QOD — How Can An Accountability Testing Scheme Produce Such Low SAT Scores?
We found out this week that approximately 25% of Delaware’s High school students are college-ready, in terms of their SAT scores. Leaving aside that SAT scoring is not the most reliable measure of college-readiness, what is the correlation between the SATs and the DCAS testing regime in Delaware’s schools? It seems to me that if DCAS measures what a kid is learning (yes, I know that is a BIG IF), and the kids are taking a curriculum that makes them ready for college, how can the SAT scores be so out of line with all of this testing? It is pretty remarkable to me that DCAS is used as an accountability test, but that it apparently all of that learning it measures doesn’t translate to better SAT scores.
Delaware is one of the few states that gives all of its HS students the SAT. So that means that comparing our results to other states where the SAT is administered to the kids who want to take it (and are therefore college-bound) is a problem. On the other hand, universal SATs means that there is an opportunity to examine the relationship between the so-called accountability tests and the test often (but less so all of the time) used to help determine college readiness. Especially since the State is busily promoting its leadership in producing college-ready kids.
So what’s the story here? I know that there is alot of unreliability in many of the factors forming this question — DCAS as an accountability measure, the State’s PR probably being more functional than its DOE, SATs as a measure of college-readiness. Still, I would expect that an accountability testing regime would produce much better results in terms of the tests kids take to get into college.
Tags: Delaware Education, QOD
Most kids who voluntarily take the SAT score higher than the ones teaching them.
Teach for the state test, better state test scores. Teach for the SAT’s, better SAT scores. Education seems to be a race to the bottom, lower the standards enough and teach to those standards and we look like were succeeding.
Unlike many other states, Delaware because of race to the top, has elected to pay for all students in 11th grade to take the s at. this has created a pool of test takers that deviate from the norm when the tests are not paid for, so by attracting more test-takers across a broader spectrum of proficiency the test scores have gone down
Other than the obvious it does show that some kids are just not equipped for a college education. Now another question why are the states Vo Tech schools so hard to get into for kids that are obviously not college material?
OK but you can draw some conclusions from these scores. First, if we accept college ready is 1550, realize that the DE mean is 1498, which is not that far off. Moreover, if 27.7% are at or above 1550, this means another 23% or so are between 1498-1550, and therefore very close to the standard.
These scores also tell us that poverty remains a gigantic factor. Even ETS estimates that scores go up about 20 points for every additional $10,000 in annual household income, which would be consistent with (in Delaware) about 7% of African-Americans and 12+% of Hispanics achieving 1550 or better.
Maryland now has about 80% of it students taking the SAT, and with their 80% versus our 100% guess what? Our state average is about 13 points HIGHER than the average in Maryland. And given that the 20% they have not tapped are the poorest 20%, their average can look to go down.
This is all what you can deduce from data and stats put out in the last two weeks without even entering the question of the validity of the SAT.
And here’s the important point: from even a testing standpoint a 1498 mean against a 1550 standard is reason to tweak not freak out. An average SAT prep class for a second SAT take can improve scores 20-30 points for most kids. A little tweaking here or there in junior and senior level ELA and Math classes is what’s called for to get the scores up dramatically.
What these stats REALLY say is that our much-maligned Delaware schools aren’t doing too badly, given the lack of willpower to deal with poverty issues.
We also found out last month that more than half of the Delaware H.S. graduates who enroll at Delaware colleges and universities are placed in at least one remedial class. Perhaps I’m being harsh, but by my definition that would seem to indicate that they are not college ready.
That would suggest to me that (a) UD and DSU aren’t doing a great job of deciding who to admit; or (b) they’re glad to take unprepared students and, by requiring remedial work, immediately put them on the “five-year plan” for graduation.
Meanwhile, the state is kicking off “College Application Month,” in which it takes seniors out of the classroom for a couple of class periods so they can go down to the computer lab and fill out applications online to colleges which, if we can believe these recent reports, they will not be qualified to attend.
This may not make much sense to ordinary folk, but I’m sure there are a lot of people in DDOE who find it perfectly logical.
@mediawatch
Here’s the thing: many of those students taking a remedial class have SAT scores above a 1550. Both UD and DSU give math placement tests to incoming freshmen regardless of SAT scores, and both find that SATs are NOT a good predictor of math success.
DSU is an HBCU–we are in the business of working with underserved populations, most of which are first-generation college students, and (obviously) a large majority of students of color. Our average SAT score is WAY below the “college ready” average and we EXPECT the majority of our students to need remedial training when we get them. Our Inspire scholarship (for in-state students) targets high school grads with a 2.75 GPA regardless of SAT score.
Yes, we have a retention rate that troubles us and we’re working on it: only about 49% of our students graduate in 5 years (everybody, including the Feds, uses the 5-year rate). But the alternative, especially for an HBCU is NOT to turn its back on the kids who desperately WANT a college education and have the intellect but not the skills they are supposed to have. This is not a simple problem.
Steve
This maybe off topic, but the 2.75 gpa, which I believe the UofD uses for its Connected Program also. How does this gpa usually fit into class ranking and would class rank be a better way to award these scholarships? Particularly in lower performing high schools.
@urchix
GPAs aren’t straightforward. There is also a weighted GPA which is based on courses taken. College applications come with a Guidance Counselor’s form, and one of the questions on this form is: Rate the difficulty of courses taken.
So… not all 2.75 GPAs are the same. Two children can have the same regular GPA, but they aren’t weighted/counted the same if one took standard courses and the other took AP courses.
When my son was applying to colleges I met with his Guidance Counselor. The Counselor told me that colleges put a lot of weight on these accelerated courses because they showed the student had already demonstrated themselves capable of college level work. Colleges have to be concerned about their drop out rates, so taking kids who have taken college level classes makes sense.
We are now in the middle of the college application process with our daughter, and while there’s been a lot of talk about lessening the importance of the SAT (and I’m fine with that) the reality is that the SAT is still the golden ticket. Score high enough and everything else on your application won’t really matter.
SAT is still the golden ticket. Score high enough and everything else on your application won’t really matter.
This is, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), absolutely true.
I think it’s unfortunate. I know a lot of really brilliant people who don’t do well on standardized tests.
All I’m saying is that while there’s talk about putting less emphasis on the SAT that isn’t reality… yet.
And about the GPAs, this point should be made: not only are GPAs weighted (and often re-weighted by the admissions office you are applying to), they also evaluate your GPA based on the perceived quality of your high school–and yes there are nationwide ranking systems out there in use. That’s part of why (leaving aside all the other arguments about charters) CSW has a 100% acceptance rate in colleges: when you’re ranked at the 10th best high school in the nation, even your B students get scholarships, which is not the case for most other high schools in Delaware.
And when we think about Cassandra’s question… “How Can An Accountability Testing Scheme Produce Such Low SAT Scores?” … we really should wonder why state tests aren’t in sync with the only test that matters and the one almost every parent considers as soon as their child enters school.
Seriously, if your plans for your child include college, grades K-12 are SAT prep. The fact that state tests don’t line up with this is stunning.
(Again, not saying the SAT should carry that much weight. Just saying, that as of now, it does.)
Well, we haven’t discussed the fact that all those SAT tests (and the SAT practice tests, AND the PSAT, and the drill for the DCAS, AND the time spent administering the DCAS…) take time, money, and resources away from, I dunno, actually TEACHING anything. I don’t know what kind of price break the schools get (I’m thinking, “bus drivers eat free” signs, here) but it still costs money. And the SAT is hardly a “golden ticket” any more, at least at selective schools. It matters more in herd schools, where your numbers get the attention before the application gets read by anyone. However, more selective schools are going test optional, in droves, and we met, last year, or the year before, the point where as many kids are taking the ACT as the SAT’s. Even the SAT numbers, when used, are deceptive. If you look at the score ranges, you need to ask, “Score choice? Super score? Scores for admitted, or scores for enrolled?” The schools do that because the quality of students who apply isn’t as high as it used to be, and because the schools themselves are rated by those numbers. They’re even throwing out supplementary essays. The “golden ticket” is having your check clear, and that’s all. And, even at that, if it takes you six years to graduate…well, more money in their pockets. No one has any incentive to improve our educational system. For the society, it’s publicly supported babysitting, and for the colleges, it’s an excuse to charge for longer. Everyone wins but the kids.
Let’s face the truth…the world needs ditch diggers and Delaware contributes more than it’s fair share.
Steve at 1038: ” First, if we accept college ready is 1550″
I don’t. The whitepaper on that # is from the same college board that runs the test.
@John: I was only accepting it for sake of argument to make a statistical point. If we used that barometer almost no incoming freshmen at DSU and a small minority at UD would qualify.
My point was that even if that number is correct, we are not far off it.
“And the SAT is hardly a “golden ticket” any more, at least at selective schools.”
Yes, they’re putting more emphasis on sports participation. What an improvement!
Most Delaware high school grads–including those from CSW–are not ending up at the most highly selective schools. Ain’t happening, despite the well-publicized experiences of a few.
But in the selective and somewhat selective schools, an SAT score above 1950 will get you in no matter what your grades, and get you at least a partial scholarship as much as 80% of the time.
Here are two links I found regarding colleges not requiring/de-emphasizing the SAT/ACT.
This is a list of colleges that do not use the SAT for admissions at all…
and this is a list that “includes institutions that are “test optional,” “test flexible” or otherwise de-emphasize the use of standardized tests by making admissions decisions about substantial numbers of applicants who recently graduated from U.S. high schools without using the SAT or ACT.”
But choosing a college isn’t as simple as just picking an “elite” school. The chosen college must offer the major the student wishes to pursue. You pick a college based on the department’s reputation, not necessarily the schools. Brandeis and Bard are elite schools, but not if you want to major in Bio-Tech or engineering.
Well, we haven’t discussed the fact that all those SAT tests (and the SAT practice tests, AND the PSAT, and the drill for the DCAS, AND the time spent administering the DCAS…) take time, money, and resources away from, I dunno, actually TEACHING anything.
This is part of what I was getting at with this question. Because if we are having a testing regime that is supposed to measure what kids are learning, and we’re supposed to be producing college-ready kids — there is something missing here. And I suspect that what is missing is a decision of what *being educated* is. The other thing that is missing is education management that isn’t going to be suckered in by testing companies.
It goes beyond all that. America’s business leaders — the chief proponents of testing-based “reform” — aren’t looking for the same sort of education we are. Business wants people to be smart enough to do the job but not smart enough to question their place as a cog in a machine. From that perspective, schools are turning out exactly what those setting the agenda want.
@geezer: too true. About twenty years ago I sat in a meeting on graduation requirements with a DuPont VP who argued for two hours that Fine Arts, Music, Band, PE, etc. had no place in our public schools because, “they can learn all that for themselves once they get out into the world and get a job. We need the concentrating on math and science.”
Even though there seems to be good indications that music instruction is complementary to math instruction.
Or even pointing out that if they only learn math and science DuPont is still going to outsource their jobs to a shop with dirt floors, over seas.
Explains a bit about why the DuPont Co.’s new product pipeline has been so barren for so long.
Here’s the unfortunate collateral damage:
1) Delaware with great intent, truly just wanted the whole SAT hurdle removed to serve a three-fold mission: a) smooth the way for first generation college hopefuls navigating the process b) remove the financial burden of what was becoming expensive application criteria c) send clearly the message to students that all of them have access to the opportunity, so as not to reminisce with all the “shouldas, couldas, etc..” later in life. For that, Delaware should be lauded.
The state shot itself in the foot, by regressing to a mean indicative of mass testing, normalizing our overall results of generalized population—instead of the usual college-bound/hopeful participant. And it could be funded as an indicator with federal funds. Needless to say, outsiders see our numbers and may wince. CRI uses our numbers indiscriminately to deride our public education here, and our very own Governor “boos” his own to what great benefit, I have yet to understand. Really? Beating up the home team, when everyone is welcome or forced to play is hardly being an ambassador for great things going on in the State, and not a real warm and fuzzy endorsement of any regard you have for those who have been placed in this most tenuous position of educating in Delaware.
Seriously, ever see a gym class make it to the States? That’s the parallell between us, and the true SAT demographic profile. Delaware tests the gym class. Other states test the team.
And we all had to take gym.
@ Brooke-
>Or even pointing out that if they only learn math and science DuPont is still going to outsource their jobs to a shop with dirt floors, over seas.
No, they won’t. They’ll lobby Congress for more H1-B visas so they can hire many Indian and Chinese engineers and chemists who reside in the USA & pay them a fraction of what an American engineer or chemist would earn. And they’ll simply replace them with more H1-B applicants once their visas have expired.