#WhyIMarch
Oh!!!!! The Women’s March was stupid because you, personally, have not felt oppressed — so it’s obviously just a fake problem made up by whiny millennial babies having a tantrum because we are sore losers?
Cool.
But guess what?
I don’t know anyone killed by a drunk driver, so that must also be a fake problem.
I’ve never seen a wombat, so sorry wombats, you’re no longer real.
I personally have never had a heart attack–so it’s obviously just a “problem” made up by whiny baby-boomers who just don’t understand how much worse other people’s cardiac episodes are.
None of my parents have died–so great news–nobody else’s have either!!!!
But do you what I have experienced? In more than one job, I’ve been sexually harassed. In my 35 years I have had my “no” ignored violently — more than once. I have been groped in public places without my consent more times than I can count, many before I was a fucking adult. And now I’m a financially stable, white, married, privileged woman. So I cannot begin to imagine the disregard and disrespect and fear that women of color, transwomen, and/or socioeconomically disadvantaged women feel on a daily basis.
So good for you. I’m glad you felt like this was #notmymarch. I wish more of us felt as safe as you do.
But *I* marched for you anyway, regardless of the fact that you would not march for me.
Just because it’s not YOUR problem doesn’t mean it’s not a real problem.
Perfectly said, Evey.
If these issues aren’t a priority to you, if you can move them to the bottom of your list as a form of some weird punishment, it’s probably because these issues don’t impact your life… or your economy. They don’t exist for you.
They aren’t my highest priority, but they’re not off the list. And I was protesting in Washington not just on Saturday, when it was a safe space, but on Friday, when it wasn’t. I’ve even commissioned a pink “kitty” hat from my wife, who is still finishing up her own.
It’s not weird punishment to make note of the fact that men are unlikely to respond in large numbers to a Women’s March. Even the organizers said the week before that they should have called it a People’s March.
It’s not the goal I dislike, pandora. It’s you, or more specifically that moral high horse you bring everywhere.
What Ive been seeing a lot of is “these arent you’re issues, so go away” … and by “a lot”, I mean “some of”.
There are a LOT of newly awoken people making their voices heard and they are being met with some pretty serious anger/accusations. I cannot think of a better way to halt a movement. To go anecdotal…. yes, most white women voted for drumpf, as many signs rightfully pointed out….. but probably not the ones who attended the march, (and if they did, they have obviously changed their minds and probably had a significant personal crisis over it) so back off. Dont make someone’s first experience with political activism one where they are accused and accosted.
Comment not directed at the OP or the poster, just an observation I, in my cis-hetero-white-maleness, deem somewhat relevant to the topic at hand.
I so wish it had been called a “People’s” march. Branding is such a frustratingly important part of any movement.
People will be affected then can lose their health insurance for getting sick. People will be affected when the air and water turns poisonous. People will be affected when public schools close. People will be affected when we are at war with China and lose access to any and all electronics.
As I told women Saturday, now that they want to take away our health care, I can legitimately chant, “My body, my choice!” Though I admit that my favorite, which I started whenever I could, was “Can’t build wall! Hands too small!”
Alby, I disagree with basically everything you said and also implied — I don’t think it’s unusual to expect that men would turn out or support a Women’s March. I’m not the actual climate, but I turn out for their movements and support their causes because climate issues have real world implications for me. And though you are not a woman (I’m assuming–just given the general tone of your comment), you mentioned being married to one, so I’ll just ask — would you not turn out to march for her rights? And I shouldn’t have to ask about your wife to make it personal enough for you to realize that women should be granted the same rights that are given to you simply because you carry a y chromosome.
Also kudos for marching on Friday, you made sure to mention how much better that made you, because it wasn’t a safe space. But guess what, that lack of safety you felt momentarily surrounded by people you knew could hurt you is a daily reality for so many women, so excuse me if my ovation is lacking. I want you as an ally but not at the cost of the dignity of other women, which leads to my last point.
I don’t have to defend pandora because she can do it by herself, but your comment was out of line and unhelpful, but does illustrate a important point. There are men who, by virtue of their maleness, feel free to say anything they want (specifically online) without fear of retribution because the world is already a safer space for you.
Good. I knew I wasn’t going to like you.
“would you not turn out to march for her rights?”
No, not usually. Usually I stay home so we don’t have to get a house- and pet-sitter.
“you to realize that women should be granted the same rights that are given to you simply because you carry a y chromosome.”
Oh, bravo. Do you rehearse that? Is that womansplaining?
“you made sure to mention how much better that made you”
Not better. Braver.
“that lack of safety you felt momentarily surrounded by people you knew could hurt you is a daily reality for so many women, so excuse me if my ovation is lacking.”
You don’t get it. I wasn’t scared. Sorry you weren’t there. Lots of women were — in fact, those inaugural crowd numbers are only as big as they were because there were as many protesters as Trump supporters. I was pointing out that I’m not some timid soul who needs the safe spaces that women like you insist on trying to impose on the real world.
“I want you as an ally but not at the cost of the dignity of other women,”
I guess the women in DC Friday and Saturday have lower standards than you. They were happy to have me.
“your comment was out of line and unhelpful,”
Not for you to judge.
“but does illustrate a important point. There are men who, by virtue of their maleness, feel free to say anything they want (specifically online) without fear of retribution because the world is already a safer space for you.”
I’ll say it to your face if you like. And yes, the world is a safer space for me — but not by much (I’m old, fat and slow, and unlike girls, boys are treated to the hierarchy of physical violence from childhood).
You can deal with that or expend all your energy trying to change it. I choose the former. Yes, it’s easier for me, but someone has to live with reality and fight Trump instead of the patriarchy. I suppose that falls to us men.
10 points for “can’t build wall, hands too small”. Make a hell of a good chant.
Alby is a good example of why changing the name of Brookmont Farms to Sparrow run makes no difference.
Never intended it to. This is more like changing its name to B-Town, which to the kidz back then was its name.
Wash your own laundry, sister.
Who exactly is the “you’ in this post?
@puck it was just meant to be a response to many criticisms by other women regarding the march. I’ve seen numerous posts/articles about how some women were struggling to understand why women felt the need to march given that they had never felt oppressed or like they didn’t have control over their bodies.
I just wanted to respond. I wanted them to know that I was happy this was the world as they had experienced it, but to still point out that many of us had not experienced that world.
I should have clarified more.
Another post on women’s issues devolves into men’s concerns. This conversation will never happen here.
Now, carry on with the name calling.
@pandora: I was responding to you specifically.
Prioritizing women’s issues first doesn’t make you morally superior. It shows you’re selfish, yet you are not willing to acknowledge any beams in your own eyes. You never have been. And you’re so afraid of admitting it that you had to run away and start your own blog.
Buh-bye.
@Evey: Sorry, I shouldn’t have taken it personally. I really, really love the idea that “liberals” won’t let me march with them if I’m doing it for my own reasons.
Thanks for the clarification Evey… I was surprised that you were responding to criticism by women rather than by men. I’m glad i asked.
I’ve heard of a few criticisms by men, but they were pretty lightweight and easily dismissed.
I’ve heard the women’s idiotic criticism which this post addressed expertly. It is like some people want to misconstrue though. By some people, I mean Alby.
@puck–surprisingly, most of the “you women are stupid for marching” posts I saw came from women, who said nothing bad has happened to them so it must be impossible that other people had experienced anything worthy of being mad about.
I wanted mostly to say that my personal experiences had been different, and I come from privilege so I acknowledge that there are others who would kill for my experiences. I also really just wanted those women to know that should their charmed existence ever fail them, that the rights we marched for would be there for them. The use of the universal “you” was definitely unclear.
Thank you Evey for posting. I have been having my own internal dialogue about the issues surrounding the Women’s March. I think it important to realize the march was brought about by a grandmother in Hawaii that blossomed into many women banning together to say we have had enough on many levels.
People, including those on this site don’t understand why it was a Women’s march. Well that is simple, women got together (many in secret groups) that later evolved into activists groups across the country. It was a women’s march because a majority of women put it in motion and saw it through. At no time were men or anyone else excluded.
Many also question why it wasn’t an anti trump rally. Are you kidding me? Maybe it wasn’t in name but every platform was definitely not in line with his beliefs/rants.
Was it intersectional? Not as much as we would have liked but not for a lack of trying, especially within the DE women’s groups. We will continue to try and include everyone who wants to support the mission statements that have been developed.
What’s with those pussy hats/vagina hats? That excludes people without that anatomy. The hat was a response to the “pussy grabbing” comment that caught media’s attention. It is meant to be a reclaiming of the word and a figurative show of control of one’s pussy. People blew those comments off as locker room talk- men don’t actually do that! They do. The first time it occurred to me (other than middle school boy hijinks), with intent, I was 17. Tending bar, washing glasses when a male employee decided it would be fine for him to reach up my shorts and fondle. Despite my verbal displeasure and throwing a beer mug in his general direction as he sauntered of laughing with the guys, he then tried to grope me further in the back when I went for supplies. The employer’s response was “boys will be boys” and “it’s your word against his”. I quit that day. I would like to be able to say that was the only time but it wasn’t. One time it was even a female . Either way, not pleasant.
Why do I march when I am white and privileged? Because even as a white, priviledged woman, I have been assaulted, raped, treated as less than by colleagues, have not been paid as much as my male counterparts even though I had years more experience, been asked if my husband is going to approve the car/house I am purchasing without them, have been talked over or frequently interrupted when talking… I could go on. This is why I march because I know that other women aren’t as lucky as I am. They make less than me for doing the same job, they had more barriers in life than I did for whatever reason. I march for all women (biological or not) because either way it’s fucking tough to be a woman.
Settle down guys, it is tough to be a white man too but you realize many of you have been able to make the rules, control the little woman due to societal views despite your economic standing. We ask that you stand with us, acknowledge that women in the last hundred years and less have just been able to vote, own property without a husband or his consent, have their own credit line, not be as belittled for deciding not to marry/have children/ work outside the home, etc…
We need all of us for this fight because we are all going to be fucked if we don’t ban together. We are equals and need to treat each other as such. This bullshit about “I am braver because I went both days” is just that. You were at the protest on the 20th, okay, thank you. You have no idea what anyone else was doing, so don’t assume others were doing nothing.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep on saying it until some women get it:
Your complaints are but a small part of what we’re fighting. You want to march for women’s rights, go for it. But don’t pretend that it’s Trump-specific. We’ve been marching for women’s rights since 1970, after the 50-year pause once women got the vote; they marched for 40 years before that just to get the vote. That’s how hard women’s rights have been to secure.
I wasn’t at the “protest” on Friday. I stood at the gate to enter the inauguration’s ticketed area and made sure every Trumpkin in there saw me on the way out. I spent seven hours on the streets confronting Trumpkins — mostly politely, but if people weren’t polite, then nastily. I was confrontational on purpose.
I wear my Trump Sucks sweatshirt out in public, where Trump supporters can see it. They must be reminded constantly that they’re in the minority. When they say something nasty I try to use it as the start of a conversation.
The tack that I found worked best was asking Trump supporters if they considered themselves honorable men (they were overwhelmingly men). Of course they say yes (though some are too suspicious to answer), at which point I ask if Donald Trump is an honorable man. “Would you run your business the way he runs his? Stiffing people, declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying bills?” They offered excuses for his behavior, but if you stick that idea of honor in their heads, they’ll go home thinking about it.
The idea isn’t to “win” the debate, it’s to get them thinking for themselves. It isn’t easy, but with some of them you can tell the gears are clicking behind their eyes.
In short, if you want nothing but praise, you’ve come to the wrong place. My belief is that most of you aren’t anywhere close to where you need to be to prepare for the fight ahead. There are no safe spaces, no matter what the mush-headed academics like to pretend. That’s a myth, and it needs to be countered right quick.
The other danger we face is that left-wingers are, in general, just as totalitarian in their approach as right-wingers. You see that in constant policing of language and tone from the now-departed women who once contributed to this blog.
That attitude is what conservatives use to demonize liberals, and you’ll notice it’s not untrue. Look at how much pushback I get from self-styled “liberals” whenever I criticize a Women’s March for excluding 49% of the population.
Liberal means open to ideas. Most of you aren’t, and what you hate is being reminded of it.
“Liberal means open to ideas.”
Alby, do me a favor, stand in front of a mirror and say your own quote. I want to know if any gears click.
What idea do you think I”m not open to, Susan? The one that your priorities should be mine?
You are the ones who aren’t open to allowing others their own reasons to resist. You and your sisters are the totalitarians here.
Your priority is dear to you, mine to me. I marched. What you’re complaining about is that I don’t agree with you. Learn to deal with it.
It’s the oppression Olympics in action. Dont worry all, soon we’ll all be in gulags getting tortured by Drumpf’s SS.
@Ben: We show up in numbers now so the Trumpkins don’t get around to creating the SS.
Resist the entirety, not little pieces, or even big pieces. Resist it all.
I’m disappointed that Alby is not only posting on this site but a guest contributor.
Admins, do you not have policies about ad hominem attacks? He is on a two-day tear attacking other contributors and commentors. To me, this does not foster debate or anything else helpful. Instead it distracts from real issues, and makes me less likely to read here.
Please make your policies clear and enforce them equally. I believe others have banned for less.
@RM: Learn what “ad hominem” means. I have not attacked Susan personally. I am attacking the idea that something called a Women’s March represents everyone. The name does not cast a wide enough tent. Is that so hard to accept?
Calling for the silencing of your opponent doesn’t exactly dispel the charge of totalitarianism. Meantime, I suggest you learn to skip over my comments, as you’re clearly not interested in any opinion that doesn’t comport with your own.
If my rough language makes you uncomfortable, what good are you going to be in the trenches?
In the “more important issues” area, which I notice you didn’t address, here’s something that might get you up to speed.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/history-anti-authoritarian-struggles-history-worth-repeating/
Here’s a key lesson:
“Successful movements of the past incorporated diverse stakeholders and developed a clear message that appealed to many different groups.”
Branding is your friend. So is learning to work through the fact that some of us aren’t going to agree with you about everything, and are going to nitpick every little thing, just like we did when the manly men were in control.
tl;rd version: Grow the fuck up.
Alby,
Here is a short list of your recent ad hominem attacks:
“self-important fake”
“moron”
” bad would-be novelist”
“dipshit”
“stop trying to hang with the smart people”
“I knew I wouldn’t like you”
I could go on, but I think the point is clear. I don’t mind rough language, I mind pointless personal attacks.
By all means be passionate, be challenging, but be honest. Your comments have been out of line. If you are “brave” as you say above, have the courage to admit you were wrong.
Yeah, if that’s what you’re talking about, you’re right. I was wrong. Rob and I ironed it all out in person.
I’m not a likable person, but I”ll try to reign it in. But not for the trolls.