Tuesday Open Thread [5.3.16]
NATIONAL—CNN/ORC–Trump 49, Cruz 25, Kasich 19
NATIONAL—CNN/ORC–Clinton 51, Sanders 43
INDIANA—Gravis–Trump 44, Cruz 27, Kasich 9
CALIFORNIA—KABC/SurveyUSA–Trump 54, Cruz 20, Kasich 16
https://youtu.be/lvppFZB0v2c
…and now this
Carlie is trying to do to Cruz what she did to HP.
Shit happens. This clip is why Trump makes me nervous. [Added by Jason330]
This is a true open thread today, since today I am at an all day continuing legal education seminar, so I didn’t have time to read all the stories I need to. So have at it.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-apologizes-coal-country-over-out-business-comments-n566451
The one thing she has said this season that I liked the most…… turns out to have been a “misstatement”. How does she propose to “take action” against coal companies going out of business…. a bailout? Tax cuts? Gutting renewables? Is it time for the fan club to start saying “ya know? climate change isnt THAT big of a deal”
Bernie’s one issue, the social gains under real threat… none of that means a damn thing if we lose our habitat and now, the leader of the party that is supposed to be the one who will help, is trying to appeal to the single biggest contributor to pollution and climate change. Screw those companies. Screw the jobs. The needs of the planet matter more than everything else combined.
Or she’s just pandering to them so she doesn’t lose PA to Trump. If only a candidate had been firm in their statements and convictions. Too bad no one like that ran this year.
This truncated open thread is a outrage, and is yet another sign that American is getting raped by China.
Make Open Thread Great Again!
Build a wall around Del Dem so that he has to stay home and write for DL every day. Make Jason 330 pay for it.
We could easily have replaced a lot of the dirty coal jobs with a renewable transition plan and funding
We could have. But President Clinton wants to re-invigorate a dying industry.
I give it 2 months before the official party line is “ya know, wind turbines actually catch wind, thus prevent the earth from cooling down. They are the REAL contributor to global warming.”
“yet another sign that American is getting raped by China.”
America was asking for it.
Look at the CA number…the Republican nomination contest is over. He did it. The crazy son of a bitch actually did it.
So the search continues for a True Conservative to run in 2020.
We won’t make it that far. It’s time to start clearing out attic space.
I wonder if he will discuss the CEO enablers of rape
Best Carly Fiorina meme I’ve seen: Cruz now has the perfect running mate for when he needs someone to send out the announcements downsizing his failed campaign.
NYT: Bernie Sanders’s Gift to His Party
“The Democratic Party and Mrs. Clinton are better off for Mr. Sanders’s presence in this race. His criticism, as Winston Churchill might say, was not agreeable. But it called necessary attention to unhealthy developments in the Democratic Party, including its at-times obliviousness to the lingering economic pain of the middle class and the young, and its drift toward political caution over aspiration….”
“Unrealistic, short on details, the populist Mr. Sanders is a wildly gesticulating reminder of how far the Democratic Party, once champion of the underdog, has strayed. He points out the degree to which the party has become captive to economic elites whose agendas don’t necessarily represent the rest of America’s.”
Poll: 57% of Democrats want Sanders to stay in the race through the convention
DNC: 57% of democrats aren’t real democrats and need to learn their place.
Donald Trump is telling people that Ted Cruz’ dad was involved with the Oswald assassination. He is seriously repeating this mess. I just laughed at a headline on the front page of one of the rags in the grocery store checkout which claimed that Cruz’ dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination. And now I find that Trump actually reads that mess.
You know the chilling thing about the first video of Carly falling at a Cruz rally? Both Cruz and his wife see her fall and then totally ignore it while continuing to shake hands and work the crowd.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/03/trump-bizarrely-links-cruzs-father-jfk-assassin-cruz-goes-ballistic/83874972/
This is getting good. This article shows why both men are not fit to be President.
Super close tonight. What gets is is that Clinton could have easily kneecapped Sanders by co-opting some of his populist message but she just can’t bring herself to do it.
@J “she just can’t bring herself to do it.”
No real need. She’s already focusing on the general.
Sanders, OTOH, is focusing on being annoying.
Am I the only one who is getting really tired of his act???
I’m okay with him staying in, but I wish he’d pivot his message to the general.
I’m not tired of his act per se but I have long been annoyed about his narcissistic use of the royal “we” in his speeches and interviews and his general lack of criticism of Trump, instead reserving most of his criticism for Clinton.
Sanders is still running in a primary, where his opponent is still Clinton, so it can’t be a surprise that he is still focused on her.
He’s still running in a primary that he’s already lost.
Clinton won’t go after him, because, as the nominee, she needs to unify the party. Trump and the GOP won’t go after him because they love what he’s doing. Bernie is simply doing his stump speech every day without anyone going after him. That’s fine, but he’s getting a pass on having to explain/defend his policies and no one is throwing dirt at him.
It was never about Bernie. His fire in the belly is for educating voters and building support for an idea, which is going very well and is something Hillary would never accomplish in a lifetime of increments. Hillary and her supporters are completely flummoxed when he doesn’t fold.
Yeah, I’m going to disagree with that one. It is about Bernie. He’s a politician, and a good one, but his ego (like ALL politicians) is involved.
There needs to be someone delivering that extremely popular message. Clinton is apparently unwilling to do so, therefor, Sanders must stay in.
Hillary certainly isn’t flummoxed. She campaigned in Ohio yesterday. OHIO. She’s in the General already.
She is in the general – and that’s a good thing.
“It is about Bernie. He’s a politician, and a good one, but his ego (like ALL politicians) is involved.”
Absolutely, otherwise he would not be pleading with the super delegates, you know the ones who have the system “rigged”, to rig the system in his favor.
Doses of realism are never very palatable. I don’t fault Sanders for what he says and does. In his shoes I would do the same. However, I do recognize it for what it is – ambition along with considerable narcissism. To want to attain the office of the leader of the free world, one must be ambitious and narcissistic.
We have seen plenty of narcissistic politicians, and Bernie doesn’t fit the mold.
“Hillary certainly isn’t flummoxed. She campaigned in Ohio yesterday. OHIO. She’s in the General already.”
Yeah, she campaigned in Ohio… by promising to prop up coal. Whatever else she says now, she is pro-global warming.
Trump will be in Ohio next week promising to build the biggest, best coal mine ever. Maybe even to build the border wall out of coal.
Every living person, is to some degree, narcissistic. Throughout history, completely selfless behavior is limited to an extremely small set of individuals. Some folks may be enamoured with the concept of Saint Bernie. Wishful thinking does not make it so.
Yeah, she campaigned in Ohio… by promising to prop up coal. Whatever else she says now, she is pro-global warming.
Link please. And it better say “I will prop up coal.”
Bernie isn’t a great vessel. Luckily the truth of his position is unassailable.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-apologizes-coal-country-over-out-business-comments-n566451
and the part I’m talking about is…
“What I said was totally out of context from what I meant because I have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time,” she said. “What I was saying is that the way things are going now, we will continue to lose jobs. That’s what I meant to say.”
So no, she doesnt say “I will prop up coal” YOU WIN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! But either you’re coming after my reading comprehension, or you will be able to see why this is problematic for people who give a crap about, ya know… life….
Yeah, reading comprehension is definitely an issue. Even if you look at the video here, she is clearly talking about supporting the folks losing their jobs. She’s pretty clear that the jobs are going away in coal country — and she wants to do what should have been done even after NAFTA — work on better re-skilling and support of the folks who are losing jobs here.
But she isn’t looking to prop up a failing industry here, by any stretch.
Your go-to insult isn’t quite as effective when I pre-mock you for it.
What I saw was a candidate unable to commit to saving the planet. How does she plan on moving forward? Does she think that coal companies losing business is a problem or not (do you, for that matter? are you allowed to answer before Clinton decides what that answer is? )
She could have said “we’ll make sure that the workers who lose their jobs are trained and prepared for jobs in renewable”. That would have been smart politically and a great policy move……. She could have said “you hillbillies are nothing compared to the vast needs of the rest of the planet…. plus you’re all probably Trump supporters so screw you” That would have been true and would have helped distance herself from the Right.
Instead, she gave a weak-kneed answer designed to appeal to “everyone”…. which, after 10 years of running for president, she should know always has the opposite desired effect.
Democrats lost Ohio in 2004 because Republicans put an anti-gay marriage issue on the state ballot to drive conservative turnout. The hillbillies came down from the hills to vote against gay marriage. Now they will come down to vote for their coal jobs. I hope Hillary has a plan to win without Ohio.
What Hillary has, is a plan to blame her loss on everything but herself. You can see it in her supporters. They are so quick to accuse other of bigotry. They are unwilling to talk about… or even acknowledge her biggest weakness. It’s horrifying.
What I saw was a candidate unable to commit to saving the planet.
Which wasn’t the topic of her conversation, either.
So this is you plain just not paying attention and looking for stuff to complain about. Even though there is plenty that is real to complain about.
Exactly.
I (and lots of people) complained about real stuff for months and was called misogynist, out of touch, tone deaf, a republican, a fool…. why would anyone bother trying to have a real discussion with you anymore?
@Ben On the other thread you admitted that you accused me of saying something I never said. I love ya, but reading comprehension matters.
As far as bigotry… I didn’t make the joke. I even stated, quite clearly, that I didn’t believe they believed this. And if everything is just a joke, then… Trump is hysterical!
Whoa… could you link to the comment thread that called you, or someone else, a misogynist? Did I miss that exchange?
“work on better re-skilling and support of the folks who are losing jobs here.”
This is disingenuous. If you’ve ever spent much time in West Virginia (or other Appalachian coal areas) you know that there is no other legal industry that brings dollars to the community. “Re-skilling” people will have to include a free U-Haul, because they won’t be able to sustain themselves in a region with nothing to export.
Kudos to her for showing up and taking the abuse she knew was coming. What she meant to say doesn’t matter. If you read the link, you realize she isn’t going to win West Virginia (or other coal-dependent states) anyway.
As for her losing Ohio, if Clinton wins the 19 states that have voted for the Democrat in the last 5 presidential elections, all she needs beyond that is Florida. And Florida is seeing a boom in Hispanics who have decided that, with Trump on the horizon, they will become citizens so they can vote against him.
http://thehill.com/latino/277824-hispanics-in-swing-states-create-daunting-electoral-map-for-gop
Trump is not hysterical. Trump is terrifying. If you are not scared of Trump…. you are someone who has little to lose from the Trump presidency. People who will be persecuted are afraid of him right now. Some of you are writing them off.
Might I suggest you change your tactics. It’s funny when DD says Jason loves Trump, because they are both men (i guess) who aren’t going to be targeted for their skin or faith or gender. Would you be so dismissive and insulting to a young Muslim woman? How about Hispanic children who pack their cloths out of fear of imminent deportation? What snippy retort do you have for them?
It isn’t that many of you haven’t taken Sanders seriously that frightens me so much. Its how you haven’t taken Trump seriously. Everyone EV-RY-ONE has been wrong about him….. and the fact that Clinton isnt changing her strategy is the most frightening of all. You arent going to talk me down by insulting me… so if that is your response to this, dont waste your time……….unless you only do this for the ago boost of insulting strangers… in which case, again… we’re all screwed.
Yeah, reading comprehension matters.
Not kidding about the links to comments calling people misogynists, btw. I can’t believe I missed that.
Pandora, as with some of your bernie-bro experiences, nothing that brazen happened here. I mean, it’s clear Cassandra has a very low opinion of my intelligence… ( I bet that gets me knocked for my reading comprehension again)…. But in general, I dont document when someone is rude to me. But I know YOU KNOW those terms have been lobbed at people who dont support Clinton…no matter the reason they give…
This is disingenuous. If you’ve ever spent much time in West Virginia (or other Appalachian coal areas) you know that there is no other legal industry that brings dollars to the community.
Not disingenuous. Some of the “support” is also about helping to support/attract/create replacement businesses. Like the Europeans do. An economy that relies on a single industry is an economy that collapses fast when that single industry is going out of business. In many ways, WVA is going through what states like PA and OH who had massive steel industries went through starting a few decades back. This is really the heart of the populist effort on both the left and the right — you can’t let the free market ride roughshod over the people who power that free market and hope that things work out at the end. There needs to be some intervention to help create something new — because no one can support a family making coffee at Wawa.
Besides, my response was more about incorrect claims on Hillary’s climate change stance.
Goodness… as if on cue with that talking point.
(and lots of people) complained about real stuff for months and was called misogynist, out of touch, tone deaf, a republican, a fool…. why would anyone bother trying to have a real discussion with you anymore?
You could have saved yourself some effort and just said you didn’t have an answer to my question. Sheesh.
So this, “I (and lots of people) complained about real stuff for months and was called misogynist, out of touch, tone deaf, a republican, a fool…. why would anyone bother trying to have a real discussion with you anymore?” isn’t true either? It’s now someone on the internet called you these names?
I hope you guys are having fun with all of this. I really do.
I’m seeing otherwise very intelligent people not take seriously a threat to all of us. Yes. I think Hillary could lose to Trump…. rather than offer an explanation why I’m wrong (that doesnt include conventional wisdom that has been proven wrong for months now), you just attack. Maybe I just misunderstand the point of the internet. All I can do is hope that the people who work for Hillary are more in-tune that you are.
I’m not going to mine months of comments to help you win your little bullying exercise. I dont have access to it, I cant prove it. I also dont need to. I owe you nothing. What is sad, is that you have once again thrown out a conversation about how much danger your fellow Americans are in, in favor of proving how dumb and wrong some random jerk is.
“All I can do is hope that the people who work for Hillary are more in-tune that you are.”
I’m afraid your hope is in vain. In my experience they are even less in-tune than the folks here. She is the second-most-hated presidential candidate of all time. No. 1 is her opponent.
Pandora apparently chooses her words very carefully, and woe to the commenter who doesn’t remember which dismissal came from her keyboard vs. DD’s, Cassandra, Prop Joe’s, etc.
Stop it, Ben. You made the accusations. You took conversations to that place by accusing people of saying things you can’t back up (on two threads today). It isn’t bullying to ask for proof of what you are claiming.
You better have links to back that up.
IN any case, If I’m going to be treated like an asshole, I might as well live down to it. Perhaps it will be more fun to treat this like a game instead of anything serious. It’s not like my life will be that bad under Trump.
It has happened in in-person conversations (which i dont record), In FB exchanges (which i will not share here) and on other sites (which I dont have the time or motivation to find) I have no way of proving it. Bask in the glory of my humiliating defeat.
You can either assume I’m a liar (which you clearly do) and continue to harp on it… or you can move on to something more important….. like how Clinton can stop Trump. I never said “it happened here” You can even re-post my exact comment and all I said was that “it happened”. (reading comprehension)
Jesus Christ, I’m sorry I said that. Im sorry. OK? I shouldn’t have brought up my personal experience in order to make a point.
“Pandora apparently chooses her words very carefully, and woe to the commenter who doesn’t remember which dismissal came from her keyboard vs. DD’s, Cassandra, Prop Joe’s, etc”
Exactly, It’s like we’re in a friggin courtroom sometimes.
“I think you secretly love Trump. I really do.” – DD.
to anyone who takes Trump seriously. Thank you DD, for proving im only sort of a liar.
It has happened in in-person conversations (which i dont record), In FB exchanges (which i will not share here) and on other sites (which I dont have the time or motivation to find) I have no way of proving it.
So this is worse, actually. You are claiming that you don’t have conversations with people in this space because of conversations you are having with other people who are calling you names? Certainly I don’t interact with you in the venues above, but somehow I’m supposed to be accountable for what other people say?
Sheesh.
honestly, dude, what you do want out of this? I misspoke, and made a sloppy comment. I once again, let a topic devolve into “LETS BEAT UP THAT GUY!!!!!!!’
Shit, I even said i was sorry… i meant it.. then kinda regret it now. SO c’mon keep it commin, Classy Cassy! Prove to everyone how smart and tough you are.
“Pandora apparently chooses her words very carefully, and woe to the commenter who doesn’t remember which dismissal came from her keyboard vs. DD’s, Cassandra, Prop Joe’s, etc.”
I actually do chose my words carefully – most of the time. But feel free to link to DD’s, Cassandra’s, Prop Joe’s and my comments proving your point. And I’d say if you’re bringing up slights against you then you’d, you know, remember who dismissed you.
Come on, if I said, “I (and lots of people) complained about real stuff for months and was called racist, out of touch, tone deaf, a republican, a fool…. why would anyone bother trying to have a real discussion with you anymore?” How would you read that?
Everyone here see’s that I regret having said that… because i said so. I said so damn near immediately. Fact is, Cassandra HAS insulted my intelligence, DD is being dismissive of Jason RIGHT NOW on another thread. So it isnt all wrong, but I’m willing to be defeated if it gets the conversation back on track.
Your continual use of one bad comment just shows how little you actually care about a real conversation. Shall I leave the conversation (and all future conversations) entirely? This place is fucking toxic anyway.
“And I’d say if you’re bringing up slights against you then you’d, you know, remember who dismissed you.”
Oh, dear. No, I’m afraid. You’ll have to speak for yourself there. Perhaps you haven’t been slighted often enough to stop caring.
Yeah, that’s what’s going on. Given those standards, should I leave the conversation, too? I’ve been called a lot more names than you. Whatever. The “You’re not a corporate whore. You’re a lover of corporate whores” is my recent favorite. LOL!
“I’ve been called a lot more names than you.”
Only on this site.
“Oh, dear. No, I’m afraid. You’ll have to speak for yourself there. Perhaps you haven’t been slighted often enough to stop caring.”
Yeah, that’s it. You have been slighted so much.