiling like a game of Hot Potato, and they just tossed the “potato” to Boehner.
Steve Benen sums it up:
Is anyone, anywhere, willing to make the argument that House Republicans are dealing with this issue “as adults”?
Yesterday, with leading Republican negotiators in the bipartisan debt-reduction talks quitting the process, we didn’t see political maturity; we saw a dangerous temper tantrum.
The two Republicans in the talks, Representative Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, and Senator Jon Kyl, the minority whip, had no intention of actually negotiating. Negotiations require listening to those on the other side and giving them something they want in exchange for some of your goals.
That’s what this seems to boil down to: Republicans were incensed that Democrats want something out of this deal. It was as if Cantor was saying, “You don’t understand, this is our hostage strategy. You’re not allowed to ask for anything.”
Dangerous temper tantrum is correct. The clock is ticking, and I’m not seeing a way for Republicans to vote to raise the Debt Ceiling without losing their base.
Tags: Boehner, Cantor, Debt Ceiling, GOP, Kyl
Can the Democrats not raise taxes without losing their base? Twelve average Americans could come together and make a deal. These ideologue driven prima donnas from both sides can/will not.
The GOP will keep its base, but the individual GOP’ers will lose their jobs if they vote for tax increases. They will face the wrath of the teabaggers, FOX, the right-wing blogosphere, and will probably face Club-For-Growth funded primaries.
By holding firm on tax increases, Dems have a lovely strategy for blowing up the GOP, if we too are willing to go to default. But Dems might also get blown up.
We are definitely playing chicken here. Which is worse: Default, or a triumphant GOP with its “drown the middle class in a bathtub” strategy signed and validated by Dems?
Remember if we pass it, we own it. Just like extending the Bush tax cuts last December.
Twelve average Americans could come together and make a deal.
Yes they could. And let’s not forget that the original *deal* was budget cuts in return for raising the debt ceiling. The GOP is walking out because they can’t even justify eliminating tax subsidies to oil companies, farmers, and other organizations that simply don’t need your tax money.
The 12 average Americans would put together a deal that combines spending cuts and increased revenues — which is where Democrats already are. Repubs only want spending cuts, which is the prima donna business.
Sure they can. If the debt ceiling increase is coupled with real, substantial spending cuts, and no tax increases, Republicans can say that they’ve taken a strong, principled stand and gotten something done, without forcing a default.
But if the GOP settles on tax increases as well, then no, they can’t keep their base, because everybody knows that those tax increases will just be used to cut spending less than would have been done so otherwise.
Americans oppose increasing the debt ceiling, period, and both Republicans and Democrats know it.
But, in the end, the Republicans ran on and won their seats by promising to cut spending, the deficit, and the debt. It’s kind of hard to fault a representative for doing what he said he would do when he ran for office.
I think some of the GOPers are also playing to position themselves for Speaker. I can’t even get my head around the internal wingnut politics you need to play for that.
“Americans oppose increasing the debt ceiling, period, and both Republicans and Democrats know it.
Mainly because Americans don’t understand the issue. Nice to see you’re willing to use that — fuck, you’ll use anything, won’t you? — to “win” what you want, no matter how destructive it is.
Americans are in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, too. Should we therefore do it?
NBC/WSJ did a poll specifically asking participants about the debt ceiling in multiple ways:
Note that this poll is more recent than the one Dana linked to.
The third way they asked the question is particularly weaselly — the only spending involved with extending the debt ceiling is paying the bills on the commitments that Congress already approved. It isn’t as though you are raising the credit limit on a card to buy a new flat screen tv.
And here is a poll where a majority of respondents would blame the GOP for defaulting on our debt.
Republicans, especially those with close ties to the Tea Party wing of the party, promised in their campaigns to never compromise with the Democrats. Not just on raising taxes, but on just about every issue. Anything that is presented as a bipartisan solution will be seen by the Republican base as a compromise and will bring down their vengeance (which, considering the size of recent Tea Party rallies, will only prove their increasing impotence).
Kyl isn’t running for reelection. He isn’t keeping his credential with anyone for anything. Right or wrong, this is how the man honestly feels about the debt ceiling.
I’m afraid that Obama and the Congressional Dems will once more cave and agree not to modestly increase taxes on corporations and the ultrawealthy even though they could easily win the PR war w/ independents by pointing out that they had agreed to deep cuts but the Repubs gave nothing on tax increases. The Dems don’t know how to play hardball; the Repubs do.
Republicans are in a trap of their own making. They are the ones that made the debt ceiling a hostage and now they’ve backed themselves into a corner. They deserve to lose their seats because they will lose them either way. They will face everyone’s wrath if they tank the economy. They will face teabagger wrath if they vote to raise the ceiling. It was all so avoidable.
They will face everyone’s wrath if they tank the economy
I’m not so sure about that. Democrats are going around ginning up the GOP austerity narrative to their constituents (for example, John Carney). I think Dems are going to have ownership and will take the fall for whatever happens.
Eighty Senators just voted for tax cuts for the rich not six months ago at the President’s insistence (not that they needed much persuasion).They are not going to turn around now and vote for increases.
I predict a “tax reform” package that is so squishy and inscrutable nobody can really say whether taxes went up or down, or whether either side kept its promises. But the middle class will definitely lose yet again.
Republicans will claim victory. In fact, at this point if Obama still wants a deal he has to let them save face by letting them claim they won.
It seems pretty clear that the GOP will bear the brunt of the public’s wrath if we were to default. It also seems pretty clear that lots of people don’t entirely get what a default means.
Tax *increases* currently on the table are more like closing loopholes and removing unnecessary subsidies. These things are popular to do. As is the *balanced* approach to deficit reduction of cuts plus revenue increases.
Democrats really do have one of the best hands they’re going to be dealt here, and they need to win this hand going into the next round of budget talks. I don’t underestimate the ability of Democrats to accommodate their gift horse. But notwithstanding the fact that John Carney seems to think that going to DC to do Pete Peterson’s business is supposed to be his priority, these guys have the cards.
Here is an interesting article on how Obama might just ignore the debt ceiling approval all together.
Tax *increases* currently on the table are more like closing loopholes and removing unnecessary subsidies.
Republicans consider home mortgage deductions, day care deductions, and EITC to be “loopholes.”
Carney’s Concord Coalition people were floating some plan to eliminate deductions for charitable donations totaling less than $2K, while retaining the deduction for higher amounts.
We should just simplify the tax code so that the deductions/credits that I get are retained and all the other ones are ditched. 🙂
To Unstable Isotope, All I want you to agree to right now, another words I want an answer today , not in the future, Is that after the 2012 elections, If the following is true, that Mitt Romney has been elected president, and both senate and house are a majority republican, that you will admit at that time, that your comment today was wrong. To be clear, I just want you to agree to this today, that if what I say comes true, that you will admit, immediately after the 2012 elections, that your comment tonight was wrong. Can you agree to this. I am asking for a response from you, yes or no, after you give the yes or no answer, feel free to elaborate. If you don’t answer, I will take it as a no, that you won’t agree to this.
What comment?
If the debt ceiling is not raised, the republicant’s will get blamed for it according to the polls.
Look at what happened in Greece this week, the stock market took a 200+ point tumble in a few minutes when riots were reported in Greece and a rumor that a deal was not going to be made.
Think the markets will just roll with the Republican’ts defaulting on Americas financial obligations? Think again.
The meme should be that Republican’ts don’t want to pay their bills. After all, it was the Republican’t congress and president that brought us most of this problem.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/CHARTS%20and%20GRAPHS/FEDERALBUDGETDEFICIT-1996-2010.jpg
keep piling on more debt, that’s the answer!
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/CHARTS%20and%20GRAPHS/FederalDeficitAnnualized1993-Present-Documented.png
spend spend spend
they deserve to loose their seats because they will lose them either way.