Coons’ cutely named AGREE Act
When one of Delaware’s elected Democratic Senators starts talking bipartisanship, I get very suspicious, because it usually means Republicans get what they want. And with Senator Coons’ recent talk of “tax code reform” in response to any question about raising taxes on the richest 1% in this country, in response to closing corporate loopholes and giveways, and his talk of reforming entitlements, I suppose I have to look at any proposal from his office made in conjunction with a teabagger very closely and very skeptically.
Sen. Chris Coons reached far, far across the aisle Tuesday, introducing a job-creation bill with Republican Sen. Marco Rubio. […]
Their bill, the AGREE Act — for American Growth, Recovery, Empowerment and Entrepreneurship — combines elements of President Barack Obama’s jobs plan, recommendations from the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and proposals from both parties in Congress.
“We can dwell on the partisan politics that have gridlocked this body and this town for much of our first year in office, or we can look forward and find ways we can work together to help Americans confront this jobs crisis,” Coons said in a statement. “We need to help our businesses grow and create jobs, and that’s what the AGREE Act is designed to do.”
Stop. Senator Coons, partisan politics have not gridlocked Congress. Saying that means that you equally apportion fault and blame between the two parties. And that is blatantly false. The Republican Party has gridlocked Congress with obstruction after obstruction, from taking legislation and nominations hostage, to refusing to ever compromise, from secret holds on the most mundane nominations and legislation to outright filibustering every single piece of legislation designed to create jobs. Senator Coons, you do your party and the nation a disservice when you say otherwise. But whatever. It is the same bipartisan mealy mouthed bullshit we have come to expect from any Senator elected from Delaware.
He and Rubio say the bill would extend tax relief for small businesses, encourage research and innovation, reduce barriers to immigration for highly skilled workers, protect businesses from illegal counterfeiting, and provide tax incentives for hiring veterans and regulatory relief for small companies.
More specifically, here are the bullet points from a summary on Rubio’s website:
–>Provide a three year extension of 100 percent bonus depreciation for the full cost of qualified investments such as equipment and property.
–>Provide a three year extension of Section 179 expensing levels for small businesses.
–>Provide a three year extension of eliminated taxes on certain small business stock.
–>Extend the Research & Development tax credit until 2013, increase the Alternative Simplified Credit (ASC) from 14 percent to 20 percent, and makes the ASC permanent.
–>Establish an enhanced research credit for domestic manufacturers to encourage job creation at home.
–>Provide veterans with a tax credit equal to 25% of the fee associated with starting a franchise up to $100,000.
–>Provide a five-year exemption from Section 404(b) of Sarbanes-Oxley for the first five years of a company going public, or for those below $250 million in total gross revenue (whichever comes first).
–>Eliminate the per-country numerical limitation for employment-based immigrant visas and adjusts the limitations on family based visa petitions from 7% per country to 15%.
–>Protect intellectual property by clarifying the Trade Secrets Act, and making it explicitly clear that it is not a crime for federal officials, in the performance of their duties, to share information about suspected infringing products with the right holder of a trademarked good.
Looking at this, a lot of it is temporary this and extension that. So I guess these are just simple quick fixes. I am not an intellectual property expert, so I have no idea if the proposal in there regarding IP is good or bad. So, Delaware Dems and Delaware Liberals, what’s the catch? I know there is one. How are we getting shafted?
How on God’s Earth is allowing in more immigrants a “jobs bill?” Have the laws of supply and demand been suspended for the labor market?
And the intellectual property thing sounds nefarious somehow.
Apart from that though it is basically a harmless list. The credits are temporary, and businesses can’t claim the credit unless they actually invest their money in something useful. Watch out for loopholes, though.
The most annoying thing is the aggressive celebration of bipartisanship, which Coons foreshadowed a week ago.
In a recent email Coons said:
Whew. For a minute I thought he might suggest making the wealthy pay their fair share, but he dodged that bullet. Instead it is the same old “tax reform” powered by the Loophole Unicorn.
Then the kicker:
You can’t dwell someplace until you get there first, and Senator, you have a ways to go. A few barbs would be nice, seeing as how Democrats have some CAMPAIGNS coming up.
If you aren’t willing or able to use your position to educate voters where the blame lies, then please don’t accept half of it on my behalf.
But if you are too nice to trade barbs, how about introducing some bills from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party? No barbs needed, just better policy, and a chance to vote on it for the record.
@puck: “Eliminate the per-country numerical limitation for employment-based immigrant visas and adjusts the limitations on family based visa petitions from 7% per country to 15%.”
well you obviously have not been following what happend in GA and AL
you know all that rhetoric about “jobs for Americans?” well the crops in GA and AL have rotted in the fields when the anti-immigrants bill passed
and those Americans looking for work – they either didn’t show up, worked to slow or quit…….after one day
as Pandora says links are our friends:
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/07/economists_say_alabamas_tough.html
But a strict immigration law that took effect this month in Georgia has blown up that state’s fruit and vegetable crop sector in the southern part of the state.
Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal’s program to replace migrant farm workers who are leaving the state with probationers backfired when some of the convicted criminals began walking off their jobs in south Georgia in June because the field work was too hard.
Supporters of Georgia’s new law argued legal workers would be easy to find in a state where the jobless rate is 9.8 percent. But Georgia farmers told the Associated Press most Americans want no part of picking crops because it’s hot, back-breaking work, for only $12 an hour.
The Georgia Agribusiness Council warned that farms could lose up to $1 billion if crops continued to go unpicked.
They cannot even get prisoners to do the work!!
and thats just the lower paid non-skilled labor – go to your yellow pages and look under doctors…or in to the high-tech IT industry..
and more questions???
I agree with Puck. This isn’t a bad bill, but it’s also not a very good one (but better than nothing.)
I don’t think we can blame Senator Coons for trying to do something, though. Republicans clearly aren’t interested in doing anything that would help the economy in the run-up to the elections, and are even actively hurting it.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/15/368879/christie-blocking-school-projects/
At least Coons is trying to do something?
The farmers in the South (as well as their customers, and their elected representatives) need to be hit over the head with a two-by-four over multiple seasons, before they start to understand that then can’t keep clinging to their illegal business model based on substandard wages and working conditions. It’s going to take some time. Viewing their crops rotting in the field might be just the thing to remove the veil from their eyes.
Now if the AGREE act has a program specifically for region-specific pickers, and provides them with American job and wage protections, that is probably useful.
Are you serious? Do you really think there is a shortage of American IT workers? that is funny.
I have a Chris Coons Google Alert and it shows up on my newsreader. This morning’s entries have lots of headlines highlighting the “Bipartisanship” of this deal, rather than the employment part of the deal. And that is what I think this bill is pointed to — lots of press about bipartisanship. Certainly the two of them will get more good press about this bipartisanship than there will be real jobs out of this thing.
Yes, it is incremental. And I still can’t figure out how they paid for this. The NJ went to town this AM about this bipartisanship and never asked how these new tax credits get paid for. Why do you think that is? It doesn’t address the fundamental unemployment problem, which is lack of consumer demand.
So it is something. But it won’t put much of a dent in employing 14 million people. It’s awesome for burnishing that bipartisanship cred, though.
Well, somebody please check my math, but if you allow, say, 10,000 brand new workers into the country, don’t you start your jobs program 10,000 jobs in the hole?
And here we go
Ok…if there isnt a shortage of IT workers WHYY is the US handing out visas for them.
Its not just IT workers it their skill levell. Its the speciality
Sale with pickers and ag workers
However if ur ok with 8 collar tomottos have at it
Yes. Workers should have wage protection etc
But the issue AMERICAMS WON’T DO THE WORK.
U seem to be missing that point in ur quest for the ideal that all americans want to work and its simply to low wage that’s prevent g it
Based on that I conclude that ur backhrounx is not either ag industries nor immigration law based.
Mine is.
First of all, the immigrations provision in the AGREE act have nothing to do with tomatoes and cucumbers. The immigration provision in the AGREE Act inserts the language of H.R.3012 — Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act:
Got that? As per the request of corporate lobbyists who employ IT workers, we will no longer have a country-based “quota” for workers who come here with jobs already lined up. This is directed at high-tech workers.
This means, for example, that our corporations can hire as many Russian or Chinese programmers or engineers as they want, without running into the quota for those nationalities. These people work for less and are entitled to fewer protections than Americans, and will leave American programmers and engineers knocking at the door for jobs with their crazy “rights.” This is already happening, and now it will be happening faster if Coons gets his wish.
It is not only an attack on our jobs, it is an attack on our BEST jobs.
But yes I am OK with $8 tomatoes, if that is what takes to raise the jobs to American labor standards. I don’t think it would be that high though.
How do your “exploitation tomatoes” taste? Does the child’s sweat on them make them sweeter?
From Rubio’s release:
–>Provide a three year extension of 100 percent bonus depreciation for the full cost of qualified investments such as equipment and property.
–>Provide a three year extension of Section 179 expensing levels for small businesses.
–>Provide a three year extension of eliminated taxes on certain small business stock.
–>Extend the Research & Development tax credit until 2013, increase the Alternative Simplified Credit (ASC) from 14 percent to 20 percent, and makes the ASC permanent.
–>Establish an enhanced research credit for domestic manufacturers to encourage job creation at home.
–>Provide veterans with a tax credit equal to 25% of the fee associated with starting a franchise up to $100,000.
Three-year extension, three-year extension, three-year extension … Now, please tell me, if these tax credits for business are going to create jobs going forward, how many jobs have they helped create in the last couple of years?
And the tax credit for vets who want to start a franchise — how many vets just back from Iraq or Afghanistan have that kind of money to buy into a franchise operation … or have a friendly banker who will make that loan?
Bottom line: I don’t think this piece of bipartisanship is going to do much to benefit the 99 percent.
“yes I am OK with $8 tomatoes, if that is what takes to raise the jobs to American labor standards. I don’t think it would be that high though.”
The question isn’t whether you’re “OK” with it. The question is how much of a price increase will people tolerate before they stop buying the American tomatoes — at which point grocers will stop buying American tomatoes and will import them instead. So it’s not a case of people paying more for produce. It’s a case of produce growing following lots of other businesses out of the country.
@puck – you really have an issue with immigrant labor- every time it comes up you get all tweaky.
it has EVERYTHNG to do with tomaots and cucumbers – GOT IT?
no where does the language address apecifically IT workers – in fact the language says:
“To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to eliminate the per-country numerical limitation for employment-based immigrants”
EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS
whether that is high or low skilled is not specifically addressed. And unless you are privvy to the issues presented to Rubio, and are aware of the backlash he has been experiencing, you would not know where that pressure is coming from.
odd – for all your ranting you failed to address the issue of the increase in family based visas as well fron 7%-14& per country – dont you think they will work too??
it is what it is and your focus is very narrow – pull your head out of your idealism everyone in a while a look at the realities of what we are facing
its not pie-in the sky – it never will be
this statement :
“This means, for example, that our corporations can hire as many Russian or Chinese programmers or engineers as they want, without running into the quota for those nationalities. These people work for less and are entitled to fewer protections than Americans”
shows how much you do NOT know about this issue – the AG industries and the tourist shops can hire as many Mexican/ Guatemalan or Ukrainian workers as they need as well
get off the issue of sensationalizing “the sweat of children” – pretty picture for you to paint – but another canard – nice try
So there goes your fallacy regarding tomatos and cucumbers
and as for this canard:
“These people work for less and are entitled to fewer protections than Americans”
Do you really believe that??- LOL – you think just because an immigrant worker is under a I-140/ H2-A/H2-B/H1-A etc (vegetable soup) that they wont look for better wotk if they can – or cannot report abuses??
let you in on a little secret- the Federal Department of Labor as well as the State are kept VERY busy with foreign wokers filing complaints for violations of employement law AND those are just the cases files by UNDOCUMENTED workers.
Believe me on this- its my daily bread
@Geezer –
on this issue Geezer- puck is as much of an idealogue to this issue as the RWNJ are about….abortion
these is no arguing with puck on this – their mind is made up and they only see their side of it – and will continue to see only that.
que pena!
I really cannot abide those who assume – puck you ASSUMED that:
” The immigration provision in the AGREE Act inserts the language of H.R.3012 — Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act:
To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to eliminate the per-country numerical limitation for employment-based immigrants”
NEWS FLASH – the language in one act is specific to HR 3012 – concerning high-skilled immigrants –
the language in the other act – while the same – the title is differnt, thereby addressing a different issue. Please, do put things in their proper context.
WOW – that is something FOX (not) NEWS would do – not a “progressive Democrat”…I’m so disappointed in you.
“the language in the other act – while the same – the title is differnt, thereby addressing a different issue”
WTF?
CONTEXT – puck CONTEXT
look a little farther down
you seemed to miss this:
Many of these employment-based visa applicants are educated here in the United States, and we should be harnessing their talents not sending them out of the country to compete with us economically.
Committed to fixing our broken legal immigration system………
take that any way you choose
There’s a more detailed summary of the AGREE Act over at Coons’ website (pdf).
It isn’t easily quoted (the pdf text is berserk), but this looks like it is targeted at high-skilled workers (IT and engineers) rather than agricultural workers.
“Do you really think there is a shortage of American IT workers? that is funny.”
Apparently Steve Jobs did. He believed the US didn’t produce enough engineers to support the manufacture of Apple products, which is why he had them made in China.
“Jobs also criticized America’s education system, saying it was “crippled by union work rules,” noted Isaacson. “Until the teachers’ unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/steve-jobs-biography-obama_n_1022786.html
I didn’t miss it, I just don’t think it is a convincing argument. They are educated here on STUDENT visas, not EMPLOYMENT visas.
Are you really going to tell their American fellow graduates that they now have to compete for jobs against people who aren’t even supposed to be here? (unless this bill passes).
And the title in the AGREE act is the same as the earlier High Tech bill. If you don’t believe me, maybe you will believe Senator Coons when he says:
Don’t forget to click on the PDF link for Coons’s more detailed summary.
Or maybe you will believe some of these people:
Alf is wrong about a shortage, but at least he understands the context.
And then there’s this guy:
Manufacturing engineers does not always = IT workers.
And no one here wants companies with working conditions bad enough for its employees to regularly commit suicide at the plant.
I forgot to mention, the AGREE Act has nothing to do with students; that is a red herring, Senator.
It simply eliminates national quotas, so employers can hire scads of cheap high tech workers who studied overseas.
If there is language limiting the exception only to students who studied here, that would make it a little better but still unacceptable.
“Manufacturing engineers does not always = IT workers.”
True. And who has more manufacturing expertise than the Chinese?
I’ll cop to using IT as a shorthand for all sorts of highly skilled workers.
I don’t think we have a shortage of manufacturing engineers either, simply because we no longer have enough manufacturing facilities to run out of American managers.
“Apparently Steve Jobs did. He believed the US didn’t produce enough engineers to support the manufacture of Apple products, which is why he had them made in China.”
We should take statements by a leading industrialist about labor costs at face value?
C’mon, Geez. Don’t call Steve Jobs isn’t an industrialist. To anyone who owns a Smart Phone, he’s God.
here is where your argument falls apart puck:
if they came on a student visa – they are FOREIGN students
if they remove the barriers to them getting jobs…which AGREE does
then they are FOREIGN workers – they simply adjusted status.
that still takes jobs AWAY from American IT workers – which seems to be your problem.
you said:
‘They are educated here on STUDENT visas, not EMPLOYMENT visas.
Are you really going to tell their American fellow graduates that they now have to compete for jobs against people who aren’t even supposed to be here? (unless this bill passes). ”
I am assuimg of course that you are familiar with I-140s and the requirements of it as well as the ability of “adjusting status” and how it gets done
Well, if they are here on a student visa, then they are supposed to be here – so whats the issue?
Are you saying, that foreign students are not supposed to be able to adjust status to employement?
Coons specifically referred to their being educated here then the US losing their potential because they dont get hired here and go home
Last time I checked foreign students pay a premium to be educated here – so its not like the US is investing in them- they are investing in their own education – but the AGREE act does not want to lose them to overseas competition?
puck – look between the lines here – it all does not add up – the AGREE act makes it sound like the US had invested in the education of foreign students while it has not – they invested in their own education and future and chose to put the money here. We owe them nothing, except an education, that they paid for.
If they can compete for a job here that is another story.
also odd that you found this Rubio quote ” limited one for agricultural workers and some students who came into the country illegally as children.” from 10/28
seeing as he spoke out about and voted against DREAM
think this change of heart is because he discovered he is himself an “anchor baby”. Wonder how lunch with him and Michelle Bachman would go down?
well – this is going to leave a mark – – cant wait to read these comments:
http://www.delawarepolitics.net/group-praises-rubio-and-coons/#comments
The real question on the high-skilled workers thing is whether or not there is a genuine shortage of workers or if there is an effort to depress the wages of the IT workers here. There are plenty of respected studies that don’t see the shortage of workers.
I have no objection to people legally immigrating here to work or study or both. I have lots of objections to passing by IT workers who are already here in order to hire immigrants who will work cheaper. No doubt that some of our IT people out of work may have outdated skills. And I don’t know how hard it would be to retrain some of these folks. But this focus on immigrant visas for hi-skilled work definitely seems to be at the expense of some of the high-skilled workers already here.
Our dismal math and science skills not withstanding there is little to no evidence of a shortage or workers. There is ample evidence that companies pay foreign workers less than their U.S. counterparts. Additionally, workers entering the U.S.under the H1B Visa program are often not IT workers. In fact Sallie Mae (yeah, that one) employs several hundred H1B Visa workers who are in such diverse positions as “Structured Financial Manager” and “Financial Analyst.” While many companies’ default hiring practice is to acquire American workers, to suggest that all of them act in the nation’s best interests conflicts with a company’s primary objective, which to create return on investment for shareholders and owners.
“whether or not there is a genuine shortage of workers or if there is an effort to depress the wages of the IT workers here”
The latter. Or more precisely, there is a shortage of workers at the price they want to pay. It’s not even that nefarious – all employers just want to hire people at the lowest cost. But it is yet another example of the 1% jiggering the rules in their favor against the 99%.
You’d expect that from Rubio, but we are now also getting used to 1%-er policy from Senator Coons.
Aoine – you have a lot of passion, and a pretty good sneer. But almost every fact you have claimed is wrong.
Well, if they are here on a student visa, then they are supposed to be here – so whats the issue?
We are talking about graduates, not students. Students are not usually applying for full-time jobs. Student visas are for studying, not working. The student visa expires after you graduate; then you need to find another type of visa or GO HOME.
Coons and Rubio are playing up the “earnest student” part of it in their public spin. But their AGREE Act says nothing about students or education.
Are you saying, that foreign students are not supposed to be able to adjust status to employement?
I don’t know about this “adjust status” business. I’ve never heard of that before. But they should be able to apply for residency that allows them to work, if they are eligible. One of the ways you can be eligible is to have a job lined up, which is what AGREE is about. Currently for employment based applications, you still have to be within the country quotas as defined by law. The AGREE Act would remove the country quotas.
So basically what that means is the industry has hired all the Chinese and Indian (or whatever) high tech workers allowed by law, so now they want to change the law to let them hire more.
So Coons and Rubio are right when they say this change would not increase the total number of immigrants. But it would increase the number of people competing for our best jobs – which is the last thing we need right now.
There is both very good, and very bad in this bill.. Neither mentioned in this thread. It seems to have gotten sidetracked on a very minor issue.. Such is politics when run by emotions.. lol (we’re all guilty)
Most of the implementations have been called for by me since 2009, when a plan was made to put America back to work.
In essence this bill helps start-up businesses get their feet on the ground. Since start up businesses do not make lots of money at first, their taxes don’t put that much dent into the revenue stream. With this bill it essentially means most start up small businesses won’t have to pay any federal tax their first three years…That is.. IF.. they hire, IF they buy .. If they put money into Research and Development…
In these regards, this bill is a miniature of what needs to happen on a macro scale. Where deductions are given for specific actions that hire, keep on board, and give raises to American workers. Again, these were argued by me in 2009 as being a necessary requirement for getting America back to work.
Simply put. it provides an incentive for a small growing business, (one that hires Americans) to reinvest what little profit it has, back into it’s self, and not pay it over to the Federal Treasury…
The “family” part of the immigrant clause, allows those family members already here, to remain and not get sent back because they happened to apply after their home nation’s quota had been surpassed. As written now, a college student who was brought over here after birth, and worked their way through college and had a degree, would now, for the first time, be allowed to apply at the head of the line, as opposed to being shuffled to the bottom to wait their time over the last unskilled person who just happened to show up in Phoenix. This too is a good thing.
Third. (Protect intellectual property by clarifying the Trade Secrets Act, and making it explicitly clear that it is not a crime for federal officials, in the performance of their duties, to share information about suspected infringing products with the right holder of a trademarked good). will eliminate Youtube as we know it, and almost completely shut down Google as being an important research tool… The entire Internet will become as some some of those links now that you’ve found, where you click on and then must pay $50 -$100 dollars to read the professor’s article… That will render Google useless to all except those with unlimited cash… That means anyone uploading a Youtube Video, can have their IP blacklisted and shut down, if any copyright party so desires. It also means Homeland Security can shut down your IP if they want to say, punish you for saying anything bad about their gods, the Republicans (lol) by simply finding something you’ve ever posted, that could be considered laying in that gray area of “is it really legal”. In other words, Charlie Copeland could shut Delaware Liberal down in 2 legal hours. Definitely not good.
“So basically what that means is the industry has hired all the Chinese and Indian (or whatever) high tech workers allowed by law, so now they want to change the law to let them hire more.”
Once again, what you oppose is not the worst option. More and more of these jobs are actually moving overseas. While this is a blatant attempt to increase the labor pool, thereby putting downward pressure on wages, it might beat the current situation, in which the jobs themselves are shipped overseas.
Please note that in general I agree with you. I’m just pointing out that you aren’t acknowledging the likely real-world effects of failure to adopt these measures.
The choice isn’t between half-a-loaf and a whole one; it’s between half-a-loaf and one slice.
“With this bill it essentially means most start up small businesses won’t have to pay any federal tax their first three years”
Unless they become massively profitable very quickly, most businesses aren’t paying much in taxes during that period. Any money plowed into, say, research already is sheltered from taxes, which are only on profits. I don’t know of anyone who is failing to start a business because he fears taxation.
“The choice isn’t between half-a-loaf and a whole one; it’s between half-a-loaf and one slice.”
You spotted this BS and called it out on the Barley Mill rezoning; too bad you can’t see it here. It is classic 1%-er logic.
Well, if they are here on a student visa, then they are supposed to be here – so whats the issue?
We are talking about graduates, not students. Students are not usually applying for full-time jobs. Student visas are for studying, not working. The student visa expires after you graduate; then you need to find another type of visa or GO HOME.
THAT IS WHAT I SAID – Students are students – when they graduate they go home
or “adjust status” to workers
“adjust status” is what the actual term used when one goes from one visa catagory to another
Students cannot work – its in the rules for their visas
and one cannot have a job lines up – under the I-140 provisions the employer MUST prove that this foreign national is the only person that can do this job based on a specialty and no American can do it and that they advertised the position and a qualified American did not apply.
that is all very simplistic – there is a lot more to it that that
but its not as easy as it seem in the billet points they put out on this bill
and I beg to differ about my facts – you dont agree with them – its not that they are wrong – I cant seem to reason thru what you are trying to say based on how you present it.
please see below – and note the term “adjustment of status” for someone who writes alot about immigrants, its a term you ought to be familiar with – it common in the business.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=1efbac8ec3d2f210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=6abe6d26d17df110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD
the left side of this page may also help any who have questions;
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=73566811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=73566811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
if you are concerned about the depression of American wages, then you need to do two things.. neither in this bill..
One, you need to push for an international wage, the establishment of international labor unions, and then use consumer buying power (Buy American) to implement it.
Two, you need to raise Corporate and the wealthy’s taxes so high, that it is cheaper for them to have a worker employed providing an additional service to the company, than it is to elimanate his position to use the money elsewhere…
Bottom line, The Clinton and years following WWII are two good models to draw upon…
In essence here is what happened…
Government — People — Corporations
The money used to be balanced and things worked….
Now we have…
Government – People – Corporations ++
The govenment is out of money, the people is out of money, the corporations is haveing too much money….
We need to right that wrong and legislation is the only tool required to do so … which subsequently means … no Republican can be allowed to win an office, which means every American needs to get that message.
Alas, I’m afraid we’re doomed.
@kavips – I respectfully disagree:
“As written now, a college student who was brought over here after birth, and worked their way through college and had a degree, would now, for the first time, be allowed to apply at the head of the line, as opposed to being shuffled to the bottom to wait their time over the last unskilled person who just happened to show up in Phoenix. This too is a good thing.”
absolutely not – college students cannot be BROUGHT over here – 18 is the age of majority in Immigration law – sometimes 21, and married or unmarried all factors in – but generally at 18 they age out, and are not considered dependants –
if 18 is the age for beginning college (nore or less) they are on their own unless the are unmarried and the son of daughter of a US citizen, then the wait is only a couple of years for the visa
actually – having an employer petition is faster than a family petition – isnt that nice?
http://travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_5572.html
so as of today’s visa bulletin – if you are the son or daughter, unmarried or a US citizen and you are coming in from Mexico you have been waiting for a visa since 1993
so what was that snarky comment about the next unskilled laborer showing up in Phoenix??
use link or see todays visa bulletin eligibility dates below
Family- Sponsored
All Chargeability Areas Except Those Listed -22JUL04
CHINA- mainland born – 22JUL04
INDIA – 22JUL04
MEXICO -01APR93
PHILIPPINES – 08FEB97
Once again, the immigration portion of the AGREE Act has nothing to do with students, or students staying on as workers. It abolishes country-based quotas for employment-based immigrants (those who have a job lined up). There is nothing in the Act about where they went to school.
For the family immigration portions of the Act, there may be a humanitarian argument but there is certainly no job creation argument.
umarried son or daughter OF a US citizen it should read – sorry
Simply put. it provides an incentive for a small growing business, (one that hires Americans) to reinvest what little profit it has, back into it’s self, and not pay it over to the Federal Treasury…
No actually, it doesn’t. And it doesn’t grapple with the reason why people hire in the first place — that they have people knocking on their doors looking to buy stuff. No business creates a job because there is a better tax deal — they create them because there is a demand for those services, first. There is nothing about this bill that addresses demand, except for the tax breaks for equipment. A subsidy that may boost demand slightly for equipment.
but if you go to Coons website – he specifically mentions them being educated in this country – in the detailed summary
cant paste form it – the PDF is all wonky
and I did have a fact wrong – its 7% – 15%
Coons is feeding us all a big fat red herring about foreign students highly educated in the US. He’s counting on us not to read the detailed summary carefully, and he apparently got you.
The part about students educated in the US is all in Coons’ rationalization for the bill, i.e., “spin.”
It is NOT IN THE BILL ITSELF, according to the detailed summary. The Act has nothing to do with students, although Coons loves to talk as if it does.
Has anybody seen the actual text of the bill yet?
“many of these employments based visa are educated here in the United States and we should be harnessing their talents – not sending them out of the country to compete with us ecomonically”
but puck says: Once again, the immigration portion of the AGREE Act has nothing to do with students, or students staying on as workers
what was that you said about my facts again??
http://coons.senate.gov/issues/agree/Coons-Rubio-AGREE-Act-Summary.pdf
puck – with all due respect
its not just the law – its also the INTENT of the law
however that said – I would RATHER see it in the law frankly
and over 20 years of experience with this stuff taught me that – best way to determine what the law meant – is to ask the writer
when that fails, the Supreme Court gets to decide
and what I quoted IS in the detailed summary – obviuosly read it
““many of these employments based visa are educated here in the United States and we should be harnessing their talents – not sending them out of the country to compete with us ecomonically”
This is the spin I was talking about, not legislation. The detailed summary does not place this language in the bill itself. Read carefully.
Thanks a lot – now you are going to force me to go see if the actual bill is registered in the Senate yet.
I looked in Thomas – its not there – seems no text is available as of yet
I also noted there was no Bill number assigned to it yet
I see how it could read that I was arguing for the bringing over of college kids post 18 years of age (sloppy language on my part); but my intention was rather aimed at those who were brought here say under age 5, educated through our public school systems and went on to work their way through one of our colleges..
But I see though your link, that this bill is actually talking about only about those on visa who are working on our defense applications already, being fast streamed to the top of the list.
The H-1B2… This bill essentually fast-forwards todays intellectual von Brauns for national security reasons..
ok puck – we are arguing semantics here
Coons says its his intent – you say its not
until we see text and/or ammendments who the hell knows
but the argument was worth while and exposes potential flaws
so thanks for that – sorry for the snark – sometimes this medium is frustrating
@Kavips = – there is a H1-B and H2-B an H1-A and a H2-A and a whole alphabet soup
which link r u referring to – the USCIS ones or the visa bulletin?
sloppy tying on my part
the other issues you referr to – kids brought here ilegally by their parents is the DREAM act
whole ‘nother kettle of fish
H-1B2
The job must meet both of the following criteria to qualify as a DOD cooperative research and development project:
The cooperative research and development project or a co-production project is provided for under a government-to-government agreement administered by the U.S. Department of Defense
A bachelor’s or higher degree, or its equivalent is required to perform duties.
To be eligible for this visa category you must meet one of the following criteria:
Have completed a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specific specialty occupation from an accredited college or university
Hold a foreign degree that is the equivalent to a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree in the specialty occupation
Hold an unrestricted State license, registration, or certification which authorizes you to fully practice the specialty occupation and be engaged in that specialty in the state of intended employment
Have education, training, or progressively responsible experience in the specialty that is equivalent to the completion of such a degree, and have recognition of expertise in the specialty through progressively responsible positions directly related to the specialty.**
@kavips – dont know if you are referring to me or not
but I put no link to H-1B2 visas
just to H1-B catagories – its a long list
so you must be lost
Don’t have time to read this thread right now but it looks very interesting. I have to admit that I usually read Coons’ actions as somewhat self-serving through his GORE Corp.-private-stock-holdings glasses. I can’t help thinking that much of what he is bringing forward was cooked up in his stint as a DC lobbyist for his family company.
.
Until unemployment comes down – way down – here is what we need to tell over-quota immigrants.
I didn’t read all the comments, but I just wanted to mention one interesting bullet-point under “Regulatory Relief for Small Companies.” The comment says “The bill also directs the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to conduct and submit a report to Congress within nine months to: Determine how the SEC could reduce the burden of Section 404(b) for companies with a market capitalization of between $250 million and $1 billion” (top of last page of pdf file). Does Coons really think that companies with a market capitalization of $1 billion (or even half that) are small businesses? Or is he being completely disingenuous by calling that “regulatory relief for small companies”? Because that’s straight from his website. And honestly, this whole bill does nothing to help workers. It only helps business owners, when the problem in this country is with demand, not with capital. Another reason I will not be voting for Coons (although his vote on debt ceiling bill was the real kicker)
So Nancy Willing, how about paying your back school taxes and stop cheating the children of the school district out of their funds. Oh, that’s right, you need a job to get the funds to actually pay your taxes, you hypocrite.
🙂 touchy, touchy there Todd.