This Seems Backwards
So a community of supposed Americans are upset that the Vice President of the United States has stated that he will prevent the early and unwarranted release of a convicted spy for a foreign government who breached America’s national security some 25 years ago and endangered all Americans everywhere.
In other times and circumstances, those supposed upset Americans might have been labeled traitors. At the very least sympathizers. For a fact, the spy, if he or she is an American citizen, is a traitor to America and deserves at the very least life in prison.
But we live in a time where allegiance to Israel is more important than allegiance to America.
Vice President Joe Biden has agreed to meet privately with Jewish leaders who have banded against him for saying he would prevent the early release of Jonathan Pollard, who was convicted in 1987 of espionage for spying for Israel.
Biden, who chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee when he represented Delaware, has long been known as a friend of the Jewish community. But he hit a nerve two weeks ago when he told a group of rabbis in Florida that Pollard should remain in prison for the rest of his life.
“He said, ‘The president is not your issue on Pollard. I am. And you’ll have to get through me first,’ ” said Rabbi Efrem Goldberg of the Boca Raton Synagogue. “He went on to say that he feels that Pollard is a traitor, and anyone who violates America should be in prison for their life.” […]
Joseph diGenova, a Republican appointee who led the prosecution against Pollard, said he “absolutely” supports Biden’s comments. Pollard has politicized the clemency process, and his supporters refuse to understand the seriousness of what he did, he said.
It cost the U.S. government up to $3 billion to unravel the damage after Pollard turned over “incalculable” amounts of technical and human intelligence to the Israelis, diGenova said. It can’t be proved that no one died as a result of his actions, he said.
“The documents would fill a room that was 10-feet-by-10-feet-by-6-feet,” diGenova said. “It was the largest physical dump of intelligence documents in history.”
It’s not that Pollard’s supporters don’t understand what Pollard did. They don’t care. The most important thing about Pollard is his religion and that he tried to help Israel. It does not matter that he fucked over America in the process.
Now, I am fine with a group of religious leaders asking, even begging, government officials for clemency for someone. Christian priests and bishops do it all the time. It is what they are supposed to do. And it was a group of Rabbis were doing during the original September 23rd private meeting with the Vice President in Florida. But, watch what happens now. Biden and the President will be labeled anti-Israel because they want to keep a traitor, who spied on America and sold our secrets and damaged America’s national security, in jail.
Make no mistake, if you support the release of Jonathan Pollard, you are anti-America. Not just unAmerican. Anti-American.
You can’t be Anti-American for wanting the release of an American who spied on America for America. Israel is America, right? Wait…
I for one am opposed to the early release of Jonathan Pollard. It doesn’t matter to me whether he’s Jewish or that he was spying for Israel. He is a traitor to his country and should serve his sentence.
Even if Biden had been tactful while giving his position….*shakes head*.
There also this this morning but I refuse to click onto Breitbart
Breitbart.tv: BIDEN PROPAGANDIZES 5TH GRADERS: ‘THINGS GOT REALLY BAD BEFORE WE CAME INTO OFFICE’
http://www.breitbart.tv/biden-propagandizes-5th-graders-things-got-really-bad-before-we-came-into-office/
What would Israel do if the situation was reversed? An Israeli Citizen giving sensitive information to the CIA.
‘The president is not your issue on [….]. I am. And you’ll have to get through me first,’
*Sigh* I wish Biden had been getting in the Senate’s face with this attitude before the mid-terms. We would have passed a lot of stuff Obama “says” he wants to pass now but can’t.
How much worse would Pollard be if he gave secrets to the Soviets or Chinese or certain Arab states we are currently intimidated by?
Would that make him eligible for two life sentences instead of one? After 25 years in jail he’s just a political football at this point. And Joe Biden is kicking him around for whatever photo-op he can get out of it with the election year coming up. If the issue had come up after November 2012 you probably would get a different response out of Biden.
If you are “fine” with religious leaders asking for clemency, why do you then say anyone asking for clemency for Pollard is anti-American? The claim is that Pollard is doing more time than people in comparable cases, and he was spying for an ally, not an enemy.
And I don’t get where you are coming from with this post, and I think that suggesting that Jews are disloyal to America is really problematic. “Supposed Americans”?
Where I am coming from with this post is my outrage at this:
If your primary allegiance is to a foreign government like Israel rather than to America, then yes, you are a supposed American, at the very least.
“If your primary allegiance is to a foreign government like Israel rather than to America, then yes, you are a supposed American, at the very least.”
I agree with Delaware Dem on this.
Fuck.
LOL.
“If your primary allegiance is to a foreign government like Israel rather than to America, then yes, you are a supposed American, at the very least.”
True, but these are thoughtcrimes. Only actions are prosecutable.
The right to freedom thought and speech is fundamental to America. Why can’t people disagree about clemency for Pollard without being labelled “anti-American”?
And it would be helpful to clarify that it is the neo-cons, the pro-Israel lobby, and the Christian Right that are labeling Obama anti-Israel, not the Jews as a group.
First, yes, I am not referring to the Jewish population in America as a group here. I am talking the neo-cons, the Pro-Israel lobby and the Christian Right. Sorry if that my post was not clear in that regard, and as I read it, it wasn’t.
Second, you have the right to free speech here. No one is censoring you. You can support the convicted traitor Jonathan Pollard all you want. And guess what I get to do with my own right to free speech? I get to call you anti-American. Yep, because I believe you are anti-American because you are supporting a convicted traitor.
See how that works.
DD – how about those of us with dual citizenship with the US and Israel?
I don’t know what to do with those with dual citizenship. Personally, I think you shouldn’t have dual citizenship and you should have to choose which country you want to be a citizen of. Precisely because of situations like this.
Thanks for the clarification, DD. And just to clarify additionally, I personally have no position on the Pollard case and am assuming the “you” in your post is a general one not aimed at me.
You do indeed have a right to call anyone you want “anti-American,” but personally, I think that kind of ratcheted up discourse is part of the problem in our political culture. What happened to mutual respect and agreeing to disagree?
I agree with you. Unfortunately the horse is out of the barn on mutual respect and civility. Mutual respect and Civility died in 2003, when anyone who dared to oppose Bush over the Iraq War were called traitors.
That is definitely true.
OK Deldem – now Im annoyed “I don’t know what to do with those with dual citizenship. Personally, I think you shouldn’t have dual citizenship and you should have to choose which country you want to be a citizen of.”
the facts of my birth made me a dual. SCOTUS says I can be both. I resent the implication that I am not as American are you or the next guy. Or not as loyal, either.
I have lived in both countries, voted in both countries, been active in both communities. I would not betray EITHER. And by doing so, enriched both societies.
Maybe only those that have torn alliegiences should give one or the other up – but dont tar us all with the same brush, thank you.
Its not nice and it hurts
DelDem – Im a dual and just as loyal an American as you
I took no oaths – its a fact of my birth
I resent the implication, Im not loyal or cant handle it
SCOTUS said I can be a dual, therefore I am…..sorry you dont agree. But please dont paint me as disloyal or prone to be
thanks
And isn’t nationalism part of the problem? Don’t we want to move in a more international direction? As a progressive, I know I do.
Aoine, I did not paint you as disloyal just because you are a dual citizen. MJ raised that issue in the comments and I said I didn’t know what to do with duals since it creates a conflict within you.
But if you support the freeing of the traitor Jonathan Pollard just because he is an Israeli, and you feel that being loyal to Israel requires you to support the freedom of Pollard, then yes, you are being disloyal to America.
Sometimes, duals have to make a choice.
I think you are caricaturing the position of the Jewish leaders who objected to Biden’s position.
Pollard should never get out of jail. This man spied on America. We have two many dual citizens in this country and in our government. Spying and the spier are treasonists. Pick your country and stick with it, otherwise your conflicted. I rejected Rahm Emmanuel serving as the Chief of Staff a dualcitizen who didnt serve in the US military, but served in the Israel’s. Whose interests was he looking after?
Anon – Rahm was serving the US’s interests, unless you can prove otherwise (which I know you can’t).
Hmmm
DD wrote:
Mr Pollard was convicted — in a plea bargain — on one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government, He was never convicted of treason, nor could he be, because treason is defined, specifically in the Constitution, to consist only in levying war against the United States, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort, and Israel is not our enemy.
As for releasing Mr Pollard, we have released spies all the time, normally in trades for our own spies who have been captured by our enemies. Mr Pollard sits in jail because the Israelis haven’t captured any American spies there to trade for him.
DelDem – I don’t like or agree with what Mr.Pollard did
And I am not conflicted at all and see no reason to not have dual citizenship.
It is part and parcel of the American experience and our immigrant background.