Take Them Out.
White Conservative Terrorists have attacked a federal building in Oregon and are illegally occupying it. Why?
They’re apparently upset at the conviction and upcoming jail sentences of a couple of fellow domestic terrorists for arson. They believe that the federal government has no constitutional authority to own land, that national parks are essentially illegal, and that men like them have a God-given right to mine, log and otherwise destroy whatever forest land they want.
You want a more serious and non-biased explanation? Fine:
Armed protesters took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge south of Burns on Saturday after participating in a peaceful rally over the prison sentences of local ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond. The Hammonds were convicted of arson three years ago for fires that burned on federal land in 2001 and 2006. Though they served their original sentences for the conviction — Dwight serving three months, Steven serving one year — an appellate judge ruled in October that the terms were too short under federal minimum sentencing laws. Both men were ordered back to prison for four years each. They have said they plan to turn themselves in Monday.
The decision to send the man back to prison generated controversy and is part of a decades-long dispute between some Westerners and the federal government over the use of public lands. Brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy are among those occupying the refuge. Their father, Cliven Bundy, was involved in a 2014 standoff with the government over grazing rights in Nevada.
Ryan Bundy told The Associated Press Sunday he hopes to turn the land over to local authorities so people can use it free of federal oversight. He said he hopes the takeover of the property will prompt others to take action across the country to seize local control of federally managed land. Ammon Bundy has previously called on members of militia groups to take a stand with those at the refuge.
On Sunday afternoon, several pickup trucks blocked the entrance to the refuge and armed men wearing camouflage and winter gear used radios to alert those at the refuge buildings when reporters were allowed onto the property.
A small flock of pheasants wandered across the refuge driveway, scattering as men driving utility vehicles traversed the property. Ryan Bundy declined to say how many people were at the site.
“The end goal here is that we are here to restore the rights to the people here so that they can use the land and resources. All of them,” Bundy said. That means ranchers can graze their cattle on the land, miners can use their mineral rights, loggers can cut trees and hunters and fishers can recreate, he said.
So the undisputed facts are that the terrorists have now illegally trespassed onto property that they do not own and have no claim to. I want these white conservative terrorists to be treated as with they were African Americans. I want these white conservative terrorists to be treated as if they were ISIS. They are to surrender to federal and/or local authorities immediately and evacuate the refuge forthwith. Any provocation shall be met with deadly force, and to be sure, a provocation is pointing a gun at anyone. Failure to comply shall eventually lead to the recapture of the refuge by federal and/or local authorities, during which time all terrorists shall be either killed or incapacitated.
I’d much rather see them starved out so they can stand trial.
Let’s just put a secure fence around the building. Presto! They’re in jail! 😉
As soon as one of these “heroes” gets an ouchy-boo-boo, they will be crawling for EMTs or some other form of assistance.
Not worth an assault. Cut access roads, power, and communications and forget about them.
they clearly want this to be a Waco situation. I say set up cameras all around their “compound” and live stream all their activities 24/7. Play really loud music at them (my vote is for Klezmer-Techno) Hold Rainbow Gatherings just out of Second Amendment range…. the works.
Make it a game to see how many embarrassing Gifs can be generated from their bumbling. of course, as they leave in search of pork rinds and Bud-lite, arrest their traitorous asses…. but until then, this can be some pretty decent entertainment.
According to NBC news, these guys are merely protesters, not terrorists. They’ll probably get a misdemeanor and an apology.
Twitter is calling them #YallQueda. Which is completely hilarious. I commented elsewhere that these terrorists should meet the business end of the National Guard soonest.
I wanted them treated like Tamir Rice.
Why do you want these idiots martyred? I want them to live long lives with endless reminders of what morons everyone thinks they are. I want to read a story 10 years from now about how they cant find jobs and are forced to take SNAP benefits in order to feed themselves. I want to see a FoX news special trying to paint them as sympathetic figures who’s lives were ruined by “the backlash” of what they did. killing them A) is state sponsored killing, something I think is wrong in all cases and B) will create more terrorists (just like it does with other kinds of terrorists)
I want them to even fail at a suicide attempt because their entire existence becomes a punchline, but they cant even kill themselves properly. I want them to become the most famous Bundys and the mental image everyone gets is a poo-covered pig in overalls and a straw hat.
#VanillaISIS
LMAO. the internet is great.
Drone-delivered tear gas.
I’m with Ben. No killing.
Altho… it would be interesting to test all this 2nd Amendment, stand up to tyranny nonsense ammosexuals always spout. They wouldn’t last two minutes.
I am not advocating their killing. I am advocating the recapture of their occupied land. And during that process, if the terrorists attempt to resist in any fashion, including raising or using any of their weapons, they should be neutralized by any means necessary.
I am very sad to see the attitudes here. Clearly none of you has a clue about what has been going on in the west, for a very long time, by the way. These guys are protestors. Period. Just like a lot of people of my generation were during the Vietnam War. I’m from California, and back in my geologist days spent a lot of time out in the hinterlands of Nevada and other points western. I talked to quite a few ranchers, too, as well as some Navajo friends from the Big Rez.
The things done by Federal agencies in these areas haven’t been all bad. But they have also run roughshod over many of the ranchers and others, and the way they go about things has often been extremely arrogant and high-handed. The problems aren’t so much with the laws, but mostly over administrative codes that are then enforced in a really punitive way. And ranchers typically don’t have the resources to fight the agencies the way big corporations do every day. Plus, from what I’ve heard and even seen myself when working on a few projects, while some of the agency people are good folks, there are also a lot of power-hungry bureaucrats who will run over anyone to make a name for themselves, to make an example, or to demonstrate their power. Or just because.
You can read Edward Abbey to get a feel for how some of the folks in the west feel about how the feds have acted, and that goes back decades. It hasn’t gotten better. These people as a whole have some very legitimate gripes.
And don’t call them terrorists! They are protesters. My fear is that there are a few yahoos in their midst that do want to cause something terrible. The majority just want the abusive government treatment to stop. Yeah, their rhetoric is over the top. But so was ours when we protested the Vietnam war, But we got our message out. The largely captive press, these days, never tells us here in the east what has really gone on.
So calm down and think about this, and don’t just read the major media on this. Go out there and spend some time talking to people in the ’empty quarter’ on your next vacation. Heck, read Edward Abbey – Monkey Wrench Gang is highly entertaining.
I don’t like this situation either, but I would never in a billion years call these guys terrorists.
Long live George Washington Hayduke
“These people as a whole have some very legitimate gripes.”
Fuck them. Black Lives Matter protesters have far more legitimate gripes. These asswipes can get in line.
Just learned about the 5 year mandatory minimums given the convicted ranchers….5 years for starting fires. Sounds like these guys have a legit reason to protest. Work out a peaceful resolution for all.
Arson so they could poach for deer. Treason and terrorism
These “militia” fuckwits who show up to get on TV are terrorists and professional pains in the ass. The actual rancher’s don’t want or need their “help.”
As for ranchers that want free use of public land – fuck them. They are stealing.
@ Delaware Dem “I wanted them treated like Tamir Rice.”
@ Geezer “Drone-delivered tear gas.”These are stupid comments.
@Pandora “Let’s just put a secure fence around the building. Presto! They’re in jail!”
Boy, if these statements were made during the Ferguson riots, the 3 of you would be up in arms. Very poor choice of words!!!
Peaceful protests are fine, if their within the law.
The comparison fails because these white terrorists have stated that they are there to provoke an armed confrontation with the Federal authorities. That is not protest. That’s treason.
And there isn’t a fine line between the two. There is a big, fat, obvious line.
Even Ted Cruz, of all people, can see that this isn’t constitutionally protected free speech:
“Every one of us has a constitutional right to protest, to speak our minds. But we don’t have a constitutional right to use force and violence and to threaten force and violence on others. And so it is our hope that the protesters there will stand down peaceably, that there will not be a violent confrontation,”
They have guns and are threatening to use them. It is not a peaceful protest. All assertions that is a peaceful protest are invalid because they have guns and have threatened to use them if their politically driven motives are not met. That is the actual definition of “terroristic threat” It is an armed occupation. You wanna talk about the Vietnam War? See Weather Underground.
btw, Pandora… ammosexual = new favorite word of 2016 so far.
To all you saying this is a peaceful protest: explain why they are armed then. Explain why it is necessary for them to say they are willing to kill or be killed. Explain why they have illegally seized property that does not belong to them.
This is not a peaceful protest.
BUT… I will grant you that the mandatory minimum sentence for arson that seems to be the spark for this seems to be unfair at first glance.
THEREFORE, if the terrorist surrender immediately and without incident (which means the laying down of their arms), they can continue to peacefully protest at an appropriate location, like at a federal courthouse or city hall in the nearest town.
Tear gas was used repeatedly at the Ferguson protests. What’s wrong with it?
WRONG. This is criminal activity that can’t simply be forgiven. It has to be added to the charges.
Oh wait… they are white. Never mind.
“Sounds like these guys have a legit reason to protest.”
No, the people who got 5 years — and surrendered to authorities while disparaging the protesters — have a legitimate gripe. The fuckwits on hand don’t.
I have no time or sympathy for stupid fucks who don’t understand our system of government.
I also would like to address the bass-ackwards invocation of Edward Abbey here. Abbey was against, not for, people using public lands for private gain. “Karen” has her head up her ass.
God forbid we ever accuse white guys of being terrorists – even though their actions fit the definition to a t:
Their actions are politically motivated.
They have illegally taken over property.
They are heavily armed and have stated, quite clearly, that they are ready to kill or be killed for their cause.
This is NOT a protest. And who can tell me why these guys haven’t been treated like the Occupy (actual) protesters were, or why their protest didn’t come with rules like “you must always be walking” or “you can’t block the doorway to businesses on a public street”? Not saying they should be treated violently, just pointing out there are definitely two Americas.
Add to this that the guys they are committing terrorism for don’t want anything to do with them. How about the fact that the town is closing schools due to safety concerns? Or the way law enforcement officers are concerned for their families due to threats made against them by these terrorists – one officer even sent his loved ones to another town. Protesters my ass.
The same Ted Cruz who is calling for them to peacefully stand down also has said he would never infringe on the Second Amendment, which is “the ultimate check against governmental tyranny.”
And Karen, we all object to some laws and governmental actions. What we’re told is to change the law, not grab a bunch of guns and seize property that we don’t own. Members of the Occupy movement were rounded up and tossed from their public spaces. Isn’t that the least of what should happen here?
“As for ranchers that want free use of public land – fuck them. They are stealing.”
That’s the crux of this. The rubric “federal” or “public” or some other term that implies a monolithic entity that is treading on the rights of the individual fails to recognize that those lands, that refuge, is your land and my land (From California, to the New York Island…). It’s not just their land it’s all of our land. The federal government has stewardship of it, but it is there for the public, not just for some rancher or miner or other yahoos that believe they and only they have an inalienable right to it.
It may be that the federal government controls too much of it. If so, that’s a debate and discussion that can be had, but to seize that or any facility by a group of cowboys or whatever they are (or want to be ) is to deny me my right to enjoyment of that land that I pay for.
And by the way, if it weren’t BLM, there probably would be no more range worth grazing. Even so – get the hell off my land.
P.S. And Jason is also spot on in calling it treason.
WHOA>>>>> WAIT A MINUTE!!!
If these guys where Native American Indians that took over a remote Federal property and held the Feds off for quite some time and were armed … how would they be treated
Oh yeah!!…. that already happened.. its was called Wounded Knee and Leonard Pelitier is still in jail for a crime they cant prove he committed.
Lets treat these guys like the Sioux and Cheyenne at Wounded Knee – what would Bundy and his terrorist anarchist ilk be treated differently – besides they are white??
for the record the Hammond dont even WANT the Bundy’s even talking for them – they have asked that only their attorney to do the talking.
The Hammond’s set the fire to cover up deer poaching – Cliven Bundy is a racist and a domestic terrorist and he and his sons owe MILLIONS to the US taxpayer in unpaid grazing fees. Those land were originally part of the Northern Paiute reservation. Talk about corporate welfare!!!
dont be fooled – these are not patriots – they are at best anarchists and at worst terrorists and thieves.
They should be handled as all terrorists and thieves are handled. And if they were black or Muslim?????
WOW – just WOW – we would not even be having this conversation – it would be simply wipe them off the face of the earth – done, end of story
just coz they are white cowboys we have to tip toe around them!!! talk about semantics!
Since Waco, the Government has tiptoed through these things. It is, as Josh Marshall said, white privlidge performance art.
If you doubt it, check out this whack jobs, “Good Bye video to his wife and kids” Hilarious!
This nut, Ritzheimer, and Bundy’s are trying to recapture some the of the standoff glory from a few years ago. I think the Government is playing to well. Let them stew and keep looking like the idiots that they are.
@Karen “These guys are protestors. Period. Just like a lot of people of my generation were during the Vietnam War. ”
The war in Vietnam was an abject moral abomination.
These guys are just takers. They already get the use of the land at a 93% discount, but that isn’t good enough for them.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/
Pandora’s right. Just put up a fence and call it a jail. And so they don’t starve, periodically drop in some of their cattle (from 1000 ft).
Del Dem is so FUNNY when he pretends to have a penis.
Josh Marshall wins the story, calling it “white privilege performance art.”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-agony-and-the-derp
“It takes a really special kind of idiot to try to protest the federal government while asking people to send you stuff through the USPS.”
Seriously. YallQueda is tweeting out that they need us to send them snacks in the mail.
The appropriate response, as is being found here, is ridicule not rifles.
A really good read for the road we could have taken as a society with regard to terrorism:
http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Targets-Dean-Ing/dp/0812519477
@Geezer, I think Karen is confused about which party is which when she’s talking about Edward Abbey’s writings and beliefs. She appears to have pegged the federal gov’t as the privatizing party seeking gains from land exploitation and these terrorist cowboys as the “public” free-use land owners. Bass ackwards is right. It’s the other way around, Karen. A small group of people want to seize land currently usable by anyone and managed by the federal government and reserve it exclusively for their own purposes. That’s the kind of crap Abbey hated. Everyone should be able to enjoy nature and ‘use’ its resources equally, shared among all. Maybe you should re-read Mr. Abbey’s works.
I’m just going to restate what others have said. Change these guys’ skin color to a shade of brown and they’d all be dead by now, and the ‘seige’ would be over and done.
I protested the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, which for my generation is our Vietnam. I didn’t arm myself, I didn’t invade any buildings. I didn’t try to stake a claim to something that I did not own. I made my stance against the wars known and put it in the faces of those who could do something about it.
These guys could learn a thing or two from some Vietnam protesters though, maybe then they’d actually have a clue about how to protest effectively, organize and send a message, without behaving like terrorists.
Edit: forgot my hashtags #YallQaeda #VanillaISIS
Here are my questions for these nit wits.
“You keep speaking in vague generalities about “defending” the constitution. What, specifically, do you mean by that? What parts of the constitution are you defending? The preamble? The part that establishes the three branches of the federal government? The amendments? Which amendments? Double jeopardy? Right to a speedy public trial? Be specific.”
They’re clearly not defending the parts of the constitution that define the 3 branches of government. They specifically seem to have a beef (HA!) with the judicial branch and its duty to interpret the constitutionality of laws, as there have been several SCOTUS opinions on the matters they claim to be ‘protesting’.
They also don’t seem to be defending Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2.
Perhaps they like their Constitution like religious extremists like their holy doctrines. Cherry picked to match their personal agendas.
” Change these guys’ skin color to a shade of brown and they’d all be dead by now”
No. It didn’t happen in Baltimore. It didn’t happen during the Ferguson riots. Now if your point is that the law enforcement response would have a been more confrontational, well perhaps (again except for Baltimore, Ferguson, et al).
It’s a double edged sword. If the feds take direct action, they risk creating an incident which could be a catalyst for other incidents. If they do nothing they appear weak, which in turn could promote more incidents. At this point the obvious best course is to do nothing except make them look silly – which they already do since they have issued pleas for socks and snacks (to be sent to a federal post office where they can pick up said socks and snacks. We can also thank God that our liberty is not in the hands of a “militia” so unprepared!
“The love of wilderness is more than a hunger for what is always beyong reach; it is also an expression of loyalty to the earth, the earth which bore us and sustains us, the only paradise we shall ever know, the only paradise we ever need, if only we had the eyes to see.”
― Edward Abbey
In neither Ferguson nor Baltimore did protesters take guns to their protests. I think the point is that they’d have been shot if they had.
The very dummies who forgot to bring snacks to their takeover, are now crying because they are getting more backlash than Black Lives Matter.
These guys must not watch much Fox News.
Don’t have time to fact check this but of interest if it is even partly true. A friend commented that she knows the SBA loan officer involved, so seems credible enough to share. http://usuncut.com/news/5-government-handouts-bundys-receive/