Serious Question/Topic of the Day
I get unemployment benefits I really do. I also get that in this global economy jobs that many had aren’t coming back. Which means that while people are on benefits they need to utilize that time and money to “retool” so to speak. Sure, WAY easier said than done. Laughably I can’t even believe I wrote that. I have been on u/e and it sucked. I was lucky my spouse worked and with the u/e and her income we scraped by and our credit card debt increased. We are now in the process of paying it down, but of course the obvious car repairs came into play as well as a broken skylight and other household repairs not on the radar. I didn’t retool at all. I took care of my newborn son and read a lot. I massaged my resume and learned how to interview and tell an employer I can learn and do anything you throw at me. That won’t work for the several millions of u/e people in this country. It barely worked for me.
But, my question/thought is I get when people say there shouldn’t be unemployment benefits. Yes, the Malkins of the world are horrible human beings that view out of work people like they do a pimple. their xenophobia is horrible for our country and does nothing to force the adult discussions we need to have in this country.
So I have multiple questions. I have so much time to drive to work now that my head thinks of this stuff. Not good, I know.
If unemployment benefits were extended for a specific dollar amount and specific number of weeks wouldn’t our economy recover faster from a recession?
If unemployment benefits were extended for a specific dollar amount and specific number of weeks wouldn’t more people take those jobs that supposedly only illegals will do? People will eventually suck up their pride and find ways to provide for their family and themselves when they have too. (maslow’s hierarchy of need comes to mind here)
If unemployment benefits were extended for a specific dollar amount and specific number of weeks wouldn’t our economy fall back to a normal healthy balance?
Also, by penalizing people so much for not paying their bills haven’t we made it impossible for people to start over? Usery is a real problem in this country and the people that fall from one social status to the other have a real challenge climbing back up with the predators allowed to exploit them.
It seems to me that part of the problem is the safety net we have created has extended to corporate welfare and now the banks can’t let the economy settle back to a normal sustainable level. The mess created by personal credit has inflated housing and car prices, income levels and the cost of everything to the point it takes 2 incomes to support a barely middle class lifestyle. the banks and who ever else need tax credits to get us to spend money. they need tax breaks to give to charity. they need subsidies to grow food we want to eat.
I don’t have all the answers and this is just some out loud thinking. but I would like to see some discussion today regarding this line of thinking.
We need a hard crash and a lot of people have to lose a lot of money (by that I mean uber rich and corporations) If you think about what the average costs are of owning a home and car and then use the avg income for american citizens the numbers are hardly in line. It isn’t sustainable.
What we are doing right now, Obama included, is just fucking ourselves in the future. We can’t press the reset button, but we can’t sustain our country this way. Nothing has changed in the past 2 years. No price changes anywhere and job losses are still growing.
I know I’m all over the place but humor me 🙂
wow, it’s rare that a liberal admits he wants to destroy our country (“We need a hard crash”) so he can build a new system where he will do better. Even rarer that a liberal complains that Obama isn’t destroying the country fast enough.
we appreciate this rare burst of honesty.
It’s only Republicans that hope for America to fail.
even rarer that you don’t support free markets
Dude I am with you! I’ve been laid off since the end of July and fortunately I get the max on unemployment benefits which equals to 35% of my total income when employed. I am 55 and the last time I collected unemployment was when I was 18 working a season construction job in concrete, was laid off two months.
Many years ago I dumped the Visa/ Master Card and went with AMX pay as you go. The car I drive is 1994 and we bought used in 1995 so that 14 years. My wife’s car of 13 years was replaced last year with a new Ford Fusion and gas $$ saving from not driving her Jeep Cherokee helps pay for it. But we were heartbroken to be forced to buy a new car.
Last fall my pay was cut 10% and down to 4 days a week. I couldn’t sit that one day a week and found so day-labor work. The warning shot was fired and I knew it was only a matter of time I would be laid off. Other employee went before me and I was only at this job two years. The job I left after 28 years because I was pissed ended up laying people off and I would have most likely would have been laid off from there.
I wasn’t mad at the employer who laid me off but mad because I could stay that day to organize my desk for the persons who would share my old duties.
Being on unemployment makes you feel like second-class even around the house. However, I do have a new found appreciation for the hard work housewives do.
What hurts is, I am 55 and not real marketable due to younger competition that will start at entry pay when jobs return. I do feel cheated because I worked all my life and worked hard to advance within the ranks and what I did was respected by my peers throughout the country. Nothing was handed to me and I had the ambition and the ability to set goal. Somehow I’ll dig deep to do the same in another field.
I don’t and can’t blame Obama for being laid off but I do feel folks my age will be abandon by the recovery efforts. So far his stimulus only saved jobs in local, state, federal government, bailed out Wall Street and set a reckless course to spend billions of dollars more in public education where 20% will be skimmed off the top for administrative cost. We won’t see new schools other than charters as part of the agenda and public school will still have large class sizes and poor student will still get screwed.
Healthcare for me is gone! It will cost $600.00 a month to get me on my wife’s employers. Our household budget is tighter than a bug ass and there are times I reach for a soda at the gas station only to put it back. Down to basic cable, no eating out, cheap frozen pizza instead of take out. Even the dog is on budget re: treats. I had zero credit card debt until being laid off and wouldn’t you know it the hot water heater went. So there is $1000.00 on Homedepot card luckily no payment / interest for a year. But I’ll get it paid off to avoid interest. Then the stove goes re: oven. “I” replaced part igniter two years ago and it went again but this time couldn’t fix without worry about blowing the house up. So another Homedepot purchase $600.00 coming this Saturday. Again no payment / interest for a year.
What sucks is, my wife and I worked all these years and maintain a decent middle-class lifestyle with about 10% disposable income going back into the economy above our real needs. Some of my right-winger friend feel TFB sell your house because your healthcare come first because we have enough freeloaders on the system.
You and I worked our asses off all these years taking care of welfare recipients, illegal immigrants, housing and caring criminals, paying out the ass for our elected officials lifestyles and healthcare for every government employees including my favorite people teacher public and charter healthcare. My reward is too fucking bad for you!
I’ll survive and hopefully not like many who lose their house and family.
You do know Obama’s stimulus kicked in an additional 25.00 week unemployment but how fucked up, it’s subject to federal income tax!
I have money in a 401K (what’s left of it after Bush fucked me) but if I take it out I’ll pay a federal penalty tax.
However, at the end of the day you have your family and your kid’s needs are taking care of, you’re a lucky man. But it sucks!
Comment by Unstable Isotope
“It’s only Republicans that hope for America to fail.”
Get it right, only far right Republicans 🙂 now you promise not to bitch when you’ll have federal taxes taken out on you employer heathcare? Obama comes with a price tag that has to be paid!
Kilroy, EVERYTHING comes with a price tag that has to be paid.
I understand your situation, and we’re exactly the same age. We did everything we were “supposed to” do, and we’re completely screwed.
But we weren’t exactly screwed by the illegals, the immigrants, the disabled and the federal workers: we were screwed by consecutive congresses that gave away our jobs, made building factories more appealing in foreign countries, allowed for hiding of corporate and vast personal assets overseas, allowed the uber-rich to pass along money with a small tax, allowed our hospitals and health insurers to become pubicly traded companies, and so on.
We were told over and over again that this free market would be “good for” all of us. We were told about trickle-down economics.
We got the trickle, as it were.
As for the topic, DV — yes, the system is rigged so that you can’t recover. That is one of the biggest current problems, one that will last for years…right into my retirement and Kilroy’s.
You can’t retool for jobs that don’t exist. The unemployment rate for our youngest full-time employees, the 19-25 years olds, is at about 50%. They just got “tooled”, they demand the lowest salaries, and they still can’t get work.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think it’s in the rather piecemeal approach that the administration and the congress are using.
thanks Kilroy, I feel your pain. It’s a constant battle to keep your head above water. You try your entire life and one little thing fucks you over.
I’ve always said even a monkey knows when it is getting fucked over. It doesn’t take an economist to know what we have isn’t working and what we are doing isn’t fixing shit. It is just keeping the money at the top and protecting their interests.
Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan…the income and weatlth will continue to trend up under them.
good luck brother
For all the talk we do about the fighting spirit of Americans we invest very little into people – supposedly the backbone of our country and what makes us so unique and great. It’s an empty slogan, just like “It’s for the kids” or “Think of the children.”
“Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don’t realize until later that it’s because it fucked you.”
http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/4106388421
Comment by Progressive Mom
“I don’t know what the answer is, but I don’t think it’s in the rather piecemeal approach that the administration and the congress are using.”
The re-birth of America’s economy won’t include midde-age laid off worked. We get the jobs being door greeters at Walmart. I make too much on Unemployment to qualify for Medicaid so srew me and when I find a job I’ll be subject to preexisting re: BP.
Comment by Donviti :
“thanks Kilroy, I feel your pain. It’s a constant battle to keep your head above water. You try your entire life and one little thing fucks you over.”
For me, I did my best my kids 37, 33, 32 & 23 and must find their own way. My fucking job is done and my only wish is to see baby Kilroy 23 get through college after that fuck it! I us to me worth more alive but not more dead!
The crazy shit I do re: Blog and education stuff is part of the mission in life that was handed to me. It’s not a hobby , it’s a responsbility. Someone has to be the black knight and not kiss the ass system. So, I’ll take the label of being counter-productive for the sake of social justice. Could be the fact I was born in 1954 and witness all the shit in awakening of the American conscious. To think we bought that duck and cover shit during the air raid drill of the early 60’s. The spirit of Kent State lives within many of use and no concept for others. Sex, drug and rocking roll didn’t kill me and to this day I ask God why did you spare and what do you want. I only have half the ansewer and have trouble with these test /road blocks he keeps putting in my way.
“Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan…the income and weatlth will continue to trend up under them.”
Sorry to say I don’t think Obama is our savior ( I voted for him) I think he is the messenger to let us know there is no saviors in politics.
Joe Biden doesn’t know shit about the kitchen table. He will be remembered forever for bieng the vice president of the first black president. The rest of Biden’s life is a cake walk!
Someone has to be the black knight
here I always thought you were white too! shhheeeet!
the great thing about learning Obama isn’t the savior is an entire Generation will now actually start holding people accountable and then maybe some real change will happen. People may actually learn to not believe the hype and get caught up in it
LMFFAO! i ACTUALLY WAS GOING TO BELIEVE all that crap I just wrote above here! I had to stop writing when I realized what I was saying.
woooooooowheeeeee!!!
DV,
If we want change, we’re going to have to bring it about ourselves. I think the worst feature of the left (IMO) is that we lack the drive and passion of the right. It doesn’t matter how many times they get defeated, they keep on coming. They also hold their politicians accountable. It seems like on the left, we work to get someone elected and then start attacking them almost immediately.
Looked at as a process problem (because otherwise the pain of a lot of people will make me stop thinking) here’s why we don’t make real structural change:
On health care President Obama personally prefers single-payer but can’t even start from that point and give it away because the overal system is so invested in government-corporate incest. So the guy with literally the most political capital to spend in a decade doesn’t even have the capital to get his own preferred option on the table. Even if the far right is correct and the current proposal is a blind to move toward single-payer it is a turn that will take 20 years to make because the system has so much inertia and so many barnacles.
In a sense, we’ve built the Titanic and then sailed into iceberg-infested waters because Pfizer and Goldmann Sachs thought it would be a nice, scenic trip.
That’s why dv is instinctively talking about a crash: something big enough that the current vested interests cannot stop it, and which will result in real systemic change. Yes, such a crash would hurt millions of people, and very badly. But many of them are getting bled to death slowly every day right now.
This is, I think, a no-win situation for everyone from progressives to libertarians, because either real managerial capitalism or real if regulated free markets have become equal pipedreams.
By the way dv I also have that hour drive to work to think up this shit.
“I have money in a 401K (what’s left of it after Bush fucked me) but if I take it out I’ll pay a federal penalty tax.”
Withdrawals from 401(k) plans for those who are at least age 55 and are separated from service are exceptions (#1 for Form 5329) to the 10% withdrawal penalty.
Withdrawals from an IRA that is used to pay for health insurance premiums for certain unemployed individuals are exceptions (#7) to the 10% penalty.
Withdrawals from an IRA to pay tuition for your child are exceptions (#8).
Comment by Donviti
“Someone has to be the black knight
here I always thought you were white too! shhheeeet!”
LOL! Vieni su Sono Italain. Si dovrebbe sapere di me dalla vecchia 5 e Lincoln e danze St. E’s. Ricorda che il tempo a pista di roller Elsmere? 🙂 Posso usare per eseguire commissioni per Fusco
I absolutely agree Steve. The Great Recession is terrible and has caused a lot of pain but I don’t think it was long or painful enough to cause a big change in behavior. I’m not even sure we have enough momentum to get even modest regulations passed now.
America has turned into a can’t do nation. It’s very depressing.
Kilroy for Senator!
Vieni su Sono Italain. Si dovrebbe sapere di me dalla vecchia 5 e Lincoln e danze St. E’s. Ricorda che il tempo a pista di roller Elsmere? Posso usare per eseguire commissioni per Fusco
wait what?
5th and Lincoln? Are you Mexican then?
Ahhhhhhhh I kill me!
Comment by Unstable Isotope
“I’m not even sure we have enough momentum to get even modest regulations passed now.”
Modest ???? Don’t you think we need to get it right?
??? how do you feel about your employer XXXXX provided heathcare plan being subjected to federal witholding tax??
Comment by Tom S
“Kilroy for Senator!”
1 vote thank you
wait? did you serve me water ice from Fusco’s?
Of course I think we need to get it right. My point is I don’t even think that we can get regulations that are mostly just for show passed.
I would vote for Kilroy over Castle, that’s for sure.
no kidding on that
Comment by Donviti
“wait? did you serve me water ice from Fusco’s?”
Non va bene a comunicare in inglese, perché boss può essere offeso! Forse ho fatto collezioni. Sapete come se qualcuno avesse il numero sbagliato, ma non paga. Sono molto bravi a fare le scarpe di cemento! Ridere!
Unstable Isotope
“My point is I don’t even think that we can get regulations that are mostly just for show passed.”
But what about this question
??? how do you feel about your employer XXXXX provided heathcare plan being subjected to federal witholding tax??
“I would vote for Kilroy over Castle, that’s for sure.”
Trying to bribe me with a vote ? Just ansewer the question above 🙂 🙂 🙂
Comment by Kilroy
“Are you Mexican then?”
I am Irish like you! My mother’s maiden name started with DiV.
I don’t like the health care plan tax at all, but the conservaDems had to protect the millionaires.
I believe my employer responded by significantly shitifying my insurance plan. I’m hoping that Congress will consider the Wyden amendment which will allow people to leave their employer-based plans in participate either in the exchange or the public option.
Unstable Isotope
“but the conservaDems had to protect the millionaires.”
So Obama isn’t on the Liberal team ?
No, Obama is not a liberal. Obama is a pragmatic centrist. He’s also not a legislator. The conservaDems are people like Blanche Lincoln, Evan Bayh, Tom Carper and Max Baucus. The so-called moderates who are really corporate Dems. We have a ridiculous system in which we need 60 votes to go through the Senate. That means we need the support of the corporate Dems along with the liberal Dems. The employer tax was McCain’s idea, picked up by Baucus. Obama actually proposed a tax on top earners.
Kilroy still thinks that Bill Ayers is sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom.
“Kilroy still thinks that Bill Ayers is sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom.”
Yea I heard he had a good night’s rest after finding one of Chip Carter joints stuffed in an empty can of Billy Beer under the bed.:)
Comment by Unstable Isotope
“No, Obama is not a liberal. Obama is a pragmatic centrist.”
I see another Bush 🙂
“Obama actually proposed a tax on top earners.”
But he’ll have no problem signing the bill scewing all of us
Like I said, he’s not a legislator.
Bush was not a pragmatic centrist. He was a movement conservative.
“He was a movement conservative”
“Obama is a pragmatic centrist.”
OK you win, LOL
But can we agree Bill Clinton was a male whore?