What percentage of the Dem Primary voters are represented by RE Vanella?
You may know people who are die hard Bernie supporters who will view any rival to Bernie for the nomination as an affront to human decency. I know a few. But how widespread is that disease, and by extension how virulent is it?
Will these people really try to throw the election in the garbage can if they don’t get their way? I doubt it. DL comment section isn’t real life. People who are strident here will not be so strident when you meet face to face, and they will not be so strident when they enter the voting booth and the choice is between some imperfect Dem and Trump.
And trust me the Dem will be imperfect – even if it is ultimately Bernie.
In one of my podcast appearances, hopefully the recorded one, RE said that he would be supporting the Dem nominee no matter who that was. I gather he has gone back on that promise. Oh well. Refusal to support the Dem nominee if the nominee is not Bernie gives other Democrats license to refuse to support Bernie if he is the nominee. So fervent Bernie supporters should rethink that. It is much better for everyone to promise to support the nominee and to follow through on that promise no matter how stomach churning and nose holding they find that notion, because a unified left (including far leftists, socialists, progressives, liberals and left-of-center moderates) beats Trump no matter who the candidate is.
He said the same thing to me and I don’t think he has explicitly gone back on it. I just hate to hear all the vitriol. The 24/7 slagging of everyone not named Bernie is getting on my goddam nerves.
If you can’t find something to like about Buttigeig (sp?) or about a great many announced candidates, you are just being intellectually lazy.
the pretzels you’re willing to twist yourself into to hate Sanders are as fun as the Pretzels RV twists himself into to ignore the traitor president in order to go after every possible dem nominee. The party would be so much healthier with you 2 locked in a room screaming at each other.
RV isnt even a current proven Bernie supporter as far as I can tell. He’s just mad at the world for being what it is.
“the pretzels you’re willing to twist yourself into to hate Sanders are as fun as the Pretzels RV twists himself into to ignore the traitor president”
You have a point. Delaware Dem needs to lay down the burden of hating on Sanders so much.
in fairness, Sanders personally prevented HRC from campaigning in Michigan, Pa, Minnesota and Ohio. It was his fault those states went for 45.
lol. This is no place for sarcasm, Sir.
.
I don’t know any Bernie Or Bust types, suspect much of the hatred comes from trolls, Russian or not, whose main goal is to sow discord in the party. Above all no games in the primary, no repeat of the Wasserman Schultz fiasco that gave credence to a fixed and unfair primary and empowered the Bernie Bots and Bros.
Purists in general are no good for the party. We should view it a coalition. Fascinating article in NY Times last week how the majority of Democrats are NOT progressive and NOT on twitter. I know many of them and the proof was in Carpers 30 points win. Progressives are loud but not as plentiful as we think
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/08/upshot/democratic-electorate-twitter-real-life.html
You are an idiot.
Deep take bro. I will listen to the political experts and Times over some middle aged dude who rants at a computer in Middletown
That’s how I know you are an idiot.
Says the guy who didn’t get one race in the 18 cycle right
What blog are you reading? I got them all right. Except Harris. An Simpler. He was even more terrible than I thought he’d be.
To be fair, he rants at computers wherever they are.
the “virulent disease” that is wanting healthcare to be a right in the richest nation on the planet
No. A lot of Democrats want that. The virulent disease is thinking that only Bernie is pure enough in his desire for it.
What a surprise to learn I’ve gone back on my promise. I had no idea.
Also I’m not “even a current proven Bernie supporter”!
I don’t know what “proof” I’m to provide here. Very strange.
I don’t “ignore” Trump. I think the best political way forward is to make a real case rather than play the game Trump plays.
Really? Is the word “proven” the operative adjective?
I was referring to ben’s comment above. What are you referring to?
“RV isnt even a current proven Bernie supporter as far as I can tell. He’s just mad at the world for being what it is.”
Also, what am I mad about? I have a real problem with McKinsey, said so, and all you guys got very sad. I said it’s a legit beef and provided links. I said it’s as problematic as candidate who was a prosecutor say or a cop or a tobacco lobbyist.
This apparently indicates I’m “mad at the world.”
Im sorry it didn’t go the way you planned.
It was not a strong line of attack. If your criticisms are strong, they will hold up against dickish trolly responses. Mine werent even that good, so better sharpen that blade. The other thing about dumb and pointless, vague charges, is it undercuts real criticisms about his time as mayor pushing gentrification and talking about “all lives matter”. But I guess that’s “identity politics”.
I’m all for some pretty serious scrutiny, because once Bernie and Biden factions eat each other, we’re gonna need a candidate. Harris has been Clinton-ed.. Blamed for shit she didnt do and cast as some evil witch.. with the added insult of hoisting the entirety of the racist CJ system at the feet of a black woman. It’s sad and I hope her time as a Senator will allow her to carve out her own identity. Beto is old N busted already… (still time to run for senate if helping the country is really what he cares about). Warren is, sadly a flop, but once AOC beats Schumer, Majority Leader Warren is something we should all push for.
So let’s scrutinize Mayor Pete. On real fucking things. Not on pointless speculation about things his co-workers might have done. And practice talking each candidate up as well, bc once the general election kicks off, you’re either for whoever stands the best chance of saving the Supreme Court, or you’re a collaborating magat. no other option.
Luckily, you aren’t the arbiter of what’s problematic and what isn’t. It actually went pretty much exactly as I expected. Why would you suspect it didn’t? You make a lot of assumptions. Good news is none of them are accurate. I feel like you just type random words.
if you think AOC will beat chuck in a primary you have no idea how NY State politics work
It’s important too I think to mention Jason’s comment.
“DL comment section isn’t real life. People who are strident here will not be so strident when you meet face to face, and they will not be so strident when they enter the voting booth and the choice is between some imperfect Dem and Trump. ”
I will absolutely be exactly the same to your face. That I can guarantee. However, and I’ve said this over and over and over again, I vote strategically.
“I will absolutely be exactly the same to your face.”
I can vouch for this.
Anyone who thinks REV is being a purist should read the Current Affairs link about Buttigieg he provided. The concerns about him are fairly stated there.
I’m not worried about relitigating 2016. I’m worried about falling for the same spiel Obama gave us in 2008. A young centrist like O’Rourke or Buttigieg might be better than an old centrist like Biden, but not by much.
I think the point of all this is that Democrats as a group, and not just their political candidates, are a bunch of wusses who worry constantly that other people will be frightened away by “radical” proposals that actually have public support.
People love to talk about how we should be more like the GOP in this way or that way. The one way we never try is to support what we believe with full throat. They always do. You will never hear a Republican worry that saying something radical will alienate their supporters, because it never does.
“I’m worried about falling for the same spiel Obama gave us in 2008. A young centrist like O’Rourke or Buttigieg might be better than an old centrist like Biden, but not by much.”
I agree. The problem is, why do people respond to spiels? Like anyone else, I get goosebumps and enjoy them, but I don’t make decisions based on goosebumps. It’s cold hard data to me. I want written policy and position papers. If you make an assertion, give me data. I get that I might be anomaly, but everyone needs to be put more effort into their decision-making than just whoever makes them feel good.
Unfortunately, Trump got elected partially because he talks and acts like his supporters (flying water tankers for Notre Dame Cathedral). Why in God’s name would they want someone who talks and acts like they do? We like it when our leaders have empathy, but who wants them to be one of us. I want them to be better than us.
You guys are groping your way to the truth and it is heartening.
I’ll cut to the chase… Alby’s mostly correct but he sees it on one dimension. Left/Right. Dave is mostly wrong because he sees it on one dimensions. Dry Policy/All Style
The way to view it is plotted on 2 dimensions. The x axis is Left/Right and the Y axis is Dry Policy/All Style.
multi dimensions!
That’s right. Not all voters are as intellectually rigorous in thier choices as DL readers.
Anyway…Obama had it. Maybe he wasn’t your cup of tea on policy, but he had it. Hillary Clinton…not so much.
Hey, I’m not dissin’ style, but it better have some beef between the bun. Too many times you see people who talk a good game but there’s no there there. You want something? Make the case! I may bend towards policy end of the y, but as I said, I’m not immune to goosebumps.
“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me.”
Willard Duncan Vandiver 1899
I’m not from Missouri, but Vandiver’s quote strikes a chord with me.
If only we could remember what, specifically, stopped a lot of Obama’s agenda. Anyone remember if there was like…. more to the government? It’s almost as if there was an attempt to block or…… i feel like obstruct is a noise that works here. Im not sure thought.
And yet he persisted in his Mr. Nice Guy shtick long after it was obvious it wasn’t working.
Failure to adapt to conditions is a fault, not a strength.