Q: What is it that you like about organized labor?
A: Organized labor is a champion of civil rights, and of our civil liberties. Labor stands for economic justice, a robust middle class and (because of lackluster performance by the Democratic Party) it is the only real check on the rapacious greed of twentieth century capitalism right now. What’s not to like about a movement with such high aspirations?
Has labor every fallen into corruption and sloth from time to time? Of course it has, bad leaders come and go. You do your best to get rid of them and keep the movement looking forward. The SEIU is doing that just now. They have taken up the mantle of leadership and have kept the movement looking toward the horizon.
The Wealth Inequality gap has increased as Organized Labor Membership has declined since the 1980s. The gains that were made by organized labor post great depression helped to catapult millions of Americans into the middle-class. Labor always gets a bad name “corrupt”. What about Wallstreet’s bailout, CEOs making over 300x the average workers’ wages or Corporations off shoring their profits to avoid paying capital gains tax! All of these “legal” laws were lobbied by corporations and these bills were put in by legislatures. Let’s refocus on the core issues at hand-our erroding Democracy.
Norinda. There is something bigger. In the past, there was a spark in the middle class; they’d say, this is not right; I deserve better than this so I will fight for it. Today, the answer is: oh well, sucks, but there is nothing I can do about it.
Truth in both cases: there is a lot they can do about it.
What stupidity. Wages and income grow with a growing economy not more government and more unions. The public unions are parasites and private unions are going away because the leaders of unions are MORE GREEDY than any corporate type.
The middle class? Is a $50 k a year plumber in Nebraska middle class or is a $100k paralegal in Manhattan middle class? America does not have classes, we have individuals who achieve or fail based on what they produce and he value of their talents not crooked unions.
It’s funny because there are plenty of problems with organized labor. A beautiful illustration of these in the abstract is Ambrose Bierce’s 1910 essay “Ashes of the Beacon.” Or for a more recent example, Detroit, MI, USA. But bitching about greedy unions seems like focusing on the wrong end of the problem. If we want to argue the issues that greed and over-reach create in our political economy, it seems almost comical to focus your ire on unions, doesn’t it?
And if you truly believe that people simply succeed or fail solely on their own productivity and nothing else you are so incredibly naive that there’s no use in discussing the topic. It’s the myth on a high school “future Republicans’ club. Simplified, disproven horseshit.
Oh and to answer the question about what is admirable about organized labor… What I personally think is the best characteristic… they fight the people with the real power and money. They aren’t always right. It’s difficult to fire a shit teacher, for example. But generally they protect the people that do the work. That’s good.
The biggest problem is the difference between public and private sector unions. In the private sector, unions have to be the partners with businesses, because if their demands are so out-of-line that the businesses cannot compete and make a profit, the companies go out of business and the union members lose their jobs.
But in the public sector, that discipline of the marketplace does not exist: the government (supposedly) can’t go out of business. Too many government leaders simply knuckled under, and rather than going out of business, the governments simply raised taxes and borrowed money. Eventually, you wind up with Detroit.
So, what do you have? You have public sector unions getting higher wages for their employees than the taxpayers who have to support them with their taxes. Teachers in Philadelphia start at $46K, and quickly move to more than $50K; that’s a lot more than most Philadelphians earn in a year, all for ten months of work a year.
Naturally, the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers says that the state should kick in more money, but I have a hard time seeing how the poor people of my rural county can be expected to pony up more money to give to Philly teachers who make so much more than they do.
The “Teachers Work Only Ten Months a Year” argument! I haven’t hear that one in years. And apparently they are overpaid at $50,000 per annum. Talk about barely scratching the surface of an issue! You haven’t even moved enough earth to bury an ant. This conversation, like way too many here lately, is utterly pointless because the only comments are recycled rubbish. Do you know what the educational/training requirements are for a middle school math teacher in Philadelphia? I do. Do you know how they differ from say Delaware or Maryland? I do. Challenge yourself. Go read something and get back to me.
In the private sector, unions have to be the partners with businesses, because if their demands are so out-of-line that the businesses cannot compete and make a profit, the companies go out of business and the union members lose their jobs.
This isn’t true. If union demands are too onerous, those businesses either 1) relocate to places where unions have no sway or, 2) those businesses stop bidding on work that require union labor, or 3) they ratchet up the amount of supervision and overhead on these projects to make the point to the customers who require union labor.
Where do you get this bullshit? You know what, never mind. You are and idiot because you choose to be an idiot.
For everyone else, Corbett is directed by PA’s constitution to fund public schools. He isn’t doing that in order to show dumb fucks like Dana that he is a hardass. State aid to Philadelphia schools declined by $274 million in the past three years thanks, directly, to that moron Corbett.
Philly is the only district in PA that the governor singled out for cuts like that, so racist motherfuckers like Dana could get their racists boners on. Well congratulations dipshits. What you hold back for schools, you’ll be paying twice for prisons.
These dipshits don’t mind paying for prisons OR their unionized guards. Their priorities are all f’ed up.
I feel like banning that idiot for just being wrong on everything all the time. It is uncanny.
It is uncanny. But here’s the thing that I want to understand — how is it that the people who don’t mind sneering at the money and the work rules of teachers and people who build stuff never seem to have a problem with the work rules and the money (overtime! pensions!) of the union people who carry guns?
Organized labor stands between workers and a heartless plutocracy.
“Labor was the first price, the original purchase-money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labor, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased.”
Adam Smith (1723–1790)
Just as Jason so stated,
Take away $300 million from the Philadelphia Schools and Pipeline $400 million for a brand spanking new prison in Philadelphia. Extra Curricular activites cut, and no monies allocated for school paraprofessionals or school security. I thought Education was a constitutional right not ‘Prison Fastrack.’ Imagine seeing thousands of students ( not parents or politicians) organizing & marching down Broad Street protesting these school cuts! Just another attack on Public Education.
http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-18/news/40636821_1_education-funding-state-funding-philadelphia-school-district
rMy favorite thing about unions is due process. Employers are fucking crazy, especially in this economy. Top managers will allow their managers to form cliques and vendattas, and toss out perfectly competent staff on a whim out of sheer spite and cockiness. And that is even before you get to the Wall Street-type motivations.
But unions have opted out of the “at-will” rules and work under contracts with due process and at least a pretense at fairness. In addition to increased wages, the other thing needed for a stable middle class is job security. You can’t do financial planning or get stable credit if you are changing employers or careers every few years due to some bullshit out of your control.
And the only people who think it is hard to fire a bad teacher are those who are unable or unwilling to follow due process. If you can’t prove a teacher is bad unde the due process rules, then maybe he/she isn’t so bad after all and doesn’t deserve to be fired.
The airline pilots union increased wages for all pilots.