Murdertown, USA
That’s the title of Newsweek’s article looking at the crime problem in Wilmington. I thought that this article mostly tried to leverage off of articles like this one, that rank the safety of small cities using FBI crime stats and articles from the News Journal also reporting on Wilmington’s crime issues. The author mentions a “tale of two cities” quality to the city (that’s true) but doesn’t really do this theme justice, which might have told us more about the problem. And if you google “Murdertown”, you see places like Flint, MI, Chicago, IL, various towns in Texas and Youngstown, OH, tagged with it, so the title to this article is even a little worn. Still:
This year, there have been 27 homicides in Wilmington, tying its record 27 murders in 2010, and 135 people have been shot. Twenty-two of them died. With a population of just over 71,000, Wilmington had a violent-crime rate of 1,625 per 100,000 people last year, according to the FBI’s 2013 Uniform Crime Report (that crime rate measures murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, robbery and aggravated assault). The national average was 368 per 100,000 people. Wilmington ranks third for violence among 450 cities of comparable size, behind the Michigan towns of Saginaw and Flint, according to a Wilmington News Journal report.
The stats are bad, but if the number of murders could be cut by one third or so, Wilmington would fall right off of those top 10 lists. The city would be a little safer for the folks who live in the neighborhoods where the guns seem drawn all of the time, but would the problem be resolved? Probably not, because:
When you ask people in Wilmington about the root causes of the city’s crime epidemic, their answers read like the devil’s Christmas list: poverty, racism, lack of economic opportunities, drug and alcohol abuse, gun violence, high dropout rates, teenage pregnancy, stressed families and more.
None of these things gets fixed overnight, not even in four years. But these things have been true in Wilmington for a long time, and this article (and the NJ article covering the article) misses an opportunity to look at how one small city, in one small state had been trying to tackle these issues. Certainly, opportunities for accountability are missed across the board (including the NJ): reporting on efforts to fix root causes; how the multiple new WPD deployments work or not; progress towards the Mayor’s “two years and you wouldn’t recognize the city” inauguration promise; reporting on what city council is doing to address the crime issues, and so on.
In spite of promises made by this Admininstration, the city’s violence persists and seems to increase in some areas. Even the WPD gets why this can be so hard — the silence of communities:
“It’s a rare thing to have someone actually stand up in the middle of the block and tell us, ‘This is what happened. This is who did it.’ Because they live there,” says Geiser. “When we leave, there’s no telling what’s gonna happen. Their house will get shot up, egged, vandalized.”
There’s a vocal effort to vilify people who have to live with the folks terrorizing their communities for not speaking up. Which is an easy thing to do from communities where the criminal terrorists don’t live. But the key point here is that the folks trying to keep their heads down know who is regularly in their neighborhood — and it isn’t the police. *This* is why so very many of us have been advocating for more community policing (like the kind implemented on Market St and the Riverfront). Because when residents understand that the WPD is always there — on every shift — it gets easier to trust that talking won’t put your own family and home at risk. There is no doubt that communities need to cooperate in the removal of the criminal terrorists in their midst. But there won’t be more cooperation until the police make themselves a more persistent and more trustworthy presence in the neighborhoods. That is supposed to be the goal of community policing and somehow this is good enough for Market St, but not for the neighborhoods surrounding Market St. Many Wilmington residents have been calling for this — even before anyone knew about not having a Homicide Unit — and yet this continues to be ignored.
The other thing that gets ignored is that dealing with “broken windows” is one method for reducing the chaos of neighborhoods where the criminal terrorists do their business. L&I enforcing code for trash, building upkeep sends the message to landlords that they can’t just extract money out of neighborhoods. Getting the AGs office to fully implement a Crime Free Rental Housing program raises awareness among landlords, tenants, neighbors and provides a marketing tool for landlords who struggle to get better tenants.
Last and not least are the many groups of people in Wilmington who are working hard to make it a great place to be. These groups are largely ignored by the City (and City Council), yet the biggest thing that the city could do would be to become a more reliable partner for their work.
And for all of the ideas out there, what is missing from this equation is bold and effective leadership. Leadership that will ask for help, that will change when needed, who will demand much better from city departments and who will challenge city council to rise to the occasion. Mayor Williams sold himself as someone who got how the WPD needed to work and who got what was needed to reduce the city’s crime problem. Clearly that was incorrect. Places like Philly, Camden and Baltimore have seen reductions in crime over the past year or more. None of those places will say they’ve done enough (and both Philly and Baltimore have the “two cities” problem too) and none of these places will say that it was easy. But there was leadership in those cities who insisted on real change, real accomplishments — not the usual belligerence and a spectacularly misguided attempt to compare Wilmington’s murder rate to larger cities. The Mayor might be appalled by the Newsweek article, but I don’t think that he knows just how appalled Wilmingtonians are by his performance as Mayor.
EDIT: For those who haven’t heard the promises, here is a piece of the Mayor’s confidence in effectively managing the violence problem and his assertion that if he couldn’t get it done, he didn’t deserve to be Mayor anymore.
Tags: City of Wilmington, Featured
Dennis Williams and Tom Gordon- Partners In Crime.
Delaware is on the fast track to becoming the next Detroit. High taxes & lousy schools..
While I am certain many are displeased with Mayor Williams, this cements James Baker’s legacy as Mayor Murder.
I have an interesting idea:
Elect a Republican mayor.
I would bet that an administration that operates outside of the perenially in power political machine could much more effectively deal with the City’s problems.
At least go for an Independent.
There has to be a sane and solutions-oriented GOP candidate, first. And I wouldn’t bet on that. Ideology trumps it all for these folks — especially those who need the funding. A GOP candidate who could demonstrate that he or she cares about fixing the city vs being a missionary for failed GOP policy might have a genuine chance.
It has to be more than just “elect a Republican,” like Cassandra said. Give us ideas, suggestions.
I know that where I work near Forty Acres – not exactly a high-crime area, I admit – the only time I see police outside their cars is when they are dropping off or picking up their dry cleaning from Vogue. That’s not conducive to developing the kinds of relationships they need to elicit valuable information from people in the neighborhoods.
“poverty, racism, lack of economic opportunities, drug and alcohol abuse, gun violence, high dropout rates, teenage pregnancy, stressed families and more.”
Yes, lets see a republican tackle these issues. Some of which republicans deny exist. Racism? Nope, we are post racial. Gun violence? Second Amendment! More guns=more safety! Teen pregnancy? Abstinence only will surely solve that one!
I am all for new perspectives in the discussion. But really, the party that denies reality on science, history, economics, facts, figures, etc. is going to tackle the socio-economic problems of inner city America? Yeah, that’ll work.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Chase, Citi, Capital One, Barclays, USbank, Applied Bank, Bank of America, PNC, WSFS, M&T and I’m sure I’m missing a few all have major operations in the city
All pull in TENS, Probably HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of profits in aggregate, and here we are discussing why the city doesn’t work.
I don’t know man, I can’t crystallize it. But it just smacks to me of everything that is wrong in our society in one perfect picture. Ivory Towers full of gears grinding away and making a small group of people wealthy, while the poor below are murdering each other.
Wilmington is a microcosm of this country, and is the result of what capitulating to Banks will do when you allow them to dictate to a town, city, state, country how they are going to do things
^comment of the month^
drops mic and exits
lol
I added to this post a portion of the video from the Inauguration ceremony in 2013, where Williams committed to “making a dent in crime in 6 to 7 months and in 2 years, you wouldn’t recognize the place”. It’s about 4 minutes.
Cassandra is exactly right: Prevent 10 murders a year and you’re at the city’s historical murder rate. Achieve that and national magazines can go back to pointing at Camden NJ as the poster city for dysfunction.
Better yet…. we could reclassify what “murder” is and instead have a lot of “suicides by residential location” or “accidental death due to obstruction of projectile path”. BOOM murder rate statistic plummets.
Say what you will, but decades of democrat ruled politics at county/city level are to blame. No one wants to address the elephant in the room, ie- the problems that exist in Wilmington’s black community. Rampant fatherless-ness, single parent/no parent homes, a general lack of accountability, generations of public assistance dependence (of course pushed by Democrat enablers that profit from the politics of victimization)and racism on the black community’s part, as well as a culture of snitches get stitches.
Instead they want to blame guns, the WHITE MAN, corporate greed, etc. They need to look in the mirror to see where accountability lies. Fer Christ’s sake there is an afro American in the white house, in charge of DHS, and the AG office.. Get off public assistance, have sense enough to get an education, speak English, don’t dress like an asshole, and you will succeed. Just ask Alan west, Ben Carson, Tim Scott, Mia Love, Charles Barkley, etc…
“decades of democrat ruled politics at county/city level are to blame.”
“No one wants to address the elephant in the room, ie- the problems that exist in Wilmington’s black community”
So which is it harry? Is it both or did one cause the other? If we had decades of republican ruled politics at the county/city level, what do you think those republicans would have done? Be specific. How would they have ameliorated the problems in the Wilmington’s black community? Here’s your chance to contrast and compare instead of just spouting off about a party you aren’t a member of (and for the record I’m not a member of the Democratic Party either).
So, whatcha got harry?
Harry – ameliorate means to make something better.
I suppose the inherent laziness and immorality of white people leads to all the white-collar criminals with pale skin, right, Harry?
Yes, ask Charles Barkley… A man who was caught getting oral sex from a hooker not too long ago. Also known for throwing men through bar windows. Remember, he is not a role model.
From this, I have determined that Harry’s issue is not that there are black people who commit crimes in these neighborhoods, but rather black people who commit crimes and chose not to vote republican, since all of the black people he mentioned are R’s.
Every community has work to do. The Black community, the white community, the brown community, etc. However, we cannot act as though the playing field has been balanced. You speak of black kids getting an education…. tell our government to work to improve their schools rather than closing them. Wilmington doesn’t have one public high school and is about to lose a handful of other grade schools. Is this the fault of the gang bangers? Last I checked, the black city council doesn’t control what schools are closed or the criteria used to close them.
These gang bangers… did they decide to slice the city into 4 different school districts, limiting city resident’s authority over their children’s education? Lily white Delmar has enough kids to fit in one Wilmington high rise, yet they have their own school district. Is that the doing of these thugs on the street?
The entire eastside is owned by people who live in Hockessin. They rent their property to any person who has cash and rarely ensure that their tenants respect city codes while allowing their properties to become eyesores. Essentially, taking the limited income of city residents back to Hockessin with little to no return. Your stance is that this is purely the result of fatherless homes?
Wilmington has allocated no resources for witness protection. They openly admit that they have no true process for protecting the families or identities of witnesses. However, you want the gang banger’s “Stop Snitching” movement to be fought single handedly by a few residents whom, I suppose, you believe shouldn’t care if their family and children are harmed in retaliation? If your hero Giuliani had used that same approach when taking out the mafia, there would have been no arrests and fewer witnesses.
The reality is that every community has work to do, but to act as though all of the community’s problems have been cause by the community itself, is not only wrong, but borderline ignorant.
I have really had enough of these white violent retirees in my neighborhood. I’ve been considering locking my doors and taking the keys out of my ignition its gotten so bad
Harry: If the GOP hadn’t killed its credibility, it could nominate a mayor who might have a change to improve things in Wilmington.
It happened in 1968. A friend of Nelson Rockefeller and Republican national committeeman beat a white ethnic incumbent in an general election dominated by white ethnics, and where the black vote split 8-1 for HHH over Nixon. He was a fine mayor, respected by all, including the fellow who beat him in ’72, and for decades was a resource to his successors.
Since, the GOP has become such a goober-crat party that even the once-Republican Delaware suburbs have rejected it.
“I don’t know man, I can’t crystallize it. But it just smacks to me of everything that is wrong in our society in one perfect picture.”
And that’s why “Fight Club” was set in Wilmington.
Wilmington = Poster Child for the Democratic party.
Nothing like viewing a complex socio-economic problem through a narrow political lens.
The first of several suggestions:
Take violent criminals out of the community & keep them away for a VERY long time.
Prison, with its liberal visiting policy, 3 hots & a cot has become ineffective as a deterrent. Send the worst violent criminals as far away as possible & bring back hard labor sentences. Those who do come back should be messengers for how bad prison is.
I suggest the beatings continue until morale improves.
Suggestion #2:
Jobs, Jobs, Jobs:
-Get rid of the City Wage Tax.
Why locate there if doing so means paying yet another tax?
-Actively & aggressively recruit new businesses. Hire professionals to do this.
-Review City ordinances & zoning. Dump those that are not business friendly.
-Streamline permits so that they can be obtained very quickly & easily.
-Make the City a Right to Work Zone. Many companies will simply bypass DE otherwise.
-Offer tax incentives based on employee hiring. (If a company can come into the City & create 500 jobs give them dramatic tax incentives)
Creating jobs is a key factor in improving the City. Unless the City & State governments take definitive action, Wilmington will continue to rot away.
Restorative Justice at the state level. This includes voluntary victim mediation programs for non violent offenders and shifting the focus from drug crime to violent crime. Many states have already done this with great results. With the dollars saved you could even hire more police since our city is understaffed per capita.
radef16,
After “Jobs, Jobs, Jobs” your comment went into GOP fantasy land. There is no evidence that ever lower taxes and union busting correlates to economic growth. In fact, the evidence points to the opposite. (See Kansas for a close at hand example)
Your prescription would just encourage BoA and other banks to avoid MORE of their civic responsibilities. If that is even possible, as they may be net tax recipients at this point.
Anyway, jobs, jobs, jobs – yes. But manufacturing jobs.
“Prison, with its liberal visiting policy, 3 hots & a cot has become ineffective as a deterrent. Send the worst violent criminals as far away as possible & bring back hard labor sentences. Those who do come back should be messengers for how bad prison is.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B6NURiPKE0
“After “Jobs, Jobs, Jobs” your comment went into GOP fantasy land. ”
I wonder why most of the few newly created manufacturing jobs seem to be happening down south in GOP land?
Forced unionization =no new manufacturing jobs.
Companies will not even think about considering Wilmington as long as this the case.
This isn’t union busting, just reality.
Also, give me a good reason to start a business inside Wilmington City limits vs outside. I can’t seem to come up with any.
“our city is understaffed per capita.”
No, it’s not. Wilmington’s cops per capita level is among the nation’s highest for cities of 50,000 residents and above. In 2012, police departments serving cities with more than 50,000 residents employed an average of 17 officers per 10,000 residents, according to Governing magazine Here’s the link; the chart there lists Wilmington behind only three American cities:
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-officers-per-capita-rates-employment-for-city-departments.html
Yeah, its all the unions fault. Not really.
Wilmington is ideal if you need a port to ship things to Europe. But manufacturers are not returning here to export, they are coming back to America for shorter shipping times domestically. And in the case of returning from Asia, retain intellectual property and copy rights. Many companies have opened in south central locations for several different reasons. VW, a pro-union company that actually PREFER their shop to be union, for example opened in TN for its central shipping location. (not its union policy)
“All the manufacturing” that has come back to the US still pales in comparison to the millions that left the country in the last 3 decades. Unions or no, there is no Detroit-in-its-heyday of the south, and is likely never going to happen. Manufacturing trends now are companies setting up “small” shops in countries that can supply a global region with shorter delivery times.
radef, What you think you know to be true and what is true have diverged. Now you are running on pure faith.
“I wonder why most of the few newly created manufacturing jobs seem to be happening down south in GOP land?”
Simply not true. Here are some facts, but I’m sure they will not penetrate your faith-based views of how the world works. And I will not be holding my breath waiting for your retraction/correction.
Fastest job growth by state:
1. North Dakota – Fracking
2. Texas- Fracking
3. Arizona – Solar Power
4. Utah – Hospitality/Tourism
5. Colorado – Manufacturing/Mining
6. Idaho – Fracking
7. Florida – Housing
8. Oregon – Manufacturing (Unionized)
9. Georgia – Manufacturing (Non-Unionized)
Bane has the comment of the year, I think. Wilmington hasn’t had full control of its destiny for a very long time. And the usual mouthpieces for Freedom and Liberty certainly won’t be advocating for that for Wilmington.
There’s little in terms of witness protection funds at the AGs office too. And there’s been a second Instagram account outing people who talk to the police shut down. But then, if the police disciplined their problem employees rather then letting them retire out, they wouldn’t end up in public office.
jason330,
Just considering manufacturing jobs (what very few that there are), what percentage have been located in the South vs. elsewhere?
Also, how many have been located in the Northeast vs. elsewhere?
To which states are companies moving their existing manufacturing operations?
Just curious.
“But then, if the police disciplined their problem employees rather then letting them retire out, they wouldn’t end up in public office.”
That one’s gonna leave a mark.
@radef: How many of those companies chose their location without the lure of “tax breaks” from the state governments in question?
@Geezer: we are down by more than 30 officers. The budget funds those positions but they are not filled leading to an understaffing. This has been discussed many times in city council. Also if you ever live in Wilmington, it is a well known fact about the long response time and understaffing. It’s a story I heard over and over going door to door. Even happened to me when my wife and I were struck in the East Side by a drunk driver who fled the scene. Took 3 hours for an officer to arrive and take a report.
Geezer, check this out. Incentives for South Carolina.
http://sccommerce.com/sc-advantage/growth-incentives
Perhaps the Chinese would be interested in buying Wilmington and building their own Shenzhen-on-the-Delaware.
http://worldtruth.tv/chinese-city-to-be-built-in-michigan%E2%80%8F/
we are down by more than 30 officers
We’re down by 30 officers because the WPD hasn’t been able to put together an Academy. They’ve been working on filling one, but there are very real challenges to getting an Academy filled here. But the authorized force strength is about the same per 10K as Philly. And Philly has been seeing real reductions in its violent crime issues. A long term issue with the WPD is getting them to justify how they deploy their fairly extensive resources.
This glove manufacturer moved into Wilmington a year or so ago.
The opportunity for manufacturing in the US is taking a hard look at what Germany has done. They’ve got a robust manufacturing presence, but it is for high-end, high-skilled stuff. GE has been bringing back some of its high-end manufacturing back to Louisville. We had a remarkable chance at manufacturing if we could have gotten the windfarm off of Rehoboth. As I note above, there is interesting entrepreneurial activity by outfits just outside of the fence of the port and I still don’t think anyone is paying attention enough to that to see what opportunities could be grown there. But stealing someone else’s manufacturing isn’t much of a path to success, growing our own is the long term play.
How to deploy LEOs wasn’t the discussion. It’s that we are understaffed per the requirements of Wilmington. You can argue all day but we live, work, and volunteer in the city and experience this problem not just read about it from a suburban fortress.
This is the first time for me where Democrats are saying we shouldn’t throw more money at the problem? I could say the sky is blue and probably get pushback on here just because I have an R next to my name.
Vindicating why this Democrat was proud to vote for RK
I’m not going to “argue all day.” I’m going to point out that if Wilmington had the average police force for a city its size, it would have only 110 officers. So until you can tell me what you know about force deployment, I’m going to insist that the city gets no more cops until it learns how to use the ones it has properly.
@JM: Who’s RK?
Oh, I see. I didn’t put that name together with the campaign sign.
@RK: Thanks for dispelling the notion that throwing money at problems is the domain of Democrats. Republicans have never seen a foreign policy problem or a domestic security problem they didn’t want to throw money at.
Also, the sky being blue is an optical illusion. Earth’s atmosphere actually is clear.
Well considering Wilmington is a murder town it’s not an apples to apples comparison when looking at other cities. Crime is stretching out to areas it never was in before. As far as force deployment; I don’t need to have cancer to be able to treat it. And if you refer back to my original post, you’ll see that if we could pass Restorative Justice legislation at the state level and shift focus to rehabilitation/restoration and away from drug crime to strictly violent crime then the need for more officers would diminish over time. This is a well thought out plan I put together not just emotion. I’ve spent so much time looking into this it will work if we could get it passed.
And as far as Republican foreign policy I don’t see the need to intervene in foreign affairs with force. You probably think I watch Fox News and believe in trickle down economics too? I don’t want to write a book on here so maybe that’s a discussion for another day, but I’m not the type of R you’re used to. This is Delaware not Texas.
“Well considering Wilmington is a murder town it’s not an apples to apples comparison when looking at other cities.”
WTF? Of course it is. Murders take place everywhere, and the number of cops in a city has little relation to how many murders it experiences.
As for your claims, give me a link to show where the plan has “worked over time.” The legislation is worth passing, but not with the false promise that it will “work.” As I said above, if you kept 10 murders per year from happening, we’d be in the middle of the statistical pack. It wouldn’t be much help for the 18-20 people per year who would still be murdered, though.
Agree to disagree. It’s not an apples to apples comparison when the murder rate per capita here is so high. That is evidence of a deeper issue. But hey we are already doing it your way. This week was Newsweek maybe next we can shoot for TIME.
@radef16:
You should check the unemployment statistics before you rave about the South. Not only do its low tax rates make the South the nation’s worst region for education, wages and numerous other measures of quality of life, its unemployment rates are below the national average, too. Only one southern state, Texas, is even in the top 25 states by unemployment rate.
You’ve been sold a bowl full of shit, and you’re telling me it tastes delicious.
“But hey we are already doing it your way.”
No, we’re not. That’s the point, Einstein. There are plenty of cops. We’re not deploying them properly.
And what happens even if we do? Cops are simply the gate keepers to the criminal justice system. An 80% recidivism rate in 3 years means that it’s the justice system that’s failing, not the policing strategy. We need more police and a change at the state level so they’re not going after the same guys they picked up 3 weeks ago.
Folks: Wilmington had 275 officers in 1975, in 1985, in 1995. Even with creative staffing, the workforce was frequently stretched, at peak loads and other times.
No cause shown to reduce the force. New leadership, on the other hand, is warranted.
It’s that we are understaffed per the requirements of Wilmington.
Frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about. None.
This city has the same resources per 10K that Philly does (with way worse issues than Wilmington) and they manage to reduce their crime levels. No one is calling for fewer cops — just that they make better use of the ones they have.
“Even with creative staffing, the workforce was frequently stretched, at peak loads and other times.”
Makes you wonder how those cities with average-sized forces manage to make it work. Must be an unsolvable mystery, eh?
Re: justice system and recidivism. The justice system does not rehabilitate. It assigns penalties and acts as a marginal deterrent for criminals. The police are less engaged in crime prevention than crime solving.
Unless and until the residents are willing to support law enforcement, the police, regardless of the number, will remained handicapped, unless they witness the crime themselves. The NJ today cites officials saying the “inability to find witnesses as a primary reason for the lack of arrests in the rising number of shootings and homicides in the city.”
Everyone knows that the police are limited in what they can do. But the community cannot be silent or absent in the process. More police are just more people who potential witnesses will not talk to. I think people have to take back their communities. I don’t know why they don’t. Maybe they are just missing the leadership necessary to give them a voice and direction.
Or maybe they enjoy the continuing joy of breathing, both for themselves and their families.
Exactly, Geezer.
@cassandr: this information is coming directly from city council. If you have an issue with it then you should move here and run or attend a council meeting to dispute the facts.
@dave: agreed. That’s why a shift to Restorative Justice is needed. Punishment alone hasn’t worked. Oregon and Texas have saved a ton of revenue by implementing this approach. It preserved families, compensates victims and increased their feeling that justice was done, costs less, and most importantly has worked to reduce violent and property crime.
But the community cannot be silent or absent in the process.
@Dave — So how easy was that to do? Just repeat the usual bullshit without ever even trying to grapple with the entirety of the problem?
Even the officer that Newsweek talked to got the problem with this. And if you really read that NJ article, what you bypassed for the idiotic common wisdom of people who don’t live in dangerous places, you would have seen that another Instagram account listing the names of people cooperating with the WPD had been shut down.
The criminals terrorizing these neighborhoods know one thing for certain — that because the police aren’t in these neighborhoods as regularly as the criminals are, they can count on a certain level of silence. This is why so many of us have been screaming for real community policing for so many years. If you can’t trust that the police will be around when the criminals get out of jail looking for who talked, then your best survival choice just might be to keep your head down and mind your business.
Dave: also consider that with such high recidivism could you blame the no snitch mentality? If they turned informant chances are the perp will be out in a few days and back on the street to get them. There’s a FB page active now with running lists of informants. That’s not conducive to cooperation with police.
No Rob, the Council is not telling folks that they need more police, they are genuinely confused about how it takes so long for the WPD to get an approved Academy going. And I go to and see plenty of Council meetings and Public Safety meetings and have never seen you there. I’ve been working on this issue with people for probably more than a decade. And again — I’ve never seen you at any of these meetings to try to change deployments or at least to understand how the WPD uses the resources they have.
@cassandra: I literally spoke to a council member about it this morning. And as far as meetings, if you were ever in the community you’d see me. I’m at almost every community meeting since last Spring as well as being on the board for DACA. You’ll have to forgive me though for not being there the last 10 years…I was in high school and college for most of that.
Hey, I spoke with a city council member this morning, too. Spoke with one last week, as well. Why does that even matter?
And, Rob, were you at the Triangle meeting, and if so what was my community’s response. Serious question. I can’t make every meeting. My guess… community policing.
I spoke to a council member last night and one this morning. And you certainly are not at the community meetings I attend in West Center City, although I get that *that* community doesn’t figure into your calculation of *community*. Nor were you at the West Side meetings trying to advocate for community policing.
Everybody has to start somewhere, but being a rookie doesn’t absolve you from having the correct information.
@pandora: I mentioned that because I specifically called them to make sure I wasn’t mistaken about the understaffing before I commented about it. I never addressed the staffing problem before because my focus was on solutions at the state level. Triangle is in the 1st while I’m in the 4th so I’ve never been to their meetings, although it’s a 15 min run from me. Maybe soon though, I’ve been branching out since the election. If you’d like shoot me an email for the next time they meet it would be good to sit in on it. Keesler.robert@gmail.com
Well Cassandra there’s my email plus I’m on Facebook feel free to add me. If you think I could learn something please send me a list of dates and times and I’ll be there. I’m not close minded and am willing to support other approaches, although I’m fully confident that Restorative Justice legislation will have the greatest impact because it addresses the issue of broken homes and a chance to escape the cycle of poverty and crime. I’m repeating info given to me by council members.
@Cassandra
“that because the police aren’t in these neighborhoods as regularly as the criminals are, they can count on a certain level of silence. ”
Ahh, so if I take this to it’s logical inference, more police in the neighborhoods will result in more less silence? (more witnesses?) did I get that right?
WILMINGTON = DUMP
@Dave
If a witness tells police what they, and who they, saw and the police can’t guarantee (yes, I know there are no guarantees but everyone knows what I mean) their, or their family’s, safety – or even confidentiality – then people will not come forward. And neither would you.
This is why so many of us support community policing. If the same police officers are in a community – interacting with the community daily, and not just when there’s an “incident” – more people would talk because it would be harder to identify witnesses because there would be ongoing relationships. The police would know the players. Potential witnesses would be harder to identify because the police speak with people on a regular basis, not just when there’s a problem.
To say, “But the community cannot be silent or absent in the process. More police are just more people who potential witnesses will not talk to. I think people have to take back their communities. I don’t know why they don’t.” demonstrates a lack of familiarity with these communities and what is going on.
“Potential witnesses would be harder to identify because the police speak with people on a regular basis, not just when there’s a problem.”
I didn’t understand this sentence. Did you mean that witnesses would be easier to identify?
Assuming you meant easier, do you have any research or examples where this is happening. Community policing exists in some places, so is there some evidence that it has become easier? Silence is a result of both fear and a code. I suppose that community policing could serve to reduce fear, but I’m not convinced that it can overcome the code against snitching. I would be interested in some examples where this might be taking place in the nation today, if it is.
Silence is a result of both fear and a code.
Not usually both for one person. Those following a code are part of the criminals that need to be dealt with. Those living with fear are their neighbors.
No. Witnesses would be harder to identify since police would be interacting with the community on a daily basis.
And as a city resident, I’ve experienced community policing. With community policing it’s very, very common for police to know residents and just stop to chat and get to know the community – they become part of the landscape. It makes a difference. What has been your experience with community policing while living in an urban area?
Oh! I get it you meant harder to identify by those who are seeking to intimidate witnesses! Ok.
I lived in San Francisco and Oakland. My experience with community policing is only anecdotal though, from some residents and from some police. Some of the residents of these cities would never give anyone up, even if it effected them personally, either out of fear or because of some sense that what goes on in the community stays in the community.
The police that I had occasion to converse with said much the same. They can’t be everywhere and honestly could not adequately protect every witness, but they also said that the most of the communities frowned on any snitching except for the most heinous crimes (i.e. against children).
My general opinion is that communities need to “police” themselves since there is a general disapproval for cooperating with law enforcement. I put “police” in quotes because I didn’t mean it literally. Rather, I mean they need to establish some community governance structure that can counter the fear and reluctance to cooperate with law enforcement.
So… you conversed with police. Did you happen to converse with the people who you think should “police” themselves?
As far as “snitching”… that’s an entirely different group of people than those just trying to survive. You really need to separate those groups.