DL Open Thread: Thursday, June 27, 2024
Anyone else not gonna watch tonight’s ‘debate’? I’m almost over the denial phase of my grief, headed towards–whatever comes after the denial stage of grief. As much as Biden is to blame for his chutzpah, a moribund national Democratic Party is equally to blame. I mean, not even a discussion as to whether an increasingly-frail man in his eighties should run for reelection? Hey, if you disagree with me, you can always attend that Debate Watch Party being sponsored by the Delaware Democratic Party. Me? Can’t imagine a place I’d less rather be.
Biden and Centrism Summed Up Thusly:
By centrist politics, I mean the styles of figures such as President Biden; French President Emmanuel Macron; Keir Starmer, the British Labour Party’s candidate for prime minister; and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. They are in many ways following in the ideological footsteps of former presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and former British prime minister Tony Blair.
Centrist politicians and parties often defend their adoption of cautious or conservative politics by arguing that this approach is the only way to keep the far right from gaining power. But Obama was succeeded by Donald Trump. Marine Le Pen’s National Rally has gotten much stronger during Macron’s presidency. The class of Republicans that took control of the House two years ago, in the middle of Biden’s presidency, is the most radical, right-wing group to run the chamber in recent times. Biden is tied in polls with Trump, even though the Republican candidate is very unpopular. In the European Union’s parliamentary elections earlier this month, far-right parties did better than even before.
Centrists often win because the other party governs terribly and effectively disqualifies itself. U.S. voters were largely rejecting Trump in the 2018 and 2020 elections. Frustration with the incumbent Conservative Party is the main reason Labour is headed to victory.
But once in office, this centrism fails to create a strong political constituency to keep it in power. This style of politics mainly appeals to people who have liberal views on gay rights and other cultural issues and are doing well financially and therefore are generally comfortable with the status quo (like Bloomberg). Voters who are either more culturally conservative or want politicians to enact meaningful change aren’t satisfied.
So what’s the alternative to centrism? A powerful narrative that voters can connect to. The strength of far-right, nationalist parties is that they are telling a clear, compelling story, even if it’s largely inaccurate. “Our nation was doing well before all of these changes, particularly allowing in immigrants who don’t respect our culture and letting boys be girls and girls be boys. We must return to our roots,” they essentially argue.
Also helps if you don’t run an 80-something incumbent.
Our Soon-To-Be-Future President?:
If you’re undecided:
I know when I’m over-matched. Buh-bye.
What do you want to talk about?
You don’t call for your coach to be fired the morning of your first World Series game.
WTF is this about Biden and centrism? Biden is the most liberal president since LBJ. His policies would be even further left if not blocked by the corrupt courts, or if we had given him a bigger Senate majority.
Gotta agree with Puck. If you can’t see that this administration is to the left of Obama, who was slightly to the left of Clinton, you’re not looking closely enough.
Something people today generally don’t realize: FDR moved slowly on most issues, waiting for public opinion to catch up to reality (Americans will always do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else first).
Another mistake you “Biden sucks” people are making: The lack of enthusiasm pro-Biden is not the problem y’all make it out to be. You think winning requires a cult of personality and enthusiasm for the candidate, but that’s not what motivates the vast majority of voters. Most voters, as Rachel Bitecofer maintains, vote against the party they dislike, not for the party they like.
An important fact that progressives can’t or refuse to process: Our policy prescriptions are not shared by enough people to dominate the Democratic Party, let alone politics at large.
Fox et al have convinced the media that “Biden is old” is the paramount issue in the campaign, and they seem to have convinced you of the same thing. It seems to have clouded your thinking. Anybody who replaced Biden would not face that particular criticism, but they’d surely face their own set of attacks on whatever weakness the slime machine would find or manufacture.
There have been lots of cases of a Democratic president being perceived as weak by members of his own party and challenged in the primaries. It never works out well, and you should be thankful it didn’t happen this year.
Biden has been more pro-labor than any other President in my lifetime. And yet his centrism is the kind that goes out of his way to a drive down enthusiam in the leftward base on issues such as genocide, universal healthcare. and (until very recently) immigration and corporate responsibility.
Like Macron and Starmer, Biden views Democrats to the left of center as suspicious trouble making “extremists”. So in order to maintain their centrism, there is a constant need to create distance with “the radical left”.. Whereas, Republicans view their most right wing members as valuable members of the coalition.
It is a settled political science fact that this dynamic gives Republicans a big advantage in “turn out” elections.
Genocide – Biden has been tried and convicted of genocide only by the fringe anti-Israel left. Pandering to that faction is a good way to lose the election.
Also – once again – not every horrific war is a genocide. Overstating the case on Israel is a great way to alienate Democrats, or even get one’s butt kicked in a primary.
Universal Healthcare – Another WTF. Congress is gridlocked and Biden has done as much as possible via executive actions. I haven’t heard of anyone blaming Biden for not implementing universal healthcare – but if they do, well you can’t fix stupid.
“Biden views Democrats to the left of center as suspicious trouble making “extremists”
Some of them are. Especially the ones saying he is genocidal and should be replaced.
In any case, Biden is good at building support and counting votes. I don’t see Biden kicking Democrats out of his coalition.
Immigration – What exactly does the “left” expect? Unfortunately Republicans have won the public debate on immigration (for the moment). Ignoring this fact is a good way to lose the election. Biden knows this and pivoted by getting behind a restrictive immigration bill (blocked by Trumpublicans) and then by executive restrictions.
Ok. I think we agree that Republicans have unlocked the secret for keeping the base engaged and Democrats have not.
Also, I get that Republicans have the advantage in that endeavor because they lie with abandon. Nevertheless, it is obvious to me (and perhaps to you) that to break the policy deadlocks you mentioned, Democrats have to think beyond the centrist strategy of trying to win every election with 49.02% of the vote. It is just not sustainable.
I think it’s easy to mistake pragmatism for centrism. Pragmatism settles for half a loaf. Centrism only wants to bake half a loaf and so has to settle for even less.
and tomorrow on various news media outlets some will be saying Biden won the debate and others will say trump did. it really doesnt matter as we are now in the reality president stage of our country falling apart.
Joe’s the candidate and we know Joe.
2 polls today put trump ahead by slight margins. People are not yet in the game.
Joe is old. But people are not yet admitting/accepting that Biden/djt are the only choices they will get. June is still time for wishful thinking. Younger, handsomer, more energetic are all siren songs in 2024. I’m happily accepting wiser…
If Biden were a centrist Democrat like Clinton (X2) or Obama I’d be worried. Democrats figured out in 2016 that they didn’t want a another corporatist Democrat and I don’t blame them. But Biden has gone out of his way to reestablish union ties and support, to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. Add to that the insanity of GOP abortion/contraception policy with the corruption of the GOP SCOTUS and Dems should win both the congress and the white house. Compared to women’s health care, immigration/border security is a non-issue.
Trump has been convicted, yet he has something like a 4-point lead nationwide.
If you don’t think that the fact that Biden is old and pretty enfeebled has something to do with it, I don’t know what to tell you.
Bottom line: He shouldn’t have run for reelection. We’re stuck with him and I’ll support him. But he was pretty much the only guy the D’s could have put up who would be in the position. I was raising this point a year ago, was told not to piss in my jeans.
I didn’t…then.