Hey, Feminist Democrats — What About Carper?
I awoke this morning to my wife’s triumphant claim of “I told you so.” She predicted about a couple of weeks ago that Matt Lauer would fall in the sexual-harassment purge. But my gosh, Garrison Keillor? Really?
Despite my misogyny, I have no complaints about media companies and Hollywood people firing those accused of such behavior. Apparently Lauer’s behavior was one of those “open secrets,” like J. Edgar Hoover’s domestic partnership, that all the insiders knew, and reporters are having a field day digging up clips like the one of Katie Couric telling an interviewer that Lauer’s most annoying habit was “he pinches me on the ass a lot.” To illustrate how much the landscape has changed, that was all the way back in 2012.
Those people are employed by companies or people who have every right to fire them. We, on the other hand, do not employ Al Franken or John Conyers. They were elected by the state of Minnesota and residents of Michigan’s 13th representative district. They, not we, get to decide their fate, unless their colleagues in the Senate and House move against them, as the Senate did with Bob Packwood in 1995.
But you know what? Any Delaware Democrat who calls for Franken’s and Conyers’ resignations over past transgressions can instead deal with the case of Tom Carper, whose ex-wife accused him of hitting her in a divorce deposition decades ago. This was long rumored, but wasn’t revealed publicly until his run for governor against Janet Rzewnicki in 1996. The revelation backfired because Rzewnicki tried to hide her involvement in finding it and releasing it, and in the aftermath nobody did much to pursue it further. Celia Cohen wouldn’t even mention it because she blew the story, but it’s in the News Journal files at the public library. So how does that jibe with the current climate? If you’re willing to hoist somebody else’s senator, how about your own?
So all you Delaware warriors who want their politicians to resign if they’ve ever mistreated women, get to work on the one guy you actually have some influence over. Go after Tom Carper.
Hell yes.
Tom Carper is a DINO, big pharma boot licker. But I have no problem walking him off the plank for also being an abuser. A win is a win.
And this may be an unpopular opinion, but being an abuser is way worse than being a creep (like Franken). I know this was probably a cheeky post meant to trigger “someone”, but you’re right. He needs to go.
Like you, I think he should go for two reasons, age and corporate bootlicking (don’t forget his banking ties). But he skated on this 20 years ago. It was brought up and dismissed, naturally, by Delaware Grapevine, the reasoning being that voters had heard about it and elected him anyway, so it was not a legitimate issue. I’d dig up the links but I’m about to go out, so maybe later.
As you have accurately pointed out, times have changed. Let’s see if he can get away with brushing this off today.
Certain people — lots of people, actually — have wished for a tool to knock him out of office. Well, here it is.
I am 1000% behind primarying him. I havent seen enough of Rep Blunt-Rochester to make a call on her, but our senators and governor are basically republicans. If Carper can be swept up in this wave, I would like to personally take his floaties away.
I was wondering how long it would take to bring this up. He actually lost a lot of support from women during his elective runs (unfortunately, not enough) but in delaware people will vote for people solely because they see him at the local coffee shop. And if you’ve ever worked with Craper everyone knows he is a pretty creepy dude around females
Martha Carper was briefly employed by the House D’s the first two years I was in Dover. 1983-84.
I can tell you that our Chief of Staff at the time, who was excellent, BTW, had tremendous empathy for her and believed her.
Carper, in fact, admitted it. Even Celia had the admission, in an article where she makes Carper out to be the most victimized Delaware politician when it came to dirty tricks:
http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/11-12carper.asp
Here’s Carper’s quote:
“”Did I slap my wife 20 years ago? Yes. Do I regret it? Yes. Would I do it again? No.”
Well, at least that’s nice to hear. But you don’t generally go the the emergency room due to some slaps.
Interesting in the extreme, Garrison Keeler that is, not Carper. Having know far too many divorced couples I know that allegations fly thick and fast in divorce court, I don’t think this revived story will have “legs” over time. But like almost everybody here if it gets rid of Carper I’m all for it. As noted Carper will be difficult to dislodge regardless of what is said about his former marriage, his subservience to Wall St. and Big Pharma and that he’s a total DINO. I threw away his Christmas card just the other day, might I add with attitude.
The Kelior accusation throws the one size fits all punishment for scumbaggrt (career execution) into focus. The fact is there are varioud grades of malfeasance.
100% agree with your take on Franken. Let the voters decide. I guess, in the interest of consistency, I have to apply the same rule to Carper.
Taking Carper out will either take his ex-wife speaking out or a primary opponent – ideally a woman – to go scorched-Earth with ads quoting TC himself.
Neither is going to happen.
Agreed
I wonder if this sexual douchebag purge if simply a function of old fuckers staying on the stage waaaaaaaaaay too long? Is this, in some way, the Titans being ousted from Olympus because they didn’t have the good sense to leave when they should have?
We are talking some really old fuckers who have had the earth shift under their feet. Tom Caper (70), Roy Moore (70), Trump (71), Bill Clinton (71), Conyers (88), Kelioer (75), Harvey Weinstein (65), Franken (66). Matt Luaer (59) is the outlier. He is just a scumbag.
The others lived their professional lives in a world which encouraged powerful men to act like dicks to women. I’m not exculpating them, just wondering out loud.
Did you notice everyone you mentioned entire career was based not in accomplishments but popularity with little to no accountability
“Taking Carper out will either take his ex-wife speaking out or a primary opponent – ideally a woman – to go scorched-Earth with ads quoting TC himself.”
Really? Make him radioactive enough and sponsors might find someone else. But my real intent is to gauge how serious some of the big talkers on this subject are. This isn’t my hobby horse, it’s theirs. If they’re going to judge Franken and Conyers harshly they’ll have to explain why this is a lesser, rather than greater, crime against women.
And, of course, it makes everyone who votes for him complicit. Word of the year.
“Make him radioactive enough”
And who’s going to make him radioactive? Bloggers trying to enforce a political purity test aren’t going to get shit done. You need someone really getting loud, and ain’t no one in Delaware gonna take on the Tomster. He works hard for the money.
“But my real intent is to …”
Ah, OK, so this is just blather, then. Got it.
Not my fault if you can’t keep up. Who’s going to make him radioactive? The people calling for Franken and Conyers to resign. Figure it out.
“Bloggers trying to enforce a political purity test aren’t going to get shit done.”
You’re telling the wrong person. Some people in Delaware are quite loud about demanding the resignation of politicians they can’t affect at all. Let’s see them put their money where their mouths are and apply the litmus test in a place where they’re actually putting something on the line. Or will they decide it’s not smart to anger a powerful Delaware Democrat?
Just blather? As in the Franken/Conyers talk is just blather, too?
The Delaware Way would not allow this issue any oxygen in Delaware in the media.
Politicians everywhere else are being made to answer for past transgressions. If Delawareans are not willing to hold their own senator to the same scrutiny they advocate for others, it says a lot about those Delawareans.
If the local media won’t touch it — after playing up the allegations against politicians elsewhere — it says a lot about the media, doesn’t it?
The local media will only cover it if an opponent squarely brought it up directly, but then they would accuse the candidate of playing gutter politics and say its a decades old issue.
Hey Lazy Bastards–
Whenever one of you decides to stop blogging about this from your mom’s basement, and decides to run for office, here is the first step:
https://elections.delaware.gov/pubs/index.shtml#absentee
Lots of people on here don’t like Carper, but none of you have the brains or guts to actually try and beat him in a race. I’d love to see even one of you try and primary him to just prove a point. Try it, put your hat in the ring, and teach him a lesson. You would be a hero on this blog and in pockets of Arden and Newark. One of you must be willing to do it and think it would be a rewarding experience because there is a blog about him damn near ever week.
Or, maybe you can band together and convince Sean Lynn, Townsend, Kowalko, or Kim Williams to run against Carper if you dont want to stick your own neck out there.
Surely one of them could get the votes to beat him in a primary and make the Senate more pure and rid it of people like Tom Carper who are clearly big threats to our republic and need to go right away to preserve the country.
Otherwise, shut the f*@k up, realize we dont live in a perfect universe, Carper is far from perfect, but one of the better ones when they are graded on a curve, and get back to things that actually matter to Delawareans like state sponsored execution, shit schools, and Delaware is willing to offer Amazon an unknown amount of money the same year they cut funding for seniors, kids, students, arts, the environment and every other demographic group or issue area we are supposed to care about. A democratically controlled state with water you cant swim in or fish in, schools you don’t want to send your kids to unless you cant afford not to, prisoners we seem to enjoy executing, and another pro sports team that has convinced the state and city to invest in their arena instead of the hundred or more lines that JFC cut last session—-and we are worried that Tom Carper is perfect? Really Alby?! Is this the most pressing issue today? Or did Carper not hire you on as an intern or something when you were in college? I dont get why your post is what you should be posting about today.
Its 11:06 right now, and while I am no huge fan of Carper, he is either still up and reading, sending emails about problems people asked him for help on or ways he is trying to help, or just went to bed because he is going to wake up and get a 7:00 am train back to DC only to do it again and slog it out with a bunch of republican ass hats who two years ago were yelling about Obama and the debt he was racking up, but they now want to lump 1.4 trillion on the books, and pay for it with cuts to universities, HUD, the EPA, HHS, and dozens of other programs and agencies.
You couldn’t run fast enough to get me to take that job.
Alby–If you decide to file, I will actually even help with the fees. Not much, but I’ll do what I can. Let us all know know you are going to run for Senate, and we will help. Or, if you want to try your hand on an easier office first to see if elected office is for you and what its like being a purist, I’ll even help with the cost to file for state rep or something like that.
His last opponent – Alex Pires – did bring it up. And it received a lot of attention.
El Som – his current wife is Martha, not his former. Facts are pesky things and you seem to be increasingly loose with them when the need serves.
And anyone who knows anything about that situation or the aftermath would know there’s any number of reasons why it doesn’t have oxygen, but Alby, point made and taken and whatever you thought this was supposed to accomplish.
“I dont get why your post is what you should be posting about today.”
Too bad. I don’t owe you an explanation. Do you want your money back?
“His last opponent – Alex Pires – did bring it up. And it received a lot of attention.”
That was before bad treatment of women became a firing offense. This is post-Moore and post-Franken.
“point made and taken and whatever you thought this was supposed to accomplish.”
Thank you. The point is and was that certain people who are crying for Franken and Conyers to resign immediately are mum when their own senator admits not fondling someone’s butt but hitting his wife. It’s old? So what? It’s no older than Roy Moore’s shenanigans.
Damn hypocrites, is the point. I didn’t think it was so tough to see.
“And anyone who knows anything about that situation or the aftermath would know there’s any number of reasons why it doesn’t have oxygen,”
Which “situation and the aftermath” are you talking about? The slap, the reporting, the scandalous way everyone covered for him so he’s never had to address it any more deeply than that quote to Celia?
Alby appears to have hit a nerve among Carperites. Interestingly, Carper isn’t even the focus of his scorn, but the comments give me the impression that they missed the big picture by a mile.
I especially liked the “if you don’t like the guy, why don’t you primary him?” stuff. Hilarious. I don’t like cancer either, but I’m not at all qualified to enter an operating theater.
Of course they missed the point. For them, the point ought to be “now you know why Alabamans are going to vote for Roy Moore.”
Delawareans feel, rightly so I believe, that Tom Carper admitted this, voters have forgiven him, that’s it. Bringing it up is unseemly, and I’m a crude oaf for doing so.
But for some reason, they don’t feel that way when the person is a thousand miles away or belongs to the other party. I wonder, oh how I wonder, what that reason could be. It just eludes me.
As stated previously, as long as they see you at Lucky’s or Crossroads you’ll get their vote. Remember John Atkins – slapped his wife around, drunk driving, using his influence for political favors. He was kicked out by the republicans, switched sides and was elected as a democrat. It’s all the same
You’re right, JTF. I got the wrong wife that Carper admitted to slapping around. Wish we had an editor…
The reason this never had legs was because Carper’s ex wife had some real bad mental issues. As I recall, that night she set fire to Carper’s military uniform in their bathroom and blocked him from getting into the bathroom to put the fire out. In a fit, he slapped her to get her out of the way. It didn’t have legs because of those little details. It seems that unlike sexual assault, the public believes that there are times when it’s forgivable to slap anyone.
This country went mad when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the anthem. Imagine if he set fire to a military uniform in the bathtub of a member of Congress. People would probably reccomend jail time or something more severe.
The issue isn’t whether they could oust him over this. The issue is whether they’ll try, or show that their oh-so-mighty morals are relative after all.
Well, that was part of the story. The question, of course, being, was that story true or was it what Carper supporters spread to spare his career? Wouldn’t be the first or last time someone said that the victim of domestic violence had it coming.
If you weren’t there, you don’t really know.
Not only does that story sound like fiction, I don’t remember it from when I read the deposition, and I sort of think that would stand out.
The folks over at the other site don’t know anything about it, which is testament to what a good job Celia did at burying this. Blowing this story helped get her fired, and every media person since has kept the bullshit going.
And he’s skated on this for years. It came out in 1996. I know of no comment he made addressing it until Celia’s quote from him in 2012. I know of no other venue in which he’s been held to account.
If that’s not covering for a toxic male in a powerful position, what is it?
Times have changed….might be a different env’t now to address Carper squarely on this issue. Would make him squirm big time for sure.
Both Pelosi and Clyburn FINALLY calling for John Conyers to resign today…….after a week of giving him shade and some cover . The broader Dem caucus pressured them to step up and do the right thing.
“The broader Dem caucus pressured them to step up and do the right thing.”
Please. No Republican, ever, can use that phrase in connection with sexual harassment. The day you pukes remove the menace in the White House is the day you start rebuilding your credibility. Until then, STFU about it.
Basically, my message to you is the same one this is meant to sent to Delaware Democrat: Clean up your own house before you lecture me about “the right thing to do.”
@Alby, NCC Dem has given you a huge compliment even if you don’t give a crap. It has crossed my mind more than once that you could run for office. You have the smarts, the guts, good communication skills and from a couple of your comments over the years, the $ to make a foray. I agree with most things you write and hey, I’m a woman. (I really don’t read misogyny in your writing but you self-confessed more than once.) Aside to Cassandra: why don’t YOU run for office? I’m not smart enough and I’m lazy, not a leader but a great supporter.
@ 00 You forgot to mention a couple of things about Alby.
Just look at his communication, for example:
“The day you pukes” That doesn’t go over real well, almost like Chris Christy.
“Until then, STFU about it.”
If Al, got backed into a corner, by someone, we might see the F-bomb flying out…IMHO. That doesn’t go over real well.
It’s not my skill set.
Anono’s right. Foul-mouthed misanthropes don’t make good politicians.
Well, well, a sign of progress: Delaware Democrat over at that other site now calls on Tom Carper to resign. Well, calls might be the wrong word. “Whispers” is more like it, along with the plea, “What do you expect me to do?”
All hat, no cattle.
Those representatives should resign as the people they represent will them to do so (or replace them in an election). While I have nothing but a great disdain for the electorate (of either party) who bear their ignorance like a medal of honor, they are entitled to the representative that they choose.
As far as Carper goes, I don’t know any more than the allegations, and I generally require facts for my decisions. The rest seem to include multiple accusers and some degree of admission by the accused. In those cases, it seems appropriate to clamor at least for recall by the voters who put them in office.
I have imagined myself if I had skeletons in my past (if?!), that I am embarrassed and ashamed about and have spent decades making up for them. What then should the consequences be? I have an internal struggle about that because I certainly want the maximum consequence for Roy Moore who has distinguished himself as more or less an enemy of democracy. Should I apply that same principle to Franken? Should my principle even include whether they are a champion of democracy or should the consequences be levied simply on past behavior without considering redeeming qualities or degree of behavior?
I envy those for whom life is a set of absolutes with never a doubt or debate about the right thing to do. It must be nice to have that much clarity. Life would be simpler for me that’s for sure!
“As far as Carper goes, I don’t know any more than the allegations, and I generally require facts for my decisions.”
He admitted it to Celia Cohen in 2012, after hiding from it for 30 years. It’s in a deposition his ex-wife gave, and it reads nothing like the fairy talk Bane related above.
I used to have the deposition, but I think I tossed it a couple of years ago when I cleaned out the file cabinets. If I get any time next week I’ll dig around for it again.
The upshot is, he tried to run from it, finally admitted it, and has faced no consequences for it. He knew it was bad or he wouldn’t have worked so hard to hide it for so long.
The question isn’t whether he did it. The question is what are the morally superior Democrats going to do about it?
Ok then, I think we know the answer already and that is moral absolutes are not a human condition. Pretending there are moral absolutes is the very definition of humanity.
I agree, but that’s not what’s going on with many Democrats right now. Quite a few are still of the opinion that by showing zero tolerance for sexual harassers (to say nothing of wife-beaters), the party will flourish.
It’s up to them to prove it, and I expect them to show their sincerity by hounding Carper on this.
Carper has skated on this for more than three decades. Is there some statute of limitations that falls between Franken in 2006 (and Conyers who knows when) and Carper in the early 1980s? Or does zero tolerance mean something other than what I’ve been led to believe?
Also, it’s funny how squeamish they all are about this whole subject — provided it’s Carper we’re talking about instead of someone who holds office a thousand miles away. So much for all the talk about how people would do anything to get rid of Carper — but they won’t do this.