If You Are Okay With Officer Field’s Behavior Then You Are Part Of The Problem
There is no excuse. Not one. And if you think there is an excuse for Officer Field’s behavior then you really are part of the problem. Know who else is part of the problem? The teacher and the administrator. Not one of the adults involved demonstrated skill in deescalation. All of them demonstrated the art of escalation. Talk about an adult pissing contest. And I’m fine with all of them being fired. No loss there.
Not kidding. If you think kids don’t pull out their phones during class then you don’t know kids. (My daughter was so guilty of this in high school and yet no one laid a hand on her. They. Wouldn’t. Dare. And that is what privilege looks like.) Hell, this isn’t even a kid problem. Mostly everyone is guilty of this behavior. If you’re okay with Officer Field’s behavior, hope you’re okay if you’re flipped out of your chair and thrown across the room at a restaurant that doesn’t allow cell phone use. That’s okay, right?
The truth is this would never have happened to a white, middle class girl. Not. Ever. It’s why white boys accused of crimes are shown in their yearbook pictures while Tamir Rice (a 12 year old) is portrayed, not only as a potential criminal threat, but far older than his years.
And this incident is a flippin’ pattern that those parsing this horrendous video ignore.
University of Virginia student Martese Johnson misstepped earlier this year when he tried to enter a bar while underaged. He was beaten bloody. Twelve-year-old Tamir Rice misstepped last year in Cleveland, Ohio when he was playing with a toy gun in a park. He was executed at close range. John Crawford III misstepped in Beavercreek, Ohio when he picked up an air rifle off a shelf in Wal-Mart. He, too, was executed at close range. Jonathan Ferrell misstepped in Charlotte, N.C. two years ago when he banged on doors for help after a car accident. He was shot 10 times. Less than two months later, Renisha McBride misstepped in Detroit, Mich., when she got in a car accident of her own and also sought assistance. She was shot in the back of the head.
From an early age, blacks learn their lives can be taken casually—almost accidentally—and learn to focus on what they can control. Blacks are taught humility in the home—always with words and often with whips—and in the black Christian church. Black humility is often conflated with the Christian kind, but the two couldn’t be any further apart. Christian humility is affirmative, rooted in equality and the idea that God loves whores and kings all the same. Black humility is borne of pragmatism, of self-preservation in the face of mechanized brutality. To be black and humble is to be outwardly subservient, to tiptoe around the authority of a teacher, or a cop, or a neighborhood watchman, or just a white person ambling past. When blacks choose defiance, no matter how small, over humility, they are proving their black criminality. Bad things happen.
Sandra Bland, and Eric Garner, and Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown, and Jordan Davis, and Freddie Gray, and Walter Scott were all recently defiant to authority in their own ways, and they were all killed.
Compare their fates to that of James Eagan Holmes, the heavily armed gunman who was taken alive, tried, convicted, and sentenced after walking into an Aurora, Colo. movie theater in 2012 and shooting into the crowd, killing 12 and injuring 70 more. Or compare their fates to that of Dylann Roof, who walked into a Charleston, S.C. church earlier this year and killed 9 churchgoers. Officers arrested him, threw him in the back of their car, and then bought him Burger King.
And there are many, many more examples. Go read this article.
If you can’t handle a cell phone in the classroom – get out of the classroom. In fact, you might need to get out of society all together, because cell phones aren’t going away.
Still wanna defend this monster on a power trip… then ask yourself if this would ever happen to a middle class white girl from Hockessin. Just for fun pretend the officer was a black male. Good luck with that.
Tags: Featured, White Privilege
How about the de-escalation of a student doing what the teacher or security officer tells you to do?
Let’s not act like a certain segment of society places no respect whatsoever on teachers security officers, or police.
You mean blacks?
Nope. Not an acceptable argument for what that officer did. Go watch the video again. Notice the part after he flips her on her head and neck and throws her across the room – and then has to take several steps to reach her? That’s excessive. But if you’re okay with this behavior in regards to a difficult teenager (an age group that’s always reasonable) then you better be okay with it when it comes to your kid. And if you think your teenagers were always respectful then you have bigger problems and delusions.
And could you define that “certain segment of society” for me, because where I’m standing this behavior (cell phone use in high school) extends across the board, but you obviously see a difference. What could that be?
Let me pull that passive-aggressive shade off your comment there…
SussexAnon… Am I correct in interpreting your comment as the following: “Let’s not act like a certain segment of society [blacks; people of color] places no respect whatsoever on teachers, security officers, or police.”
Before I offer my next comment, I’m hoping you can offer a response to the potential accurate or inaccurateness of my interpretation.
10 bucks SA was going to say “urban culture”
During the decade I spent as a high-school teacher, one of the many things I learned was that kids are kids, teens are teens, and one “race” of students wasn’t any more inclined to jackassery than the other. You are special kind of assclown if you truly believe an individual’s race predisposes them to disrespect.
I’d be inclined to not trust authority figures, be they police or teachers, if all they ever showed me was disrespect, prejudice, and an overwhelming lack of concern and empathy for whatever was happening in my life.
There is absolutely no reason that the officer should have a) been called and b) should have engaged when asked. He is there to enforce laws, not school regulations.
You also didn’t catch the part that the girl’s Mother and grandmother had both recently died and she had become orphaned and put in foster care (which is why she was in a new school).
https://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/black-teen-attacked-by-south-carolina-cop-has-a-cast-on-her-arm-and-neck-and-back-injuries/
A Student Body President Was Threatened With Suspension For Wearing This Outfit (http://bzfd.it/1PWUqZX) > If this girl had been black, she might be dead right now… Or, at a miminum, have been arrested for a host of trumped-up claims, such as ‘Posing an Imminent Threat’ or ‘Attempt to Steal Officer’s Weapon’
I’m not kidding, this situation echos domestic violence. “You made me hit you.”
And Prop Joe is correct. White girls get crap for how they dress (boys aren’t capable of controlling their baser instincts, obviously. Ugh.) but this would have played out differently if it was a black girl – who are sexualized beyond belief, and beyond their years.
Kudos to SussexAnon for putting the Sussex into this conversation.
A school is not a restaurant, and a student is not an adult. Inappropriate on his part, yes. An outrage, no, at least not for me. This should not have escalated to this extent, there should not be cops on campus in the first place, etc., etc. But happen it did, and I refuse to play the liberal-outrage game in which none of the blame is hers.
If it’s my kid, I back the teacher. And it actually happened to my white, middle-class daughter — not being thrown across the floor, but physical intervention that caused a minor injury over a discipline problem — and I actually did back the teacher. So yes, I put my money where my mouth is on this.
And I call complete bullshit on the notion that a black girl dressed like the one at the link would have been assaulted. Knee-jerk liberalism is no prettier than knee-jerk conservatism.
That part breaks my heart, LG. That poor girl.
During my daughter’s high school years she had two friends who lost parents. One girl lost her mother, the boy lost his father. Both became disruptive in class. Hardly surprising. The difference is the school handled those situations with a lot of leeway given the circumstances – as they should. Guess this poor girl didn’t deserve this sort of compassion.
Yep, the teacher and administrator should go. I wouldn’t want either of them in a position of authority. First, they are incompetent. Second, they stood by while Officer Fields assaulted that poor girl. He should not only be fired, he should be arrested.
I’ll say it again, if this is the punishment for a cell phone (which she put away, according to reports) then everyone is okay with this punishment across the board. Right?
We’re far beyond “appropriate”, Geezer. This was assault.
Not when it’s a police officer arresting someone, it’s not.
why was she even being arrested? why wasn’t the school providing special attention to a recently orphaned student?
What “crime” was he arresting her for?
Good question, LG and Ben.
Obviously none of you have spent 5 minutes on youtube watching students attacking teachers and security guards in schools.
Regardless of race, a certain segment of society does not respect authority. And that can include suburban middle class parents who come in and complain to schools about how their little Johnny/Jenny Angel “would never do such a thing and how dare you suggest otherwise.”
Police brutality is a huge problem in this country. The officers actions were excessive. Police spend very little time on deescalating situations. This has been true for decades.
The crime of disrupting a school, believe it or not. It was enacted specifically so this kind of behavior would be criminal.
When you criminalize adolescent bad behavior, this is what you get. This escalated because the cop is there in the first place. Now the girl will have a criminal record, which is the first weld in the school-to-prison pipeline.
But you’re asking me to get outraged at THIS particular incident, which I just can’t do. I feel bad for the girl, I think the system has failed her badly, but I refuse to play the outrage game. There are kids being shot to death by cops on a regular basis, so I’m not going to posture over this (relatively) minor incident.
Personally, I spent 9 years in the classroom as an educator. Wanna whip out your resume and compare?
In the teacher’s defense….Students checking phones was an intolerable distraction for a mediocre teacher like me. I had to hold a firm line against phone checking, or I’d have probably gone nuts and dumped someone out of their chair and dragged them across the floor.
If the cop was arresting her, it was probably for failure to obey a police officer and resisting arrest.
Because cops can do that. They did it here in Rehoboth a few years back. Cop told kids to do something, kids didn’t do it fast enough, words were exchanged, kids get his ass beat and charged with failure to obey a police officer and resisting arrest. For sitting in a pavilion on the boardwalk.
Oh wow. Are you really saying that because kids are being shot that this incident doesn’t matter? That sounds like people who discount police brutality by saying, “What about black on black crime?”
And I sincerely doubt that if this had been your daughter in this video that you’d have backed the adults in charge. This was beyond excessive. It. Was Assault.
@SussexAnon, please provide all those YouTube videos of suburban, middle class kids in similar situations. There must be a lot of them, right?
“Regardless of race, a certain segment of society does not respect authority. And that can include suburban middle class parents who come in and complain to schools about how their little Johnny/Jenny Angel “would never do such a thing and how dare you suggest otherwise.”
Did you miss this part of my post Pandora?
Nope, just looking for evidence of your YouTube claim. That must exist, right? I mean, if this happens across the board…
My youtube claim is there are youtube videos of students attacking teachers. I hold the opinion that these attacks are caused by a lack of respect for authority. Full stop.
I made no mention of race. You keep bringing it up. I see a student attacking a teacher and I see an asshole. Not a black, white, asian or hispanic asshole. Just an asshole.
“And I sincerely doubt that if this had been your daughter in this video that you’d have backed the adults in charge. This was beyond excessive. It. Was Assault. ”
No. It. Wasn’t. And I really don’t give a fuck what you think I’d do if it were my daughter. When she was in the third grade a teacher twisted her lip for talking back, hard enough that it broke a blood vessel. I backed the teacher.
Are you trying to argue this emotionally instead of intelligently? If so, you’re doing a great job so far. Absurd analogies? Check. Calling out the motives of others? Check.
“Are you really saying that because kids are being shot that this incident doesn’t matter?”
No, I’m “really” saying what I really said. I’m not outraged. We’re arguing because while I think it was wrong, I’m not outraged. You’re a parody of a liberal.
Hey, sport. You were the one who brought up your daughter, not me. Nice try at making me the emotional one. You wanna take back your emotional example, fine by me.
SA, what have these authority figures done to earn the respect you think they deserve? Cops don’t deserve any respect simply because they are cops. They dont get to be in charge just because they are armed. I hold that these attacks are because of a lack of respect for the law (by cops) and a lack of respect for life (by cops)
Geezer, just because you are ok with you daughter being physically assaulted for talking, doesn’t make it ok.
Violence begets violence. Always
Also, in this case, the student… an adolescent, has just experienced emotional trauma. Her behavior is totally excusable in that light. but no…. a black girl is getting uppity. better body slam her to teach her a lesson, right?
“I hold the opinion that these attacks are caused by a lack of respect for authority. Full stop.”
Well, bud, you didn’t quote-full stop-unquote up there in your first comment. You said “certain segment of society places no respect whatsoever on teachers security officers, or police.” To which segment are you referring? Don’t fucking side-step it now you fucking coward. Which segment? Who? Explain yourself.
Police don’t deserves our respect. Are all cops monsters? No they are not. The institution is racist and there are way too many armed bullies with badges who think violence and screaming help establish control of a situation. They don’t. Cops think their job is more dangerous than it is. Cops think they are at war out there. They aren’t. They are suppose to be our partners in civil security.
This officer assaulted a kid. It’s fucking disgusting. And to even begin to attempt to rationalize it or excuse it is also fucking disgusting. So yeah the theme of the post is 100% accurate.
There is a great deal of fault to go all around, on this issue.
Teacher, Administration, guidance counselor, the Officer and the young lady.
I think the Officer is there, to uphold the law and make it a safer environment to learn. Not to handle the teachers problems.
All others should have been aware, of the young lady’s emotional situation.
The Officer went too far, but I don’t have all the information.
This is a whole other topic; but it seems more and more that cell phones are causing a disruption in the classroom. Just my 2 cents.
If they didn’t have a cell phone recording it, we never would have known it happened.
Yeah, before cell phones kids never misbehaved or disrupted a class. They never made paper airplanes, spitballs, made disruptive noises, threw pencils up into the dropped ceiling to see if they would stick, etc.. You’re right, Anonymous, the behavior exhibited by the 16 year old girl never happened before.
Pandora….I am totally okay with this and loved every second of the suspiciously clipped video. I loved the full video even more.
Maybe a few more vicious takedowns will spread the word. Do what you’re fahhking told and shut your fahhking mouths.
Next!
Mate, you’re embarrassing yourself & you’re embarrassing your family.
DG, I’m not sure you understand how this works, but thanks for thinking of me!
No, I get it.
Not likely.
Private schools have a zero tolerance for cell phones. So should public schools.
In the 14 years I went to school, not once did I see a girl cause real problems in a classroom. Not once. There were some cases of boys mis behaving and challenging the teachers authority, but not that many. Back then, most kids lived with a mom and dad, and corporal punishement was as allowed at school. Now, for 50 years, liberals have been finding every way possible to promote single or no parent homes. I will bet you any amount of money that this little princess does not live with her mom and dad. If she did, she would never have been allowed to behave like that by her parents
“Yeah, before cell phones kids never misbehaved or disrupted a class. They never made paper airplanes, spitballs, made disruptive noises, threw pencils up into the dropped ceiling to see if they would stick, etc.”
And they definitely never threw a lit firecracker into the shop exhaust intake…
I said a girl never caused a major classroom disrution during my 14 YEARS of school
This was interesting:
http://q13fox.com/2015/10/29/mans-facebook-post-about-traffic-stop-goes-viral/
Rusty, did you learn to read in your 14 years in elementary school? Her mother died. Pandora, your argument has to be emotional, you know, because you’re a female. It is well known that teenagers rebel – adults recognize this aa a perfectly appropriate developmental process. Professionals (teachers, police, etc.) should recognize the special needs of a child very recently orphaned and be trained to deal with those needs. And lastly, it is never going to be right to be that violent and unhinged with a child, or adult for that matter.
@RD “I said a girl never caused a major classroom disrution during my 14 YEARS of school”
Did you go to an all boy’s school??
14 years? So… Tell us which grades you needed to repeat.
But if you feel no empathy for this girl who just lost her mother and her grandmother, there is something seriously wrong with you. The school really should have has some sort of special concern or program for her to help her get past her grieving.
And she didn’t cause a major commotion. How can you say that silent defiance is a “major commotion”???
I’ve seen major commotions, and a defiant silent girl is NOT a major commotion, and anyone who claims it is, is a total idiot.
The only person who caused a major commotion has been fired, and rightly so.
Anonymous, no one has ever claimed that every cop is bad, or that every black man/woman will be treated poorly/harassed/shot/killed when confronted by the police. That said, why do you think what you linked to is interesting? Personally, I think the word you were looking for was comforting, not interesting. I think that article made you very comfortable in your thinking.
I would be okay with him dumping her out of the chair toward him if she refused to get out. What he did was endanger her and went far beyond the minimum force required to get compliance. He endangered her and injured her for no reason. She was not resisting, she was not committing a crime, and she was no threat to anyone’s well being.
This happens because we don’t have proper discipline in the schools. She needed her bottom whacked not risk her neck broken. That is abuse.
Pandora:
You make it a white/black issue. The whole point was R-E-S-P-E-C-T. No matter what the color a person’s skin is!
Um… okay, Anonymous. Please provide links (like those in the link above) that show this happening to white people with the same frequency. And, yes, there are a few examples across the board, but it’s not as prevalent. But you know that. You are very comfortable in your privilege.
I was having a discussion and the person said, “The hardest thing when dealing with a problem is coming up with solutions.” I replied, “No, the hardest thing is getting people invested in the status quo to admit there is a problem.” You prove my point.
I think that if we take the idea that an affront to someone’s ego through disrespect justifies assault, we have devolved to the same level as the gangs.
“She needed her bottom whacked not risk her neck broken. That is abuse.”
RD volunteers to spank high school girls.
I hate knee jerk liberal reaction like happened when the teacher was taking a child to the office and the child kicked his legs out and made the teacher drag him. The teacher was mean. No the child was a brat and needed to go the office. Throwing people on their back and head onto the floor than dragging them is assault when they are not posing any threat whatsoever. As much as I hate to agree with Pandora, and I do, she is right. Let her enjoy it. It doesn’t happen much.
I’ve said this before but I guess I need to say it again. The idea that responsibility in encounters with the police is 50% on the police and 50% on the citizen is incorrect. Especially in this case when the citizen is a teenage girl sitting completely passively, quietly and unarmed. If you can’t figure out how to deal with a recalcitrant kid without resorting to a fucking hip toss body slam you have more problems than I can catalogue here.
All this victim blaming shit is silly. You know who says “she was asking for it?”… Bullies, domestic abusers and police brutality apologists. It’s easy to be an apologist for this vile violence when there’s basically a zero chance it’ll every coming raining down on your cranium.
Let’s give credit where it’s properly due:
Republican David says:
October 30, 2015 at 9:39 am
I think that if we take the idea that an affront to someone’s ego through disrespect justifies assault, we have devolved to the same level as the gangs.
…and I think that’s the problem. We may have indeed devolved to this level.
our society is obsessed with discipline. You decry “knee-jerk liberalism” but you cant WAIT to REACT to a “brat” with punishment.
RD… please comment on this fact and this fact alone… the young girl’s (btw, kids her age do not have a fully formed frontal lobe… which helps control emotions and behavior) mother had just died.
Are you saying that if you lost a parent at her age, you would still give a shit about the authority of a teacher who has likely already given up on you? or a cop that represents a system that wrote you off at birth? No on is interested in your philosophies on punishment. I find it very interesting how the people praising a reactionary cop and a reactionary system leave out the details of what may have put this young lady in a (totally understandable) bad mood. Im a full grown man…. if I’m grieving and dealing with a loss in the family, I would not be able to care less about the wishes of a power hungry, gun-wielding blow hard who’s highest achievement in life is policing teenagers.
First, I’m so sorry for your loss, Ben. If you need anything…
Second, I can’t find where it says her mother died. I know she was (recently?) placed in foster care, so that’s traumatic enough.
Third, thank you, David. I’ll cherish this moment. 😉
Fourth, Dorian is correct. “The idea that responsibility in encounters with the police is 50% on the police and 50% on the citizen is incorrect.”
Fifth, Anonymous is still a tool. The idea that this is about respect – which, btw, the police aren’t owed – is complete BS. It’s nice if it happens, but it isn’t required for them to do their job professionally. Don’t forget, I’m a cop’s kid. I know a lot about this. I lived it. A police officer’s first job is to diffuse/deescalate a situation, if possible. Their job isn’t to escalate the situation and become part of the problem/story. That’s bad policing. Watch the video. Fields takes the time to remove her laptop from her desk. He knew he was going to get physical.
Sixth, I have never in my life worried about something like this happening to my daughter. Not. Once. Know why? Because it would never happen to my white daughter. That is my privilege.
Quick question: Who wants their kids to be governed by the Geezer, SussexAnon or Rusty Gils police mentality in school? The same “zero tolerance” mind set that has worked so well to pack prisons and ruin lives applied to children. Also note how many ex teachers there are posting, teaching remains a vital yet unpopular profession. As for phones perhaps we can agree they should not be allowed in class and collected at the door. Perhaps.
real quick, didnt mean to mislead.. I said “if” I had suffered a loss. thankfully, i have not recently. I was more posing a hypothetical. Dont wanna draw any bad karma.
I’ll answer that question, bamboozer. I don’t want anyone with that mindset near my kids, or me. If an adult’s response is to go from 0 to nuclear then that person shouldn’t be a cop or around kids.
I mean, come on. Are people really saying that a trained law enforcement officer has the right to assault someone for being rude to them, for dissing them? Are people saying that if a person hurts an officer’s feelings then it’s open season? FYI: Being insulted is part of the job. Not kidding. It is flippin’ part of the job. If a cop can’t handle that he/she has no business being in this line of work. They aren’t cut out for it.
We really need to retrain our law enforcement and institute a more rigorous screening process. This guy couldn’t handle a 16 year old girl passively resisting his orders. He should have never been on the force.
I don’t agree with what the Officer did. It’s respect for everyone. The teachers, the student, everyone.
If the student just got up and walked out.
If the Teacher, respected what the student was going through personally.
The Officer should be trained in these situations and hopefully they are.
Basic principle of respect for others, Pandora.
“It would never happen to my white daughter. That is my privilege.”
You. Are. Wrong. It could have happened to your white daughter. Your privilege isn’t that it wouldn’t, it’s that you can’t imagine it.
I went to a white, middle-class high school, and this (not including the chair, but having hands put upon them with force by teachers) happened to plenty of my white, entitled classmates. It wasn’t that long ago.
Nope. Not my experience at all, Geezer. Corporal punishment was gone. Guess you’re older than me.
And while anything is possible, the reality is that my white, upper middle-class daughter would ever face this is ridiculous. It’s right up there with my worrying about a terrorist attack happening in my neighborhood.
And Anonymous would take a discussion about the Holocaust and say, it’s not about the Jews, all lives matter.
Yeah, Geezer may indeed closely resemble the sobriquet. Did you attend school in the 19th century?
I heard this personal story long after the fact, but my parents were interested in sending us (my younger brothers and me) to Independence School in Pike Creek c. 1986. They required parents to sign a document allowing for corporal punishment (paddling I believe it was).
Now my pop had a great deal of old-school vibe in him if you catch my meaning. But even he refused to sign. Non-starter. Absurd. Even nearly 30 years ago. Nobody had that right but him. He used it very, very sparingly and he wasn’t signing away the right either.
The idea that a white kid (or a white person in general) is just as likely to take one in the coconut from the cops as a black person is risible and ridiculous. Dumb even at this point. Perhaps 10 years ago we could pretend it was true, but in the age of the viral video, no dice. No privileged white kid’s getting tossed around like a bean bag. My pop would have had this guy’s badge and owned his home in six months time. Maybe even a lien on future earnings after the civil suit settlement.
Once a nun slapped my brother on his back in like the 4th grade and that afternoon my father dressed down the principal so severely that my mom heard it down the hall. Rumor was the principal shit in his pants.
Remember the Dave Chappelle bit with his white friend Chip? That had it about right…
The simple fact is that the officer was wrong. If you stick to the topic of the thread, that is all that needs to be said.
I think the officer should have backed off when met with resistance and let school administration deal with the issue. The student committed no crime and the officer’s intervention was not required or warranted, much less the use of excessive force. The police department took the appropriate action in regards to the officer. There really is no debate or discussion necessary.
Should there be another thread to debate response to rejection of authority or school policies? I think so, as there would be more fruitful discussion on how those in authority should respond.
The problem we have is the inevitable degradation of a thread like this one into general comments on societal ills. In short, the title of the thread is a challenge which clearly some fools accepted, leaving one to wonder why when it’s intuitively obvious that the officer was wrong.
Since we don’t have a different thread, I will say that I believe that the common good (the rest of the students in the class) is best served by removing the student from the class, at least temporarily, but perhaps permanently and if the student won’t leave the class, then the class should have left the student. I would also set up an appointment with the parents to decide whether the student needs to be in that school. The common good (those who are there to learn) cannot be held hostage to the few. Besides the 3 Rs, schools also are an environment where social learning takes place which teaches us how to live in a society that sometimes necessitates the subordination of our individual wants and needs for the good of all. In summary, empathy works both ways.
@Dave
This: “The problem we have is the inevitable degradation of a thread like this one into general comments on societal ills. In short, the title of the thread is a challenge which clearly some fools accepted, leaving one to wonder why when it’s intuitively obvious that the officer was wrong.”
Some people are very invested in making excuses for this officer. Why? That’s the post that needs to be written, because not one person here agreeing with me thinks that students should be allowed to disrupt the classroom. (Yeah, I know you get that.)
Well, I suppose this explains why this generation needs trigger warnings. I graduated in ’73, and nobody had ever thought of putting cops in school buildings at that point, except in city (Philadelphia) schools in which teachers were actually being stabbed. So teachers (male ones) did the job themselves. Back then, the only part that would have generated this much outrage was that the student was female, and getting your desk tipped was something that the 9th graders did to the 7th graders routinely. Perhaps that’s why I think the liberal hand-wringing over her “injuries” is laughable.
I do want to address the criticism of my position that other incidents, but not this one, are worthy of my outrage. I’m not changing the subject, as you allege — this is the same subject at a different point on the scale. So yes, while this girl has a valid complaint, I’m reserving my outrage for the video I saw this morning of a school cop punching a student in the head, or the ones in which cops shoot people who are “driving at them” after the car has already passed. Your mileage clearly varies.
Now see, I’m upset about all those incidents. You, for some reason, have labeled this incident as not being worthy of your outrage. Why is that? Why is this incident different? Why is it not worthy of your outrage?
Pandora: People have said multiple times that the actions of the Officer was wrong.
We don’t have all the answers in this incident, but he was out of line.
“Now see, I’m upset about all those incidents. You, for some reason, have labeled this incident as not being worthy of your outrage. Why is that? Why is this incident different? Why is it not worthy of your outrage?”
Sounds like you have a great deal of anger, Pandora.
Because I don’t buy into the victimization culture, that’s why. If you want to engage in civil disobedience, getting arrested is part of the process. I really don’t care if the handcuffs are chafing your wrists.
Actually, people have said, “The officer was wrong, but…”
See the difference?
And I am angry about this sort of behavior. The question is… why aren’t you? Face it, you’re one of those “All lives matter” and “I’m a humanist, not a feminist” sort of guys. You diminish by expanding.
The fact that other recent incidents are more severe doesn’t make this particular one less outrageous.
The fact that the guidelines of socially acceptable violence in Nixonian American is different than the present day is progress we should celebrate not a standard we should continue to apply.
Holy crap, Geezer! This wasn’t a victim culture issue. She was a victim. But you keep telling us what should outrage us. You obviously have some sort of standard. Perhaps you can lay out the criteria?
Pandora, I think the answer is MYSOGYNY. You’re a female vociferously defending a female.
“you keep telling us what should outrage us.”
No, I keep telling you what doesn’t outrage me. I don’t share your outrage, and my sympathy for the girl is confined to her personal situation; I find her behavior here indefensible. My question is why you feel the need to inform me that I’m wrong over a matter of opinion. I’m obviously in the minority here, but it’s not going to change my mind.
I also find it rather incredible that you can’t differentiate between being shot for doing nothing and being humiliated for being disobedient.
My standard is that when you make an issue of fighting authority, you should expect authority to fight back. I have sympathy for the girl’s personal problems, but not for her behavior or the resulting “assault” on her person.
No, I am not an “all lives matter” kind of guy. I am, however, an actions have consequences kind of guy.
When people are shot over skittles, it’s an overreaction. When someone disobeys an authority as this girl did, the authorities react as this one did.
This is not the campus cop spraying sit-in protesters with pepper spray. This is not a cop shooting a 12-year-old with a toy gun. This is not a man in a Wal-Mart being shot for holding a gun. This is a teen-ager with an attitude getting it adjusted.
Those who can’t tell the difference are free to continue with their myopic lives.
AQC: You think I’d be upset if the victim were male? What a stupid comment.
Did you just reduce this incident to the girl being humiliated? Really?
And yeah, AQC, I’m feeling that as well. Violence is violence, but for some reason what happened to this girl doesn’t reach some sort of, yet undefined, standard. Her behavior, passively sitting in a chair refusing to move, is indefensible, a victimization culture. Just a humiliation that doesn’t compare to a school cop punching a student in the head. Me? I think both are completely out of line.
Yes, humiliated. She got a rug burn. Boo-hoo. It’s not that it “doesn’t compare,” it’s that it compares unfavorably. If you can’t tell the difference, it’s your problem, not mine.
Again, so you think I’m okay with treating a girl that way, but not a boy? Based on what? Female intuition?
This, by the way, is why I didn’t want my kids in school with your kids. In my kids’ school, the girl, not the cop, was out of line, and that environment is what I preferred.
Let’s try this one: What do you think will happen to that girl when she tries that with her boss? When she gets fired and refuses to leave?
First, the “All lives matter” was directed at Anonymous.
Second, this: “This is not the campus cop spraying sit-in protesters with pepper spray. This is not a cop shooting a 12-year-old with a toy gun. This is not a man in a Wal-Mart being shot for holding a gun. This is a teen-ager with an attitude getting it adjusted.” are all versions of the exact same problem. But diminishing it by saying she needed an attitude adjustment is very telling. I’m having a hard time believing you really believe this. I think you picked a side early and now won’t back down. That’s not me insulting you. It’s me being completely mystified, given your past comments, over your stance on this.
FYI: I’ve written about Tamir Rice, Trayvon Martin, John Crawford, etc. and the responses are quite similar. For some reason, while everyone isn’t happy with the cop’s behavior, this act was justified. That’s a big problem.
Oooh, are you getting all “emotional” again, Geezer? I thought you only argued intellectually. What a joke.
What did I say that was emotional? You’re projecting. You can’t tell the difference, while I see one. Why does that upset you so? Too many female hormones?
Just for the record, I am a misogynist. But I also don’t like men, so don’t take it so personally.
The student certainly was a victim. However, I also find her behavior indefensible and in that context she was an instigator or perpetrator. Can’t a person be both? Does being one diminish or negate the other? Does it make her any less of a victim that she refused legitimate authority? I don’t think so. But it also shouldn’t negate the fact that simultaneously she was wrong. I would hope that we are sophisticated enough to have nuanced reactions based on context that recognizes she was a victim without giving her a pass on refusal to comply with legitimate authority.
I know you have written about all those cases. Perhaps you think there’s a line running from this girl to Michael Brown, and you may well be right.
Meanwhile, I believe that this is exactly the kind of case that gets liberals labeled as hand-wringing babies. I object to people being shot. I object to people being beaten. But if Michael Brown just got tuned up for smarting off to a cop, I wouldn’t be marching in the streets for him.
The world in which you resist authority and suffer no physical consequences does not exist.
Your mom and grandmother die, you get placed into foster care, have to show up for school act out, get slammed by a police officer with a nick name of “The Hulk”
and people still blame you for your actions. A 15 year old kid.
Go suck a bag of dicks if you think this girl in anyway shape or form should have done anything differently and this outcome is her fault in any way.
that’s called misanthropy (disliking everyone).
Also, being “tuned up for smarting off to a police officer” is something some sort of police-state loving fascist would say. People who carry guns and have a license to kill don’t also get to be groveled to. If a cop is so thin-skinned that they have to beat on someone who doesn’t kiss their feet, they should lose their job and find one more suitable for a whiny little baby. Like talk-radio host.
No, it’s what someone who has had plenty of interaction with the police would say. To Dave’s point, Michael Brown was, according to the varying accounts, a complete asshole the day he died. He didn’t deserve to die, but he didn’t have to act like an asshole, either. My objection isn’t to his interaction with police, it was to the fatal nature of it.
Don Viti: If anyone knows how to suck a bag of dicks, it’s you. I still think she should have gone to the principal’s office when told to do so. Why shouldn’t she have?
I was just quoting your standard from above, Geezer. Try and keep up with your insults. And I’d appreciate you not citing my children in your emotional response. Sorry I got under your skin, but deal with me, not my kids.
Sorry, Dave, but there are degrees. If a kid refuses to get out of a chair and a cop flips her on her head and throws her across the room the first offense (hers) is overshadowed by his over the top behavior. If a kid called the teacher a name and the teacher beat the kid senseless we would focus on the teacher’s actions – over-reaction. If the teacher had disciplined the kid without violence then the name calling would be the issue. Ex-Officer Fields made his behavior the issue. That’s what became the outrage. Unless you think teenagers acting out is unheard of? Her actions demonstrated disobedience, his actions demonstrated assault.
It wasn’t an emotional response, and I was dealing with you. I don’t know your kids. I didn’t want my kids going to school with kids whose parents were hand-wringers like you, because those schools were run by people in constant fear of being sued. It led to a chaotic atmosphere unsuitable for education.
Also, we clearly have different views of how violent this encounter was.
Care to answer the question about how this would play out in the workplace this girl will someday occupy? Maybe the worry is misplaced. I’m sure that after the lawsuit payday she’ll never have to work.
Oh sure. Everyone’s teenage self is who they are in the adult workforce. What a BS defense. Guess she really needed to be taught the lesson she was taught. Good thing it wasn’t that violent, in your opinion.
Donviti: Could the girl have done anything differently, to change the outcome of this terrible situation?
Not get placed in foster care. clearly it was all her fault.
I should just let DV take this question down because this sounds like a question asked of a domestic abuse or a rape victim or a black person. Still waiting for those links of white people being treated like this, anonymous. Here’s the link to my question.
anonymous, to help you out…. I just googled “white people beaten by cops” you can find one or 2 videos, but by-and-large, most of the results gave me statistics about how it’s mostly black people… and really, mostly black young people… who are assaulted by ego-maniacal killers. Sorry, I tried.
@Pandora,
If by “overshadowed” you mean the greater issue in this case, I agree. If you meant “dismissing” the student’s rejection of authority, then I would disagree.
While Geezer’s larger point about rejection of legitimate authority and its consequences ought to be discussed, I don’t think it can ever be because it is always overshadowed by the abhorrent consequences which sucks all the oxygen necessary to have such a discussion. This is not the time to have that discussion. Unfortunately, it seems like there never is a time to have it because the next outrage comes all too soon.
Not really “next outrage” more like “next brutality”
We can’t have the discussion due to the behavior of those in positions of authority and their behavior. That’s what overshadows things.
Ben/Pandora: Simple question and I’ve already agreed that the Officer and others were out of line and should be held accountable.
Shorter Anonymous: “I got nothing – even tho I posted that link above that I deemed interesting“. Gotta love the courage of his convictions.
Care to answer the question about how this would play out in the workplace this girl will someday occupy?
Apples and oranges. She is supposed to be in school and is a minor, with some entitlement to protection in that space. Her teenaged “defiance of authority” didn’t warrant the reaction it got from a grownup. In a workplace, she would be a grownup and in that place (in most places) there at the will of her employer. She might sue for being removed from that workplace, but she wouldn’t get far.
A Short History of Cops Terrorizing Students
I can’t believe I agree with Geezer on this, but I do.