Our Father Who Art in Sussex
Our Father, who art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy will be done
On Earth, as it is in Heaven
Give us this day
Our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil
Amen.
That’s the Lord’s Prayer, recited from memory of many a Catholic mass. Some of you crazy Protestants add a few more lines here or there, because you all are a bit crazy. I’ve recited it at Mass, at Funerals, at Weddings, and during my pre-flight ritual (where I pray silently two Lord’s Prayers and one Hail Hary as the plane is taxing out to take off). However, I have never had the inclination or the desire to pray it at my local government’s council meeting. It would never have occurred to me to recite a personal Catholic prayer that is directed to God for the forgiveness of my personal sins and thanks for all our blessings at a meeting concerning zoning and land use.
But our good friends down in Sussex County have been reciting the Lord’s Prayer at council meetings, for some time apparently, as it is now referred as a long standing tradition. So last month, four Sussex residents, supported by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, filed suit in Federal District Court to end the practice. This week, the County filed a Motion to Dismiss the case, arguing that the recitation of a Christian prayer does not promote Christianity over other religions.
Now, I can tell you right now that that argument is pure bullshit. And the reason why I know it is bullshit is because if the Sussex County Council were reciting a Muslim prayer or a Jewish prayer during council meetings, you better believe the very same people who are saying reciting a Christian prayer does not advance Christianity will say that reciting a Muslim prayer does advance Islam.
Now, here is the argument for the County that may be successful:
“The Lord’s Prayer is, by design and intent, ‘non-sectarian’ despite Plaintiffs efforts to characterize it otherwise,” [Wilmington attorney Joseph Scott] Shannon wrote, [representing the Sussex County Council]. “As a matter of theology, according to Plaintiffs’ own cited authority, the Lord’s Prayer does not advance any one, or disparage any other, faith or belief.” [..]
“That it may be ‘outside’ of the ‘tradition’ of particular sects does not alter the fact that the principles it espouses are universally accepted and unobjectionable as a statement of belief in a Divine Being, which, in and of itself, does not exploit, proselytize, advance any one, or disparage any other, faith or belief,” Shannon wrote.
Those are the legal… magic words, if you will, that could win the County the case, as the Lord’s Prayer, does not hinder or disparage other religions and contains widely held concepts shared by most if not all religions. Other church/state cases have been decided on those grounds, allowing prayers or creeds or displays to remain. So we will have to see how this case plays out. But if the County wins, then I want local Immams and Rabbis in the state to petition the council for the right to recite a prayer from their respective traditions. And I will love to see what reaction that gets.
I wonder who the assholes were that filed the suit. Probably some left-wing counterculture McGoverniks from Rehoboth.
Delbert, you could find out easily by reading the link in DD’s post. Or is that too much work for you?
So a Reverend is an asshole, Delbert? Nope. You are.
Let me guess – Rehoboth isn’t part of the “real” Sussex, right?
Steinbruck was just the token Christian in the group. He was probably defrocked or otherwise run off by the Lutherans. The profiles of the other three pretty much tell the story. None of them are from Sussex County. Just came down here to make trouble and “change” things. And no Puck, Rehoboth isn’t an “example” town or area as far as the median politics and culture of Sussex County goes.
delbert – Do you know for a fact that none of the three others is Christian?
For what it’s worth:
Steinbruck was for nearly 30 years pastor of Luther Place Memorial Church in D.C. He was not defrocked or run off.
Julie (Jules) Jackson is a member of the Nanticoke Indian tribe. But I guess that doesn’t qualify as being “from Sussex County” to you, does it?
When I attended a Seaford High School game several years ago, they began the game with a prayer which concluded “In Jesus name, amen.” Praying at public events is rife in Sussex County. As a nonbeliever, I find any prayers at tax funded public events offensive and primitive. So whether the Lord’s Prayer is Christian or not is moot as far as I am concerned.
Dana… the Third Circuit Court of Appeals recently struck down that practice in the Indian River School District, because it specifically mentioned Jesus Christ, and thus was taken to advance Christianity.
You neglected the Athiests, DelDem – any prayer may be offensive to them…
while the IDEAs of the Lord’s Prayer may be universally espoused – the fact that it is tied to ANY religion is the point
But you are correct about Jewish and Muslims, Hindi, Sikh etc saying a prayer – down here they want to round up immigrants with shotguns and pick up trucks ( well most of them are Catholic, not far above athiests in the WASP book anyway).
to hear Delbert – anything east of Rt 5 should be cut off and cast adrift to stagnate. Lets do that, they can clutch their bibles and guns and we wont have to subsidiza the Sussex Welfare queens anymore. Eastern Sussex can continue to come into the 21st century, albeit kicking and screaming.
I am a nonbeliever, but I love and respect religion and I enjoy its ceremonies, and I do participate as an irregular churchgoer. Prayer and group storytelling feels good on a human level, even if you take divinity out of the equation. All people have to gather to retell the stories of their culture. It is a basic human need. Hell, that is what we are doing right here on this blog.
Sunday Mass is the worlds’s longest running book club. Oprah’s was just a flash in the pan.
The same people who would mock a group chant of “Ommmm” or something are perfectly happy to perform a group chant of the Lords Prayer or the Pledge of Allegiance. But it is the same underlying human instinct that makes it feel good. Go figure.
I am concerned though when prayer is used as an exclusionary device, as it appears to be in Sussex. Also it is clearly in violation of the Establishment clause.
Aoine – Unfortunately there’s two different schools of thought on the Establishment Clause (all they way up to the Supreme Court): some justices believe it’s just so one religlion isn’t held above other religions the other is that religion is held up at all (for the non-belivers in the house). Unfortunately there’s decisions that rely on both.
Also in case anyone is interested Steinbruck wrote what I thought was a pretty lovely opinion piece on the case for TNJ.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011108080332
Barbara Mullin is from Sussex, she’s a committee chair for the Sussex County League of Women Voters.
She lives in Sussex, too, delbert.
And the prayer isn’t a long standing tradition, I don’t recall Dale Dukes leading the meetings off with the Lord’s Prayer. I think this tradition started with Vance Phillips, once again proving that religion is often the last refuge of the scoundrel.
The Lord’s Prayer, FYI, is the prayer that Jesus himself taught the apostles in the New Testament. Trying to pawn it off as a prayer that crosses religious lines and isn’t “sectarian” is the definition of “BULLSHIT.”
anon2 – The prayer has been going on for at least a decade. The Democrats did it, too. Dale Dukes is one of the practice’s fiercest supporters.
I think delbert meant that the plaintiffs are all come-heres, not born-heres. They all had to be Sussex residents to sue, I believe. But to delbert and others, the opinions of come-heres don’t matter. They just came to stir up trouble, after all.
I’ve always been offended when county council meetings start off with this. The first time I attended, I was dumbstruck. Of course, St. Bodie Girl was there, eyes clenched tight and screaming the LP aloud. I was waiting for him to start speaking in tongues (instead of the forked tongue he usually speaks with). Prayer of any type belongs in the home or the place of worship, not in the public arena and not at county council meetings.
And they wouldn’t let a Rabbi say a prayer because they’d be afraid that he’d cast a spell on them. And they also don’t take too kindly to people with horns and tails.
(note: for delbert and the other pinheads/trolls reading this, the last paragraph is sarcasm.)
The prayer recited at Sussex County Council meetings is the “Protestant” version, not even the traditional Catholic one. The Council is deliberately favoring not just Christianity, but a particular “flavor” of Christianity.
Simply having a moment of silent prayer or meditation would solve the problem.
I see the hand of Ken Grant in this.