School Choice By District, Or One Of These Districts Is Not Like The Other
When it comes to Choice the Red Clay Consolidated School District wins. Take a look at these numbers:
# of Students in District: 15,954
Total Choice Students: 4946
# of Students in District: 17,190
Total Choice Students: 1409
# of Students in District: 10,657
Total Choice Students: 1982
# of Students in District: 9,925
Total Choice Students: 296
First, I don’t have a problem with responsible Choice. What I mean is… go ahead and offer Choice if space exists.
But…
Red Clay has almost 5,000 Choice students. Which then begs the question… who exactly are they building the new elementary school and adding space at A.I. High for?
A.I. High School is scheduled for additional classrooms and they have 647 Choice students. Meanwhile, Dickinson High School’s capacity is 1133 students and they currently have 618 students. McKean’s capacity is 1383 with 897 students currently attending. That’s approximately 1,000 empty seats, and yet, District is asking tax payers to add additional classrooms to A.I High School?
And don’t forget… we have approximately 700 Choice students at the stated overcrowded elementary schools
Red Clay obviously loves, loves, loves Choice, but I’m wondering if their relationship with Choice isn’t an abusive one. One in which Red Clay taxpayers foot the bill.
Tags: Education
When it comes to Blog Award time at year’s end, Pandora’s blogging about Red Clay deserves highest honors.
I want to be like Pandora when (if) I grow up.
Are those students who have choiced in to the district or choiced out of the district? Or students who have choiced to other schools in the district?
Choice in the district. If you click on the link you’ll find all the breakdowns. Here’s Red Clay’s:
Number of Choice Students Red Clay:
Local (in-district) – 3693
State (out-of district) – 1191
Federal (NCLB- School Under Improvement) – 62
Federal (NCLB- Unsafe School) – 0
Federal (NCLB- Victim of Violent Felony) – 0
Total: 4946
Thanks, El Som. All my numbers come from information given to the State of Delaware from the school districts. I’m sure I’ll be told these figures are as wrong as the cited capacity figures or Jack Wells’ information… There’s a theme here.
You know… it might be wise for someone in power to put a hold on this referendum until everyone is on the same number page. And I didn’t even mention the new mega school opening in Wilmington and how this school will impact the numbers. Remember, it’s a “game-changer.”
Ive never heard a very convincing argument for school choice. It allows one school to be elevated while other turn to shit. WHen I was in Brandywine, it was the choice school (i was there because of location) and it was head and shoulders above concord and mount. in test scores, arts programs, you name it. Now, mount is the choice school and, by all accounts Brandywine…. has lost some prestige. I feel like it is the easy way out of doing a good job at improving every school
” and the taxpayers vote to fund the improvements,”
That’s they key. Taxpayers arent very keen on funding anything. Just ask the teachers who get fired after referendums. … these are also the same people who bitch years later at how bad the education system is.
I beg to differ a bit. If AI High School has students who want to there, and the other high schools are below capacity, isn’t it entirely fair to ask the voters if they want to build additional capacity at AI High School or force students to go to a school they obviously would prefer not to go to?
Why, one wonders, do Dickinson and McKean has excess capacity, while AI is busting at the seams, and isn’t the solution for folks at Dickinson and McKean to take steps to make their schools more attractive so more students want to go there?
If parents want their children to attend AI rather than one of the other high schools, and the taxpayers vote to fund the improvements, then that should be the end of the discussion. That’s why we have referendums. If taxpayers would rather force students to go to a school they don’t want to go to by using mandatory feeder patterns, then that’s a choice they can make as well. But “rescuing” schools which are undersubscribed by forcing students to attend them seems unlikely to result in any changes to those schools which would make them more attractive.
I am in no way defending Red Clay on this, but…
I think the fact that Red Clay has high levels of choice is already pretty well known. But isn’t that because, unlike other districts, choice is Red Clay’s chosen solution for the current desegregation order, as an alternative to forced busing?
In other words, if choice students are kicked out, or if choice gets shut down in enough schools, doesn’t Red Clay risk being declared resegregated, and have to find some other desegregation solution? (i.e., forced busing).
Why, one wonders, do Dickinson and McKean has excess capacity, while AI is busting at the seams, and isn’t the solution for folks at Dickinson and McKean to take steps to make their schools more attractive so more students want to go there?
No, it isn’t the folk’s (who are these folks, btw?), at Dickinson and McKean, responsibility. It’s the District’s responsibility – you know, the people in charge and responsible for ALL their schools.
Pan, no one ever told you the first rule of administration. it is your responsibility when the schools do well, it is the school’s responsibility when they dont
Mike, Red Clay has re-segregated. Look at the city schools.
If Red Clay was concerned with re-segregation then they would attempt to create diversity in their racially identifiable, high poverty schools. They would have tried out programs in those schools that all parents would find educationally desirable. They may not have worked, but at least they would have tried. They haven’t attempted one blessed thing.
The only thing RCCD has accomplished through Choice is overcrowded “desirable” schools due to people fleeing “undesirable” under capacity RCCD schools – and everyone in Red Clay knows exactly which schools to avoid.
“Mike, Red Clay has re-segregated. Look at the city schools. ”
Yes, but so far not in the eyes of the courts – because Red Clay has choice. That may be a flimsy fig leaf, but as I understand it, the choice program is what is keeping Red Clay from being declared out of compliance with desegregation.
If Red Clay were to effectively close choice, then the courts may take another look at it. I suspect that is very much on Red Clay’s mind.
I bet it is on their mind. And if your point is correct then we know what isn’t on their mind – the children and the taxpayer.
All the school districts I listed have Choice. Choice isn’t unique to Red Clay. How it’s used in Red Clay stands out.
And now I’m confused… Red Clay states that Choice has nothing to do with the proposed new elementary school – they’re relying on the Neighborhood School’s Law for this – and if this is true then it blows up your Choice theory (Not really, but it makes you off RCCD’s message). Yet, they tell the Highlands community that the new school will open up more Choice. Which is it?
I don’t have time to look it up right now, but I understand that the forced busing order was only lifted after each district presented an acceptable plan for maintaining desegregation. Red Clay offered choice, while Brandywine relied on its carefully drawn feeder patterns and continued busing. Isn’t that the case? Not sure how Christina came out. I’m sure somebody reading this knows the whole story.
So it makes perfect sense that Red Clay relies more heavily on choice. It’s what they promised the courts they would do, in order to end forced busing.
I’m not sure Red Clay CAN stop choice, or limit it drastically, without potentially reopening a desegregation hearing. Of course if they are in fact resegregated, that might not be a bad idea.
Just to clarify in case anybody misreads:
“Of course if they are in fact resegregated, a desegregation hearing might not be a bad idea.”
🙂
Who cares about resegregation!? As long as neighborhood schools are equal in the amount of money being spent per student, then all should be fine, right?
Do all of the schools in the district offer the same classes? If so, why are people allowed to choice from one school to another in the district? I can understand safety concerns, but shouldn’t all of the schools in the district have the same amount of money per student? And if they do, why is one school “better” than another?
MJ,
“Better” schools to me = more disciplined students, higher test scores, better colleges attended, happier teachers, high student moral, high student participation rate in extra-cirriculars, more successful interscholastic sports teams, increased parental/community involvement, school pride, access to a diversity of programs (not just college prep classes, but ‘old’ things like automotive, woodshop and metal working) etc.
A.I. duPont, among many other HS’s in northern NCCo WERE like this once upon a time. Including the one I went to, WP.
My attempts at answers:
“Do all of the schools in the district offer the same classes? ”
Mostly yes, but each school may determine its own offerings within limits set by the state.
“If so, why are people allowed to choice from one school to another in the district? ”
That is the escape hatch that allows Red Clay to say it doesn’t require students to attend segregated schools.
“I can understand safety concerns, but shouldn’t all of the schools in the district have the same amount of money per student? ”
No. Some schools have more expensive programs for legitimate reasons.
“And if they do, why is one school “better” than another?”
Usually because of performance outcomes, as reported on the school profile site. You generally want your children to go to schools with more high-achieving students. But also because of word-of-mouth. Or because the school is has some narrow offering you need for your individual child: A better Special Ed team, better ESL support, more AP classes, etc.
Because they are not equal educationally. High poverty schools are very expensive, so the same amount of money spent at every school results in education units at high poverty schools being used to address those needs, while other programs (TAG, Tech, etc.) are cut. These lost programs then result in limiting educational opportunities at high poverty schools – which then makes them undesirable to other non-poverty groups.
High poverty schools don’t need the same as other schools – they need more. That was what the Brandywine School District cited to wiggle around the Neighborhood Schools Law – The hardship that high poverty schools create.
“Who cares about resegregation!? As long as neighborhood schools are equal in the amount of money being spent per student, then all should be fine, right?”
Why do i feel like i would use those exact words to make a sarcastic point?
QP, there is a real interesting study on this in our nation’s history. Not may people know about it, so im glad you made that comment so i can bring it to light. it took place between (roughly) 1870 and 1970… to really get an idea though, look into a region of america called “the south”. 1950-68 is a good benchmark on this “separate but equal” idea you have. Also google Jim Crow…. it’s really shocking that no one knows about any of this.
I looove getting down to brass tacks – your ability to present these numbers is an inspiration!
“Who cares about resegregation!? As long as neighborhood schools are equal in the amount of money being spent per student, then all should be fine, right?”
This is an intuitive line of thinking. I think it myself all the time. Then as a white guy, I have to remind myself that it amounts to “separate but equal.”
.
That drives me crazy, Mike. I just visit each individual site and take notes.
Pandora,
‘WHY do they take more?’…should be the question.
Last I checked, scholastic tasks such as identifying the constituent parts of a single-celled organism and memorizing lines in Macbeth don’t discriminate between rich and poor student.
So what else is it then?
I had said the profiles site should allow export to spreadsheet so we can compare data across districts. I withdrew the comment to check that out some more, because some of the pages do in fact allow export to spreadsheet, like this one. (I think I got that link from you).
SB,
Taking lessons from the past is all well and good.
However, as we move toward a more race blind/neutral society, neighborhoods and therefore, local schools will automatically become increasingly diverse. No need to draw arbitrary lines and bus 5 year-olds 30 minutes each way.
Though, diversity for diversity’s sake isn’t that great an ideal either. The quality of teaching and therefore, the education received, should be THE paramount goal regardless of how some social engineer with a “PhD” from Wilmington College ‘spreadsheets and pigeon-holes’ students by race/class/ethnicity etc.
@QP I could not agree more on your definition of what makes good schools good!! I wish they rated schools on this basis. I would really like to see a more holistic rating system that represents these things and I think as parents and concerned community members it would be a cool goal. The fact of the matter is, the higher the poverty rate of a school, the less likely they are to be able to maintain those great things.
Even if the classes and standards are ostensibly the same, they end up being taught with different sets of expectations. If each school not just as the sum of the money their kids represent but a compilation of assets represented by the students’ socioeconomic background – how educated their parents are, what jobs their parents hold – and you visualize the intangible assets at a school like North Star it would be a great deal more expansive than what you would see at Shortlidge. (It’s tangible too though, try comparing their PTA fundraiser outcomes.) Making a visualization of might be another fun project for data junkies to explain these things to those of us that aren’t!
Balancing out the picture benefits all children. I’m sure there’d be plenty who’d disagree with me but I’d argue that affluent children do not stand to lose anything in the balance, while poor, isolated children are losing everything as the ceiling of what is offered at the schools where they are locked in (choice or not) is lowered. Being mixed in with students from less poor backgrounds keeps the ceiling from caving in, so any and every student can have those options available, even if their own parent is unwilling or unable to identify their needs and go shopping for a school that meets them. I see this at my own school where that ceiling is being held up by an absolutely minute group of educated, non-poor parents…and still it makes a difference in the school culture.
For the record, QP, I do think busing is a thing of the past…no way that’s coming back! The term itself is probably outdated…are people really even using the schoolbuses these days?
Most of the students in Cape go to school on the bus.
Most of the students in Red Clay go to school on the bus – and most of those bus rides aren’t short 10 minute rides.
QP – personally, I think we overemphasize interscholastic sports. Granted it might be the only way some kids can afford to go to college, but Red Lion is a good example of what happens when schools lose sight that they’re in the education business, not trying to perfect the next John Elway or Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
Okay, I was just curious. My own child rides the bus but most of my neighbors and friends seem to be driving their kids all over the place and I hear so much talk about crazy car lines at the schools, I felt like the only one!
Ah… I misunderstood your question, Coolspringer. My point was that most people don’t walk to their neighborhood school.
But your point on people driving their kids to school is valid. Most of these parents are driving because they Choice out of their feeder, go to private school or a charter.
Are Cab students included in that “choice” number, also CSW? If so that could significantly throw off a reasonable comparison between districts.
CS,
Yes, they are still being bused hither and yon. And the only way this will end completely is if we demolish the suburbs and re-build them on gridded streets like the suburbs west of Chicago. Barring this impossible extremism, we can only hope to LIMIT busing via the mandating of neighborhood schools that are equal (demographics be damned) and walkable for the vast majority of their pupils. As gas prices rise to $4, 5 or even 6 dollars a gallon, not only are school districts going to feel the pinch of transporting students, but so too will parents of all stripes.
MJ,
As someone who played interscholastic sports successfully enough to play at a D-1 level in college (track and field), I actually agree, sports are overemphasized! However, they are still important for, at the very least, the lessons they teach to all participants. What sports need are a re-emphasis on these lessons and not the one in million chance of becoming the next Jeremy Lin.
Red Lion (a tiny private school desirous of playing with the big boys) was being lead by the nose by unscrupulous-minded individuals who saw a way to glom onto potential ‘cash mules’ as they moved up the ranks. Which is quite a bit different than public schools, which can’t/don’t/need to receive such a high degree of outside influence (i.e. monetary donations). They’ve been found-out and the program is back on the right track. All the athletes with no desire to be “student-athletes” and their hangers-on are now gone. Good riddance!
Hmm, Cab is included, CSW is not. Cab has approx. 400 in-district choice, and approx. 400 out-of-district choice. So… approx. half the school is out-of district?
CSW is not included in the choice numbers? Am I right in thinking CSW is a Red Clay sponsored Charter? If so, it would be interesting to know how many out of district students attend.
CSW offers Red Clay students admission preference. Not sure how that breaks down, but will search for those numbers.
Student Admissions Policy September 26, 2011
http://www.charterschool.org/aboutus/boardofdirectors/downloads/minutes/092611minutes.pdf
A proposed Student Admissions Policy was circulated to Directors in advance of the meeting. Henry Clampitt moved to have the Board discuss this proposal as a whole; the motion was seconded and passed by unanimous consent.
Discussion was active among all Directors, notably with regard to the specific-interest preference and the priority-order of all preferences. Resulting amendments with general support included (i) the combination of four interest-rubric factors into a single 65-point category (teacher recommendations; honors enrollment; extracurricular activities; applicant essay); and (ii) a requirement to report total rubric scores to applicants who scored less than 325 points.
Following discussion of the wording of these amendments, Henry Clampitt moved to approve the proposed Student Admissions Policy with the two amendments; the motion was seconded and passed by unanimous vote.
As seen on the NJ education blog and Kilroy, actually NJ stole from Kilroy.
Comments on admissions to CSW from Charles Baldwin. See Kilroy’s blog.
http://charterschool.org/message-from-csw-president-charles-baldwin-19
When adjusted for the two magnet schools that by default have all choice students, the numbers are a bit inflated. But even when you account for the 1500 choice students between Conrad and Cab, Red Clay still has 3,350 choice students.