OK, Occupy, that was stupid.
The Occupy Wall Street movement has been incredibly successful in changing the debate in this country, away from austerity and budget cuts and slashing social programs to further enrich the rich, and toward unemployment and the horrible income disparity that is pervasive in our society. The Occupy movement has once again engaged and inspired the young into direct political action, which is wonderful.
I still support the Occupy movement, but it is time the movement rethink its tactics. Today’s Day of Action and the resulting arrests, violence and horrible traffic and transit disruptions in NYC and Philly will probably lose the protestors support they were already losing. How do I know this? I know it when I see my nonpolitical friends who were otherwise sympathetic to the ideas and ideals behind the Occupy movement say this on Facebook:
I AM part of the “other 99%” AND I contribute to the recovery of the economy everyday by working, and then spending my paycheck to ensure jobs at places I spend my money. So how come the protesters get to block traffic preventing me from getting home, and preventing others from getting TO work! Be passionate and protest…just don’t keep others from doing what they HAVE to (like work) in the process!
Today was stupid. And it is time to rethink and change tactics and strategy so the movement can continue and grow rather than flaming out with nothing but the general public’s resentment rather than support. It has been 60 days, and residents in respective cities do want their public parks back so they can use them too. How about this:
We declare “victory” and throw a party … a festival … a potlatch … a jubilee … a grand gesture to celebrate, commemorate, rejoice in how far we’ve come, the comrades we’ve made, the glorious days ahead. Imagine, on a Saturday yet to be announced, perhaps our movement’s three month anniversary on December 17, in every #OCCUPY in the world, we reclaim the streets for a weekend of triumphant hilarity and joyous revelry.
We dance like we’ve never danced before and invite the world to join us.
Then we clean up, scale back and most of us go indoors while the die-hards hold the camps. We use the winter to brainstorm, network, build momentum so that we may emerge rejuvenated with fresh tactics, philosophies, and a myriad projects ready to rumble next Spring.
Whatever the movement does, it cannot again make life hard and difficult on the very people whose support you are seeking. There cannot be police in the hospital in NYC, no matter how much violence they inflict on the protestors. A nonviolent protest has as its hallmark…. guess what…. NONVIOLENCE.
I guess we’ll just have the revolution after work. No, after happy hour. No, after dancing with stars. Just so I am not inconvenienced, okay?
That depends on what you hope to get out of the protest. I had thought that garnering the public’s support for the movement would be a goal. If it is not, then go ahead, make a young mother be three hours late in picking up her kid from daycare. Fuck her convenience, right? Yeah.
IMO, Occupy might be ready for a transition into… Don’t ask, because I have no idea. They’ve done a great job so far. It just seems that most of the press and protesters these past few weeks have been more focused on “Occupy” than “Wall Street.”
Revolutions are never convenient.
Indeed, and in order for revolutions to succeed, they tend to need public support. Without public support, movements calling for a revolution can backfire. Remember, the revolution in the 1960’s gave us Richard Nixon as President, and but for Watergate giving us four years of Jimmy Carter, would have led to 24 years of uninterrupted Republican rule.
Wall Street is controlled by Washington and that’s where the occupiers need to go! Straining local resources only hurts the 99%. Washington created new laws and regulations that gave Wall Street the deed to America! If Washington can’t take back that deed then it’s up to the people! Government exists to serve the people not the other way around!
“Washington created new laws and regulations that gave Wall Street the deed to America!”
KilroysDelaware, I think the problem is more that Washington has failed to create the new laws and regulations that are necessary to prevent Wall Street from taking advantage of their newfangled ways for raping the pockets of ordinary citizens, in addition to the fact that Washington has weakened many existing laws and regulations that did offer at least some protection. Also, I think the Occupiers are at Wall Street because of the belief that Washington is actually controlled by Wall Street.
Occupy Wall Street needs a renewal. Yes, they got the attention of the media. Good! But it’s now become a story about camping and clashing with cities. Is that what they want us all to discuss?
Occupy is leading by example. The only way to change an intransigent, rigged and mostly plutocratic system like the USA’s is to make it stop functioning. Today’s actions were premature in my view but essentially correct. What needs to happen in the USA is a general strike. Although the political consciousness and will among the populace isn’t yet operative in the USA for a general strike, there is little doubt that a general strike, for even a week or two, would rock and jolt the political system into swiftly making sweeping legislative and economic changes for the better. Today’s actions were an example of what needs to occur on a much larger scale.
“Wall Street is controlled by Washington”
You have that exactly backwards.
That’s right Geezer.
I am not sure a general strike can ever work in the U.S. But before we even get to that discussion, a general strike would have to have the overwhelming support of the people, as you allude to Dana. I agree, it would be a great thing to jolt the system, but right now, I don’t see it happening in the short term, or long term, frankly. The reason why is the union demographics are not there. The populations of Europe are much more unionized that here. I think that is a major hurdle.
Sirhan Sirhan gave us Richard Nixon. Robert Kennedy would have easily beat Nixon in a fair election.
“You have that exactly backwards.”
🙂 either way we’re screwed!
Possibly, assuming the riots in Chicago never happened. And that is a big assumption.
Revolutions? Real revolutionaries have discipline, have thought-out plans, and have guns. Does any of that describe the occupiers?
They say that they are protesting the lack of jobs, but there they were, camped out on Dilworth Plaza, refusing to move, and blocking the start of a $55 million city project to create more green space and better access to public transportation, and create about 800 union jobs in the process.
Now, how does that make any sense at all?
Philadelphia spent about $20,000 to clean up the occupiers’ graffiti in the subway concourse below Dilworth. Then, the “artists” went at it again, leaving the city with another big cleanup, and another unnecessary expenditure. The city is spending multiple thousands on police overtime due to the occupiers, money that they hadn’t planned to spend. As the occupiers demand more benefits from government, they are the direct cause of multiple thousands of dollars in government funds being wasted.
I spent the day in the NYC area and this is not playing so well on the local news. On the other hand, the BBC had folks on from Europe who were stunned that Americans *would* take the the streets like this.
Dana, your understanding of revolutions is narrow, tendentious, and ahistorical
It would be nice if the OWS revolution would move into a different phase of action. State plainly 3-5 demands and see if we can get those accomplished. OWS is starting to look like a group of pissed off people with not much direction other than saying to Wall Street “You SUCK!” We get that part, now what do we do about it?
Move your money, your companies money, and get your communities to move money out of B of A and into credit unions (preferrably) or local banks.
As for “real” revolutionaries, the Boston Tea Party was hardly disciplined or well thought out. And they too were protesting monopolistic corporations. As for guns? Ghandi wasn’t packin heat.
OWS-DC worked with the police for today’s protest march from McPherson Square to Key Bridge in Georgetown. The march started at 2:30 PM and the police and protesters walked together the entire way. There was an agreement not to block traffic and a lane on K Street was made available to them. The marchers kept to the lane and the sidewalks. No major traffic problems and no arrests.
I agree w/ the 1st 3 sentences of what Sussex Anon said.
Present a coherent message & some achievable goals or STFU.
To clarify:
The “Tea Party Activists” (idiots) were successful in the mid-term elections because they had a coherent message (lower taxes). The occupy movement doesn’t have a coherent message & won’t be successful until they can agree on one.
In case you hadn’t heard the two goals of OWS and Occupy Delaware are 1) repeal of the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, the one which deregulated hedge funds, and 2) the overturning of Citizens United vrs FEC, settled the wrong way by the Supreme Court in 2010.
I’m surprised no one knows this?
“To clarify:
The “Tea Party Activists” (idiots) were successful in the mid-term elections because they had a coherent message (lower taxes). The occupy movement doesn’t have a coherent message & won’t be successful until they can agree on one.”
Now that you’ve clarified that, perhaps you need to come to grips with who the “idiots” are.
The most predominate message(s) of the “revolution” to date is: graffiti, vandalism, public defecation, drum circles, solidarity with the man who shot at the White House, paid protesters, union backing, desecrated American flags, destruction of public and private property, mountains of garbage, Michael Moore, drugs, alcohol abuse, iPhones, some imaginative chants such as “follow those kids!”, “Fuck the Police”, anti-Semitic behavior, violence, etc.
And there seems to be a loss of memory as to why they are occupying.
The are occupying because their prior normal voicing of their concerns, was actually silenced, and not carried by the media.
They are so disenfranchised by their own country, that to get heard, they need to make a symbolic protest of “Occupying Part of Their Own Country”. This is not camping, this is protest. One whose message is embodied by the “occupying” of public areas, ones “owned” by the people themselves, in order to make the statement, “that for us to have our grievances heard, we have to militarily Occupy our Own Country”…
Obviously no one here is a historian. Otherwise you’d know that the armies of our founding fathers weren’t worshiped by most of their contemporaries. Instead, they were ridiculed, disrespected, put down, made fun of, and treated as dumb country Yankees who thought they could gain independence by shooting at few British… One report sounds just like DD’s facebook friend, complaining they couldn’t navigate the streets of New York because the rebel army was firing down the streets… So out of it they were…..
Obviously no one here is a historian.. Otherwise you’d know that abolitionists weren’t worshiped by their contemporaries. Instead, they were ridiculed, disrespected, put down, made fun of, and treated as dumb Quakers, Shakers, and Beverage Makers, who thought they could free the slaves across the whole southern half of this nation, by staging demonstrations that blocked traffic, stopped commerce, and just made ordinary citizens lives miserable for that day.. I mean one couldn’t go out their door in New York on some days, and not see a protester carrying a sign saying “Free the Slaves”.
Obviously no one here is a historian… Otherwise you’d know civil rights workers weren’t worshiped by their contemporaries. Instead, they were ridiculed, disrespected, made fun of, put down, and treated as the dumb Southern Negro who actually believed if he carried a sign, he’d one day get to vote, he’d one day get the right to the same education as a white person, he’d one day have a job that paid like it didn’t care what color of skin he had… I mean, they were blocking the streets… arm in arm, traffic at a standstill, singing “kum bah ya” and “We Shall Overcome.”
Obviously no one here is a historian. Otherwise you’d know that anti Vietnam war demonstrators, weren’t worshiped by their contemporaries. Instead, they were ridiculed, disrespected, put down, made fun of, and treated as dumb, strung out, free-loving, hippie college students, who had the audacity to protest being drafted to go to war in a little country, far,far away, that had no relevance whether it was communist or not. How dare they occupy the college campus and prevent paying college students from conducting their studies in a manner…
Obviously no one here is an writer. Otherwise you’d know that I was using repetition to make a statement. You might even have stopped reading at the first sentence, saying I don’t have time for this bullshit… But I used repetition because it was my way of making a point. It was my way of saying that every great cause this nation has ever accomplished within itself, all followed the same pattern. None were sanctioned by the armchair pundits. All were considered lowly, demeaning, unworthy, career busting causes, to keep at arms length and discussed in a disdaining fashion… except by those who went to see what it was all about…..
Anyone who has not been, and writes opinions on what Occupiers are, is a hypocrite. Go visit, listen, discuss. You just might find, they aren’t that far from yourselves..
Yourselves in the future that is… . After you’ve lost your job…then your savings…. then your house… then all your money completely runs out… then your car you’re living in breaks down. Today you’re lucky you have a job. After talking to the Occupyers, you mignt realize that at one time very recently, they too thought they were lucky to have their job, with awesome benefits, tons of vacation, several houses, boats, two cars, and a lifetime pension plan for retirement, …
There but for the grace of god, go I……
So, I’ve said my piece. And they are using tents to say theirs.. More people will “hear” them, than ever read my words.
I’m sure the businessmen of Mubarak’s Egypt were pissed at the traffic around Tahrir Square, too.
And I’m glad that people are annoyed enough to ask what it’s going to take to make them go away.
there IS coherent message for those who haven’t been trained to only listen for bumper-stickers as a political gaol. There have been multiple list of demands released that are backed by the broader Occupations…. the news refuses to report them, and even fellow progressives refuse to seek them out… or remember they exists. OWS has many many demands because many many things nee do be fixed… and notice none of those things include any politician getting elected to unelected….. just the ones who are already their acting in the interests of their REAL bosses… (us) Kapvis i agree with you entirely. The tea party had just one goal… and it WANT lower taxes. it was “kick out the kenyan!!!” then OOPS we cant to that in this election and since their grand battle wasn’t even for president…. look how their elected officials have flamed out. the tea party didnt win. The election of ass hats like Walker, Kasic (sp) and even Scott down in florida will win those states for Obama because they are SO extreme and SO for the wealthiest.
how bout this… the general public gets their non-essential recreational parks back when the general public gets their financial security and American standard of living back. If everyone isnt willing to freeze and take a beating for it and sit back while your life gets eaten by the greedy pigs, there are people who will do it for you.
LG,
unfortunately when the people who supposedly support the movement are saying “maybe you kids should do this somewhere else, i like that park” the movement is facing a much harder climb. At the entrance to Spencer Plaza, there is a sign that says “we know, but democracy is messy” some of you should really think about what that means.
I agree SB. Honestly, the sentiment in this post is more about self-centered convenience than about strategy or tactics.
Liberals like arguing. Conservatives like winning elections.
That’s my bumper sticker message for today.
“The are occupying because their prior normal voicing of their concerns, was actually silenced, and not carried by the media.”
What prior normal voicing of their concerns?
Protesting inconveniences too many people that’s why I applaud them making people jump through hurdles to get permits to do so. Who the hell wants to be bothered by this crap anyway.
OWS should Occupy Walls Street and that’s it. Not these satellite wish I could be there with you BS. It’s like Saying you are going to Penn State when you actually go to one of their campuses in West Chester or wherever.
The tea party had it right. Show up in Mobs at places where the media is going to already be. Go home and show up again somewhere else.
this ows thing was doomed from the start.
They are so sad they couldn’t even be co opted by the Dems…
For once, I agree — sort of — with Jason:
Well, we like arguing, too, but we still like winning elections. 🙂
yeah DV, my lazy ass with my 2 jobs working 7 days a week yet still not happy with the fact that my home state is home to some of the worst offenders in screwing the middle class. shame on me. I should make myself unemployed and go to NY like a REAL activist.
Its clear the old people dont get it.
Miscreant, this thread isn’t about NASCAR. Why are you here? This discussion is out of your depth.
Honestly, the sentiment in this post is more about self-centered convenience than about strategy or tactics.
Sadly, self centered convenience is what drives people in this day and age. Unless you have a way to change that overnight and for all time, than the smarter thing to do is to work around it. The minute you inconvenience someone, you turn that someone who was sympathetic into an opponent.
THAT is why liberals are never effective, because we always say fuck their convenience!! Well, the inconvenienced say Fuck you liberals right back, and then we are all worse off.
no, that is why liberals arent effective in the SHORT term. we’ve been taught over the last 30 or so years that instiant gratification and validation is all that matters. if it takes more than a couple days, it probably wasnt worth it. This isnt going away.
2 posts here have really hit me hard the past few weeks. Ones was LG’s about how the old people need to not run this…. while i initially disagreed, because i feel this movement isnt a “young people’s movement”, but everyone’s, I really understood when (sorry i forget who it was) posted that piece by the Iraq war vet who made the case that the Boomers screwed us all over. It’s true. The people who inherited the best possibly scenario have been destroying for the past 3 decades….. and i couldn’t care less about someone’s inconvenience. Do you know what is inconvenient? BEING FUCKING UNEMPLOYED. (i should know, i was there for a fair amount of time) know what else? NOT HAVING HEALTH INSURANCE AND HAVING A CHRONIC CONDITION… yup, there too. Im not there any more, thank God…. and my own personal will power… but many people are. SO i don’t really care if Suzi Suckhead doesn’t like looking at the tents when she walks across spencer plaza to her job ad Chase. If the aging yuppies have to find another place to drink Starbucks than Zucotti park, maybe they can do it at their homes… or their jobs. Im am mad as hell at the way things are. This isnt a protest drummed up by some news organization…. how dare you compare it in any way at all to the Tea Party. THANK GOD OWS wasnt co-opted by the Dems, or a news network.
the sit-ins and boycotts in the 60 were pretty inconvenient…. guess the dirty liberals shouldnt have done that either.
I posted that Iraq War veteran piece last week.
I have not compared OWS to the Tea Party in orgins. But I think it is correct to look at effectiveness as a comparison. And OWS has been very effective, as I said in this post, in changing the debate. But as Pandora or UI (forget who said it above) said, over the last few weeks the coverage has turned meta. The purpose for the protest has not been talked about, but rather the fights with various cities over what space they can use.
The argument is being lost because the movement is now focusing on the meta. And taking actions that only serve to anger the very people whose support you’re seeking.
Hey, you can ignore me and my opinions all you want, and you can get as angry as you want and you can go piss off and inconvenience more people. OWS can start really rioting and make Chicago 1968 look like a picnic by comparison.
But then OWS will fail. Which will be a tragedy because some much good could have come from it.
ah. well, credit where credit is due. i know YOU havent compared them, but the comparison has been made…. sometimes as a joke.
As far as what they protest is about, again i say…. there have been many defined goals and the various cities’ occupy groups have many goals they all agree on. It is the fault of a lazy media, and lazy people that you dont understand. the problems of this country are bigger than a simple sentence or thesis. they are complicated. FAR too complicated for the lazy BS main stream media (for once i agree with whatshername… it really IS LAMESTREAM) Now in regard to fighting with cities… this is a fundamental part of the fight. Free speech. if “we came unarmed THIS TIME” is goddamn protected free speech, so is a tent.
And i dont ignore your opinions, dude. im responding to them… which means ive considered them and thought on them. Im not saying there should be a riot. Im disgusted with he sexual assaults and drug use. It has to stop. and if the police would stop taking a Shock and Awe approach to OWS it really could be a peaceful occupation.
there was a time, not too long ago, where i would have agreed with you 100%, DD. That the image is just as important as the message. That winning allies and public opinion was key.
But if the public’s opinion is so selfish that personal access to a park bench is more important than their fellow American’s access to a job, or health, or food……. screw em.
Big media is big business and they hate hate OWS. They will do everything that they can to discredit the movement, because, you know, the OWS is nothing but a bunch of dirty, child-molesting, vandalizing, smelly, lazy, unemployed, trouble-making, fucking hippies.
But least Del Dem’s message is consistent: Don’t inconvenience anybody, always compromise, and vote for the Democrat no matter what.
Garrett, shouldn’t you be down at Fletcher Brown/Brandywine Park/Spencer Plaza/Rodney Square screaming like a spoiled child?
No, wait…
damn spoiled kids. the real way to make money is to follow rich people around hoping they drop money….. so when you pick it up and give it back t them like a good slave, maybe they’ll toss you penny.
here is EXACTLY why i hope OWS is never picked up by a party, or back a candidate, or boils the message down to a bumpersticker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-center-for-public-integrity/15-tea-party-caucus-fresh_b_1101194.html
I don’t understand why they consider themselves to represent 99% of the people. I think they should call themselves the one percent. It would be more accurate. I’d like to know how these people can afford this type of activity. Are they being funded by mom and dad or what.
It isn’t very expensive dummy. And, although I can’t believe I have to explain this, the 99% refers to the 99% of Americans who are not among the top 1 percent of Americans who control 42 Percent of the country’s financial wealth.
You are part of the 99% of Americans that have been tricked into the service of the 1% based on promises of wealth or simple racism.
i think i heard Hannity use the exact same wording.
FBH, i would really like to rationally explain this to you, but i just dont trust that you’ll read it with an open mind. sad.
1%-ers are allowed to protest on behalf of the 99%. It’s a free country.
I don’t hear you complaining when broke-ass teabaggers protest on behalf of the 1%.
SB is a wiser man than I.
it isnt pleasant to realize that you are a slave. like one of my favorite musicians said
” America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you’ve lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn’t belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don’t care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve.”
“here is EXACTLY why i hope OWS is never picked up by a party, or back a candidate, or boils the message down to a bumpersticker.”
Right, because what they are doing is working so well right now.
Big media exists, get used to it. Its part of the system and isn’t going away. Learn how to get your message out. And, yes, that means dumbing it down to bumper sticker bullet points.
And get a spokesperson who can communicate these effectively, I am sure “big media” would love to have someone come and explain the movement to them.
Simple statements like “corporations are not people and money is not free speech” Or as Steven Colbert put it “I will believe corporations are people when Texas executes one”
Or “bring the troops and the jobs home now” Negotiating trade agreements that end up with a net job loss is foolish.
It is just that simple. But OWS is starting to look like a disgruntled mob, not wanting to offend anyone by selecting a spokesman, or aligning with a political movement.
Pick your battles and charge up that hill, I will only join in if I know with the objective.
i thought like that too until very recently. The problem is, the media doesnt want to see this movement succeed. at all. so they will do all they can to characterize it the way they want people to see it. Think about who owns…. say Fox News. The game is rigged against the majority so the privileged few can have it all. WE ARE the spokesman/woman. the current system makes the unwashed masses feel like they have won, while giving more money to the top. The current system is broken.
sounds like you will only join if it will be an easy battle.
and by the way….. it has been 2 FREAKING MONTHS. this just more proves that people today have been trained to expect instant results. if OWS had been going on for a year without any signs of growth or change i might be more interested in hearing “you have failed, nothing has changed yet” but there hasnt even been a significant election since this started, so save your criticisms and help. this is for all of you. (unless a DuPont reads this blog) This is so your children dont have to work 7 days a week to pay the bills while going to school and doing freelance side work. This is so no one ever again has to get fired and ends up on the street because their boss’s boss’s boss had to get a bonus to stick around. This is so much bigger than anyone’s desire to relate to a “leader”
Jason330, I guess you must be one of those one percent if you don’t think camping out for weeks on end without working is not expensive. Unlike the OWS crowd, I don’t hold it against you. lol
Yeah FBH, I don’t know how those homeless people afford it.
Actually, have you seen this infographic?
http://holykaw.alltop.com/occupy-wall-street-vs-tea-party-infographic
OWS protesters have higher employment numbers than Tea Partiers. I guess lots of them come over after work, unlike TPers who just have to get home before Hannity comes on.
now FBH has some deep insight into OWS.
they dont hold it against people who arent camping. I dont camp. I have a job…. a good one…. but for some reason im still not happy to see my fellow americans getting screwed out of a decent life because bonuses have to be paid… and by the way, the clothing donations and OccDe are going to homeless people. not the campers who have homes. contrary to what your masters have told you, FBH, they are using this, among other things, to help people. I know it blows your mind since your beloved Tbag party only helped Rupert Murdochs bank accounts, but this is so much higher level than you can apparently grasp.
you’re really looking foolish in this debate. let me know when you’re ready to hear some reasonable points without parroting Hannity.
socialistic ben, I understand more than you might think. I was talking about the fanny paddling frat boys on Wall Street way before I ever heard of OWS. I just don’t think the OWS crowd is on the same page as myself. Wall Street is just the market place. The Obama administration is chocked full of the most elite crowd of Wall Street cronies that I have ever seen. Go protest them.
BTW Hannity is an Idiot, and I have never been to a tea party.
that last statement alone shows you know nothing. the fanny padding frat boys as you call them were able to destroy the economy not because of anything Obama did. if you could remember history, you would remember Grahmm Leach Bliley…. which was under Clinton…. or Bush’s tax cuts+War. but you don’t think about those things do you? everything was honkey doory until Obama, and that is the message your masters teach you. No, FBH, you dont understand at all.
the gumment doesn’t make the decision to fire 5000 americans, the company does. I thought we were all responsible for our own actions… i though corporations were people…. the corporations made their decisions to make money at the expense of humans, they will deal with the consequences.
Teabaggers have to leave the protest to get in line for the early-bird special.
as far as message goes, there can be no discussion on message when 84 year old women are getting pepper sprayed and journalists are being beaten and detained. the goal now is to restore freedom of speech. then we can talk about the rest
If anybody should have a chip on his shoulder about Wall Street it’s me. So don’t tell me about some spoiled dirty petuli smelling hippies on an outing needing my understanding.
there you go again. turn off fox news and go to spencer plaza. no petuli there…. just intelligent people talking about the problems with the country. but willfully ignorant folks like yourself love to hold on to your hate. it makes you feel better about being owned. better get back to massa’, FBH.
you say you have a “chip on your shoulder” yet you continue to support an political ideology that bends you ever again and again and you believe them when they tell you it’s poor people’s fault. Keep voting against your self interests and sneering at those who want to help you. I’ll keep fighting for your interests and feel bad for you because you have Stockholm syndrome
In case you hadn’t heard the two goals of OWS and Occupy Delaware are 1) repeal of the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999, the one which deregulated hedge funds, and 2) the overturning of Citizens United vrs FEC, settled the wrong way by the Supreme Court in 2010.
All the greedy and outrageous crap from Wall Street and Congress and that’s your platform?? I made me an #ows T-shirt, I blogged, I Tweeted, I longed to join the barricades, but for godsakes get an agenda that we can sink our teeth into — there’s so much material. Start with pizza being declared a vegetable and similar corporate outrages that ask us to suspend common sense and our own health. American culture has changed (like it or not) and the old-fashioned protests are easily ignored by turning up the volume on Dancing with the Stars. You don’t have to join the political establishment but be creative, get a real agenda, get some leaders. There are tens of millions of Americans who are waiting for the right signals to join in. Like me.
and what are those right signals? have you been to a GA? doubt it. or else you would know what you can go, voice these concerns, and shape the movement. absolutely nothing gets accomplished by lazily criticizing from a computer and waiting for it to fit your exact requirements to get involved.
sleepy one, you are at the same time saying old fashion protests wont work…. and saying OWS should act like an old fashion protest. waaaa the demands are too complicated for me… BOO HOO get educated, educate others.
and, Gramm Leach Bliley and the Citizens united are 2 of the cornerstones in corporate greed being able to amass huge amounts of wealth at the expense of other, and then use it against them by buying elections so they can do it again…. but harder. those 2 items… the piece of legislation and judicial activism are absolute poison for democracy and you are suggesting we protest PIZZA?!??!
I never watch news on tv ben. I used to watch cnbc, but it just brings back bad memories for me now. As far as going back to massa (quite insulting) well….I prefer Rubens Barrichello.
I honestly don’t know why FBH is a Republican. Why didn’t he pull himself up by his bootstraps?
I am glad you are so high-minded and hyper-educated you can be energized by Gramm-Leach-Bliley but there are much more visceral issues, absurdities and atrocities with which to engage a larger cross-section of citizens.
I have a job, which I am very lucky to have, so no I can’t take indefinite leave to join the barricades, and camp out. Even so, I would bend over backwards to participate if goals were clearly articulated and I were being asked for something specific. I vote, I write, I give money, I can mobilize people within my sphere of influence. The related and successful effort to get people to switch from banks to credit unions is a good example.
i know you always SAY you arent a Foxhead, but you comments are almost word-for word O’reily or Hannity. ok, so you READ them online. whichever it is, the “you” you choose to demonstrate on this site shows a lock step conservative republican who supports the people who made the things in their life they don’t like so and hates the people who try and work to improve everything for everyone. I dont know you and ive never met you, and if that happens some day, my opinion of you might change..
but i choose what people know about me in internet land, and have to deal with how they choose to interpret and view me. that’s how it works.
The pizza-as-a-vegetable is a metaphor, My Obtuse Comrade. Just the most recent example of how we are continually fed lines of corporate BS that are hazardous to our own health, defy common sense, and line Wall Street pockets while taking away personal choice.
what can be more visceral and absurd than banks being alowed to invest people’s money, without their consent or even knowledge in a volatile stock market where none of the risk falls to the bank and all of it to the people?
what can be more enraging than foreign companies being allowed to anonymously give unlimited money to a political campaign so they can gain favor with politicians.
your second paragraph describes me too, La. Im no stranger to your situation. Im telling you this country has the capability to understand these issues. That’s how the pigs win. they get us to fight for pizza and not for equality in the electoral process because it is simple and can be done in time for Bones
tell ya what…. if the Pizza industry…. to follow your example… wasnt allowed to buy politicians (i.e Citizens United) we wouldnt NEED to have the conversation about pizza sauce as a veggie. get it?
pandora…”I honestly don’t know why FBH is a Republican. Why didn’t he pull himself up by his bootstraps?”
I have my boots on right now pandora, no straps though. Does that still count?
lots of words, nothing said
tell ya what…. if the Pizza industry…. to follow your example… wasnt allowed to buy politicians (i.e Citizens United) we wouldnt NEED to have the conversation about pizza sauce as a veggie. get it?
You just made my point. We agree.
lots of words, nothing said
We agree on that, too.
Okay, I was being snarky, but my point remains. I get why rich people are Republicans. Why are you? Is it social issues (god, guns, gays and abortion)? Because, given what you’ve written, it sure isn’t financial.
La, i dont think we are on the same page. unless my reading comprehension has really taken a hit, i thought you were criticizing the choice to protest Citizens united INTEAD of the “ketchup is a veggie” thing. IM saying that IF we take out C.U we also eliminate that plus a whole host of other inane corporate profit makers. please correct me if you need to.
SB, I actually think we do agree, pretty much. I am all for taking out Citizens United and cracking down on hedge funds. But I think the Right is much more successful at finding a rallying point that people can relate to, even if they have to make one up (e.g., “Death Panels,” kids’ lemonade stands run out of business by regulation, ridiculous work rules, Solyndra, the list goes on). To 90% of America, hedge funds and campaign financing are esoteric issues and they can’t make the connection easily. You can call them ignorant, but it doesn’t change their world view or lack of one.
well that’s fair. the problem is, as long as G.L.B is on the books, what prevents companies from doing it all again? They COUNT on us not knowing enough about it to care so they can keep doing it. what would it say to congress if millions of americans knew what that law was and wanted it repealed. MY point is just simply make people aware of it. If OWS didnt have to fight for their right to exist, that message could get out. The first battle is granny getting pepper sprayed.
“sounds like you will only join if it will be an easy battle.” -Socialistic Ben
I am a gay democrat in Sussex County, there are no easy battles. Try manning the Apple Scrapple Democratic Party booth attempting to elect Democrats and being called a commie socialist godless marxist baby killer.
DADT, hospital visitation, civil unions, healthcare reform (lost that one, thanks Obama). All battles. None easy.
I am currently looking for the group that is going to push Obama to grow a pair and turn into “The Rock Obama” and start kicking butt. Been waiting for that for 3 years. The esoteric cerebral fish rots from the head down.
I live a few blocks from Spencer Plaza and have spoken to the Occupyers a few times. They are very bright, very well informed and very passionate. I strongly encourage people to go see them and find out first hand what is going on.
@Kavips, bravo!
Thanks Meesh… 🙂
Democrats have a problem. Do they embrace OWS or distance themselves?
My advice: take a lesson from the Republicans… Remember when Castle was whooped, what happened? The party fully got behind the Tea Party. so much that non Tea Party Republicans actually think the Tea Party is their movement. It got the House. It cut the majority down a little in Senate. It was effective.
The Democrats are shy because of Vietnam. They joined the cause and being associated with Hippies, is still flouted on blogs like Hube’s, who was actually once a hippie himself (you can tell by his cowbell) lol.
Capture the Anger and focus it directly on the Republican Party… That is who is to blame. Republicans, and no one else. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no unregulated derivatives. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no massive deficit. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no recession. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no war for oil. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no war in Afghanistan. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no bailout for banks. If it weren’t for the Republican party, there would be no billion dollar bonuses for showing up. If it weren’t for the Republican Party, there would be no 9/11… Yes, a democrat would have actually read a report that said: Bin Laden to Attack the US and done something about it. Not stuck his head in the sand and let it happen., It is time to retire all Republicans… And this anger of the 99% needs to be aimed exactly at the problem. No where else….
(’bout time someone said it here).
Don’t hold your breath. Kavips. When you have yellow-dog Democrats like DelDem who can’t stand people he deems as “purists,” i.e. people who have allegiance to liberal principles and ideals instead of political parties, then you’re gonna have trouble getting Dems like him to embrace changing entrenched Democratic leadership. Many of the people at the front lines of OWS hold views that are the very type that DelDem derides and despises.
The “vote for Obama no matter what” attitude that DelDem espouses is not going to bring about the changes that Deldem says he wants. The OWS movement would do well to understand that both the Republican and Democratic party establishments want OWS to go away. Having the OWS take advice from entrenched Democrats about how to “succeed” is like taking advice from alligators on how to cross a swamp.
sussex anon, you mentioned 3 victories for your specific cause that happened under Obama….. 3 victories that 41 other presidents didnt even attempt. (delaware passed civil unions, but Obama’s administration decided to stop supporting DOMA) why the double standard?
As far as fighting easy battles, yes. you are waiting for the fight against greed to be fought on the terms and in the venue, and by the people, and with the slogans YOU deem right. Sorry to say, but corporate greed and the destruction of the middle class effects FAR more people than gay rights. (which i also fight for) You’re going to have to join sides, possibly with people who seek to fight against your rights on another day. I will stand with you to fight against them, but for now this HAS to be a coalition fight. What exactly do you need to see to decide it is “happening”? Id seriously like to know, because it was my inability to pick out exactly what i disagreed with that convinced me to really get involved. Forget the democrats. They fight for party just as much as the republicans do… but when it comes down to it, they still serve their corporate lords…. just look at Delaware’s “proud” congressional delegation.
“sussex anon, you mentioned 3 victories for your specific cause that happened under Obama”
I’ll take social liberal victories when I can get them – but they do not counter the economic failures of the Obama administration.
The 1% do not give a fuck if you marry same sex or have an abortion. All they want is your assets and the fruit of your productive labor. And your vote of course.
Gee, SB, are you now joining all the people that you used to mock as “Left Tea Baggers”?
Im not saying they did. SusAn seemed to indicate that Obama has not fought hard enough for gay rights. while I’m not in a position to agree or disagree, (breeder) I can point out that more has been done while he has been president than any other president. But obama should have absolutely nothing to do with the decision to participate in an economic revolution. We dont even need to really change many laws. one act (gramm leach bliley) and one SCOTUS decision coupled with public pressure on these businesses could do a lot.
Not necessarily A1, I DID just attempt to give the President his due with regard to civil rights expansion, and say we need to forget about our differences on social issues so that we may form an alliance to fight corporate greed…. which disqualifies me as a “liberal purist”. I am however pretty sick of the democratic party. It’s a shame they are the lesser of the 2 evils I still have to support to keep out the uber evil that is the republican party.
“Liberal Purists” is only a term created by Democrats who can’t stand criticism of Obama and their Democratic Party. In absence of a cogent argument to support Obama, they needed some names to call his detractors, so they made up that one. But the so-called “lefty teabaggers” and “firebaggers” that you and others have derided in the past are now the same people being pepper-sprayed on the front line of OWS.
that’s not true. people being pepper sprayed, and beaten also consist of iraq war vets…. people you have criticized as violent killers. remember sgt thomas? This is NOT a liberal movement. One of the big players in OccDe is a stanch libertarian. (not a Fraud Paul Ayn Randist) This is why i approve of OWS so much. It is neither a democratic party cheer leading section (what the T-bags were…. i say were, because their “movement” has been flushed) nor is it a far-left set of ideals.
Do you really think those people are submitting to pepper spray on behalf of pre-compromise, bipartisanship, austerity, and tax cuts for the rich?
I agree OWS is non-partisan, and that is a good thing. But the protesters are not Republicans; they are disaffected liberals who have lost meaningful representation.
OWS did not form until the collapse of the traditional Democratic agenda was no longer plausibly deniable and all hope in Democratic leadership was lost. This occurred under the Obama administration, with a boost from Harry Reid.
You know, between the OWS liberals without a party, and “Democrats for Kovach” – all the signs are pointing to the formation of a third party. I just don’t see how it could happen. But then again I didn’t see OWS coming either.
You’re correct, the OWS movement consists of many different types of people with many different backgrounds. What is doesn’t consist of are the people who said that anything that Obama and the Democrats did was good enough and that his critics should shut-up because they are just purists and Lefttea baggers or “firebaggers.”
And I have never criticized “iraq war vets….as violent killers.” I specifically criticized Sargent Thomas for saying to the cops that if they wanted to hurt and kill people they should go to Iraq.
And the demands and ideals of the OWS movement are certainly very far left in todays political climate relative to both the Democrats and the Republicans.
that is not what i said. Based on my experiences attending OWS events in wilmington, philly and dover (only one GA there) i do not get the sense that this is a “liberal idealist” movement. despite the media’s best attempts to paint it as a disorganized mob of whiny kids, this is a diverse group with a increasingly common goal.
OWS the name formed as a near joke by Ad Busters… (i think that is absolutely poetic) and it happened to strike a nerve with a lot of people who had been feeling a certain way for a very long time. it isnt a trent, it isnt a wave… it is a culmination of 30 years of abuse…. and 99% of us have been being abused
++ puck @ 9:31
the thing is too many people cant wrap their minds around the model of a movement that decides on what it is AFTER it forms…. a bunch of people get together with he mer goal of finding common ground with a vague idea of what it is they are fighting against. seriously, how cool is that? It makes a truly organic “of the, by the, and for the” movement RATHER than the exclusionary aspect of “this is what we are, this is what we believe, this is what you have to be to be a part of us” that typifies so many groups left right and center
Police departments everywhere are lucky our Iraq/Afghan vets are only shouting at them. Even without violence, these guys know tactics that could effectively counter standard crowd control methods.
“people cant wrap their minds around the model of a movement that decides on what it is AFTER it forms”
When you lose your home you tend to wander around in the sreets for a while before you find another place to be. OWS has lost its home in the Democratic party.
And make no mistake, they didn’t leave the party, the party left them.
Wasn’t it just a year or so ago we were chortling that Republicans were a party of old people and a Southern rump organization?
Now we have lost the youth, with nobody to blame but ourselves.
Crap, I am so old now I have to take some blame myself.