Open Thread – Fuck Julian Assange
Wikileaks might have started as a transparency organization, but it ended up part of the Russian propaganda effort that elected Trump. Fuck that guy.
Of all the fines levied against him, how much will Donald Trump actually pay?
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Very bad take here.
Clearly a tool of Russia. Fuck that guy.
Clearly.
“Just sayin’ it’s possible to think that Julian Assange is a definite creep, a potential rapist, a conspiracist whackjob *and* that his arrest has incredibly worrying implications for the treatment of those who blow the whistle on gross abuses of state power.”
–Ash Sarkar Novara Media @AyoCaesar
Of course – two things can be true at the same time. Only a zealot thinks otherwise.
At some point, he put down the ref’s whistle and turned from blowing the whistle on gross abuses of state power and picked up Putin’s megaphone. Clearly.
Fuck that guy.
Very poorly thought out take here. But of course I’m secretly funded by PUTIN!
(You boomers are not helping, really. Not very much. Haven’t y’all eaten enough crow on this score?)
When media publishes secrets on your enemies you are “good”. However, when media publish things about your friends they are spies and criminals.
Come on, my dude. Think it through.
When someone disagrees with you, they are a baby boomer. I am good and truly burned.
As for Assange, it was true in 2015 that WikiLeaks was compromised by Russia in and it is still true. You can have all the opinions around that you want, but they are mere opinions.
ah yes. I’ll never forget how Wikileaks also leaked damning info about the GOP/NRA ties.
Or how Rachael Maddow coordinated with them and Clinton to time speeches and big drops about the GOP at the direction of Justin Trudeau.
Wikileaks has literally gone silent since they got trump elected.
ya boy’s a rapist and a Russian pawn, dude. Sorry bout your misplaced admiration.
smh.
Russian pawn! “My boy”. Hahahaha
I don’t admire him. I thought that was pretty clear.
Have you noticed that none of the 3 dozen Dem candidate for president ever mention this. Never mention Russia. Why do you suspect that may be?
IS IT BECAUSE THEY’RE ALL SECRET RUSSIANS?
But really, I’ll let you bang a quick research on that one. true, they are talking more about policy and what they would do as president but it’s come up.
I dont get it. You seem unable to accept that it is possible to KNOW that the treason he committed wont remove him from office… but also to not let it get excused or become normal. fuckin leftists….
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Once he had the whistle and a megaphone, he forgot (if he ever knew) what the original purpose was.
One thing is certain, Putin is a master manipulator. Either that or the people (Assange, Trump, whoever) he manipulates are real stooges!
He has never blown a whistle. He’s a middleman. Or hadn’t you noticed?
Re: Boomer mentality.
This 21st century Red Scare is a Boomer fantasy. So sorry to notice it.
We have extremely important political work to do and this is a waste of time.
Learn how to multitask.
Reagan Battalion!
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/1116324843119681536
This animal is a stooge for Vladimir Putin, an enemy of the United States & the free world, an alleged rapist, & a reckless & gruesome individual who is responsible for the deaths of Americans who are sons, fathers, brothers, and have been killed due to his work against America.
Hahahahaha. Reagan Battalion.
Delaware Neoliberal strikes again
And the moronic left strikes back.
@REV: You don’t know jack shit about Julian Assange’s motives. Neither does anybody else, but you don’t get to claim your opinion is the right one when you have no evidence that it is.
Exposing state secrets is good. Exposing political secrets that undermine a democratic election is bad.
Got it yet, sonny?
PS: They’re not Reds, they’re Russians. And they still have 1,500 nuclear warheads pointed at us. What part of that don’t you understand?
You really think he’s getting extradited to the US for publishing the DNC Hack? Really?
Couldn’t care less about him any way you spin it. What goes around comes around.
Back when we boomers were young, we expected to get arrested when we broke the law. That was the whole point. Ask Daniel Ellsberg.
What’s your gripe, anyway? Trump will probably give him the Medal of Freedom.
Some fucking journalist you must have been if you can’t see the very obvious 1st Amendment implications
I’m pretty sure I explained my position on breaking the law in the service of getting information to the public in my comment above. See Daniel Ellsberg.
The First Amendment does not overrule national security laws, whether you want them to or not. And I don’t get emotionally involved over “implications.”
You’re posturing, and I don’t care to join you. Sorry. And I couldn’t possibly care less about your judgment of my abilities based on our disagreement over whether I give a flying fuck about Julian Assange. It just shows me you’re a mean-tempered dick who doesn’t like being disagreed with.
The same Ellsberg who beat the case because what he did was legal? Don’t see your point there.
That’s not why he beat the case. He was still arrested and put on trial.
With your research skills, you shouldn’t be dissing others’.
The issue, as I understand it, is whether Jason is justified in saying “Fuck Julian Assange.” I think he has plenty of grounds to feel that way. I don’t care enough about him to put him on my list of heads I’d like to see on pikes, but I don’t have any sympathy for him, either.
Live with it.
Ellsberg did not beat the case. The government lost the case because of “gross governmental misconduct and illegal evidence gathering.” The subsequent Supreme Court ruling regarding publication of the papers found that the government did not make a successful case for prior restraint. It did not void the Espionage Act or give the press unlimited freedom to publish classified documents. While sound bites and headlines can be wonderfully aspirational, they rarely contain adequate information from which to form opinions or make decisions.
Thanks for that. I was just using his framing to keep it simple.
The point is that the trial did as much for the public as the release of the papers did. After all, the papers merely confirmed what we all pretty much knew, that they public was being lied to.
My point is that Assange does not have the courage of his convictions. No surprise there; most people prefer to avoid martyrdom.
My contempt comes from his willingness to work with an outright fascist dictator after his exposure of the war crime material. Somehow John Podesta’s emails don’t strike me as having the same public benefit.
And people who apologize for Putin or claim he’s not their problem are ignorant rubes who can’t see that the enemy of their enemy is not their friend.
My explanation was a response to DLs statement that when people beat a case it’s because what they were accused of was legal. Which in Ellsberg’s case and hosts of others is contrary to the facts. The government, unfortunately, was inept. Ellsberg broke the law. He might be a hero to some, but not to me. Ditto Assange.
What’s your beef with Ellsberg? It’s not like “we’re actually losing, not winning” is a legitimate state secret.
Hahaha. He knows the motives!
Firmly in the Fuck That Guy Camp, but waiting to see what happens next.
So he lived at the Ecuador embassy for 7 years? there is no way it has the same amenities at the continental.
He’s the picture of mental health, isn’t he?
He’s getting arrested so they can go after the press for publishing classified material.
So when the Mueller report is leaked…. the only way we’ll ever see it… it will get buried because all the news outlets will be afraid of the firing squad.
SO good news, Rev. the whole thing is forever buried and trump got away with it.
Cute. You really think Trumpistan needs Assange to accomplish quashing the Mueller report? Recent history shows that there is no call for old time-y contraptions to outwit Democrats like Coon and Blunt Rochester. Or maybe you have been away for the past three months?
it’s possible to both be glad that a rapist and garbage human was arrested.. AND be wary of who is arresting him and what their intended use for him is.
If Sweden were to reopen the rape case (which they dropped in May 2017) then OK. But celebrating a guy arrested by secret police on a US warrant for publishing evidence of US war crimes because he’s “garbage human” is a pretty bad take. Very poor.
Celebrating? Saying “fuck that guy” is celebrating? I’m more celebratory than I thought, then.
no he’s a garbage human being because he plainly favors war-criminal Putin. Did Revs account get hijacked by DELCRAT or something?
Some people can’t grasp the concept that the U.S. deep state and Putin are both enemies of the people.
The difference between the red scare of yesteryear and today is the color. Russia quested for dominance then. They quest still. Back then they were one kind of ist. Today they are a different ist. The objective has not changed. People are too hung up on ists and isms and other such labels. Those labels remain as meaningless as always. It’s not what people say, it’s what they do that matters.
Labels are simply shiny objects for the masses to focus on. It’s a magic trick and the Gen Xers are just as gullible as previous generations, probably even more so since they don’t have the benefit of hindsight.
youre saying adults 45-60 lack hindsight?
and what have the Vaunted boomers done with their hindsight, other than bring the world to the brink of totalitarian rule just as long as their under-performing children got participation trophies and they get an extra cupholder in their gas-guzzling suburban tank?
The charges against Assange are associated with exposing US war crimes. And of course Chelsea Manning is back in prison.
But… but… PUTIN!
I could multitask, yes. If the other task was worth my time. It isn’t.
I’m glad he revealed those crimes. I’m not so glad he worked with a fascist leader of a fascist country to get a fascist elected in this one.
Are you under the misimpression that your ignorance is a virtue? Just because you say something doesn’t matter doesn’t make it so.
“worked with”
Gotta stay on brand, me.
You keep staying these things like this grand conspiracy is a fact I’m ignorant of, which is odd.
Don’t blame me for the fact that you don’t keep up with the news. Read the Marcotte story.
It’s not a grand conspiracy, just a rather small one. Again, your arrogant ignorance is your hallmark. Why you’re proud of it is anyone’s guess.
Fuck Assange, unfortunately his extradition will probably not lead to jail time. More than likely, he will be named the new presidential press secretary. From Putin’s crime family to Trumps criminal operation.
if there’s one thing trmp loves, it’s scapegoats. You think he gives a crap about loyalty?
This guy is easily painted as a sad-sack “european” liberal and will burn for it. Good. His selective “transparency” shows his true agenda.
Amanda Marcotte’s take:
https://www.salon.com/2019/04/11/oh-the-irony-julian-assanges-support-for-donald-trump-comes-back-to-haunt-him/
Hahaha. I love this. Amanda Marcotte
“without Assange, we would likely not have a President Donald Trump,”
Nope. Disagree. Just because you say it doesn’t just make it true. I know you want it to be true. That’s different. But if you make that quoted equivocating assumption up front you need more than she’s got.
No one knows what the impact of the leak was or was not. Anyway, I thought it was Comey’s fault.
I didn’t say that, and I didn’t say I agreed with her conclusions. I told you to read it because she links to the emails demonstrating what you claim is unknown.
You still don’t get the point of any of this. You’re as effective against these fascists as the communists were against the Nazis, and for the same reason — obeisance to a political philosophy overrules the evidence of your lying eyes.
It’s clear how little RE cares about this. He’s barely giving it any attention…
I wonder what he thinks we can’t do because we think Putin is a fascist who’s aiding fascist movements across the Western alliance. It hasn’t stopped me from noticing that not a single Democrat running for president has made BLM a priority, to pick a quick example, or that only one says our biggest threat is climate change.
For the skeptical, here’s the evidence of conspiracy that REV claims doesn’t exist:
https://twitter.com/kpoulsen/status/1116341065416462336/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1116341065416462336&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedailybeast.com%2Fassange-how-ecuador-finally-got-sick-of-wikileaks-founder-and-ended-his-refuge-at-the-embassy-in-london
Where’s the post on Chelsea Manning? Maybe that’s who we should be talking about.
Assange made his bed, or didn’t after living in the same room for 7 years. Either way his ego was his downfall. That and the russians. And he probably smelled god awful.
He was an Australian computer programmer, so he probably smelled pretty bad the day he checked into the embassy suites.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616
“The extradition of Julian Assange to the US for exposing evidence of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan should be opposed by the British government.”
….
That’s how you do it. Because Jezza is the absolute boy …
If this conspiracy you speak of had like real evidence why arrest on the charge involving Manning. This has zero to do with Russia or the 2016 election. Zero.
And obviously I need to pay attention because you guys are confused.
well that was weak-sauce. Corbyn? Bernie Sanderchestershire?
what is it with leftists and their crusty old white dudes?
Of course it his arrest has nothing to do with is work on behalf of Russia. That will be forgotten by trump… who already decided he doesn’t know what Wikileaks is, despite him constantly telling his people to go read it.
He’s a loose end.
“This has zero to do with Russia or the 2016 election. Zero.”
So what? The issue is why he’s a shit human being, not the grounds on which he was arrested. We’re arguing two different points.
Putin is a fascist. It’s that simple, and you’re that dense.
He’s a shit person. I agree. He shouldn’t be arrested and extradited for that. Bob Woodward said he’d have told Ed Snowden (if Snowden leaked to him) to stay at the NSA as a mole. He would have encourage him to do it. Would that have been illegal or not? Would it be based on whether or not Woodward is a “shit human being.”
I understand exactly what you’re arguing. It’s dumb and as a retired journalist it’s truly bizarre.
Why, because you think I should jerk my knee every time someone gets arrested for leaking stuff?
If people really gave a shit they’d change the laws. They haven’t and won’t. And I’m not going to pretend that this is a greater danger to freedom of the press than, say, the John Kiriakou case.
I don’t recall this level of outrage about that case. Hardly anyone gave a shit.
So don’t tell me which leakers I have to defend. I get to decide myself, whether you like it or understand it or not.
I’m not saying defend him. But we can’t go celebrating it just because you don’t like the guy. Nonsensical.
Are Daniel Ellsberg and Ed Snowden are likable?
Again, I fail to see where saying “fuck him” is celebrating. In the end it makes no more difference than saying “fuck the government for arresting him.” Both are shouted into the ether and influence nothing.
Hypothetical: He’s tried and found not guilty. Is that better or worse for him, and press freedom? And don’t say you know that won’t happen, because the Ellsberg case didn’t turn out like anyone predicted ahead of time.
One last item: I didn’t write “fuck him,” Jason did. I’m defending Jason’s right to that opinion. I don’t care enough about Julian Assange to expend the energy to say “fuck him,” but I will expend the energy to defend Jason’s take on this as more than just “bad take.”
I never said he couldn’t say it. I said saying it is misguided and based on an irrational focus on Russia-Russia-Russia.
Hence. You can say Fuck Him… and it’s a very bad take.
If you just said it’s a bad take I’d have no problem. I do have a problem with you dismissing all concerns about a fascist regime spreading fascism throughout Europe and America. You, not we, are the irrational one on this issue.
If you want to trash me for bad takes, I also think Mumia Abu-Jamal is guilty despite his travesty of a trial, and yet I also think that the Dowager Faulkner should shut her whining piehole about him.
I am very concerned about the spread of fascism in Europe and South America! I’ve said so many (and been told nobody else cares).
I don’t think this is happening because of Julian Assange. I don’t think he has anything to do with it.
Lula Livre.
It has plenty to do with Putin, though. And while it would happen with or without Assange, he still chose to chip in on Putin’s behalf. Hence the “fuck him.”
Nobody cares about South America, which alternates between Marxism and fascism with only the infrequent touchdown on anything in between. The only country in Latin America that avoids the pendumlum is the only one without a military. The Founders’ attitude about a standing army was one of their greatest insights.
So publishing material from Chelsea Manning was OK because he chipped in AGAINST Geo W Bush.
Is journalism chipping in for and against people?
I care about South America. The reason they flip back and forth has very much to do with the same forces you’re very worried about.
Against fascism, not against Bush.
Journalism would be publishing information in the public’s interest. John Podesta’s emails were not in the public’s interest. No news organization worth the name would have agreed with you. He didn’t publish them for the public interest, he published them as revenge, and doing so helped Putin.
You’re smarter than this, you just can’t stand to concede a point. I’ve made the distinction quite clear, and you keep obfuscating it because you can’t admit there’s a difference. You also keep pretending that the irrational position of being glad to see Assange get his should rest on a rational basis of law. Why you insist on this is your own bugaboo and not my responsibility to fix.
South America has been flipping back and forth for 150 years, and they don’t have any power to influence anything off the continent either way. They’re irrelevant to the spread of global fascism because it was already there and apparently will be there forever. You’re free to care about it, and I’m free to point out that nobody else does.
It actually doesn’t matter why he published them. It isn’t against the law.
Unless there’s evidence he broke the law on the 2016/Russia leaks. Which they haven’t presented.
You fucking insist about this issue when he hasn’t been charged. Scant evidence. Not liking the result is too bad.
Investigative journalism hurts powerful people and helps others.
“It actually doesn’t matter why he published them.”
It does to me.
” It isn’t against the law.”
Yeah, your respect for the law is legendary. When it suits you.
“Investigative journalism hurts powerful people and helps others.”
I don’t know who told you that, but it wasn’t a journalist. Investigations go wherever they lead, and that’s sometimes against the interests you would call “powerless.”
Now explain how publishing Podesta’s emails helped the public.
it helped by pushing the narrative that cut into HRC’s support, thus getting trump elected, this igniting the left wing. Leftists (white hetero ones, anyway) secretly love trump for the fire he is lighting under progressive activism. Of course, it’ll be that fire that writes in Bernie2016 and re-elects 45, but whos counting.
@REV: Here’s a guy making your argument much better than you are. He actually worked at WikiLeaks:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-assange-arrested-journalists-defend/586936/
I still don’t agree with his conclusion that I “must” defend him. No, I mustn’t. Anyone who claims otherwise can, as you would say, lick my Balzac.
” Anyone who claims otherwise can, as you would say, lick my Balzac.”
I lol’ed.
But still… sign up for Moms Demand Action. That’s something we can all agree on.
For the record. I didn’t say you must do anything. I’m saying celebrating his arrest and extradition on the Chelsea Manning leak charges is fucking stupid. Especially for a retired journalist and especially only because of another thing you don’t like or because you personally don’t like the person.
Feel free to entrench. Dig in. It’s a certain mentality I won’t mention. Fight the wrong fights for the wrong reasons. That’s certainly your right to do.
Takes two to tango, Balzac. You keep claiming a celebration that doesn’t exist.
Why should being a retired journalist make me give a flying fuck what happens to Julian Assange? You act as if I think journalism is or ever was a noble profession. It’s exploitation. Public interest, when it happens, is a side effect.
What Devin Nunes is doing is a far greater threat to press freedom than what’s being done to Julian Assange. If you knew anything about journalism you’d understand that. You might also understand that all this “support” people in the press are demanding is raw self-interest, and that there is no form of support that would actually accomplish a goddamn thing.
Your high horse is full of shit.
Hahahaha. OK.
I guess I should qualify it to say journalism in a capitalist society. Obviously a few outlets — CPI, Mother Jones, non-profits like that — that do journalism in the public good for its own sake. The corporate media that was eager to disseminate the Wikileaks war stuff is not among them. That media was mostly eager to disseminate the Podesta stuff, too, showing that the standard I’m using clearly wasn’t widespread. For-profit media almost never has put the public interest first.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1116778545160839168