Mike O., The Seventh Type blog, found an interesting document in his inbox. Go over to his place and read the whole thing – the link to the entire document is at Mike O’s place. I’ll post some of the highlights from this 1995 Delaware Senate debate on SB 200 (DE Charter School Law). This document pretty much puts an end to the but, but… whocouldhaveknown debate.
Here’s part of the question and answer segment with Bill Manning (Red Clay’s School Board President at the time)
SENATOR MARSHALL: Understanding that the harshest critics of charter schools around the nation where they’ve been in place and operating, is the issue of the schools skimming off the top and creating an elitist academy with public money.
My concern is looking at the focus of the charter schools by attracting the best at times for a specific educational discipline offered by that charter school; and the concern of recruitment.I looked at children throughout New Castle County in moderate low income neighborhoods, I looked at the City, the west side, the east side, hilltop, I need to understand how your board and how you will guarantee fairness and equal access to every student from every unit.
MR. MANNING: Thank you Senator. Let me approach that question two different ways because I hear the creaming argument over and over again with respect to schools of choice.
One thing that particularly bothers me about that argument is that whoever is making the argument, whether you’re a member of the State PTA or whether you’re a Superintendent from a school district 100 miles away from a district that wants to try a charter, that person is basically saying I know better than the parents of that child where that child ought to attend. But that’s an argument that I’ve never really understood, and it’s always been a little offensive to me.
You also hear the suggestion that for some reason children whose parents are college educated and have jobs that pay more will somehow get the better end of the deal. Which suggests that children of parents who for some reason don’t have a college education somehow aren’t able to cope in this system and aren’t able to make good choices for their children. I don’t believe that. And in Red Clay the experience is just the opposite.
In Red Clay we’ve had schools of choice for the last three or four years. And no school of choice has ever been populated on any basis other than a percentage, which mirrors the District in virtually every respect. Socioeconomically, racially, schools of choice mirror their community.
Keep in mind that right around this time Red Clay was going to referendum for Brandywine Springs – an all choice school – that once opened made the highlighted portion above moot. So while at the time this claim was true, once Brandywine Springs opened it wasn’t. I won’t re-post the data, but I wrote about it here.
(Mr. Manning cont.) But let me get more specific about this particular school that has been proposed for Wilmington High. I can tell you that the proponents and the participants in that charter consortium every one of them have come to the table saying, Governor one thing I want to make sure is that this is a school that provides an opportunity to every child in this district, every child in this area and I want to make sure that this school is not marked as an elitist school. Not a school that you can only get into if you do well in science and math in grades one through eight.
When I look at CSW (Charter School of Wilmington) today I have a hard time believing this initial claim. For years we’ve been told that the demographics (socially and economically) of CSW just happened. To see these concerns actually addressed in 1995 is depressing. And it seems CSW had a plan to address this issue:
(Mr. Manning cont.) So what can we do to make sure that doesn’t happen? Well the first thing you want to do is to make sure that you promote the school in the entire community. I can tell you that that has worked successfully in some of our choice programs already and that the intention of this charter group is to do just that with a very elaborate solicitation and marketing program.
You might also want to make sure that children who might not have done very well in math and science up to the point of ninth grade, nevertheless, have an opportunity to benefit by this school, which will be excellent in math and science.
Well that suggests that you need some catch up. That you need to take those children who have an interest in attending that school, perhaps have an affinity for those subjects but just haven’t done well at them up until that point and give them the extra boost that they need in order to be prepared for ninth grade at this school, which is going to be a rigorous academic year.
And for that reason there is an organization called D.A.R.E. and it is an organization that is dedicated to the promotion of engineering sciences through the study of engineering and sciences among the minority population. It runs a very successful program in Red Clay now and that organization has agreed to run a summer program for children who need some remediation before that ninth year begins.
This will be a school which not only caters to those children who have already displayed excellence in math and science and takes them one step farther; it will also be a school that reaches out to those kids who think they want to succeed in that area and it says for you we have a special summer remediation program that you probably can’t get elsewhere. That’s going to be part of this program. I say it’s going to be part of this program, although I really ought to say as a member of the school board, that we’re going to wait and see the application.
There are some things that I probably can’t tell you about the admissions process and the application process. But I do know what’s in the minds of the consortium that has come together and agreed to sponsor this school. And I can tell you that that’s upper most in their thinking.
Does anyone know any student recruited for the D.A.R.E. program? Did Red Clay implement the D.A.R.E. program in all its middle schools? I don’t know, but what I do know is that CSW, today, is a school for kids who “have already displayed excellence in math and science” mainly through their parent’s financial advantages and the ability to access math/science programs/clubs through their low poverty K-8 schools as well as afford special camps/programs outside of their school.
The back and forth between Senator Sharp and Mr. Manning is interesting as well. I’m copying the entire conversation because it’s quite a dance and should probably be read in its entirety.
SENATOR SHARP: Mr. Manning under the charter school concept that you folks are planning for Wilmington High School, what happens to those kids who are now attending Wilmington High School who live out in my area where you’ve extended the feeder pattern and brought kids all the way out from Kirkwood Highway into Wilmington High School? What happens to them? Where would they go to school?
MR. MANNING: Those who are currently attending Wilmington High will continue to attend Wilmington High. You’re talking about the upper classman who are there now?
SENATOR SHARP: I’m talking about the kids that are in that feeder pattern whether they’re in the school today or scheduled to go there in September.
MR. MANNING: If they are in the feeder pattern but aren’t in the school, they’ll have the same choice that everyone else has in the District; the choice to go to any one of our four schools. That’s the group that is ninth grade and below; the rising ninth graders and below.
If you are in the school now…
SENATOR SHARP: Excuse me for a minute that only applies up to the certain racial quotas?
MR. MANNING: No, no.
SENATOR SHARP: You can’t have a racially identifiable school can you under the court order?
MR. MANNING: We haven’t had a racially identifiable school that is a choice school yet. So there is no reason to limit what the computer does when it sorts out the applications for a choice school.
SENATOR SHARP: Choice is a relatively new project that you’ve tried; I think this is the first year for it, is it not?
MR. MANNING: We have schools of choice that are now going into their third or fourth year; I can’t remember which, at Wilmington High School for example…
SENATOR SHARP: Yeah but that’s a little different concept than what you’re talking about.
MR. MANNING: Last year for the first year…this will be the second year coming up where children can choose their schools from all over the district. Now last year…
SENATOR SHARP: Aren’t they still governed though by this court order?
MR. MANNING: Yes sir they are. Last year we had an experience with that.
SENATOR SHARP: Then my question again would be, for the kids who live in my district, my neighborhood, who are now forced to go into Wilmington High School, can’t go across the street to Dickinson because of the court order and because of your feeder pattern. When and if Wilmington High School becomes a charter school, where will those kids go to school if there’s not room in that charter school?
MR. MANNING: If the court order isn’t lifted then those children will have to…the choices will continue…they won’t have choices, they’ll have to go to Wilmington High School if the Federal Judge says so. We’re obviously working to correct that and I think we will be successful.
SENATOR SHARP: Excuse me let me back up just a minute then. How can it be a charter school if the kids have to go there, which they do now?
MR. MANNING: I’m sorry I should have said this in the beginning. The charter school that we’re talking about will only be a portion of what goes on in that building. Just as is the case right now there are several schools within that school. The charter school that the DuPont Company, Bell Atlantic, Zeneca, The Medical Center, and I’m sure I’m leaving somebody else out, which I apologize; that applies only to the new Academy of Math and Science; which is only a portion of what’s going on at Wilmington High.
SENATOR SHARP: How many students?
MR. MANNING: It hasn’t opened yet.
SENTATOR SHARP: Well I mean how many openings? You’ve only got “x” number of seats in the school. How many students will be in the charter school?
MR. MANNING: It’s designed to have entering classes of up to 200 children.
SENATOR SHARP: So you’ll have a freshman class, 9th grade I guess of 200?
MR. MANNING: Yes. That’s the max.
SENATOR SHARP: And how many freshmen do you normally have in the school?
MR. MANNING: I’m going to say entering classes have been somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 children in that school. But that’s an average and I’d rather you didn’t hold me to that because I don’t know the specific number.
SENATOR SHARP: Okay but you said that 200 of the freshman class would be in the charter school but you’re also telling me that that’s a total of the freshman class. So you have a student body of 800?
MR. MANNING: The charter school if it takes as many children as it hopes to take, 200 children per grade, would have 800. The school itself, the building, has a capacity, and please don’t hold me to this but if I’m in the right neighborhood of roughly 1,600. And that makes room for the other educational programs that are going on in that building, for example the Calloway School has 300 kids.
SENATOR SHARP: You’ve confused me a little bit.
MR. MANNING: I’m sorry.
SENATOR SHARP: You say you have a capacity in the building for 1,600 students?
MR. MANNING: Roughly yes.
SENATOR SHARP: Okay I won’t hold you to that; 1,550, 1,650, somewhere in that neighborhood. We’ll use 1,600 for round figures.
MR. MANNING: Thank you.
SENATOR SHARP: And you only have 800 in the school?
MR. MANNING: In the Academy of Math and Science. There will be other schools…
SENATOR SHARP: No at the present time there are 800 students attending that school.
MR. MANNING: Oh roughly.
SENATOR SHARP: Okay. Where are you going to get all of these students? I’m having a hard time and I’m looking at this purely from an appropriable point of view; my District, my neighborhood, my kids, who are now forced to go to Wilmington High School.
MR. MANNING: They are forced to go to Wilmington High School because of an order that was entered in 1978 which hopefully will be lifted. I can’t, as much as I’d like to, I can’t do anything about that.
SENATOR SHARP: I understand.
MR. MANNING: We will provide a school for those children, a full blown traditional high school for those children, to the extent the court order continues to require those children to go to Wilmington High. And there is room to do that.
SENATOR SHARP: So even with all this the kids in my neighborhood who would like to go back to Dickinson, which is a half a mile up the road or closer for most of them, would still not be able to go to Dickinson. Keeping in mind the court order, we don’t know what’s going to happen with that. So they’re still going to have to go to Wilmington High School. Now we’re going to throw the charter school in there. Those kids may not be eligible to be charter school students.
MR. MANNING: Every child is eligible to be a charter school student. There are no admission…
SENATOR SHARP: Well there’s some criteria isn’t there?
MR. MANNING: No. The decision has been made not to impose admissions criteria on this school.
SENATOR SHARP: You just got done saying with math and science.
MR. MANNING: That’s correct.
SENATOR SHARP: Not every child is suited or able to do well with a math and science curriculum.
MR. MANNING: But there is no rule imposed by the District that says you can come and you can’t. That’s a decision…
SENATOR SHARP: But they’re going to be eliminated purely by their academic ability.
MR. MANNING: No.
SENATOR SHARP: Well if you’re not proficient in math and science, how are you going to take that in a charter school?
MR. MANNING: If you’re not proficient in math and science than presumably you wouldn’t seek admission to this school.
SENATOR SHARP: Well then you’re running me around a circle Mr. Manning; I’m starting to get a headache.
MR. MANNING: I’m sorry.
SENATOR SHARP: I’m talking about the kids in my neighborhood who have to go in there. You said they could go into charter school. I’m saying maybe they are not proficient. You said well they wouldn’t have to go to that school. Then where in the hell are these kids going to school?
MR. MANNING: To the extent that there are children who will remain forced under a court order to go to Wilmington High School, they will have the option of attending the Academy of Math and Science or the current traditional program that is there right now. And those two programs will be run side by side for as long as the Federal Court requires the attendance of certain kids at that school. Does that answer your question?
SENATOR SHARP: No. But I’m not going to continue this conversation. But I can tell you this I think what we’re talking about here and what this Legislation does will be extremely unfair to the kids that I represent.
MR. MANNING: The children that you represent have made choices this spring for what school they want to attend. They have the option of attending any of the four schools in the district and those choices will be honored unless the Federal Court says you have to make them go to Wilmington High.
SENATOR SHARP: Mr. Manning do you remember last year when the kids made those choices…
MR. MANNING: Yes sir.
SENATOR SHARP: …and you guys pulled the plug on them a week before school started?
MR. MANNING: Yes sir. And this year we have made sure that every child sending in the application and telling us what their choices are, and that’s every kid in the District including yours; we have made sure that every one in the District knows that this plan, which has nothing to do with a charter school, this plan may yet be foiled by the continued presence of that court order. But we’re trying as hard as we can to get that lifted.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Senator Marshall.
SENATOR MARSHALL: Madam President I move to excuse the witness.
There are several points in this exchange that I’d like to highlight. First is that Dickinson was a highly desirable high school in 1995. I remember those days, but my guess is that parents/community members who arrived after the Red Clay choice explosion and the opening of CSW don’t. And I’d bet that after CSW and rampant choice hit Red Clay that Senator Sharp’s constituents weren’t fighting to get into that school. In fact, I know they weren’t. They were fighting, and still are fighting, to get into A.I. duPont high school. Why is that? What happened to Dickinson, a highly sought after school, after CSW opened and choice exploded? Basically, CSW cherry-picked its students which then impacted Dickinson and McKean, leaving A. I. as the only high school sanctuary.
Let’s take a quick look at Dickinson’s numbers of Low Income students over the years (I’ve done 5 year spreads, but you can go year by year on the DDOE site). The school Senator Sharp was advocating for his constituents to attend had 25.1% low income in 1999-2000. In the 2004-2005 school year low income jumped to 32.7%. In 2009-2010 low income was at 54.9%, and in 2012-2013 (the last low income numbers available since, for some reason, DDOE is no longer posting low income stats with all other info. Hmmm… ) the low income number at Dickinson is 62.4%. Which leads me back to where I’ve always been: Charters and Choice hurt public schools. Disagree with me? Then make your case, preferably with data.
Now, take a look at this part of the exchange:
SENATOR SHARP: So even with all this the kids in my neighborhood who would like to go back to Dickinson, which is a half a mile up the road or closer for most of them, would still not be able to go to Dickinson. Keeping in mind the court order, we don’t know what’s going to happen with that. So they’re still going to have to go to Wilmington High School. Now we’re going to throw the charter school in there. Those kids may not be eligible to be charter school students.
MR. MANNING: Every child is eligible to be a charter school student. There are no admission…
SENATOR SHARP: Well there’s some criteria isn’t there?
MR. MANNING: No. The decision has been made not to impose admissions criteria on this school.
Really? Then why does CSW have an admissions… er… “placement” test given before a child is accepted? Why not administer that test after the child is accepted – and I contend that a student simply applying at CSW has already demonstrated the required interest.
You know, reading through this 1995 document I can understand why someone would vote for this school. After all, it sounded wonderful in theory. No admission criteria. “A school which not only caters to those children who have already displayed excellence in math and science and takes them one step farther; it will also be a school that reaches out to those kids who think they want to succeed in that area and it says for you we have a special summer remediation program that you probably can’t get elsewhere.” Choice will not re-segregate. CSW will never be elitist.
Go read the whole thing, and hats off to Mike O. for posting this info. And after you read it, come back and tell me if any of the promises made in this hearing were kept.