Tuesday Open Thread [9.24.13]

Filed in Open Thread by on September 24, 2013

“The only real way to repeal the healthcare law is to win elections,” – The Wall Street Journal.

Indeed. But the GOP has taught us that elections have no consequences, and that an opposition party must oppose a President’s entire agenda absolutely. The President can never me allowed to do his job or see his nominees or policies enacted. So, if a miracle happens and a Republican gets elected President, he or she should expect Democrats to treat him or her as Republicans have treated Obama.

Ha!:

The President joins a long line of husbands doing things because they are scared of their wives.

Calgary Texas Senator Speaker Ted Cruz has a plan, and it has nothing to do with responsible governance. David Frum:

“Start with this fact about Ted Cruz: He is no Sarah Palin or Donald Trump. He is a hugely smart, highly focused political player, with a clear-eyed view of political realities. He defeated the most powerful Republican in Texas to win nomination to the U.S. Senate in months of hard campaigning. As a senator, he has overshadowed his senior colleague, John Cornyn, a former chair of the Republican National Senatorial committee. Cruz makes mistakes; everybody does. But he thinks before he acts, and his critics should appreciate that he has a plan.”

“The plan is obvious enough: to emerge as the next acknowledged political leader of American conservatism in the apostolic succession that begins with Robert Taft, continued through Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp, and has had no agreed successor since Newt Gingrich’s retirement from Congress in 1998.”

Stu Rothenberg: “Political parties seem to suffer through internal battles periodically, but the current state of the GOP is much worse than what Democrats went through some 25 years ago, when organized labor and old-style liberals fought against the Democratic Leadership Council for the soul of the party. The structure of today’s parties and the way we consume news make it more difficult for the GOP to resolve its differences successfully.”

Ezra Klein on why 2013 is different than 2011.

What’s lost in the comforting analogy is how much the two sides agreed on in 2011:

1) Republicans had just won a massive victory in the midterm elections, so both sides broadly agreed that Republicans had a mandate to cut spending.

2) Both sides agreed that there should be negotiations over the debt ceiling. Indeed, by the time the debt ceiling hit, negotiations had been ongoing for months.

3) Both sides agreed that the aim of those negotiations was reducing the budget deficit.

As deep as the disagreements over policy were, these broadly shared premises led to negotiations that led to an agreement that cut the budget deficit by cutting a trillion dollars in discretionary spending and another trillion dollars through sequestration’s spending cuts. The ultimate deal, in other words, precisely tracked the issues on which the two parties agreed.

In 2013, however, the parties don’t agree on anything:

1) Republicans believe Obamacare’s unpopularity gives them a mandate to defund or delay the law. Democrats believe that their victory in the last election gives them a mandate to implement their agenda.

2) Republicans believe there should be negotiations around raising the debt ceiling. Democrats emphatically don’t. Currently, there are no ongoing negotiations, nor any plan for them.

3) Republicans believe the aim of these negotiations should be defunding or delaying Obamacare. Democrats say they will not, under any circumstances, delay or defund Obamacare.

There is, quite literally, no shared ground for a deal. Democrats and Republicans disagree on everything from the principle of negotiations to the potential objective of those negotiations. And “disagree” is almost too light a word. They hold mutually exclusive positions that neither can abandon without sparking an overwhelming backlash from their base and seriously harming their credibility in negotiations going forward.

The GOP is operating by analogy to 2011, assuming that the Obama administration — or at least Senate Democrats — will eventually crack and offer concessions. The Democrats are also mindful of 2011, but for them, it’s an object lesson in why they can’t negotiate: Otherwise, the GOP will keep taking the debt ceiling hostage, putting the U.S. at a permanently higher risk of default.

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  1. Dana says:

    DD wrote:

    But the GOP has taught us that elections have no consequences, and that an opposition party must oppose a President’s entire agenda absolutely.

    Actually, the GOP is teaching you that elections do have consequences, that the 2010 and 2012 elections had a real consequence, by electing the Republicans to control the House of Representatives.

    In 2012, the GOP campaigned on opposing President Obama’s agenda, especially Obaminablecare, and they won on that. Why would you expect them to not do what they said they would do?

  2. Delaware Dem says:

    Actually Dana, you would be right in 2010. But in 2012, you had a Presidential election where one candidate (Mitt Romney) called for repeal and one (Barack Obama) for full implementation. The latter won convincingly, in a relatively large landslide.

    In the Senate, the Democrats, also running on full implementation, gained two seats and won the popular vote.

    In the House, the Democrats, also running on full implementation, gained 10 seats and won the popular vote by 2 million votes. The GOP only stayed in the majority due to gerrymandered districts.

    So the answer is clear. The electoral mandate from 2012 is pro-Obamacare.

  3. Delaware Dem says:

    But the GOP can still be little petulant children if they wish. They will be blamed for the Depression after the default and shutdown, and that will cause them to loose the majority in the House in 2014.

  4. socialistic ben says:

    “So the answer is clear. The electoral mandate from 2012 is pro-Obamacare.:”
    Not if you believe that enough Conservatives stayed home because of Romney that Obama won…. and/or people who voted for Obama are too stupid to understand they would be better off with Aetna making their health-care decisions, that they were really voting because of free cell phones, and that Obama stole the election anyway.

  5. jason330 says:

    I agree with Dana that the GOP is right to abandon their promised makeover. They should continue to oppose the ACA. They should continue to destroy their credibility on this issue and basically continue to be racists a-holes who openly hate everyone who isn’t a straight white male. This course of action (coarse of action? …word play bitches!) is in the best long term interest of the country.

    The bitter-enders like old man Dana will be dead soon enough and when the GOP gets can’t crack 10% in a national election they’ll start putting up actual candidates.

  6. Dana says:

    My good friend Jason wrote:

    The bitter-enders like old man Dana will be dead soon enough and when the GOP gets can’t crack 10% in a national election they’ll start putting up actual candidates.

    I seem to recall that my friends on the left predicted the demise of the Republican Party following the 2008 elections — was that done on this site as well? — but we came roaring back in 2010. And there were articles telling us that the Democrats were dead following the 2002 elections, and that didn’t pan out, either. These things run in cycles.

  7. Dana says:

    DD wrote:

    In the House, the Democrats, also running on full implementation, gained 10 seats and won the popular vote by 2 million votes. The GOP only stayed in the majority due to gerrymandered districts.

    I guess that depends on how you define gerrymandered. The Voting Rights Act pushed the creation of majority-minority districts wherever reasonably feasible, and those districts tend to be overwhelmingly Democratic, which leaves the surrounding districts more Republican. Is it gerrymandering to push the creation of majority black districts?