It’s Raining Charter Schools!
Odyssey Charter has been working on a deal for the old Wanamaker’s building and is planning to open a Charter High School in that location. I had heard about this week and was emailing everyone to find out if this was true. Kilroy, as usual, finds the answer:
Application to Modify an Exsiting Charter – Odyssey Charter School
Facilities Letter
Letter with ConditionThe first prospective acquisition is a land/building purchase consisting of approximately 14 acres and an existing building with approximately 200,000 square feet under roof between 2 stories. Known as the Wanamaker Building, it is a well known landmark in the Wilmington area that is conveniently located within a 5 mile radius of existing Odyssey operations. A Letter of Intent to purchase the property was signed between the owners and Odyssey in Jun 2011. With a timeline in place, the property did not appraise to the level that was expected in the original sale and building renovation projections. Two banks have been working the financing package for Odyssey and both have requested that an “as built” appraisal be performed for Wanamaker to potentially reconcile the perceived loan to value gap. That appraisal will be forthcoming by the end of February 2012. In the meantime, Odyssey is in active negotiations with the owner to craft an alternative potential lease/purchase agreement that may relieve the initial financing constraints. Renovation floor plans have been developed for the Wanamaker building and are provided in Exhibit A.
This charter is in addition to the 2,000 seat mega-charter moving into the donated BofA building. That’s a lot of city charter.
Bet my prediction of a city charter district doesn’t look so far fetched now, does it? All that’s left to figure out is which city public schools become the dumping ground schools – You know, the public schools that will be needed to house the students Charter schools won’t take or will kick out. This is why I laugh every time someone insists, in all caps, that a charter school is a PUBLIC school.
Here’s the deal… if a public school district wants to build a new school, build additions to an existing school, or take over a building and turn it into a school they must inform the community and allow for community input – and, yeah, they aren’t very good at this. Charters seem to seal the deal and then inform the community. Kilroy shows this in action in regards to Newark Charter School:
State Board of education: Application to Modify an Existing Charter: Newark Charter School (For Action) The Board of Directors of this school submitted a Modification Application before the deadline of December 31, 2011 seeking approval to add a high school. The Charter School Accountability Committee has issued its reports on the application. A public hearing on the application was conducted on March 7, 2012.The Secretary will make her recommendations with respect to the application.
To which Kilroy asks:
How can the Charter School Accountability Committee issue a report before completion of public meeting on the 7th? No disrespect to Newark Charter school and parents but for really! How can a report be complete before the required process is competed. It makes it appear public input doesn’t matter. But anyhow, an early congratulation to Newark Charter.
A report can be complete before the required process because the real deal has been done. Everything that follows is simply window dressing. I expect there will be a lot of nodding at tomorrow’s meeting, maybe even a bit of I feel your pain, and then… Approval!
Back to Odyssey and the BofA building: Questions are already being raised concerning the BofA mega-charter and how it will handle all the buses arriving and departing in downtown Wilmington? Parents dropping-off and picking-up children? Fire drills? Sport’s fields?
And there’s no way the current intersection at the old Wanamaker’s building can stay the same when Odyssey moves in. That will need to be drastically improved and I’m seeing the need for an additional traffic light further up the hill. And what about the increased traffic through the surrounding neighborhoods? In the morning and afternoons this area is saturated with school buses and school traffic. Within blocks of this new charter you’ll find Salesianum High School, Friends School (Pre K-12), and Warner. Broom Street is already gridlocked. So… Will Odyssey be coming to the community with their plans? Or is this another done deal?
We really need to put a hold on these charters until everyone is in the loop. Charter Schools insist they’re public schools, if so, perhaps they should have to include the public before going ahead with their plans.
And still no public vote has been taken on the mega-charterization of New Castle County.
I think with so many new seats to fill, all charters will have to become less exclusionary, putting the charter model to a more realistic test.
Charters will finally get to try out their “competition” model, except they will now be competing with each other, which is probably not quite what they had in mind.
And they won’t all necessarily have the kinds of students they thought they would have. They will be trying to fill all those seats only with children who are above average.
And… Can we all pledge right now not to bail out any of these charters when they inevitably overextend themselves?
Also, in something I read on DontDestroyChristina, it appears that Meece got some unidentified personal angels to back the capital needed to construct NCS after Tom Carper convinced the train company to sell their land.
I would like to know the identities of the persons who backed the bank note for NCS and whether their kids are enrolled. Just sayin’.
And, the above post says a lot about process. In Delaware the deals are cut in the Delaware Way and the public is kept in the dark as long as possible.
Which begs the question –
Was the evidently-long-standing arrangement to foster a Charter Building downtown related to the whole charade about moving the pubic bus terminal away from Rodney Square—a move which was only temporarily stullified – DART backed off to wait for the heat to die off and will be bringing it back–?
Bringing bused children onto the square may be the new State priority.
The charter law was always a ticking a time bomb that appears to have finally exploded, triggered by the recession which has caused an oversupply of large white elephant buildings.
MBNA was the epitome of large white elephants. Who can forget that, for the third year in a row, Nathan Hayward dipped into his Congested Corridor Acquisition (slush) fund to buy something that greased the way for a whooooooole lot of money to go to or to have already gone to some of those filthy political palms –when he purchased the downtown MBNA building BoA refused to take in the buy-up? Or purchased to sweeten the deal on behalf of Cawley, at least.
First Hayward acted for Minner and friends in the purchase of Garrison’s Lake golf course in the sticky three-way deal between the state government body, Paul Clark’s wife, Pam Scott of Saul Ewing and her client Bayberry/Garrison’s etc. developer Jay Sonecha. (that year Sonecha dontated mucho dollars to her 2004 campaign when the ink was drying on the Garrison’s deal and ten days after that on the Bayberry Infrastructure public/private boondoggle we are still suffering under. He rather sweetly also gave her a 20K lump sum for her 2nd term inaugural ball at the Chase Center IIRC).
Next, Hayward signed off on the public purchase with these funds to buy the golf course at Louviers. All of this money was snuck into the Bond Bill epilogue usually by Roger Roy.
Thank goodness for the talent on the News Journal and WDEL and watchdogs like John Flaherty who began to bring this stuff into the limelight. By the time the MBNA/BoA building public purchased in this manner, the public was onto Minner/Hayward et al.
There is a slew of deals yet uncovered and if we read between the lines, what Secretary Bhatt is telling us is that there aren’t many paper trails still existing down in Dover –which infers criminal acts were committed. HIGH DEM SHREDDING PARTY anyone?
“And still no public vote has been taken on the mega-charterization of New Castle County.”
Why would one be?
I realize that it is still all the fashion to believe that “choice” is magical educationally. But I see it resulting in an underpaid and largely inexperienced teaching staff with demonstrably high turnover rates. On its face it’s a counterintuitive and predictably bad mode for producing educational excellence. No wonder charters want to select the students they admit to their programs. Otherwise they can’t compete comparatively with public schools in performance. All of this choice business is little more than a cover to eventually divest some of the amount of tax dollars we spend on education so that publicly dispirited people can pocket the savings. The funny thing is that one need only look at the educational practices of many of the European social democracies whose schools perform far better than ours for a model. You won’t find creating schools from scratch staffed with underpaid novices as a practice in those educational systems.
“And still no public vote has been taken on the mega-charterization of New Castle County.”
Why would one be?
For local control and self-determination for our own school systems. If this is not important to you then we believe in different political systems.
We just had a referendum on whether to build a new public school. Technically the referendum was whether to authorize the spending for the new school. But really, it was a public vote on whether to open a new 650-seat elementary school.
But charter schools, by not receiving capital spending, are exempt from a public vote on whether the community wants to open a new school or not. The decision is made by corporate sponsors and boards of appointed officials.
To bypass a public vote on a new public school, all it takes is money. This is the loophole in the charter school law that our corporations and our elite citizens have finally ripped wide open and are now streaming through.
Chuck Baldwin warned us about the attitude of Delaware’s elite. They don’t have enough places to run and hide from the unwashed masses, so they are building some more.
The new corporate-sponsored mega-charters will do for public schools what Walmart does for independent stores.
Agreed, Mike. And the Walmart example is dead on. And try moving a liquor store or adult entertainment into Hockessin without informing the community.
Charters effect other schools and communities. Charters also cannot survive without public schools – someone has to take in, or take back, the kids charters won’t. Charter schools’ flimsy success (because most charters aren’t doing better than public schools) is based on excluding certain kids.
And this: Can we all pledge right now not to bail out any of these charters when they inevitably overextend themselves?
Yes. 100% yes.
Don’t Destroy Christina reminds us of the blueberry story:
“The new corporate-sponsored mega-charters will do for public schools what Walmart does for independent stores.”
That would be more accurate if it were written “what Walmart and the people who shop there do for independent stores.” It really does take two to tango and I have never seen anyone strongarmed by a Walmart goon squad forcing them into the store.
I’m not going to pretend I’ve never been to Walmart, but I shop local and I buy local. We all have a choice and if the independent stores are important to us, then they won’t go out of business. While lower prices is certainly a consideration, it is not the only consideration unless one chooses to make it so.
Speaking of it’s raining charter schools, Sussex Academy in Sussex County has applied to modify there charter to include a high school. There is a mountain of accusations against them for lottery corruption as well as corruption on the school board. It has become a school that cater’s to certain families and certain kids that can support the high school monetarily or support the administration’s agenda. While the middle school has been academically successful, they have been pulling farther away from the integrity that they were built on. The school has been lucky to continue it’s success due entirely to an excellent faculty teaching strong core classes. A high school began by a different administration and different board members will not follow in the middle school’s footsteps but it will drain the middle school funds and lead to the downfall of both schools. This school’s modification is facing very similar issues that are mentioned here, under the table approval without public input, overextending themselves, funding issues, and this is just the beginning. Help advocate against charter schools state-wide, Sussex County needs strong voices like the ones on this site to mount opposition against this proposed high school.
I had been asked to serve on the advisory committee for SA’s move to build the high school, that is until they found out that I oppose charter schools.
Where publicly subaidized Charters meet Affordable housing and the public is left behind –
Newark Project Aims to Link Charter Living and Learning
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/realestate/commercial/newark-project-aims-to-link-living-and-learning.html?adxnnl=1&hpw=&adxnnlx=1331124379-99gCShKdQXloeK+ORRFQ9Q
NEWARK — Work has begun on an education-centered community featuring three charter schools and affordable housing for teachers in the city’s decayed downtown, with much of the design work done by the noted architect Richard Meier.
The development, called Teachers Village, is expected to cost $149 million when it is completed two years from now. It will consist of eight low-rise buildings clustered around the intersection of William and Halsey Streets, in Newark’s Four Corners historic district. As such, Mr. Meier has designed buildings to reflect the historical nature of the area.
Teachers Village is receiving millions of dollars in government subsidies in various forms, with $14.2 million being provided in equity by the developers. Two of the buildings, together about 134,000 square feet, will be leased to the charter schools and day care while offering retail space on the ground floor. The other six buildings, totaling about 289,000 square feet, will contain as many as 220 rental apartments for teachers with retail space on the ground floor.
Teachers Village received its final approval at the city level in March 2011, but did not break ground until last month with a ceremony that included Mayor Cory A. Booker, Gov. Chris Christie and several private developers and investors.
Mayor Booker, who has shepherded the project from its first presentation in 2010, was not available for comment and referred a reporter to a news release: “Teachers Village shows that when Newark dreams big and makes ambitious plans, we can achieve development projects that meet the highest standards for innovation and excellence. While the global economy is struggling, we in Newark have fought to create transformative change that will lead to educational, economic, and social gains for our citizens.”
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While the project seems to have the city’s unqualified support, some residents have protested the inclusion of the charter schools instead of traditional public schools, and others have said they felt left out of the planning process and disliked the project’s reliance on large public subsidies.
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Ron Beit, a managing member of the lead developer, the RBH Group of Manhattan, said, “We were very committed to the point that you needed to create this community overnight.” Other partners include the billionaire investor Nicolas Berggruen; the private equity giant Frederick Iseman; the financier Warren Lichtenstein and his firm, Steel Partners Holdings; and the short-term commercial lender BRT Realty Trust.
Teachers Village is the first step of a development project by the same developers that will entail building or rehabilitating 15 million square feet of space, including several skyscrapers, on 32 parcels of land downtown.
The school spaces have been leased to two established Newark charter schools, Team Academy and Discovery Charter School, and a new charter, Great Oaks Charter School. The schools, with a charter school that abuts the site, are expected to accommodate about 1,360 children.
They and their families are potential customers for the stores that will occupy the 64,000 square feet of retail space being built, Mr. Beit said. So are the residents of the 220 apartments, which are not restricted to teachers, he said.
The residences in Teachers Village will be marketed toward Newark educators in charter schools, traditional public schools, private schools and universities, Mr. Beit said. About 40 studio apartments must be kept affordable according to government requirements, but Mr. Beit said the public subsidies involved in the project will enable developers to keep all their prices low — about $700 a month for a studio; $1,000 to $1,100 for a one-bedroom; and $1,400 for a two-bedroom apartment, he said.
“Our vision for Newark is really sort of a middle-income utopia, very much like how Queens and the outer boroughs have succeeded tremendously with their retail,” said Mr. Beit, who is working with Jacobs Enterprises of Clifton, N.J., to build the retail space.
He said the larger downtown development, which is to have a wide range of rental apartments and condominiums, both subsidized and market rate, may eventually draw more upscale retailers and affluent residents attracted by Mr. Meier, who is known for buildings like the Getty Center in Los Angeles.
…While residents appear to be in consensus regarding the need to revitalize downtown Newark, several said Teachers Village would not serve a broad enough swath of city residents. Donna Jackson, a full-time community activist, said many members of the public felt disengaged from a planning process that largely involved only business owners.
“We have no problem with improvement going on in downtown Newark,” she said. “The problem is this new development continues to drive out Newarkers. Most of us in Newark feel that again this is another prime example of segregation and building for only a certain few.”
Cassandra Dock, another activist, said that at public meetings before the Newark Preservation and Landmarks Committee and planning board in 2010, Teachers Village was described as being fully financed by private investors, and news reports from that period bear that out.
Adam Zipkin, Newark’s deputy mayor for economic and housing development, said that while Teachers Village is receiving many tax credits, “we’ll still be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in the other additional property tax payments, tax abatement payments, as well as payroll taxes and parking taxes, so the project is obviously good for the city financially, but it’s so much more than that. It’s hundreds of construction jobs, and hundreds of permanent jobs that Newark residents have substantial opportunities with.”
Mr. Beit said the project was first presented as being partly publicly financed. Teachers Village is receiving subsidies that include $22.7 million in Qualified School Construction Bonds; $5.3 million of Redevelopment Area Bonds; Federal New Market Tax Credits worth about $38 million and New Jersey Urban Transit Hub Tax Credits from a New Jersey Economic Development Authority allocation of $39 million. The project is also receiving $12 million in loans from Newark, the Brick City Development Corporation and the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, Mr. Beit said.
Other residents said that including only charter schools in Teachers Village reinforced the image of a segregated community downtown.
“Rather than investing in new charter schools, why not invest in real change for schools that have been serving Newark’s youth for decades?” asked Kathryn Strom, a member of the New Jersey Teacher Activist Group.
Mr. Beit said that when Teachers Village was in the planning stages, Newark’s school district was consolidating, but that he would be happy to lease to any tenant school, whether public, private or charter.
Mr. Beit’s partner, Mr. Berggruen, said that unlike other developers in Newark over the years, who have started projects that foundered before completion, Mr. Berggruen intended to see the revival of Newark’s downtown through the long haul.
“As much as Newark in the last few decades has really suffered, it was historically, 50 years ago or more, a great success,” Mr. Berggruen said. “That means it’s a city that can be rebuilt, but you have to start with baby steps.”
I would suggest those who are against charter schools watch the film “Waiting for Superman.” It is idiotic to blame charter schools for the failure of the public school system. It is proven that charter schools work. They are not held hostage by the self-serving interests of unions. As a result, they are able to focus on education.
JH, Waiting for Superman has been demonstrated to be filled with errors and distortions. Many accounts of the problems with the film were written right after the film appeared.
WOW! Let me get this straight. Charter schools are successful so we want to get rid of them? No wonder our school system is so effed up! If a charter school is successful maybe the public schools should take some notes and be willing to try a different approach. DSEA is the reason our public schools have no shot!
Too many charter supporters watched Waiting for Superman and ended their research right there, as soon as they heard what they wanted to hear. I hope that is not the method of inquiry taught in charter schools.
“Charter schools are successful so we want to get rid of them?”
First of all, nobody said that. The critics are just saying to slow down and bring the countywide charter expansion under some kind of integrated planning process and public approval.
Secondly, charter schools are NOT successful for the students whose schools decline or close on account of the “successful” charters.
For those of you who support charters because you think you are striking a blow against unions, I’ve got news for you: Once you charterize enough schools, the charter teachers will organize, as they well should.
I love my regular old public HS and middle school. This is a pretty unscientific observation, but where charter schools have been successful (Wilmington Charter for example) it seems a phony kind of success built on being able to skim the cream off the top of other high schools.
What does this skimming do to the ecology of other local schools, except make them seem worse by comparison?
Charter schools are successful so we want to get rid of them?
Except they aren’t.
If we’re going to discuss charter schools let’s deal with actual results. Most charters are the same or worse, in terms of academic gains, than traditional public schools.
TITLE 14
Education
Free Public Schools
CHAPTER 5. CHARTER SCHOOLS
§ 501. Legislative intent.
The purpose of this chapter is to create an alternative to traditional public schools operated by school districts and improve public education overall by establishing a system of independent “charter” schools throughout the State.
To that end, this chapter offers members of the community a charter to organize and run independent public schools, free of most state and school district rules and regulations governing public education, as long as they meet the requirements of this chapter, and particularly the obligation to meet measurable standards of student performance. Schools established under this chapter shall be known as “charter schools.”
This chapter is intended to improve student learning; encourage the use of different and innovative or proven school environments and teaching and learning methods; provide parents and students with measures of improved school and student performance and greater opportunities in choosing public schools within and outside their school districts; and to provide for a well-educated community.
There shall be no limit to the number of charter schools that may be established in the State; provided, however, that no more than 5 such schools may be established to operate in the 1996-1997 school year, and that no more than 5 additional charter schools may be established to operate in the 1997-1998 school year, and that no more than 5 additional charter schools may be established to operate in the 1998-1999 school years. If for any school year more charters are awarded than are permitted to operate by this section, the Department of Education shall hold a lottery to decide which charters are permitted to operate in such school year and charter applicants who lose such lottery shall be given a right of refusal for a charter for the subsequent school year.
Most charter schools in Delaware have a lottery, there is no skimming done. I am a proud parent of a charter child and for that I am thankful every day.
Yes they have lotteries but they are not run correctly. There is no transperency and students are admitted under the table based on what they can offer the school constantly. The public is very naive to the crap they are fed by charters. Check into the lottery at some of these schools. All it takes is a little common sense and surface investigation.
I’m not following your point, Charter Mom.
And skimming can be done in a variety of ways – placement tests, lack of reduced or free lunch program, cost of uniforms, where transportation is provided, etc. All of these things contribute to who applies to the school. The skimming occurs before the lottery.
“Most charter schools in Delaware have a lottery, there is no skimming done. ”
A lottery is not a safe harbor against exclusionary practices. In fact a lottery is itself a form of skimming. Lotteries introduce a self-selection bias by selecting only those students whose families apply and enter the lottery.
If you really want to be non-exclusionary, then issue every eligible student a lottery number, like a draft, and then send them an invitation. And then provide the invite lists to social service agencies so they can follow up with a visit to help parents understand the decision, and remove any further obstacles such as financial or transportation.
“For local control and self-determination for our own school systems. If this is not important to you then we believe in different political systems.”
Settle down there, fella. My point was there is nothing in the law to allow for such a vote.
“We just had a referendum on whether to build a new public school. Technically the referendum was whether to authorize the spending for the new school. But really, it was a public vote on whether to open a new 650-seat elementary school.”
They needed your approval because it must be funded by new taxes.
“But charter schools, by not receiving capital spending, are exempt from a public vote on whether the community wants to open a new school or not. The decision is made by corporate sponsors and boards of appointed officials.”
As it should be. The taxpayers are not putting up the money, so I don’t see why they shouldn’t get veto power over the issue.
“To bypass a public vote on a new public school, all it takes is money. This is the loophole in the charter school law that our corporations and our elite citizens have finally ripped wide open and are now streaming through.”
This is the sort of analysis one provides when one’s preferred course of action isn’t being followed. The failure to fund charter capital expenses has been seen as an enormous impediment to opening charter schools. Interesting that you now think it’s not a bug but a feature.
“Chuck Baldwin warned us about the attitude of Delaware’s elite. They don’t have enough places to run and hide from the unwashed masses, so they are building some more.”
I think you, or Mr. Baldwin, are confusing the elite with what I would call “Delaware’s middle class.” The elite already have their kids in private schools, where they pay roughly 100 times as much as the tax increase for a referendum.
“The new corporate-sponsored mega-charters will do for public schools what Walmart does for independent stores.”
Really? There are 110,000 public school students in Delaware. Are you engaging in hyperbole or innumeracy?
“My point was there is nothing in the law to allow for such a vote. ”
That was my point too, so we agree there. And that is why I think the law should be reformed.
“The taxpayers are not putting up the money… ”
Now who’s being naive, Kaye?
“onfusing the elite with what I would call “Delaware’s middle class.” ”
Look at the corporate sponsors for CSW. I always assumed they built CSW as a semi-private enclave not for their highest-income officers, but for their middle managers as a recruitment and retention incentive. People who are well-off enough, but maybe don’t really want to pay for private school. Now it appears BofA is going down that path too. It is no coincidence their charter school announcement was combined with their jobs announcement, just as CSW has become Chuck-full.
“For local control and self-determination for our own school systems. If this is not important to you then we believe in different political systems.”
Tell it to the kids and homeowners in Wilmington. They have little control or self-determination over what schools exist there and few in the system seem at all concerned about fixing this.
That’s just it, Cassandra. Local control doesn’t include the community which houses these charters. Communities aren’t being included in the decisions to open schools in their neighborhoods. Instead we are presented with a done deal. And the real problem isn’t that I, and others, don’t like charters, it’s that by the time the community finds out a charter’s moving in the deal is done.
There is more input solicited when a liquor store wants to open in a community then when a charter decides to move in.
In response to Mike O.
“A lottery is not a safe harbor against exclusionary practices. In fact a lottery is itself a form of skimming. Lotteries introduce a self-selection bias by selecting only those students whose families apply and enter the lottery.
If you really want to be non-exclusionary, then issue every eligible student a lottery number, like a draft, and then send them an invitation. And then provide the invite lists to social service agencies so they can follow up with a visit to help parents understand the decision, and remove any further obstacles such as financial or transportation.”
Are you kidding me? When will people take responsibility for themselves? The government, the schools, the employer… it is always someone else’s job to get people what they need. Why shouldn’t the parent have to apply to express interest? Why should the school incur the cost to develop your “charter draft” only to find have a majority decline or ignore the information.
Why is it such an injustice that someone would need to express an interest and provide the proper information to be included? Why is it so evil to have a geographical boundary? What happened to good old american iniative and ambition?
Enough with the conspiracy theories already regarding the lotteries… skimming? exclusionary practices? please, its called a lottery for a reason – an activity or endeavour the success of which is regarded as a matter of fate or luck (as defined by Collins English Dictionary)… good old fashioned luck just like what the 81 year old lady in RI had when she hit the Powerball – speaking of which they didnt just hand out tickets to everyone for that lottery, that lottery relies on people expressing an interest and inserting themselves into the applicant pool from which a winner will be selected. Hmmm, novel concept isnt it…
I’m a product of Delaware public schools, and I think the mock outrage over the influx of charter schools is hilarious, convenient and self-serving. Public school flight in Delaware has been occuring for well over 30 years via the large number of parents who decided to put their kids in private schools rather than subject them to a substandard education. 30 years ago people claimed the flight of talented kids and their rich/middle class parents would do irreparable harm to Delaware public schools and their students, but those fears were overblown the same as they are now with charter schools. Disadvantaged kids, like myself, whose parents couldn’t afford to send them to private school but who crave education will still take college prep/Honors/AP courses in Delaware public schools the same way I did. Those who don’t crave an education won’t. No amount of charter school bashing changes that reality. The only difference between what began 30 years ago and now is the kids that leave for charter schools take their funding with them and strengthen a new model that is a threat to the DSEA. That’s what this is really about.
I may throw around “racism” cavalierly from time time… But I gotta be honest. When I read a comment like that I think that it is being written by a racist. Sorry if I am wrong, it is the impression the guy is making though.
Whose comment?
the truth is that we should not have charter schools as they are essentially publically funded private schools…and the truth is that we have charter schools because people are not satisfied with our public schools
Like I said, sorry if it isn’t the case, but your comment sounds like something a racist would write. The whole “flight” thing directly links your comments to the people who couldn’t stand the idea of black kids from Wilmington going to thier white suburban schools.
“When will people take responsibility for themselves?”
At least not until they are 18.
I see the idea of a nonexclusionary draft really gets under your skin.
@Jason – comments like yours make it impossible to have any productive debates. How you inferred “people who couldn’t stand the idea of black kids from Wilmington going to their white suburban schools” from one word, “flight”, in my entire post is beyond understanding. The whole point of my post was to state that Delaware public schools have been in bad shape for a while, but people didn’t just start bailing on them and going to charter schools. It was happening long before the first charter school was created in Delaware. I accept your apology for being wrong (: 7 ), but don’t be so quick to find racism where there is none. Many who rail against NCS specifically and charter schools in general should do the same.
Apology acceptance accepted. Just so you know, the flight that you mention is typically called “white flight” for a reason. And that’s all I’m saying about that.
@Mike O – even if NCS complied with all of your unreasonable expectations regarding their PUBLIC lottery, you would still find a problem with it because you want to find a problem. There’s a reason the waiting list for NCS is over 2,000 kids long: people know and understand the application process. You honestly believe something like “reduced lunch” is going to prevent someone from applying to a Blue Ribbon Award winning school? Also, you honestly believe a parent interested in the school is not going to inquire about the availability of assistance if they need it the same way they would at any other public school? (FYI, assistance is available to all who need it). The demographic of applicants is a function of the five mile radius no different than any other charter school that would be located in center city Wilmington. Let me know when you’ve dreamed up another made up reason of how NCS intentionally excludes low-income/disadvantaged kids.
You honestly believe something like “reduced lunch” is going to prevent someone from applying to a Blue Ribbon Award winning school?
Yes. If you disagree, then feel free to provide data.
The demographic of applicants is a function of the five mile radius
Both at Kilroy’s and this site numbers have been provided (by many commenters) to dispute this claim. Please provide your data to counter this claim.
You want a “productive debate?” Bring it. Because I’m done with emotional arguments. I’m done with the cries of everybody here hates charter schools.
@pandora – you don’t need data to prove water is wet. A parent serious about their child’s education will apply to NCS or any other charter school they believe will provide a quality education. Excuses like “NCS’s lottery is rigged” and “NCS doesn’t have a cafeteria to discourage low income families from applying” don’t change that reality. Instead of hiding behind data that can be spun and interpreted in multiple ways, help us understand why it would make sense that families serious about education wouldn’t apply to any public school because of a lack of reduced lunch. That’s like saying “No, I’ll pass on the chance of winning the POWERBALL because I can’t afford to pay the taxes on the winnings if I win”. You don’t really want a productive debate because you’re looking for somebody to blame instead of focusing on a solution.
No data? No facts? Just more emotion. Typical.
Okay. We get it. You want what you want and if others get hurt, too bad. You deserve to do whatever you want because you’re an oh so awesome parent… unlike those deadbeats who refuse (yes, refuse, not can’t) to love and want the best for their children.
And you keep talking about a productive debate. I really don’t think those words mean what you think they mean. What do you want to debate? That you’re an awesome parent, or that you’re the most awesome parent?
The only data I need are NCS’s state ranking in DSTP/DCAP and national ranking in reading. I place more reliance on those stats than “impact” numbers showing the percentage of low income kids increasing in CSD schools because of NCS. I guess low income kids didn’t go to school prior to the formation of NCS, right? That’s the only way the percentage of these kids could increase at other CSD schools DUE to NCS, since none of these kids are allowed to go to NCS and therefore are forced to stay at these other CSD schools, right? Well, that and magic : 7 ). Seriously, make a credible argument that doesn’t involve bogus stats and I’m glad to debate. What is not up for debate is that the Delaware public school system is responsible for creating this issue, so that is where you need to direct your anger and energy.
DSTP testing? so NOW you trust the gumment?
Patriot:
Why are NCS’s standardized testing rankings so high?
I’d say the school’s 15% low-income rate and 5% special education rate has more to do with that than a group of “magical” teachers working ELA wonders!
Your tests scores are related to who you let in your school.
I guess low income kids didn’t go to school prior to the formation of NCS, right? That’s the only way the percentage of these kids could increase DUE to NCS. Well, that and magic.
Is this a serious statement? Because this statement is stunningly, mathematically incorrect.
My point is data can be interpreted in many ways, not just they way pandora and others are interpreting the data. You have to apply some common sense to the data as well. Before I just assumed NCS’s lack of a cafeteria unfairly excluded certain families from applying, I would ask some of the target audience if that were true. If they responded “yes”, I would then ask whether or not they inquired about assistance and inform them that assistance is in fact avaialble. To me that makes a lot more sense than concluding the school wants to exclude a certain group because the percentage of blacks/Latinos at NCS are lower than neighboring CSD schools. How would people feel if we assumed the NBA discriminated against people of Asian decent because the league is .4% (that’s .004) Asian and Jeremy Lin is the first Asian-American athlete to do well in the NBA? Most reasonable people would ask questions to corroborate their data. That’s all I’m saying.
Perhaps Patriots charter-educated kids can explain why, mathematically, that is possible and probable.
@pandora – touche, the total numbers may not have changed but the proportion would increase due to a lower number of kids overall in the school. But the numbers don’t in and of themselves mean NCS discourages low income families from applying/attending the school. There could be any number of other reasons why people might not attend the school, so jumping to “no cafeteria” and “uniforms” as the default reasons doesn’t make sense. Should the school do some digging to understand why their numbers are lacking? Absolutely, but that’s very different then saying they are intentionally trying to exclude a group from attending the school.
@liberalgeek – my charter-educated kids teach me new things everyday (not that hard to do : 7 ), and I’m proud that they are in a position to do so.
Why should anyone need financial assistance to attend a public school?
and:
I think that says it all. This is what the charter law has turned us into. In the 1970s this same attitude was painfully and (as it turns out temporarily) corrected with forced busing. What harsh remedy will we need to purge it now?
I do understand the countywide megacharter expansion will be supported politically up to a tipping point, when charters will have absorbed all the above-average students and left the rest in the dumping ground schools. Then I think charters will be seen in a different light.
@Mike Matthews – Okay… sounds like you’re assuming that non-low income people by definition are all smart and therefore will do well at NCS. That aside, why is there such low attrition in the school? Why was NCS voted “Best Place to Work” last year? Why are people from around the world visiting this school to understand the “secret sauce”? Your 15% low income stat doesn’t explain any of that, and it’s extremely disrespectful to that group.
Oh for crying out loud! No one, NO ONE!, has said that NCS isn’t a good school. Stop pretending otherwise – altho, I get that’s what you want to talk about. That’s your only point.
How about you admitting you don’t understand the effects of poverty?
How about we discuss how poverty effects test scores?
Or… how about we discuss moving the awesome charter experiment into the real world with all kids – ya know, share the secret of your secret sauce. That was the point of charters. They were designed to be laboratories. If we can’t move this experiment out of a lab, then it’s a failed experiment.
I came from poverty so I understand the effects of poverty on education. I also understand that people have choices, and some choose not to exercise that choice for reasons other than “lack of reduced lunch” and “uniform cost”. True story: a friend recently won the NCS lottery but decided against putting their kid at NCS because they heard the “school was too hard and gave the kids too much homework”. Is this NCS’s fault too? Agreed moving NCS best practices to other schools.
I’ve heard that story three different times from three different NCS supporters. It’s turning into an urban legend.
Maybe we all have the same friend (: 7 ) or maybe there is something to the rep of the school discouraging some from going there. Thanks for the exchange, and please keep the dialogue going. I’m from Wilmington and I actually do care about improving the quality of education in the state.
OK, let’s try to get back to the root of the conversation instead of the back-and-forth. What are the main issues? It sound like they’re as follows:
– 5-mile radius vs. taking from the entire Christina district
– free and reduced lunches
– transportation
– lower-income families don’t know about it
Even as someone who supports NCS, I can acknowledge that there’s always room for improvement and more inclusiveness. Has anyone considered pushing for these changes specifically, or targeting 2-3 of them?
If you take from a bigger pool, reach out to low-income communities and offer lunches, that would address a lot of the access concerns being raised here, and presumably would change some of the percentages people are also concerned about.
Just a couple thoughts.
Are you following this on twitter, Straight Scoop? #ncsapp
Kilroy has live-blogged most of it.
I was talking with Greg Meece last summer, long before anyone was raising the idea that not offering free/reduced-price lunches was some sort of exclusionary policy. Here’s what he said, more or less, and you can take it for what it’s worth:
1. Greg came up through the Catholic school system, where, in most cases, the kids eat their lunch at their desks in the classroom.
Coming from that background, he thinks it’s easier to maintain order with a group of 25 kids in a classroom than a couple hundred in a cafeteria.
2. Cafeterias are expensive. They’re big rooms, you need a couple of refrigerators, ovens, food-serving equipment. If you’re on a limited construction/facilities budget (remember, charters don’t get construction bucks from the state or via local tax referendum), not having a cafeteria either cuts your construction costs or lets you put another classroom or two into your building.
3. Building on the second point, once you’ve got a cafeteria, you’ve got to pay a couple of people to work there every day. Instead of hiring three cafeteria workers, maybe you can get an experienced teacher. If you’re trying to get the most bang for your educational buck, do you want to spend it on a science teacher or a food-service worker?
One of the alleged benefits of the charter system is that they don’t have to follow the state’s rigid unit count system of financing. (And one of the downsides is that the reimbursements they get from the districts for educating their students are paid at the previous year’s per pupil costs.) OK, so they’ve got the flexibility to put their money into the classroom rather than into the cafeteria, and since he’s essentially has to pay 2012 prices while he’s earning 2011 income, NCS made the decision to focus on food for the mind rather than food for the belly.
I think a high school needs a cafeteria. I don’t think the grade-school lunch monitor routine works with 16-year-olds. But if NCS wants to use the grade-school lunch system in the high school, they’re allowed to make that call.
I understand his logic. I don’t have to agree with any or all of it.
thanks for reporting on Meece’s arguments.
there is one major flaw. the DE charter law and regulations REQUIRE free/reduced lunches to eligible students, following applicable state and federal school lunch rules. This is not a ‘you would do us a favor if you had a cafeteria,’ it is a requirement.
does it take $$ that otherwise could go to teachers/classrooms. Yes. It is the law.
It is the law, because the Dept of Education recognized that gutting some of the rules of public schools makes sense for charters, school lunches is inviolate. without mandated school lunch programs, a hypothetical school (not NCS of course) could discourage low income students from applying, risking a path to ‘separate but unequal.’ again, certainly not in NCS’ case.
but regardless of whether this path has been followed by NCS, the DE law and regulations mandate a school lunch program, and NCS has failed to meet this requirement.
@PBaumbach–
Thank you for pointing out the requirements of the DE charter law. I recall being sent home from elementary school because our school’s boiler was malfunctioning. We weren’t sent home because the school had no heat. We were sent home because the cafeteria had no hot water & couldn’t comply w/ free/reduced-price lunch program requirements.
That was 30+ years ago.
Do these standards (or similar standards) apply to charter schools?
“As it should be. The taxpayers are not putting up the money, so I don’t see why they shouldn’t get veto power over the issue.”
There’s a host of supporting costs that taxpayers fund for charters: regulatory costs, public amenities, etc. There is also the stake and potential future costs that taxpayers have in the creation of the economic and social outcomes that will eventuate from various educational practices.
“The elite already have their kids in private schools, where they pay roughly 100 times as much as the tax increase for a referendum.”
I’d love to see some stats on this, but my hunch is that the elites are by and large enthusiastic supporters of school “choice” for the “other kids” given its potential to hold down (if not decrease) property and state taxes. Not many studies (none that I’ve seen) show that the elites are guided by socially responsible beliefs and instincts for others outside their ken. Quite the opposite.
“NCS made the decision to focus on food for the mind rather than food for the belly.”
A nice tidy distinction for those kids whose parents can afford to enjoy the distinction. Unfortunately, however, those kids whose parents cannot afford to enjoy the distinction probably find it difficult to learn fraught with growling hungry stomachs. I guess that would provide an incentive to poor parents to keep their kids in public school and not send them to charter schools. And, probably not coincidentally, charter schools count on that.
“there is one major flaw. the DE charter law and regulations REQUIRE free/reduced lunches to eligible students, following applicable state and federal school lunch rules.”
Can you point me to the exact citation at the state or federal level that require lunches offered? I just read the charter law and didn’t see any reference to this.
“Jackson said the implementation of the NCS expansion plan includes the addition of a cafeteria and a free-and-reduced-lunch program. The residency requirement is also up for discussion, she said.”
Sounds like there’s room for some common ground. Here’s hoping both sides can reach a detente.
Title 14 of Delaware administrative code, section 275 Charter Schools, section 4.5.2 and 4.5.2.5 includes the requirements for free/reduced lunches for eligible students, and reference to meeting the state and federal rules for such lunches (such as nutritional requirements)
Note that the Jackson quote refers to the IMPLEMENTATION. This is an admission that their application FAILS to meet this requirement.
IF IT DON’T FIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT
The NCS application failed to meet the charter school application requirements, and should be denied.
Note further that meeting the requirement for the high school leaves the lower and middle school out of compliance. As this is for a single charter school, a cafeteria for the third building alone also fails to meet the charter school requirements, unless they are going to transport the hundreds of students from the lower schools to the high schools cafeteria.
by the way, the Regulation 275 that I quote is the same regulation that the applicant attests to understand and follow, in their application.
You can see it at http://regulations.delaware.gov/AdminCode/title14/200/275.pdf
It occured to me at the meeting last night to ask “how many kids who won the lottery have been removed from NCS due to behavioral problems?”
What is the percentage of lottery admissions vs. kids removed for lack of Decorum? A public school district can’t toss kids out. We get the NCS cast-offs, right?
There were several really odious speakers last night – two being official representatives of NCS.
One derided the validity of the CSD impact study and crowed how Jea Street had stood up at the CSD’s Monday night meeting demanding CSD “not speak for ‘his kids’ – leave the City of Wilmington out of it – this is Newark’s fight”.
Well, ‘Jea’s kids’ are the ones who get themselves into trouble in CSD schools for ‘lack of decorum’. His fight is usually about the heavy hand of administrators and how these troubled children end up in extrememly subpar alternative school environments.
From what I heard, recently John Kowalko offered to hand over the GHS building to Greg Meece as long as he took all of the Glasgow kids too and Meece sneared ‘are you kidding me!’.
Charters were allowed to take public money as incubators experimenting with education modeling – best practice. What worked was supposed to be brought into the district schools. Charters aren’t supposed to supplant district schools.
All this discussion about whether NCS is in compliance with state law and DOE Charter School regulations leads us to another issue: how DOE approves new charters and monitors them after they open.
Last year, independent evaluators from the National Association of Charter School Authorizers reviewed DOE’s standards and practices. In most instances, the state’s standards and practices received the two lowest ratings, “undeveloped” and “minimally developed.” Here’s a link to the full report:
http://www.delawarefirst.org/13307-national-association-charter-school-authorizers-evaluation-delaware-charter-system/
DOE did receive a grant to revise its standards and procedures, and that work is supposed to be completed mid-year.
Meanwhile, however, one has to wonder why DOE is continuing to process applications for new charters under a set of standards that national experts consider so gravely flawed.
“The elite already have their kids in private schools, where they pay roughly 100 times as much as the tax increase for a referendum.”
The elite I know hate to spend money and work over time to figure a way to get the general public tax dollar involved. Private gain – social pain is the lay of eliteland.
Elite’s kids go to CSW. Markell, Carper to name two.
1996, speaking about CSW:
Nancy is on point as usual. Charter school flight is different from private school flight in the funding issue. With charters schools with lottery and admission tests, taxpayers are funding an option which is not open to them once decisions have been made. In the case of private schools, one still has the option of public schools for whatever reason. Yes, its really staggering the number of politician’s kids in these charter schools. Makes you wonder, which came first, the charter school backers or the politician desires for their children.
We also need to be watchful on the sibling issue. The charter school law/regulation permits a sibling preference in the lottery, however it is pretty clear that the writers of the law/regulations did not forsee a K-12 charter school system.
Being ‘lucky’ to have any of your children get a spot enabling all of your children (and there are many NCS families with more than 2 kids) having 13 years of education, and locking out area families from being so ‘lucky’ is a consequence, I would argue an unintended one.
For charter schools with a wide range of grades offered, sibling preference should only be permitted within a range, perhaps K-4, 5-8, and 9-12. This requires one (of many) improvement to the rules/regulations to DE charter schools.
So…the logic is “increase the number of low-income/minorities at NCS and watch their precious scores come tumbling down”. Did I get that right? What happens when NCS’s numbers improve in these groups and NCS test scores remain largely unchanged? What will your excuse be then?
Here are some suggestions: Use Meece as a consultant, but stop expecting him to rescue every public school in CSD. If someone’s drowning they have to help the person attempting to save them swim to safety or they both will drown. If problem kids can’t be thrown out of schools due to existing state laws, lobby your state rep to enact legislation to change the law. To paraphase what someone posted on Kilroy’s Blog, throw your support behind converting more public schools to the NCS model instead of defending a flawed district/model. Doesn’t this make a lot more sense than attempting to tear down a school that actually got it right?
Charters are entitled to public dollars only as long as we can all learn and benefit from their modeling for success. But how can there be a general public value in these experimental environments in school scores that are absent the most challenging populations?
The precious scores come tumbling down indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DL admin – I have a comment in moderation – FYI
http://www.communities4educationde.org/Home.html
Communities 4 Education is a group of concerned parents and community members who advocate for equal public education for all Delaware Students.
CURRENT COMMUNITY ISSUE:
The proposed expansion of the Newark Charter School to include a high school challenges our ideals that public education should be equal and equitable for all students.
PLEASE ACT NOW to STOP this proposed expansion! Send a letter or email to state leaders. Tell them that you oppose the Newark Charter expansion! Attend the March 7 meeting and voice your concerns!
Sign the Online Petition!
SEND AN EMAIL NOW!
Tell the State Board of Education, Secretary Lowery and Governor Markell that you oppose the expansion of the Newark Charter School! Call for an immediate moratorium on charter schools!
tgray@doe.k12.de.us; Jorge.melendez@pnc.com; gcoverdale@DOE.K12.DE.US; pheffernan@DOE.K12.DE.US; barbararutt@yahoo.com; imjwilson@comcast.net; whittakt@udel.edu; governor.markell@state.de.us; llowery@doe.k12.de.us
CIRCULATE A PETITION IN YOUR COMMUNITY!
Download this petition to circulate in your community and fax it to John Carwell by March 7 at fax: (302) 739-4483
Petition to Stop Expansion of Newark Charter School10 reasons to oppose the Newark Charter High School.
Click to Read the full text: Oppose Newark Charter High School
1. We will be creating 2 separate unequal Newark school systems: One with a large majority of the haves and one with a large majority of the have nots (socio economic, parental support, and traditional academic abilities). Creating separate and unequal schools within one community does not encourage strong community. It leads to significant re-segregation and tension within the community.
2. What populations NEED our attention?…not the ones that NCS serves! Let’s look at the research before IMPACTING a community! Studies show that Charters are not proving effective for the exact population that NCS serves. The first large-scale, longitudinal study of Charter Schools (16 states & 4500 Charter School) showed that “Students not in poverty and students who are not English language learners do notably worse than the same students who remain in the traditional public school system.”
3. Who really has a choice? Will building a Newark Charter high school promote choice for all students? What about a choice for City of Wilmington students? There is significant social and geographical inequity in creating another “public” or tax payer funded high school in Newark when Wilmington does not have one. How long will we tolerate DOE’s avoidance of this issue! Will we allow Newark Charter to build a new million dollar building for Newark students who already have neighborhood schools?
4. How will we answer to Race to the Top, as we allow valuable state resources to go to primarily white, middle-class students, when state-wide we are failing every other group. Any expansion or creation of new schools should be for the students who are the most in need. New resources are not needed to address the needs of high performing students.
5. Creating a Newark Charter High school will greatly impact many school communities:Newark High school has made great strides in the past few years. Students are graduating and being accepted to great post-secondary colleges and opportunities.Glasgow High School has embarked on significant Race to the Top efforts to transform and improve its quality of education. NCS will not only take students from Glasgow, but the Newark High waiting list is full of Glasgow high students. NCS will create a student shift robbing Glasgow of its top performing students and jeopardizing Race to the Top efforts.
6. Negative impact on property value and jobs: Don’t have a child in school…Do you think this doesn’t affect you? Think again. Studies show that as average test scores in traditional public schools decrease, so do property values.
7. Newark, Glasgow and Christiana High are where great teachers are needed most: Study after study shows that the teacher is the most important factor to student learning.
8. Exclusionary Admission Policies: most of the “successful” charter schools in Delaware arre the ones with either explicit or implicit selection criteria. This creates a student body who are the most likely to succeed. NCS has implicit criteria that has created a student body that is not representative of the population that it is intended to serve.
9. Charter schools will continue to steal finite resources (sometimes away from those with greater need).
10. We expect our state leaders to do what is best for ALL students! It is expected that someone in government is charged with caring about the bigger picture – the success of all students in their education, with maybe even a special focus on children and families who are least able to advocate for themselves.
Check out how Newark Charter Middle School impacted Shue Medill Middle School test scores and demographics and how current demographic data varies between Newark Charter and Christina School District
Charter Impact Data
Demographic Differences
@Nancy – encouraging more low-income/minorities to apply to NCS and supporting NCS expansion are two separate things, wouldn’t you agree? They also are not mutually exclusive, so why can’t we do both? Most agree that NCS is a fine school and have largely “gotten it right”, so why not support expanding the reach of a school like this while at the same time encouraging more of the “most challenging populations” to apply? Be forewarned. NCS has a phased-based learning approach, so the tumbling test scores some are expecting may not happen.
“Elite’s kids go to CSW. Markell, Carper to name two.”
Don’t know about Carper, but Markell’s daughter was in Tower Hill until 9th grade. I’m pretty sure the optics of the governor sending his kid to private school played a big part.
Other than that, don’t kid yourself. There are benefits to sending a kid to CSW, but if by “elite” you mean the corporate management class, you’ll find far more of them in private schools that any sort of public one, charters included.
“But how can there be a general public value in these experimental environments in school scores that are absent the most challenging populations?”
Believe it or not, the “most challenging populations” aren’t the only students in schools.
NOw let’s have the anti-charter people make a concession to reality: It costs a lot more per pupil to take care of “the most challenging populations.” You want to talk about fairness, but won’t acknowledge the basic unfairness of the reality on the ground: EVERY taxpayer pays extra for those students, even people who have no children at all and even though relatively few students need the services.
Fairness, in short, has a broader definition that the one being used here, and ultimately is not a winning argument unless you use only the definition being used here.
I have been writing extensively about the cost of poverty on education. I have pointed out, again and again, how expensive high poverty schools are – and how inequitable the funding is.
And if your point is that it isn’t fair for taxpayers to pay extra for the neediest kids because they don’t have kids or their kids don’t need certain services then I find your definition of public education limiting. My children will leave the education system soon. That won’t change my belief in, and support of, an educated society.
If you look at Red Clay, Christina, Colonial and Brandywine which one of these has a traditional public school model worth duplicating? Why is that? (Hint: It has to do with bucking the neighborhood school’s law, responsible use of choice, and charters.)
Interesting finds in the fine print on the NCS application form:
Oh….. my…..
“School records? Evaluating the application???” I thought it was a straight-up lottery!
Hopefully the access to the records happens only AFTER the student’s name is drawn from the lottery bin… right?
and
Or I suppose, if it is the right type of student, the parent may be called and invited to correct the application.
Comment by Mike O. on 7 March 2012 at 10:47 am:
If you really want to be non-exclusionary, then issue every eligible student a lottery number, like a draft, and then send them an invitation. And then provide the invite lists to social service agencies so they can follow up with a visit to help parents understand the decision, and remove any further obstacles such as financial or transportation
Sure this is feasible…and also how about we make a law that says any business that has a job offering must invite the unemployed to apply…I mean really, you expect people to take responsibility and do something for themselves, in this case their child’s education… how unfair! But then again, even those collecting unemployment do have to fill out a form, right?
Mike,
Really… have you ever attended the lottery?
Signing this form authorizes Newark Charter School to access this student’s school records for purposes of evaluating this application.
Oh….. my…..
“School records? Evaluating the application???” I thought it was a straight-up lottery!
Hopefully the access to the records happens only AFTER the student’s name is drawn from the lottery bin… right?
and
Any incomplete or inaccurate applications may be rejected for enrollment consideration.
Or I suppose, if it is the right type of student, the parent may be called and invited to correct the application.
I have gone through the application process and attended the lottery. When you apply, you promply receive a letter indicating that your application has been received. If you’re missing something, they let you know and provide time for you to provide any missing info. When they do the lottery, they read EVERY name going into the “bin.” Then, they read every name indicating the number along the way until every name is pulled out. They do not “skim” as so many try to imply with no facts to back up their claims. Seriously, Mike go check it out next year, so you know what you’re talking about.
Thank you Barbara. You are the first person who has even attempted to clarify this. I agree that if that’s the way the lottery works, that provides some controls over pre-lottery monkey business.
I’ll be looking for that procedure to be written up and added to the procedure that NCS currently provides, which contains none of that info. I’m sure you can understand how an undocumented procedure can be seen as questionable where it concerns public trust.
I have had no reason to attend the NCS lottery so for facts, I am relying on the information provided by NCS itself. You are right – perhaps I should go and observe next time.
Still, if school records aren’t a factor in getting your name put into the bin, then NCS won’t mind taking that authorization line off the application, right?